What Is Harassment?

[Lio]

Who is trying to denigrate women's feelings just in order to win an argument? Where is that happening?

For the record, I've asked similar questions a number of times, such as, "Who in the thread is advocating the type of behavior in the video?". No one ever seems to answer.

I can’t speak for Alfie, of course, but I’ll give you my point of view.

The women in this thread have given an account of personal experiences only to be called men bashers. While we’re not. That in itself is denigrating, because reducing women to mere men bashers would mean they just attack men because they are men and all men are evil, thus shifting the problem to the female men bashers, not to male harassers ( = not all men). It’s even been taken into another thread that had absolutely nothing to do with men or harassing.

People were accused of just liking posts of their internet friends. As if not the subject, but the poster mattered. It’s a sensitive and important issue for a lot of people, I think we can all agree on that, and then accusing people of just adapting their opinions (or likes if you want) to their internet friends, is denigrating.

It was said that the women that were harassed (or not, just keeping it simple and calling it harassed) should be able to detach themselves from that, not be influenced by that. So it’s not the men who should adapt their behaviour, is the women that should.

I read the women were stuck up bitches.

It was said that if it was a goodlooking guy, the women would have no problems with that at all. Again, just blaming women again, they’re just being mean to ugly guys.

People gave their honest opinion and tried to relay how it felt to be harassed time and time again, and their posts were swept off the table and put to shame apparently. I personally found that denigrating too.

There might be other things, but this is what I can come up with now. In general, I think it’s a very sensitive subject and close to heart to a lot of posters, and it’s only normal you’re disappointed when there’s such a lack of empathy.

[magisme]

I don't know. I'll think about this and maybe respond later, but it feels more and more like I'm not really allowed to even have an opinion on the subject, unless I agree with the majority of the women in the thread of course, so I might just bow out.

I'm not trying to equate the two, but as much as you want us to think about the issue from your perspective, perhaps try to think about what it's like to be thought of as a harasser and a threat when you're just trying to be friendly? Empathy goes both ways. And I'm not talking about "nice ass" comments. I really do wish you guys would stop pretending anyone in here is saying that stuff is good. No one is saying that.

[Lio]

I don't know. I'll think about this and maybe respond later, but it feels more and more like I'm not really allowed to even have an opinion on the subject, unless I agree with the majority of the women in the thread of course, so I might just bow out.

I'm not trying to equate the two, but as much as you want us to think about the issue from your perspective, perhaps try to think about what it's like to be thought of as a harasser and a threat when you're just trying to be friendly? Empathy goes both ways. And I'm not talking about "nice ass" comments. I really do wish you guys would stop pretending anyone in here is saying that stuff is good. No one is saying that.

Of course you're allowed an opinion.

And I think it has been said before that of course not all men are harassers and a threat and it's sad that the good have to pay the price for the bad. That's been said in this thread. And I get that it sucks if you have the feeling of being lumped together with the 'bad guys'. I don't think that was anyone's intention. I know you don't think 'nice ass' is good, I'm not pretending that you do. I think we all agree on that being not acceptable.

It's just about trying to bring a feeling across. It's not about agreeing. It's about the reaction of some posters to the feelings that women in this thread have shared, and being denigrating about that.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

[SoulMonster]

[...] perhaps try to think about what it's like to be thought of as a harasser and a threat when you're just trying to be friendly? Empathy goes both ways.

You are right. Empathy goes both ways. But if women find your comments/approach threathening then my empathy clearly lies with them and not with your insulted sensibility. Not that I aren't sympathetic. I am very sympathetic. It must be hell to be that misunderstood. Not just as bad as actually feeling physical unsafe. I hope you see the difference.

As for "hello" and similar non-sexual comments being harassment or threathening, I doubt they are in most cases. It is the additive effect of numerous such encounters in certain contexts and where it is obvious that they are not gender-unbiased (meaning that men "target" women), which might be felt as threatening and harassing. Or have someone said otherwise?

[alfierose]

I don't know. I'll think about this and maybe respond later, but it feels more and more like I'm not really allowed to even have an opinion on the subject, unless I agree with the majority of the women in the thread of course, so I might just bow out.

