What Is Harassment?

[Ace Nova]

No it's not at all, thats half of what goes on with music, seriously, are you that mental, so when I'm listening to the song Belsen Was A Gas by The Sex Pistols I'm a hypocrite for then having sympathy for victims of the holocaust? Not at all, one is a piece of art, films, music, these things are designed to evoke emotional responses, it ain't your fuckin' vote or nothing.

Also, you could like a song and not give a flying fuck about the lyrics, isn't that possible? I know loads of people that love Imagine by John Lennon, are they then hypocrites for not immediately wanting the eradication of possessions and money and religion? Come on man.

I'm referring primarily to "sensitivity level". How can one be "open minded" and "thick skinned" enough not to let these songs bother them...and take them for what they are.....yet, a man on the street that says "hi" is now a "potentially threatening situation"? Personally, I would think some random, harmless guy saying hi, wouldn't be nearly as offensive as some of these songs.

But hey, that's just me.

This has nothing to do with advocating or condoning anything.... It's about sensitivity level.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Kasanova King

[alfierose]

Clearly this forum is too dangerous for all of us. I motion that we close down and restart as a forum dedicated to Friar Alessandro.

Problem solved. :-P

[Ace Nova]

Thing with GnR is that I have total choice and control in my involvement. Kind of different with the catcalling.

That's fair enough, I can accept that as a logical explanation.

[alfierose]

No it's not at all, thats half of what goes on with music, seriously, are you that mental, so when I'm listening to the song Belsen Was A Gas by The Sex Pistols I'm a hypocrite for then having sympathy for victims of the holocaust? Not at all, one is a piece of art, films, music, these things are designed to evoke emotional responses, it ain't your fuckin' vote or nothing.

Also, you could like a song and not give a flying fuck about the lyrics, isn't that possible? I know loads of people that love Imagine by John Lennon, are they then hypocrites for not immediately wanting the eradication of possessions and money and religion? Come on man.

I'm referring primarily to "sensitivity level". How can one be "open minded" and "thick skinned" enough not to let these songs bother them...and take them for what they are.....yet, a man on the street that says "hi" is now a "potentially threatening situation"? Personally, I would think some random, harmless guy saying hi, wouldn't be nearly as offensive as some of these songs.

But hey, that's just me.

This has nothing to do with advocating or condoning anything.... it's about senitivty level.

You mentioned being yelled at not saying Hi.

[Ace Nova]

No it's not at all, thats half of what goes on with music, seriously, are you that mental, so when I'm listening to the song Belsen Was A Gas by The Sex Pistols I'm a hypocrite for then having sympathy for victims of the holocaust? Not at all, one is a piece of art, films, music, these things are designed to evoke emotional responses, it ain't your fuckin' vote or nothing.

Also, you could like a song and not give a flying fuck about the lyrics, isn't that possible? I know loads of people that love Imagine by John Lennon, are they then hypocrites for not immediately wanting the eradication of possessions and money and religion? Come on man.

I'm referring primarily to "sensitivity level". How can one be "open minded" and "thick skinned" enough not to let these songs bother them...and take them for what they are.....yet, a man on the street that says "hi" is now a "potentially threatening situation"? Personally, I would think some random, harmless guy saying hi, wouldn't be nearly as offensive as some of these songs.

But hey, that's just me.

This has nothing to do with advocating or condoning anything.... it's about senitivty level.

You mentioned being yelled at not saying Hi.

There have been so many different opinions in this thread, it's beginning to get difficult to decipher where anyone stands anymore....

Some have stated that men saying, "Hi" could also be considered "harrassment"....not sure who was in that camp.

Anyway, I would think that even a catcall wouldn't be as offensive to women as some of the stuff that G N' R has released and done over the years.

But given the length of this thread, I guess I'm wrong.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Kasanova King

[Facekicker]

The endgame is that feminists who consider "Hi" to be a form of harassment want legislation to be brought in.

