The Boxing Thread

[Len Cnut]

My judgements slightly impaired but Petersen doing him if you ask me.

[ronaldo9]

Out of town, so recorded it. Heard it was a close fight. Didn't hear about Quillin-Lee, so that'll at least be a surprise (I failed to avoid social media at the time of the main event...). For some reason thought the Matthysse-Provodnikov fight was tonight, too, and was disappointed that I forgot to record it. Happy to see I was wrong about that fight date.

Edited April 12, 2015 by ronaldo9

[streak]

Looks like Brook will face Frankie Gavin: http://www.badlefthook.com/2015/4/8/8369197/kell-brook-to-face-frankie-gavin-in-optional-title-defense

Thats a decent fight. Gavin was world amateur champion and has got skills. Hasn't really set the world on fire as a pro but he is decent.

Khan really needs some management. I totally understand thier point, at this moment in time in thier careers Khan is at a higher level, fought much better opponents and won. But he really needs to stop talking and get fighting.

Brook looks good, but who has he fought that is on the level of say, Maidana? Shawn Porter? Carson Jones? Lets have some perspective here.

[ronaldo9]

Article on Al Haymon and the early success of PBC: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/al-haymon-still-pulling-all-the-strings-as-boxing-s-unknown-czar-213946413-boxing.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw

Going to go ahead and agree with Dana White--it's nice seeing someone heavily invest back into the business to help it grow. Though, like Len brought up earlier in this thread, it can be dangerous for one person to have so much power. Still, I like how Haymon's PBC idea has started out.

[Len Cnut]

Article on Al Haymon and the early success of PBC: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/al-haymon-still-pulling-all-the-strings-as-boxing-s-unknown-czar-213946413-boxing.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw

Going to go ahead and agree with Dana White--it's nice seeing someone heavily invest back into the business to help it grow. Though, like Len brought up earlier in this thread, it can be dangerous for one person to have so much power. Still, I like how Haymon's PBC idea has started out.

Yeah, with one of his big name fighters winning a dodgy desicion...again.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Ok so I watched the Klitchko documentary recently and here are my thoughts...

I have to admit that I've been a little hard on them over the years, they can only beat the guys of their era, and they did a great job of that. I also have to admit they are all time greats, but I say that as top 20 all time, but probably not top ten. Vitali should of had the better career, he only took 2 losses 1 of which was to a an all time great (Lennox) while the other loss occured while he was injured. Vitali retired, so he can properly be compared to other legends.

Wladimir is the one getting the accoliads and chasing Joe Louis's record, so I'm a little harder on him. Also he has 3 losses on his record, none of Which are to guys that can be considered legends or even great fighters. Plus he was straight knocked the fuck out at least once, from my memory. Also, these losses occured during his prime. Comparing them to Tyson, that's like Tyson losing to Douglas, then going out and losing to Henry Tillman or some other mid level heavyweight.

I understand why they refused to fight each other, because they made a promise to their mother. But having said that, it is a blemish on both of their careers. Why? Because neither guy ever officially became the undisputed champion. Yes Wladimir is the lineal or ring champion, but he at no point during his reign has been undisputed. Why? Because his brother had the WBC belt for a majority of Wlad's reign, and he hasn't gotten that belt since Vitali retired either. So despite his longevity as champion, how can anyone honestly argue it was a greater reign than Tyson, Hollyfield, Lennox, or even Riddick Bowe? They were all the UNDISPUTED champ at one time or another. Which don't even try and compare their reigns to guys like Ali or Joe Louis, not even remotely close.

Which I'm not writing this as some big Klitchko bash fest, as I said earlier I have gained a new respect for them. They both have to be considered top 20 all time. They were both legitimate and good champions. I have to respect their accomplishments, but I agree with what Lennox Lewis said in the film. He said "boxing is a one king of the mountain type of sport, so having 2 guys splitting the belts and sharing the title as champion has lessened it to a certain degree."

Now if Wlad goes out and wins the WBC belt and becomes the undisputed champion, he would gain a lot of credibility IMO. It still doesn't excuse his earlier "prime" losses, but it would help his career and help legitimize his chasing of Louis's record.

[DieselDaisy]

There does not seem to be much desire for 'undisputed champion' these days. That welterweight division could be unified in three matches. The Heavyweight division could be unified by merely pitting Wilder against Chagaev and having a winner v Vlad fight. Nobody seems to care about unification though (or we would have got Khan v Brook).

[ronaldo9]

[Len Cnut]

'Its not official yet, we're looking into other options!'

Wankerrrrrrrrrrrr.