I'm not trying to equate the two, but as much as you want us to think about the issue from your perspective, perhaps try to think about what it's like to be thought of as a harasser and a threat when you're just trying to be friendly? Empathy goes both ways. And I'm not talking about "nice ass" comments. I really do wish you guys would stop pretending anyone in here is saying that stuff is good. No one is saying that.

Of course you're allowed an opinion.

And I think it has been said before that of course not all men are harassers and a threat and it's sad that the good have to pay the price for the bad. That's been said in this thread. And I get that it sucks if you have the feeling of being lumped together with the 'bad guys'. I don't think that was anyone's intention. I know you don't think 'nice ass' is good, I'm not pretending that you do. I think we all agree on that being not acceptable.

It's just about trying to bring a feeling across. It's not about agreeing. It's about the reaction of some posters to the feelings that women in this thread have shared, and being denigrating about that.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

I do empathise with not wanting to be lumped together, we all have men/boys in our lives that we love. This is why for me these arguments are about societal and cultural values not attacks on the individual men on this forum whom none of us know personally. There is no denying though that men as a class are pretty dangerous, to women, children, animals AND to other men. It suck, for us and for you too who probably consider yourself to be with the majority of men who are basically decent human beings. It doesn't minimise the fear factor though as the truly dangerous men walk among us just like everyone else, sometimes it's obvious a lot of the time it's not until it's too late.

You picked a really emotive topic to start a thread on and perhaps you didn't realise how much, sharing some of my experiences (not all of them by a long shot) has surprised me in how much strong emotion it has raked up, I expect other women here feel the same. So in participating in this thread I have given a bit of myself emotionally, I have not just been arguing hypothetical situations. Yet you seem to just want us to back down on our stance. Yes, approaching someone in the street or making an innocuous remark isn't a crime but as SoulMonster said it's an accumulative effect and for me personally I just want to go about my day, meet with friends, hang out in a coffee shop, sit in a park without intrusion.

If you approach a girl and it goes badly the chances are your feelings might be hurt if I respond to a guy and it goes badly the consequences are potentially a lot more serious. This is why it matters to me.

[Len Cnut]

I don't know. I'll think about this and maybe respond later, but it feels more and more like I'm not really allowed to even have an opinion on the subject, unless I agree with the majority of the women in the thread of course, so I might just bow out.

I'm not trying to equate the two, but as much as you want us to think about the issue from your perspective, perhaps try to think about what it's like to be thought of as a harasser and a threat when you're just trying to be friendly? Empathy goes both ways. And I'm not talking about "nice ass" comments. I really do wish you guys would stop pretending anyone in here is saying that stuff is good. No one is saying that.

lets describe a certain female. A female with the disease of character and attitude. If you will, a snob. However, in the view of Magisme...

[netcat]

i dont understand how is it threatening when someone tells you (or shows you non-verbally) that he thinks you're attractive? what are the chances that he will attack you on the street in a broad daylight?

i think women's perception of unasked attention depends on a lot of factors, like, who flirts with you, how he does it etc. personally it mostly depends on my mood, like, sometimes it's entertaining, sometimes it's irritating, generally those things are like the weather, everyone talks about it but nobody does anything about it

It was said that if it was a goodlooking guy, the women would have no problems with that at all. Again, just blaming women again, they’re just being mean to ugly guys.

that's funny cause men mostly don't even bother harassing ugly women

[Len Cnut]

i dont understand how is it threatening when someone tells you (or shows you non-verbally) that he thinks you're attractive? what are the chances that he will attack you on the street in a broad daylight?

i think women's perception of unasked attention depends on a lot of factors, like, who flirts with you, how he does it etc. personally it mostly depends on my mood, like, sometimes it's entertaining, sometimes it's irritating, generally those things are like the weather, everyone talks about it but nobody does anything about it

It was said that if it was a goodlooking guy, the women would have no problems with that at all. Again, just blaming women again, theyre just being mean to ugly guys.

that's funny cause men mostly don't even bother harassing ugly women

You'd be suprised yknow, the amount of men that harass munters, which sheds an interesting light on the concept i think, kinda like how some people consider rapists just like, desperate fuckers who couldnt get none when its more a case of a certain kinda guy gets off on gettin' theirs by force, in the same way harassers enjoy agitating and making women feel uncomfortable.

