What Is Harassment?

[Amir]

Not a fair comparison. It's obvious in the original video that that model had an absolutely cracking arse.

[Ace Nova]

Would it be more appropriate to call this thread "Men are not evil but New Yorkers are arseholes"?

Or wear skin tight outfits from head to toe while prowling around NYC for 10 hours and not expect to get attention.

Not a fair comparison. It's obvious in the original video that that model had an absolutely cracking arse.

And it also helped that the initial model had a skin tight outfit on from head to toe.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Kasanova King

[Facekicker]

Street Harassment Is A Myth Invented By Socially Retarded White Women

Only to today’s autistic American woman does simply being talked to amount to a crisis. Every man over a certain age can agree: girls nowadays are outright crippled by basic social interaction with people they don’t already know. From being asked for directions, to simple elevator small-talk, today’s 20-something woman is an agitated social retard who’s scared of all men, and whose only eye contact is with her iPhone’s “retina” display.

Things only get worse if the man who’s talking to her should, god forbid, obviously try hitting on her—especially if he’s a racial minority. That’s an outright emergency, one that a growing chorus of misfits, weirdos, and social rejects are trying their hardest to brand as criminal. They call it “street harassment,” and it’s part of a cocktail of movements aimed at showing just how dangerous the first world is for the defenseless white girl.

Women Don’t Understand What It Takes to Meet Women

For millennia, men and women met in pretty much one of two ways: they were introduced to one another by someone they knew in common or—for the last several generations—the man had to muster the courage and skill to talk to her in public. An entire planet was populated by regular men seizing the fraction-of-a-secondhe has to get a woman’s attention, deploying his fine-tuned social skills to get her talking, and targeting his powers of persuasion to convincing her to show up again.

That process is harder than it looks. Have you ever had the joy of seeing a woman try to pick up a man cold with something besides her looks? If so, you already know that women have zero skill at creating anything but the most pedestrian of conversations, and even less at sustaining them long enough to get a viable number.

But, while men are across-the-board better at it than women, not all of us are created equal. Just like some women are fatter and uglier than others, some men are better than others at talking to women. For every smooth cat with a phone full of fresh numbers, there are two guys throwing out corny pick-up lines, lavishing sub-standard women with thirsty compliments, and undercutting themselves with self-deprecation in hopes of landing a crumb of traction. For better or worse, it seems the thirstiest and most desperate game comes from men from lower social classes and minority backgrounds.

Baiting Poor Men of Color on Video

Last week, a video showing precisely that emerged. Turns out some internet heroes with an agenda hired an “actress”—who’s a 6.5, at best, on the 1-to-10 scale—to walk through some New York streets on camera for a supposed 10-hour stretch. Judging by the woman’s physique, this had to have been done over the course of several sessions. The intention was to show just how much men would “bother” her during the course of that stroll.

What most people see is a resting-bitch-faced woman stomping her way down some urban streets. Several men try to talk to her in the carefully edited two-minute clip. The men toss a bunch of weak lines in her direction—a standard cocktail of lame compliments and self-deprecating attempts at humor—and move on when none of it hooks.

One or two guys trail her for a few steps to deliver their lines before also giving up. You’re meant to see that being a woman in today’s world is to be subjected to non-stop harassment at the hands of would-be rapists. You could indict the guys for having abysmal game—and maybe bad taste—but not much else.

Sheltered and Fragile Women Fear Normal Social Interaction

Just like being dumb in school has turned into a “disorder” in less than a generation, bad game has suddenly turned into a crime. The word “harassment” used to actually mean something, but today’s American woman is so sheltered and fragile that having to deal with men being interested in her or giving her sloppy (and often undeserved) compliments—if they’re not handsome enough—is a cause for panic.

In fact, it’s even more than that. It’s an outright crime that requires a national campaign to encourage women (and white knights) to report catcallers online.

But the move to re-brand lame pickup lines into harassment isn’t just simple hysteria. I’m not first to point out that it’s outright racism and classism. To parade a provocatively dressed woman through the toughest (and most ethnic) neighborhoods of New York—for hours upon hours—until something happens, is to bait lower- and working-class men into behaviors that are not uncommon, if not straight-up expected, in their environment.