There does not seem to be much desire for 'undisputed champion' these days. That welterweight division could be unified in three matches. The Heavyweight division could be unified by merely pitting Wilder against Chagaev and having a winner v Vlad fight. Nobody seems to care about unification though (or we would have got Khan v Brook).

No excuse for this.

[RandallFlagg]

Algieri would've been 'reasonable' if he came back with a decent victory then fought Khan, still doesn't correlate with A-Class as his Brook avoidance reason and if he struggled against him, he'd be laughed at, if he struggles now he'd be absolutely hung out to dry and Algieri has some skills so who knows. Expect a Khan whitewash though, he did great against Alexander who is almost an elite boxer himself.

It's miles better than fucking frankie gavin, we have to wait to see what Hearn manages to secure for his end of summer fight. Marquez, Rios and Thurman have been touted, Brook has the belt but can Hearn lure them overseas?

Edited April 15, 2015 by RandallFlagg

[Iron MikeyJ]

There does not seem to be much desire for 'undisputed champion' these days. That welterweight division could be unified in three matches. The Heavyweight division could be unified by merely pitting Wilder against Chagaev and having a winner v Vlad fight. Nobody seems to care about unification though (or we would have got Khan v Brook).

It doesn't matter that "there does not seem to be much desire for undisputed champion anymore", facts are facts. Which neither Klitchko ever became the Undisputed Champ, so that is a blemish on their careers IMO. How can you honestly say that Wlad's accomplishments are as impressive as any of the guys from the 90's when they all held all of the belts for a period, especially Mike. People like to down play his reign, but the fact remains that he unified the titles, then Douglas beat him, then Holyfield beat Douglas, then Bowe beat Holyfield. It was Bowe that gave away one of the belts. Then latter, yes Lennox unified the belts again, but then he gave one away as well, and the titles have not been unified since. Which you can talk about modern fighters not caring about unifying the titles all you want, but the facts still stand. So when people want to praise Wlad (which he has been a great champion, I'm not saying he hasn't) I am saying that it is legitimate blemish that he never unified the titles, especially when he might break Louis's record, when Louis fought his entire career as the undisputed champion.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ

[DieselDaisy]

There does not seem to be much desire for 'undisputed champion' these days. That welterweight division could be unified in three matches. The Heavyweight division could be unified by merely pitting Wilder against Chagaev and having a winner v Vlad fight. Nobody seems to care about unification though (or we would have got Khan v Brook).

It doesn't matter that "there does not seem to be much desire for undisputed champion anymore", facts are facts. Which neither Klitchko ever became the Undisputed Champ, so that is a blemish on their careers IMO. How can you honestly say that Wlad's accomplishments are as impressive as any of the guys from the 90's when they all held all of the belts for a period, especially Mike. People like to down play his reign, but the fact remains that he unified the titles, then Douglas beat him, then Holyfield beat Douglas, then Bowe beat Holyfield. It was Bowe that gave away one of the belts. Then latter, yes Lennox unified the belts again, but then he gave one away as well, and the titles have not been unified since. Which you can talk about modern fighters not caring about unifying the titles all you want, but the facts still stand. So when people want to praise Wlad (which he has been a great champion, I'm not saying he hasn't) I am saying that it is legitimate blemish that he never unified the titles, especially when he might break Louis's record, when Louis fought his entire career as the undisputed champion.

You are preaching to the choir here.

You have to remember that in Louis's day, there were only two belts (WBA/WBC).

[Iron MikeyJ]

Well not technically, the WBC didn't start until 1963, while the WBA started in 1962. But the WBA has roots that can be traced back to 1921. But it just goes to show boxing has always been a mess because they have never had one true sanctioning body. But back before the sixties, only one man was recognised as champion of each division, so at least it was a clearer picture.

[DieselDaisy]

Well yes, it was the New York State Athletic Commission and the National Boxing Associations, but the argument still stands: 1921-1983 there were only ever two major titles for an 'undisputed champion' to hypothetically unite, a much easier proposition than the four plus, today. There also seemed a much greater urgency to witness unification bouts. Ali v Terrell happened three years after Ali was stripped of the WBA belt for agreeing to Liston II (it would have happened much sooner, when Ali fought Chuvalo, if not for the politics of Ali's draft status and some pecuniary considerations from Terrell's camp). Another example is, Leonard v Hearns I; it happened just two years after Leonard had clinched the WBC version of the welterweight championship from Benitiz and one year after Hearns had beaten Cuevas for the WBA (and this is not taking into consideration Leonard's Duran matches).

Even when there were three belts, Tyson captured all three belts in 1986-7 (and then The Ring in 1988); two of those unification bouts happened consequentially (Berbick and Smith)! Can you imagine that happening today? You could theoretically have all of this today by having the winner of (a hypothetical) Brook v Khan take on, the winner on May 2nd, but look at Khan's stalling? Is this really unique? Why doesn't someone stick Wilder in the ring with Vlad? 33-0: it is a better guarantee than Clay's paltry 19-0, his record before facing Liston.