[alfierose]

As Orsys said it's about having autonomy. I can choose where to draw the line in what I listen to, nobody is forcing me. Axl et al's thoughts via their music doesn't offend me massively. I don't agree with some of the sentiments but the guy is talented and I enjoy the music. If he joined this thread I'd probably argue with him or if he hassled me in the street I'd be pissed off.

I take your point though, a lot of entertainment and art is about enjoyment of things that aren't palatable in real life. It's a bit of a grey area and we could start a whole new thread on just that subject.

[MB.]

I think this is a total miscommunication. We feel not heard and that's really frustrating. It's like everything we say is blown out of proportion.

Most women don't like to be cat called and I personally don't know any mature educated women who does. So don't expect a 'thank you'.

Vulgair cat calling is harassment. (Nice ass, want to F...?)

Don't follow a girl to give her attention, when she is clearly not wanting attention, just back of

We never said, you can't approach women ever or not to ask the direction or can't greet in a normal tone. Ofcourse you can (well in most cultures)

Approaching a woman and stop her to compliment her will not automaticly be recieved well, but ofcourse sometimes it will. Just be respectful and handle a turn down well. Not saying you can't ever do that. Read the bodylanguage and since you are all the good guys, I am sure you are able to do that.

Again culture, former experiences, the neighberhood we grew up in or where we live etc. etc. all play a role in how all of this is recieved, be aware of that.

Solution:

Education and how parents raise their kids. We need to learn them, to be respectful to eachother

I also suspect we all basicly agree with eachother as well. So this whole discussion is way out of proportion. You guys react like we hate or feel threatened by ALL men constantly. We don't and never said that.

Personal opinion about the legal aspect:

Vulgair cat calling should be fined

[Roush]

The endgame is that feminists who consider "Hi" to be a form of harassment want legislation to be brought in.

Most women don't think like that, though. Many of the more vocal feminists tend to have mental illnesses, or social problems. Akin to their forum, male equivalents.

All's I'm saying is there are crazies in every bunch. But most folks are pretty "whatever" to all this.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Roush

[Ace Nova]

All's I'm saying is there are crazies in every bunch. But most folks are pretty "whatever" to all this.

That's pretty much what I thought.....before I wandered into this thread, anyway......

[Facekicker]

I'm glad that we can all agree (well most of us) that saying Hi or Good Morning is not harassment. The sad truth however is that deranged feminists get disproportionate media attention to air their nutty views and this is having a very damaging influence to society. It is a pity that normal feminists don't call them out on their bullshit more often.

[bran]

I'm glad that we can all agree (well most of us) that saying Hi or Good Morning is not harassment. The sad truth however is that deranged feminists get disproportionate media attention to air their nutty views and this is having a very damaging influence to society. It is a pity that normal feminists don't call them out on their bullshit more often.

in the US(i think there was an article in the UK as well) there was an article(i think on the huffington post) that basically said that men who hold doors for a woman or calling your daughter or a young girl a princess was sexist.

[Facekicker]

Edited November 6, 2014 by Facekicker

[Mysteron]

The lady carried out her study with the intention of collecting and editing comments to fit in with her agenda.

A few men, in life, are creepy, many are just bad at chatting up, and engaging, strangers.

In the 80s, the whole ethos in advertising was about going out and talking to strange ladies, with your fancy new deodorant, or your lovely white teeth with your new toothpaste etc.. The concept of approaching people and engaging with them should not be discouraged. It is not a skill taught at school though, and can come across as laboured and sometime creepy in this day and age.

We live in an age where ladies want equal this and equal that, and part of that process involves them putting down men

As a random example, look at tennis at Wimbledon, the ladies play three sets, they get lower viewing figures, and generate a lot less money than the men, yet they now get equal pay and winnings. That inequality means that young UK tennis gets less funding.