In hardscrabble neighborhoods, only the boldest, loudest, and toughest members of crowd survive. From making friends to picking up girls to not being bullied, things are done differently in the ghetto. If you’re aman walking through these same neighborhoods, you’re just as likely to be “harassed” by guys asking you dumb questions meant to trip you up, talking trash to you, or flat-out threatening you. I’ve had all three happen to me many times.

Viral Street Harassment Video Is Just Another “Hood Prank”

This video—and the movement around it—is nothing more than thinly veiled ridicule of the less fortunate. Cloaked as concern, it’s little more than alarmism manufactured by privileged white women who think the world revolves around their feelings and adheres to their same sterilized, protected, suburban worldview.

It’s no different than the string of now-popular “hood prank videos,” where upper-middle-class white “pranksters” go into black neighborhoods and provoke men of color by stepping on their shoes, stealing from them, or generally annoying them. When the black men react violently, everyone can have a laugh at the animal in the cage.

The only difference here is that white girls are the pranksters.

Men Have Always Met Women By Talking to Them

Many years ago, my father met my mother by “street harassing” her. He stopped her on the street with a silly remark and, as she reflexively tried to walk away from him, he followed next to her and kept talking. Two weeks later, they went on their first date. Eighteen months later, they were married. There are millions of stories like this, but soon this time-honored way of meeting a complete stranger—if the damaged women at Hollaback! and its ilk have their way—will be illegal. Why?

Because today’s socially awkward and terrified women can’t countenance a social interaction that hasn’t somehow been funneled and vetted through the precious iPhone glued to her hand.

By Tuthmosis

[Roush]

Date Latin women.

[MB.]

Are we posting worldwide videos facekicker? Cause I can post women fighting this all over the world.

There is no such thing as harassment? This is an international forum.

I could show you vids of black women adressing the harassment on the streets of NY as well and those are made way before the OP vid. Actually black women are even fighting harder and louder against it in NY. Just do your search.

The world isn't only where you live or NY. You need me to post vids from all over the world, women fighting this harassment or showing clear harassment? And all over the world we should just put up with it? Cause basicly we are all social agitated retards? The women in most North African countries, India, Indonesia, Belgium, Russia, the Netherlands and on and on...

You are adressing only the vid. in the OP, but there are many so much worse videos you can find on the internet.

Edited November 6, 2014 by MB.

[AdriftatSea]

The whole problem with this debate are our different experiences, cultures, countries. It creates miscommunication.

Look Adrift, if I only experienced men holding doors for me and saying: you look nice today. I probably would feel a little different. But that's not what I lived almost every day. You can't imagine my bar story Adrift, that's routine for me. Totally normal. I just think: oh there we go again another drunk idiot!

For p4a being called at with words like: damm nice titts, is routine for her.

We experienced a lot worse. Our experiences made us also react to catcalling different. It made us certainly more annoyed. You can't leave out former experiences. It's impossible to do.

About the moving thing, our housing system is completely different. You can't just move when young. Houses are really expensive here and so is private renting. You work in the city and every village around the city is even more expensive. When young you just don't have the money. You have to do with what the city provides, which mostly isn't in the best neighberhood. It's not that simple. When you finally can move out, you are at an age the problem mostly solved it's own, cause you are getting older .

But even at 41, I still get those barstories. It's in my country not like men holding doors for you, you get those slammed in your face. We are not a very sophisticated country .

You guys think why can't we say a women she looks nice on the streets. why should that be illigal. I understand completely. But for women who live in major cities, it doesn't go like that. We get catcalled constantly and in a different way. It gets annoying really fast. Certainly when bad experiences clouds your judgement. For every guy saying: good morning you look lovely, we get 10 nice ass, nice titts, damm that ass. Guys staring at you in the train for 5 minutes feels very unsafe and uncomfortable. It's not like they are smiling. And I wasn't even that pretty.