There does not seem to be the same sense of urgency, to create undisputed champs anymore, certainly not from the sanctioning bodies but sadly not from the fighters either. Credit where credit is due though for Brook calling out Khan.

Edited April 16, 2015 by DieselDaisy

[streak]

DieselDaisy, its all about money. Every promoter or anyone with any vested interest in a fighter just wants to milk them for all they are worth, the titles are just as bad for this.

I remember watching Joe Calzaghe fight years back, defending his 'WBO' title against mandatories, whilst the German champion, Sven Ottke had the belts. None of them were really interested in arranginf a fight, although Calzaghe did try. But he was happy enough fighting stiffs they were not on his level and taking in the money. Thats what it is all about.

Anyone with any kind of fan base will get star billing, either fighting stiffs or fighters coming up a weight division or on the slide. It stinks and is killing the sport.

[Len Cnut]

I urge you to watch Lucas Mathyyssee vs Ruslan Provodnikov Dies', i promise you wont be disappointed.

[ronaldo9]

I urge you to watch Lucas Mathyyssee vs Ruslan Provodnikov Dies', i promise you wont be disappointed.

And the added bonus of Terence Crawford in the opening bout. Going to be a good weekend.

[Len Cnut]

Yes actually, that one'll be fantastic, love Crawford. JCC Jnr is fighting too.

[ronaldo9]

There may not be a public sale for Mayweather-Pacquiao tickets: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-17/mayweather-pacquiao-fight-tickets-may-never-go-on-sale-to-public

Current secondary market prices:

"Tickets for the Las Vegas bout, which is projected to bring in at least $300 million total, are currently listed on TiqIQ for an average of $11,922. That’s more than triple the next closest fight the company has ever handled and 14 percent more than the final average for this year’s Super Bowl. The get-in price is $4,149 with ringside seats listed for as much as $67,600."

Just crazy numbers.

[Len Cnut]

If i had it to pay I'd pay it

[DieselDaisy]

Dearer even than a Rolling Stones ticket.

[Len Cnut]

I wouldn't pay the price of a portion of chips to go see those saggy old nipples slowly die onstage.

[RandallFlagg]

Matthysse vs Provodnikov is a classic in the making.

Floyd SR says Maidana would 'rape' Pacquiao, he must be pretty forgetful because I'm sure almost everyone who tried to walk Pacman down got busted up real bad.

Remember this guy who outweight him by miles and was the most feared guy around welterweight?

Sorry but Maidana gets thrashed by Manny same way Floyd 12-0's JMM. Styles.

[Len Cnut]

Matthysse vs Provodnikov is a classic in the making.

Floyd SR says Maidana would 'rape' Pacquiao, he must be pretty forgetful because I'm sure almost everyone who tried to walk Pacman down got busted up real bad.

Remember this guy who outweight him by miles and was the most feared guy around welterweight?

Sorry but Maidana gets thrashed by Manny same way Floyd 12-0's JMM. Styles.

What do you think Floyd will do against Manny? Not how but what. And why?

[RandallFlagg]

I think Floyd wins a 7-5 decision, if he throws combinations and takes intelligent risks to land the superior punches. Manny will outwork and outpoint him unless he does that, I doubt he can stop Mayweather, he rarely gets hit more than once with a shot, he's far too savvy to stand there and get blasted by a thousand fists. Bradley got dazed but never hurt for example, Marquez gets dropped in almost every fight. If he is too confident in his potshotting and defense he'll outwork him easily imo, he needs to take risks and a few shots, Pacquiao has no problem doing this and Floyd's power is decent but nothing Pacquiao will struggle with.

The real question is how does Floyd keep Pacquiao from outpointing him, pull counters, backing up and potshots won't do it. His reach is superior but he rarely needs to employ it, he has ridiculously long arms. He'll get there first but Pacquiao replies fucking fast with several angles. Floyd's combinations are beautiful when he's thrown them recently (Cotto, Maidana, Canelo) nothing like his old days but still great to watch and a hell of an offense. You throw combos against Pacquiao though you're asking for a reply.

Maidana showed Floyd needs those rope breaks with the movement he constantly employs, he'll need to trade with Pacman and who knows how that might end up but Manny has holes in his defense and can be predictable with his in and out flurries, Marquez had Pacquiao figured out in 4 rounds and Floyd learns in 2 rounds how to take a guy's best weapons away. The problem is, Manny also had Marquez figured out, people forget Pac is an intelligent fighter too, in a different way.