[Ace Nova]

I'm glad that we can all agree (well most of us) that saying Hi or Good Morning is not harassment. The sad truth however is that deranged feminists get disproportionate media attention to air their nutty views and this is having a very damaging influence to society. It is a pity that normal feminists don't call them out on their bullshit more often.

in the US(i think there was an article in the UK as well) there was an article(i think on the huffington post) that basically said that men who hold doors for a woman or calling your daughter or a young girl a princess was sexist.

[Facekicker]

I'm glad that we can all agree (well most of us) that saying Hi or Good Morning is not harassment. The sad truth however is that deranged feminists get disproportionate media attention to air their nutty views and this is having a very damaging influence to society. It is a pity that normal feminists don't call them out on their bullshit more often.

in the US(i think there was an article in the UK as well) there was an article(i think on the huffington post) that basically said that men who hold doors for a woman or calling your daughter or a young girl a princess was sexist.

Just browse the HuffingtonPost at random. It's basically the equivalent of FoxNews for liberal fucktards.

[Roush]

Women, and men are human first.

- I had an overweight, married lady manger feel me up at my job.

- I have had three significant female stalkers over my life.

- I have been groped on by drunk, middle-aged women at the bar.

- My ex-girlfriend's mother wanted to bang me (and texted me several horny messages implying so.)

So I don't wanna hear it, ladies. That pussy doesn't give you a hall pass on the creepin'.

[Roush]

Oh, and while we're talking about how Western women are victimised, and all that hullabaloo. Well, did you know second-wave feminism was a CIA op designed to split the U.S.?

Yup. Go ask their main babe, Gloria Steinem.

[Patience 4 Axl]

Sometimes hello just means hello. Again.

Except when it's not. Why not say hello to the Korean gentleman walking on my right, the middle aged Puerto Rican lady to my left, the overweight mom pushing a stroller behind me, or the 3 black dudes in front of me. What you guys don't seem to realize is that women are quite capable of figuring out the meaning behind a hello. Yes, we don't get paid as much and we're the weaker sex, but we've managed to evolve just enough to understand the word. They're not always just a hello, is our point. And if it's a stranger passing you by in the street, it almost never is. If it were, then say it to all the other people around me. It's just a hello. Say it to Everyone. Everyone. Everyone. Tell me what you may still be confused about, perhaps I can help. Everyone. Again.

You do understand what the word "sometimes" means yeah?

Yep, I can confirm I understand the word hello and also the word sometimes. Why don't you start from the letter a and we'll work our way thru the dictionary. Still doesn't address my point.

Funny how you quote P4A saying that, because it's pretty obvious she's right. Several people in this thread have been making efforts to misinterpret everything said by the people they disagree with. She has a good point.

Yep, that's it.

Out of curiosity, when I said, "Yes, that would annoy me too". And that I DON'T agree with such behavior, nor do I practice such behavior. What exactly does that mean?

For the record, I didn't single you out. You happened to say how guys don't shout on the street. It was the one and only personal experience I've shared in this thread and only because I happened to see your post.

You stated "that would annoy me" several posts after I said many of the guys here are choosing not to understand. And they don't, plain and simple. Several men in this thread however have been amazingly supportive. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

And anyone want to point out where I, or any other female is grouping ALL men into this category? Some have even gone out of their way to say how much they love men, just in case that required clarification for some of the guys here.

So today I've got another story to share. It was raining today. I'm walking to the door of my building and a guy in front of me steps aside to hold the door open. I'm trying to close my umbrella and it's not working. Random guy is still standing there waiting. In the rain! I look up and say 'oh, that's ok, I'm trying to get this thing closed'. He reaches out and says 'let me try'. I'm still frantically pushing the button and it finally collapses. We walk into the lobby and ride up the elevator together, making small talk about the weather, how it's going to get colder, how we're not looking forward to the winter, blah blah blah.

No, not every experience is negative, but the topic was about harassment, and the women here, who have been victims of it, have discussed how it's affected them. Some of the guys here seem to have a problem with that. Well, that's just not our fault.