Again, I post lio's vid. This is how it goes in my city. All these things in that vid happened to me and all very often. Stuff like 'whore nice ass', asked to have sex out of the blue, all that stuff often.

And no I am not walking the streets angry, it didn't made me annoyed the whole day, or disturbed my daily routine. It was just a normal day, nothing special. Ofcourse I was detached, not that it made any difference, they still shouted. But if you think about it, talk about it, you start thinking, you also think: why do I find these things normal, why was that a normal part of my day? And that is what brings out the emotions.

It's not always like this. Some are more like the NY vid. And sometimes, specially by old guys from Amsterdam it's not so bad, cause they put a lot humor in their comments and Are not scary. In that case it doesn't affect you at all, you just think: silly old men. Although at times it is still annoying, specially early in the morning . But often it goes like Lio's vid.

So yeah to me catcalling is mostly annoying or feels unsafe, depends what is said and how. At the end an innocent 'you look lovely' makes you want them to shut up as well. Not saying it is harassment, but it can feel that way. Enough is enough already.

But it didn't made me hate men, or think they are all horrible. I like men. I always had more male friends then female ones. It just has put my guards up walking the streets, that's all it did.

And yeah it all starts with raising and educating (your) kids. I certainly raise my boys to not ever do that and so is their school.

So this is were a lot of miscommunication comes from, I supppose.

Thanks for taking the time to explain in depth to me MB. It does help to understand where you are coming from when you speak of these issues. I'm sorry things are that way for you. I wish I could view Lio's video. I get a message that it's not available in my country.

[Dan H.]

Look I think the point here is just to make men think before they shout shit on the street.

And honestly I question why anyone feels the overwhelming need to say things to strangers just based on their body. I feel like the best compliments aren't based on something so... Common and shallow.

I think it's a good laugh that people are making this about laws or the philisophical idea of harrassment or whatever.

Just cool it and exercise good judgement.

Edited November 6, 2014 by LiveFromNormal

[bran]

Would it be more appropriate to call this thread "Men are not evil but New Yorkers are arseholes"?

surprise she didnt mace the guy asking for directions, he clearly had an ulterior motive.

[Ace Nova]

Look I think the point here is just to make men think before they shout shit on the street.

And honestly I question why anyone feels the overwhelming need to say things to strangers just based on their body. I feel like the best compliments aren't based on something so... Common and shallow.

I think it's a good laugh that people are making this about laws or the philisophical idea of harrassment or whatever.

Just cool it and exercise good judgement.

Like I already said, most guys don't shout at women on the street. It's a very small minority of a certain demographic. This entire thing has been blown way out of proportion.

[Dan H.]

Look I think the point here is just to make men think before they shout shit on the street.

And honestly I question why anyone feels the overwhelming need to say things to strangers just based on their body. I feel like the best compliments aren't based on something so... Common and shallow.

I think it's a good laugh that people are making this about laws or the philisophical idea of harrassment or whatever.

Just cool it and exercise good judgement.

Like I already said, most guys don't shout at women on the street. It's a very small minority of a certain demographic. This entire thing has been blown way out of proportion.

Oh no doubt.

It is a problem that seems almost exclusive to men though. Creepy men, I should clarify.

That's why I think it's funny so many people are having a hissy fit about it

Edited November 6, 2014 by LiveFromNormal

[bran]

Look I think the point here is just to make men think before they shout shit on the street.

And honestly I question why anyone feels the overwhelming need to say things to strangers just based on their body. I feel like the best compliments aren't based on something so... Common and shallow.

I think it's a good laugh that people are making this about laws or the philisophical idea of harrassment or whatever.

Just cool it and exercise good judgement.

Like I already said, most guys don't shout at women on the street. It's a very small minority of a certain demographic. This entire thing has been blown way out of proportion.

exactly not to mention this is new york for fuck sakes

[Angelica]

Look I think the point here is just to make men think before they shout shit on the street.

And honestly I question why anyone feels the overwhelming need to say things to strangers just based on their body. I feel like the best compliments aren't based on something so... Common and shallow.

