DieselDaisy Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Dazey, is this your revenge because you have to walk by a church and mosque everyday? ''Must, criticise religion on a GN'R board to put up with the agony of hearing Songs of Praise.'' There is a reason those buildings exist. They are buildings religious people go to, to pray to their respective gods. That predisposes that, you cannot worship god merely on a street corner in Manchester - or even in the home. Alright, you have a few nutters but you live in the historic conditions of the Church of England and you know how moderate and wet the Church of England is? Christianity is inoffensive and unassuming in Britain. It has made compromises, unfathomable just 100 years ago. What so gets your goat about Christianity then? How often does it infringe on your life personally, that you feel the need to make snide remarks at every turn on a gnr board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Because, if I were a betting man, I'd bet that deep down - or maybe not even so deep down - you know that your rationality has more than a touch of the dogmatism you see in others, and that's what accounts for the pathos you display around the subject. I don't want to go too far into telling you what's going on inside you. It's presumptuous as fuck. Still, it's what I think.Well, I can't really say much more than that you're wrong. My opinion on the matter is only rooted in worry and annoyance.For what its worth i believe you. From what I've gathered of you I think your distaste for it is strictly down to that which you say. Same with McLeod too, come to that, i don't think it's an internal issues thing with everyone. I'm glad you do. As I've said many times before - my main problem with religion is the way that it is passed on to kids who haven't had the chance to develop a rational mind yet. It's brainwashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Cuz the vicar told him cream cakes was sinful as a kid The pleasure factor y'know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Because, if I were a betting man, I'd bet that deep down - or maybe not even so deep down - you know that your rationality has more than a touch of the dogmatism you see in others, and that's what accounts for the pathos you display around the subject. I don't want to go too far into telling you what's going on inside you. It's presumptuous as fuck. Still, it's what I think.Well, I can't really say much more than that you're wrong. My opinion on the matter is only rooted in worry and annoyance.For what its worth i believe you. From what I've gathered of you I think your distaste for it is strictly down to that which you say. Same with McLeod too, come to that, i don't think it's an internal issues thing with everyone. I'm glad you do. As I've said many times before - my main problem with religion is the way that it is passed on to kids who haven't had the chance to develop a rational mind yet. It's brainwashing.This is not even true if you are a baptist, whereby they are expected to know and freely accept the tenements of the faith before communion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Because, if I were a betting man, I'd bet that deep down - or maybe not even so deep down - you know that your rationality has more than a touch of the dogmatism you see in others, and that's what accounts for the pathos you display around the subject. I don't want to go too far into telling you what's going on inside you. It's presumptuous as fuck. Still, it's what I think.Well, I can't really say much more than that you're wrong. My opinion on the matter is only rooted in worry and annoyance.For what its worth i believe you. From what I've gathered of you I think your distaste for it is strictly down to that which you say. Same with McLeod too, come to that, i don't think it's an internal issues thing with everyone. I'm glad you do. As I've said many times before - my main problem with religion is the way that it is passed on to kids who haven't had the chance to develop a rational mind yet. It's brainwashing.This is not even true if you are a baptist, whereby they are expected to know and freely accept the tenements of the faith before communion.Presenting something as fact to a child repeatedly from birth has a tremendous impact on that child's mind. In my book, it's brainwashing, despite the fact that it might not be intentional and malicious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Dazey, is this your revenge because you have to walk by a church and mosque everyday? ''Must, criticise religion on a GN'R board to put up with the agony of hearing Songs of Praise.'' There is a reason those buildings exist. They are buildings religious people go to, to pray to their respective gods. That predisposes that, you cannot worship god merely on a street corner in Manchester - or even in the home. Alright, you have a few nutters but you live in the historic conditions of the Church of England and you know how moderate and wet the Church of England is? Christianity is inoffensive and unassuming in Britain. It has made compromises, unfathomable just 100 years ago. What so gets your goat about Christianity then? How often does it infringe on your life personally, that you feel the need to make snide remarks at every turn on a gnr board?I'm not all that arsed about it from day to day. I was simply pointing out how it's nonsense to suggest that atheists were more obsessed with God than religious folk. If you want to know what gets on my tits about religion in general then it's simple. There's no