[netcat]

agreed, but i wasn't talking about real harassment, i meant things like "hello, beautiful" and other cases of stupid street flirting. which are the subject of the thread as far as i'm concerned

[magisme]

I don't know. I'll think about this and maybe respond later, but it feels more and more like I'm not really allowed to even have an opinion on the subject, unless I agree with the majority of the women in the thread of course, so I might just bow out.

I'm not trying to equate the two, but as much as you want us to think about the issue from your perspective, perhaps try to think about what it's like to be thought of as a harasser and a threat when you're just trying to be friendly? Empathy goes both ways. And I'm not talking about "nice ass" comments. I really do wish you guys would stop pretending anyone in here is saying that stuff is good. No one is saying that.

Of course you're allowed an opinion.

And I think it has been said before that of course not all men are harassers and a threat and it's sad that the good have to pay the price for the bad. That's been said in this thread. And I get that it sucks if you have the feeling of being lumped together with the 'bad guys'. I don't think that was anyone's intention. I know you don't think 'nice ass' is good, I'm not pretending that you do. I think we all agree on that being not acceptable.

It's just about trying to bring a feeling across. It's not about agreeing. It's about the reaction of some posters to the feelings that women in this thread have shared, and being denigrating about that.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

I do empathise with not wanting to be lumped together, we all have men/boys in our lives that we love. This is why for me these arguments are about societal and cultural values not attacks on the individual men on this forum whom none of us know personally. There is no denying though that men as a class are pretty dangerous, to women, children, animals AND to other men. It suck, for us and for you too who probably consider yourself to be with the majority of men who are basically decent human beings. It doesn't minimise the fear factor though as the truly dangerous men walk among us just like everyone else, sometimes it's obvious a lot of the time it's not until it's too late.

You picked a really emotive topic to start a thread on and perhaps you didn't realise how much, sharing some of my experiences (not all of them by a long shot) has surprised me in how much strong emotion it has raked up, I expect other women here feel the same. So in participating in this thread I have given a bit of myself emotionally, I have not just been arguing hypothetical situations. Yet you seem to just want us to back down on our stance. Yes, approaching someone in the street or making an innocuous remark isn't a crime but as SoulMonster said it's an accumulative effect and for me personally I just want to go about my day, meet with friends, hang out in a coffee shop, sit in a park without intrusion.

If you approach a girl and it goes badly the chances are your feelings might be hurt if I respond to a guy and it goes badly the consequences are potentially a lot more serious. This is why it matters to me.

Why would I want you to back down from your stance? And where have I insisted that you back down from your stance? I disagree with you about some of the particulars of how we should address this as a society. I respect your experience. I empathize, while at the same time knowing I can never really empathize. I really don't know what you want me to say.

"There is no denying that men as a class are pretty dangerous." That doesn't sit well with me.

[The Glow Inc.]

It was said that the women that were harassed (or not, just keeping it simple and calling it harassed) should be able to detach themselves from that, not be influenced by that. So it’s not the men who should adapt their behaviour, is the women that should.

You missed the point of my post...

In life you have two choices regarding other people's attitude.

1) You can get defensive and try to make them change ( "you shouldn't make me feel this way" ). Good luck with that, because people never change or rather, they do when it's too late and the damage is already done.

2) You can take responsibility for your emotions and detach from what other people do, say or think, which is way more constructive as you feel empowered.

So yeah, while men "should" change, women "could" empower themselves by saying "fuck it, I choose how I feel, no matter what".

Or you can hope for a law that won't solve shit, like everyone else on every matter there is.

[alfierose]

Doesn't sit well with me either. I wish is wasn't so. Are you denying that men as a class represent the most threat to more vulnerable groups? That's all I was saying.

I don't think I have much further to say, I feel what I feel and so do you. Nothing more is being gained at this point from either perspective.

[Apollo]

The reason this thread has become retarded is because a handful of people posting here just want to 'win' the argument. The majority of women in this thread have just shared their honest and sometimes upsetting feelings and experiences of what it is like to be a female and dealing with male attention. The fact that some posters are seeking to denigrate those very real feelings just so they can be 'right' on an Internet forum speaks volumes.