Ah, emotions.

Your argument has the same intellectual credibility as the guy whose girlfriend cheats on him, and now "all women are bitches".

Only the evil, man hating, feminist ones.

[AxlisOld]

So today I've got another story to share. It was raining today. I'm walking to the door of my building and a guy in front of me steps aside to hold the door open. I'm trying to close my umbrella and it's not working. Random guy is still standing there waiting. In the rain! I look up and say 'oh, that's ok, I'm trying to get this thing closed'. He reaches out and says 'let me try'. I'm still frantically pushing the button and it finally collapses. We walk into the lobby and ride up the elevator together, making small talk about the weather, how it's going to get colder, how we're not looking forward to the winter, blah blah blah.

Slut, you were totally asking for it. Surprised you didn't rape him.

[Roush]

Ah, emotions.

Your argument has the same intellectual credibility as the guy whose girlfriend cheats on him, and now "all women are bitches".

Only the evil, man hating, feminist ones.

No, I don't find mental illness funny. Unless you pose naked with ugly tattoos on HBO shows.

[SoulMonster]

If you actually paid attention, I was referring to this line by P4A: "So, on second thought no, I'm not sorry. Most of you can fuck off because you're making the choice not to understand."

Pretty much rendering your entire response pointless, as I was responding to her telling "Most of us" to fuck off.

Uhm, looking back I think P4A was talking about men in this thread who make the choice to not understand [the female pespective]. I am not going to do the tally but she could be right. But yeah, I talked about the sentiment that has been expressed in this thread where guys are annoyed by feeling profiled as potential abusers and harassers because of the actions of the minority. The YOU's in my post wasn't directed at you, KK, but at the collective of men active in the thread, me included, actually.

Next time you want to address the "collective" as YOU, it would help not quoting one of MY quotes.

Just sayin'

Sure! I actually thought about making it more clear but failed. Sorry.

[Dazey]

You guys react like we hate or feel threatened by ALL men constantly. We don't and never said that.

But some people in this thread effectively have said that. It's them that most of the arguments are directed at.

[Dazey]

So today I've got another story to share. It was raining today. I'm walking to the door of my building and a guy in front of me steps aside to hold the door open. I'm trying to close my umbrella and it's not working. Random guy is still standing there waiting. In the rain! I look up and say 'oh, that's ok, I'm trying to get this thing closed'. He reaches out and says 'let me try'. I'm still frantically pushing the button and it finally collapses. We walk into the lobby and ride up the elevator together, making small talk about the weather, how it's going to get colder, how we're not looking forward to the winter, blah blah blah.

For clarification are you citing this as an incident of harassment or a positive experience?

[Orsys]

The lady carried out her study with the intention of collecting and editing comments to fit in with her agenda.

A few men, in life, are creepy, many are just bad at chatting up, and engaging, strangers.

In the 80s, the whole ethos in advertising was about going out and talking to strange ladies, with your fancy new deodorant, or your lovely white teeth with your new toothpaste etc.. The concept of approaching people and engaging with them should not be discouraged. It is not a skill taught at school though, and can come across as laboured and sometime creepy in this day and age.

We live in an age where ladies want equal this and equal that, and part of that process involves them putting down men

As a random example, look at tennis at Wimbledon, the ladies play three sets, they get lower viewing figures, and generate a lot less money than the men, yet they now get equal pay and winnings. That inequality means that young UK tennis gets less funding.

I guess I would have to know the investment in men's tennis in bringing up young tennis players vs investment in women's tennis before commenting on that. I know that investment in girls sports was disgusting vs boys sports in my school and young sports teams.

And I HAVE equal rights. I just don't want things or people standing in my way of enjoying my rights. I don't have to, nor do I, put men down in my pursuit of that enjoyment. But in highlighting the inequalities, I am not putting men down. Were you putting women down in highlighting your perceived inequalities in tennis?

Edited November 7, 2014 by Orsys