I think it's a good laugh that people are making this about laws or the philisophical idea of harrassment or whatever.

Just cool it and exercise good judgement.

[Patience 4 Axl]

Sometimes hello just means hello. Again.

Except when it's not. Why not say hello to the Korean gentleman walking on my right, the middle aged Puerto Rican lady to my left, the overweight mom pushing a stroller behind me, or the 3 black dudes in front of me. What you guys don't seem to realize is that women are quite capable of figuring out the meaning behind a hello. Yes, we don't get paid as much and we're the weaker sex, but we've managed to evolve just enough to understand the word. They're not always just a hello, is our point. And if it's a stranger passing you by in the street, it almost never is. If it were, then say it to all the other people around me. It's just a hello. Say it to Everyone. Everyone. Everyone. Tell me what you may still be confused about, perhaps I can help. Everyone. Again.

Look I think the point here is just to make men think before they shout shit on the street.

And honestly I question why anyone feels the overwhelming need to say things to strangers just based on their body. I feel like the best compliments aren't based on something so... Common and shallow.

I think it's a good laugh that people are making this about laws or the philisophical idea of harrassment or whatever.

Just cool it and exercise good judgement.

Like I already said, most guys don't shout at women on the street. It's a very small minority of a certain demographic. This entire thing has been blown way out of proportion.

Right. So before I get home tonight I stop to get gas. I'm standing there filling my tank and I hear beep beep. I don't look up, just there minding my own business, when I hear "Yo.....Yo Blondie over here". Yeah I know, before anyone feels the urge to say it, only in NY. So I glance over, 2 guys are in a car waiting at the light, just staring with wide idiotic grins. I turn my back to the street, keep filling the car, and yep, there it is again, beep beeeeep. I don't move, the light turns green and they drive away. See, despite the fact that I'm obviously just so fuckin full of myself, I don't get that. I don't get the point of it. There was some older man at the pump behind me and I see him looking around and looking at me and it's embarrassing, it's degrading. I'm sorry if guys aren't understanding what we, as women, deal with. You can do something as mundane as getting gas and not be bothered. So, on second thought no, I'm not sorry. Most of you can fuck off because you're making the choice not to understand.

[AdriftatSea]

MB sent me the name of the video Lio posted. I was able to find it online. That was so painful to watch. For all of you women that go through that, I'm so sorry for you. Now I understand. That is just awful! I can't imagine having to deal with that while just walking down the street, or while just putting gas in your car. How painful that must be. I really do feel for you. I apologize if I minimized your feelings. I wish you could walk down my streets and be treated like the ladies that each of you truly are.

[Forsaken]

45 pages? Holy shit.

[Ace Nova]

Right. So before I get home tonight I stop to get gas. I'm standing there filling my tank and I hear beep beep. I don't look up, just there minding my own business, when I hear "Yo.....Yo Blondie over here". Yeah I know, before anyone feels the urge to say it, only in NY. So I glance over, 2 guys are in a car waiting at the light, just staring with wide idiotic grins. I turn my back to the street, keep filling the car, and yep, there it is again, beep beeeeep. I don't move, the light turns green and they drive away. See, despite the fact that I'm obviously just so fuckin full of myself, I don't get that. I don't get the point of it. There was some older man at the pump behind me and I see him looking around and looking at me and it's embarrassing, it's degrading. I'm sorry if guys aren't understanding what we, as women, deal with. You can do something as mundane as getting gas and not be bothered. So, on second thought no, I'm not sorry. Most of you can fuck off because you're making the choice not to understand.