On the plus side a number of posters have surprised me with their thoughtful and empathic posts.

There is some truth to your comment.

But you - and a couple of the other more vocal females - are doing the exact same thing that you are complaining about.

If a male shares their opinion and it isn't 100% in line with what yours is - YOU and a couple others aren't willing to talk or work through it with them. MB is crying because I said there are a few people who are doing the normal "friendship likes" that you see in every topic. Seriously? That's the issue here now?

I've asked in several different posts for suggestions of what we all can do (men and women) to help put a stop to this kind of behavior. You guys keep ignoring that and just want to keep bashing the men who are posting. Why is that? Why aren't you guys trying to help us all come up with a solution? Why isn't that more important than just telling us how harassed you are and how unfair it is?

We get it.

Some men are creeps.

Women get harassed. It's horrible. I wish it would all stop.

If I had a magic wand I'd wave it and make everybody perfect humans and ensure that everybody lived perfect lives.

You want all the evil men to NOT have an opinion and just give you sympathy and agree that we are all evil pigs. But you aren't willing to listen or give other people's opinions respect. You made a negative reference to what my FEMALE wife's experience and attitude was regarding this. Her opinion isn't as valid as yours? Why, because she doesn't agree with you?

In another post you said that women should NOT have to make any compromises. WTF?

People make compromises all the time in life. Life isn't perfect and it isn't fair.

Everybody goes through situations in life that aren't fair.

I quit a job because I had a terrible boss. Was that fair? No. Should I have to quit a good job because one person is a jerk? No. I got tired of getting harassed and going home stressed out every night - so I LEFT.

I got ripped off by a car mechanic. Actually hired a lawyer. But in the end it would have cost me more to fight it than to take him to small claims court. So I dropped it. I got screwed by a criminal. Was that fair? Nope.

I actually sold a house and moved to a new neighborhood because the two houses beside me had annoying dogs that barked all the time. I got tired of it. So I moved. Was it fair? No. Should I have to move because of inconsiderate neighbors? No.

Hell, I got mugged one time. There is a situation where you fear for your life. Guy got about $20, about 200 CDs and a bag of groceries I just purchased. Was that fair? Should I be able to shop at the store without fearing being robbed? Of course. But that isn't how life works. So I stopped going to that area if it was dark out.

Sometimes finding a solution is perfectly OK.

I could continue going to that store and continue getting robbed all the time. Because DAMMIT, I should be able to go to any store I want.

OR........I could just go to the store that's two blocks down the street in a safe neighborhood and never get mugged again.

Seriously, if you guys are getting sexually harassed at such a high rate, and are in constant fear of being raped - why in the world would you continue to put yourself in that environment?

That's not letting the rapists win and making you lose.

That's saving you for from apparently years and years of being sexually harassed and it's preventing you from getting raped. I'd say you win in that scenario. Take control and make the situation better.

Some of you aren't even arguing the actual situation in the video anymore.

It was said that the women that were harassed (or not, just keeping it simple and calling it harassed) should be able to detach themselves from that, not be influenced by that. So it’s not the men who should adapt their behaviour, is the women that should.

So yeah, while men "should" change, women "could" empower themselves by saying "fuck it, I choose how I feel, no matter what".

Exactly. Great post.

Isn't it fascinating how some of the females on here are downgrading another female's perspective simply because she doesn't agree with theirs? Or because she chooses to not play the victim role?

My wife choosing to be in control of her own situation and not letting others dictate how she feels...........lol, some of the ladies in here are bashing that mindset. Think about that.

Being a strong willed person is now looked down upon.

DONT take control of your life and situations. Don't let other people have power and influence over you. SMH - only on this forum would people say that's a bad thing.

[Lio]

The reason this thread has become retarded is because a handful of people posting here just want to 'win' the argument. The majority of women in this thread have just shared their honest and sometimes upsetting feelings and experiences of what it is like to be a female and dealing with male attention. The fact that some posters are seeking to denigrate those very real feelings just so they can be 'right' on an Internet forum speaks volumes.

On the plus side a number of posters have surprised me with their thoughtful and empathic posts.

There is some truth to your comment.

But you - and a couple of the other more vocal females - are doing the exact same thing that you are complaining about.

If a male shares their opinion and it isn't 100% in line with what yours is - YOU and a couple others aren't willing to talk or work through it with them. MB is crying because I said there are a few people who are doing the normal "friendship likes" that you see in every topic. Seriously? That's the issue here now?

I've asked in several different posts for suggestions of what we all can do (men and women) to help put a stop to this kind of behavior. You guys keep ignoring that and just want to keep bashing the men who are posting. Why is that? Why aren't you guys trying to help us all come up with a solution? Why isn't that more important than just telling us how harassed you are and how unfair it is?

We get it.

Some men are creeps.

Women get harassed. It's horrible. I wish it would all stop.

If I had a magic wand I'd wave it and make everybody perfect humans and ensure that everybody lived perfect lives.

You want all the evil men to NOT have an opinion and just give you sympathy and agree that we are all evil pigs. But you aren't willing to listen or give other people's opinions respect. You made a negative reference to what my FEMALE wife's experience and attitude was regarding this. Her opinion isn't as valid as yours? Why, because she doesn't agree with you?

In another post you said that women should NOT have to make any compromises. WTF?

People make compromises all the time in life. Life isn't perfect and it isn't fair.

Everybody goes through situations in life that aren't fair.

I quit a job because I had a terrible boss. Was that fair? No. Should I have to quit a good job because one person is a jerk? No. I got tired of getting harassed and going home stressed out every night - so I LEFT.

I got ripped off by a car mechanic. Actually hired a lawyer. But in the end it would have cost me more to fight it than to take him to small claims court. So I dropped it. I got screwed by a criminal. Was that fair? Nope.

I actually sold a house and moved to a new neighborhood because the two houses beside me had annoying dogs that barked all the time. I got tired of it. So I moved. Was it fair? No. Should I have to move because of inconsiderate neighbors? No.

Hell, I got mugged one time. There is a situation where you fear for your life. Guy got about $20, about 200 CDs and a bag of groceries I just purchased. Was that fair? Should I be able to shop at the store without fearing being robbed? Of course. But that isn't how life works. So I stopped going to that area if it was dark out.

Sometimes finding a solution is perfectly OK.

I could continue going to that store and continue getting robbed all the time. Because DAMMIT, I should be able to go to any store I want.

OR........I could just go to the store that's two blocks down the street in a safe neighborhood and never get mugged again.

Seriously, if you guys are getting sexually harassed at such a high rate, and are in constant fear of being raped - why in the world would you continue to put yourself in that environment?

That's not letting the rapists win and making you lose.

That's saving you for from apparently years and years of being sexually harassed and it's preventing you from getting raped. I'd say you win in that scenario. Take control and make the situation better.

Some of you aren't even arguing the actual situation in the video anymore.

It was said that the women that were harassed (or not, just keeping it simple and calling it harassed) should be able to detach themselves from that, not be influenced by that. So it’s not the men who should adapt their behaviour, is the women that should.

So yeah, while men "should" change, women "could" empower themselves by saying "fuck it, I choose how I feel, no matter what".

Exactly. Great post.

Isn't it fascinating how some of the females on here are downgrading another female's perspective simply because she doesn't agree with theirs? Or because she chooses to not play the victim role?

My wife choosing to be in control of her own situation and not letting others dictate how she feels...........lol, some of the ladies in here are bashing that mindset. Think about that.

Being a strong willed person is now looked down upon.

DONT take control of your life and situations. Don't let other people have power and influence over you. SMH - only on this forum would people say that's a bad thing.

Sorry, I haven't quite mastered to choose the way I feel yet. Kudos to your wife and all other females that have. I would never bash her for not caring about who shouts what at her.

I can see you choose not to understand what we're trying to say though.

[Apollo]

The reason this thread has become retarded is because a handful of people posting here just want to 'win' the argument. The majority of women in this thread have just shared their honest and sometimes upsetting feelings and experiences of what it is like to be a female and dealing with male attention. The fact that some posters are seeking to denigrate those very real feelings just so they can be 'right' on an Internet forum speaks volumes.