So 2 guys.... in a city of what....8 million.....happen to fall in that demographic....so every other guy is now an asshole too because of them? I understand where you are coming from, I've seen it plenty of times myself and I don't agree with it. But if I had to guess, it's probably less than 1% of the male population that acts that way. And I'm also willing to guess that you probably were seen by dozens, if not, hundreds of other guys today, that didn't make a peep at you.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Kasanova King

[AdriftatSea]

Right. So before I get home tonight I stop to get gas. I'm standing there filling my tank and I hear beep beep. I don't look up, just there minding my own business, when I hear "Yo.....Yo Blondie over here". Yeah I know, before anyone feels the urge to say it, only in NY. So I glance over, 2 guys are in a car waiting at the light, just staring with wide idiotic grins. I turn my back to the street, keep filling the car, and yep, there it is again, beep beeeeep. I don't move, the light turns green and they drive away. See, despite the fact that I'm obviously just so fuckin full of myself, I don't get that. I don't get the point of it. There was some older man at the pump behind me and I see him looking around and looking at me and it's embarrassing, it's degrading. I'm sorry if guys aren't understanding what we, as women, deal with. You can do something as mundane as getting gas and not be bothered. So, on second thought no, I'm not sorry. Most of you can fuck off because you're making the choice not to understand.

So 2 guys.... in a city of what....8 million.....happen to fall in that demographic....so every other guy is now an asshole too because of them? I understand where you are coming from, I've seen it plenty of times myself and I don't agree with it. But if I had to guess, it's probably less than 1% of the male population that acts that way. I guarantee you probably were seen by dozens, if not, hundreds of other guys today that didn't make a peep at you.

She's just explaining how she feels. Give her a break.

[Ace Nova]

Right. So before I get home tonight I stop to get gas. I'm standing there filling my tank and I hear beep beep. I don't look up, just there minding my own business, when I hear "Yo.....Yo Blondie over here". Yeah I know, before anyone feels the urge to say it, only in NY. So I glance over, 2 guys are in a car waiting at the light, just staring with wide idiotic grins. I turn my back to the street, keep filling the car, and yep, there it is again, beep beeeeep. I don't move, the light turns green and they drive away. See, despite the fact that I'm obviously just so fuckin full of myself, I don't get that. I don't get the point of it. There was some older man at the pump behind me and I see him looking around and looking at me and it's embarrassing, it's degrading. I'm sorry if guys aren't understanding what we, as women, deal with. You can do something as mundane as getting gas and not be bothered. So, on second thought no, I'm not sorry. Most of you can fuck off because you're making the choice not to understand.

So 2 guys.... in a city of what....8 million.....happen to fall in that demographic....so every other guy is now an asshole too because of them? I understand where you are coming from, I've seen it plenty of times myself and I don't agree with it. But if I had to guess, it's probably less than 1% of the male population that acts that way. I guarantee you probably were seen by dozens, if not, hundreds of other guys today that didn't make a peep at you.

She's just explaining how she feels. Give her a break.

I would totally be annoyed by it too. All I'm saying is don't crucify 99% of the guys that don't do it for the 1% of the guys that do.

[Ace Nova]

If you look at the history of rock music (and now Hip Hop) it pretty much glorifies this sort of behavior. Maybe a lot of these guys have been conditioned to this sort of behavior over the years?

I blame ZZ Top:

Edited November 6, 2014 by Kasanova King

[bran]

Right. So before I get home tonight I stop to get gas. I'm standing there filling my tank and I hear beep beep. I don't look up, just there minding my own business, when I hear "Yo.....Yo Blondie over here". Yeah I know, before anyone feels the urge to say it, only in NY. So I glance over, 2 guys are in a car waiting at the light, just staring with wide idiotic grins. I turn my back to the street, keep filling the car, and yep, there it is again, beep beeeeep. I don't move, the light turns green and they drive away. See, despite the fact that I'm obviously just so fuckin full of myself, I don't get that. I don't get the point of it. There was some older man at the pump behind me and I see him looking around and looking at me and it's embarrassing, it's degrading. I'm sorry if guys aren't understanding what we, as women, deal with. You can do something as mundane as getting gas and not be bothered. So, on second thought no, I'm not sorry. Most of you can fuck off because you're making the choice not to understand.

So 2 guys.... in a city of what....8 million.....happen to fall in that demographic....so every other guy is now an asshole too because of them? I understand where you are coming from, I've seen it plenty of times myself and I don't agree with it. But if I had to guess, it's probably less than 1% of the male population that acts that way. I willing to guess that you probably were seen by dozens, if not, hundreds of other guys today, that didn't make a peep at you.

exactly. when you are in a city crammed with 8 million people, the likelihood of finding a scumbag or 2 is much greater than walking around a city of 13,000 like where i live. if you do not want to be bothered being in a city like new york isnt the best place to be.

[AxlisOld]

God can P4A just shut up and get over herself? I hear stuff I don't want to hear all the time, you know what I do? I act like a big boy and don't cry and demand legislation protecting me. I ignore it. God forbid right?

[SoulMonster]

I would totally be annoyed by it too. All I'm saying is don't crucify 99% of the guys that don't do it for the 1% of the guys that do.

No one is!

This discussion would be much more productive if guys here wouldn't feel so pathetically victimized. No one has said that ALL men act like this. More specifically, no one has said that YOU act like this. It is a MINORITY of men. It is STILL a PROBLEM and it should be discussed, ideally without men trivializing the issue or acting all hurt because they feel accused of something or because they are afraid they might not come across as perfect gentlemen. This is not about YOU, this is about a global phenomenon of women feeling threatened and bothered and even harassed because of SOME men's lack of empathy and social skills. It is important that we discuss this and are able to see it from women's side, because even if WE would never do anything to bother unknown women in the streets, we will become father to boys, teachers's and role models to other men, who might, unless we as a society scorn such behaviour, propagate the problem.

Again, not advocating legislation or a culture where men believe they can never approach women on the street, just a tad more sensibility around the issue, more understanding of how this is from women's side, and less asshole behaviour.

[Lio]

I would totally be annoyed by it too. All I'm saying is don't crucify 99% of the guys that don't do it for the 1% of the guys that do.

No one is!

This discussion would be much more productive if guys here wouldn't feel so pathetically victimized. No one has said that ALL men act like this. More specifically, no one has said that YOU act like this. It is a MINORITY of men. It is STILL a PROBLEM and it should be discussed, ideally without men trivializing the issue or acting all hurt because they feel accused of something or because they are afraid they might not come across as perfect gentlemen. This is not about YOU, this is about a global phenomenon of women feeling threatened and bothered and even harassed because of SOME men's lack of empathy and social skills. It is important that we discuss this and are able to see it from women's side, because even if WE would never do anything to bother unknown women in the streets, we will become father to boys, teachers's and role models to other men, who might, unless we as a society scorn such behaviour, propagate the problem.

Again, not advocating legislation or a culture where men believe they can never approach women on the street, just a tad more sensibility around the issue, more understanding of how this is from women's side, and less asshole behaviour.

Thank you

[MB.]

I would totally be annoyed by it too. All I'm saying is don't crucify 99% of the guys that don't do it for the 1% of the guys that do.

No one is!

This discussion would be much more productive if guys here wouldn't feel so pathetically victimized. No one has said that ALL men act like this. More specifically, no one has said that YOU act like this. It is a MINORITY of men. It is STILL a PROBLEM and it should be discussed, ideally without men trivializing the issue or acting all hurt because they feel accused of something or because they are afraid they might not come across as perfect gentlemen. This is not about YOU, this is about a global phenomenon of women feeling threatened and bothered and even harassed because of SOME men's lack of empathy and social skills. It is important that we discuss this and are able to see it from women's side, because even if WE would never do anything to bother unknown women in the streets, we will become father to boys, teachers's and role models to other men, who might, unless we as a society scorn such behaviour, propagate the problem.

Again, not advocating legislation or a culture where men believe they can never approach women on the street, just a tad more sensibility around the issue, more understanding of how this is from women's side, and less asshole behaviour.

Thank you

I was just writing a reply similar to yours Soulmonster, only you did it so much better

[magisme]

It's important to discuss this as long as you agree completely with the right side. And I mean completely. Otherwise your words will be twisted and you'll be accused of consciously trying not to understand and denying harassment exists. And don't discuss it in ways you're not supposed to either. If you discuss legal and philosophical implications, that's funny and not worth our time.

Is that about right?