On the plus side a number of posters have surprised me with their thoughtful and empathic posts.

There is some truth to your comment.

But you - and a couple of the other more vocal females - are doing the exact same thing that you are complaining about.

If a male shares their opinion and it isn't 100% in line with what yours is - YOU and a couple others aren't willing to talk or work through it with them. MB is crying because I said there are a few people who are doing the normal "friendship likes" that you see in every topic. Seriously? That's the issue here now?

I've asked in several different posts for suggestions of what we all can do (men and women) to help put a stop to this kind of behavior. You guys keep ignoring that and just want to keep bashing the men who are posting. Why is that? Why aren't you guys trying to help us all come up with a solution? Why isn't that more important than just telling us how harassed you are and how unfair it is?

We get it.

Some men are creeps.

Women get harassed. It's horrible. I wish it would all stop.

If I had a magic wand I'd wave it and make everybody perfect humans and ensure that everybody lived perfect lives.

You want all the evil men to NOT have an opinion and just give you sympathy and agree that we are all evil pigs. But you aren't willing to listen or give other people's opinions respect. You made a negative reference to what my FEMALE wife's experience and attitude was regarding this. Her opinion isn't as valid as yours? Why, because she doesn't agree with you?

In another post you said that women should NOT have to make any compromises. WTF?

People make compromises all the time in life. Life isn't perfect and it isn't fair.

Everybody goes through situations in life that aren't fair.

I quit a job because I had a terrible boss. Was that fair? No. Should I have to quit a good job because one person is a jerk? No. I got tired of getting harassed and going home stressed out every night - so I LEFT.

I got ripped off by a car mechanic. Actually hired a lawyer. But in the end it would have cost me more to fight it than to take him to small claims court. So I dropped it. I got screwed by a criminal. Was that fair? Nope.

I actually sold a house and moved to a new neighborhood because the two houses beside me had annoying dogs that barked all the time. I got tired of it. So I moved. Was it fair? No. Should I have to move because of inconsiderate neighbors? No.

Hell, I got mugged one time. There is a situation where you fear for your life. Guy got about $20, about 200 CDs and a bag of groceries I just purchased. Was that fair? Should I be able to shop at the store without fearing being robbed? Of course. But that isn't how life works. So I stopped going to that area if it was dark out.

Sometimes finding a solution is perfectly OK.

I could continue going to that store and continue getting robbed all the time. Because DAMMIT, I should be able to go to any store I want.

OR........I could just go to the store that's two blocks down the street in a safe neighborhood and never get mugged again.

Seriously, if you guys are getting sexually harassed at such a high rate, and are in constant fear of being raped - why in the world would you continue to put yourself in that environment?

That's not letting the rapists win and making you lose.

That's saving you for from apparently years and years of being sexually harassed and it's preventing you from getting raped. I'd say you win in that scenario. Take control and make the situation better.

Some of you aren't even arguing the actual situation in the video anymore.

It was said that the women that were harassed (or not, just keeping it simple and calling it harassed) should be able to detach themselves from that, not be influenced by that. So it’s not the men who should adapt their behaviour, is the women that should.

So yeah, while men "should" change, women "could" empower themselves by saying "fuck it, I choose how I feel, no matter what".

Exactly. Great post.

Isn't it fascinating how some of the females on here are downgrading another female's perspective simply because she doesn't agree with theirs? Or because she chooses to not play the victim role?

My wife choosing to be in control of her own situation and not letting others dictate how she feels...........lol, some of the ladies in here are bashing that mindset. Think about that.

Being a strong willed person is now looked down upon.

DONT take control of your life and situations. Don't let other people have power and influence over you. SMH - only on this forum would people say that's a bad thing.

Sorry, I haven't quite mastered to choose the way I feel yet. Kudos to your wife and all other females that have. I would never bash her for not caring about who shouts what at her.

I can see you choose not to understand what we're trying to say though.

Tell me what I'm not understanding then.

And for the 4th or 5th time - which you guys seem to be ignoring for some reason - tell us how we can fix it for the future.

[Patience 4 Axl]

Of course men can have their opinions. But how valid is that opinion when they aren't a woman on the receiving end of what the topic is about. You can describe what child birth looks like for example, but you can't possibly understand what it feels like, emotionally or physically for a woman. Maybe that's why it's gotten a bit frustrating. We've described our thoughts and opinions, and while no one has advocated these actions discussed, some have certainly marginalized or even dismissed what we've had to say.

Essentially what this boils down to is a quality of life issue. I should have the ability to step outside my home and not have strange men try and interact with me, when I've done absolutely nothing to provoke it. If the government were to enact legislation on the matter, I'd be fine with it.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Patience 4 Axl

[Facekicker]

I should have the ability to step outside my home and not have strange men try and interact with me, when I've done absolutely nothing to provoke it. If the government were to enact legislation on the matter, I'd be fine with it.

I should have the ability to step outside my home and not have strange women try and interact with me, when I've done absolutely nothing to provoke it. If the government were to enact legislation on the matter, I'd be fine with it.

[magisme]

I should have the ability to step outside my home and not have strange men try and interact with me, when I've done absolutely nothing to provoke it. If the government were to enact legislation on the matter, I'd be fine with it.

I should have the ability to step outside my home and not have strange women try and interact with me, when I've done absolutely nothing to provoke it. If the government were to enact legislation on the matter, I'd be fine with it.

I wouldn't be fine with either, just in case there was some confusion.

[Facekicker]

I should have the ability to step outside my home and not have strange men try and interact with me, when I've done absolutely nothing to provoke it. If the government were to enact legislation on the matter, I'd be fine with it.

I should have the ability to step outside my home and not have strange women try and interact with me, when I've done absolutely nothing to provoke it. If the government were to enact legislation on the matter, I'd be fine with it.

I wouldn't be fine with either, just in case there was some confusion.

Me neither. It's abnormal, paranoid and deeply warped thinking.

I knew it was going to eventually boil down to this. It's straight from the classic deranged feminist handbook.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Facekicker

[AxlisOld]

Fucking retarded. Hey, let's make it illegal to talk to someone if they don't want to to. We'll call it the "Stranger Danger" law. Grow the fuck up.

[Roush]

The reason this thread has become retarded is because a handful of people posting here just want to 'win' the argument. The majority of women in this thread have just shared their honest and sometimes upsetting feelings and experiences of what it is like to be a female and dealing with male attention. The fact that some posters are seeking to denigrate those very real feelings just so they can be 'right' on an Internet forum speaks volumes.

It really does. I went to the U.K. once because it was raining, and the pubs were closed. It sucked. I guess my one experience sums up that entire place, and now I use that as evidence for debate. How do you think people would respond to that as I'm a dude?

And that's the way this conversation is going from some of the posters. Those are no facts (who needs those silly things anyway.) Just emotions, and anecdotical evidence. And denial of double standards, hypocrisies, and the occasional logical fallacy. That isn't discussion, that's more of an eight-letter word.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Roush

[Rustycage]

Just curious, is there anyone in this topic that approaches women in any of those ways in the video?

[Orsys]

Just curious, is there anyone in this topic that approaches women in any of those ways in the video?

So that's the thing. I am a big fan of men. My brothers, father, son, cousins are awesome guys and raised to be comfortable with themselves and feel a certain element of control in their own lives that silly behaviour like we have been discussing is not necessary to feel more powerful (and I do believe it is a power thing).

Groghan, you make good points. I believe that I maintain control not by removing myself from the situation, though that can be a valid approach, but by not letting it make me change what I need to do when it does happen. I'm still going to walk on that street I need to walk on, and get to where I need to go. Yes, I may feel humiliated and deflated in that moment and by that guy (by the real harassment comments and actions). But my brothers, dad, son, cousins (and most of you guys) are still awesome to me and I still get on with my day.

What can we do about it? Teach our sons and daughters well. Give them their own personal power and self worth. That's the biggest thing to help in the long run.

[The Glow Inc.]

People would rather give away their freedoms than try and do the work on themselves so they don't live in fear anymore.

Ok.

Interesting.

Edited November 4, 2014 by The Glow Inc.

[Rustycage]

Do gay guys have to deal with the same thing?