evidence. Three words. Simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You do not need evidence when you have faith. Some people do not choose to live their life on empiricism. Also, there is no evidence that there is not a creator either. In fact it is flawed science to suggest an absence of intelligent design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You do not need evidence when you have faith. Some people do not choose to live their life on empiricism. Also, there is no evidence that there is not a creator either. In fact it is flawed science to suggest an absence of intelligent design.No it isn't. Don't talk such utter shite man! The point is that it's ALWAYS the duty of the person making the claim to provide the evidence. You can't ever prove that ANYTHING doesn't exist. That's simply not possible. Also, faith? Yeah, it's 2015 fella, faith just isn't an acceptable excuse any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 You do not need evidence when you have faith. Some people do not choose to live their life on empiricism. Also, there is no evidence that there is not a creator either. In fact it is flawed science to suggest an absence of intelligent design.Russell's teapot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You do not need evidence when you have faith. Some people do not choose to live their life on empiricism. Also, there is no evidence that there is not a creator either. In fact it is flawed science to suggest an absence of intelligent design.No it isn't. Don't talk such utter shite man! The point is that it's ALWAYS the duty of the person making the claim to provide the evidence. You can't ever prove that ANYTHING doesn't exist. That's simply not possible. Also, faith? Yeah, it's 2015 fella, faith just isn't an acceptable excuse any more.Who says? There is still, empirically, more religious people than atheists. You are in the minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You do not need evidence when you have faith. Some people do not choose to live their life on empiricism. Also, there is no evidence that there is not a creator either. In fact it is flawed science to suggest an absence of intelligent design.No it isn't. Don't talk such utter shite man! The point is that it's ALWAYS the duty of the person making the claim to provide the evidence. You can't ever prove that ANYTHING doesn't exist. That's simply not possible. Also, faith? Yeah, it's 2015 fella, faith just isn't an acceptable excuse any more. Who says? There is still, empirically, more religious people than atheists. You are in the minority.Because when you indoctrinate somebody to believe the unbelievable without question from birth it's very difficult to break that belief. It is happening though and will continue to do so more with each new generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The focus on justice is just your inability to see beyond yourself...and part of Gods eternal plan is to make it so you learn to see beyond yourself.What a load of horseshit. A HUGE load of fresh horseshit. The focus of justice is our ability to tell shitty from fair. Not a complicated concept to grasp. Which is exactly my point, whats shitty or fair...to you. It's not something best understood from a self involved perspective.You do not need evidence when you have faith. Some people do not choose to live their life on empiricism. Also, there is no evidence that there is not a creator either. In fact it is flawed science to suggest an absence of intelligent design.No it isn't. Don't talk such utter shite man! The point is that it's ALWAYS the duty of the person making the claim to provide the evidence. You can't ever prove that ANYTHING doesn't exist. That's simply not possible. Also, faith? Yeah, it's 2015 fella, faith just isn't an acceptable excuse any more.I dunno man, my atheism is down to what could be construed as 'faith'. I can't conclusively say there ain't a God, i can't prove it, i just feel it, every second i walk this earth, in everything i see and do i see no God, i do not feel the presence of a creator, every single last thing on this planet that i see to me points to there being no God. But i can't prove it as a mathematical certainty. But i know it, i just KNOW it, in my heart. Isn't that the same as religious people who have faith in God sort of? I can't prove it but I'm comfortable in my absolute faith that there isn't one so i don't really...feel compelled to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) I dunno man, my atheism is down to what could be construed as 'faith'. I can't conclusively say there ain't a God, i can't prove it, i just feel it, every second i walk this earth, in everything i see and do i see no God, i do not feel the presence of a creator, every single last thing on this planet that i see to me points to there being no God. But i can't prove it as a mathematical certainty. But i know it, i just KNOW it, in my heart. Isn't that the same as religious people who have faith in God sort of? I can't prove it but I'm comfortable in my absolute faith that there isn't one so i don't really...feel compelled to.My point is not that I have to prove that things don't exist but rather to simply believe in the things that I can prove. Does that make sense? If there's some evidence I'll believe in it and if there's not then I won't until I see some. Edited February 2, 2015 by Dazey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Can't argue with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The focus on justice is just your inability to see beyond yourself...and part of Gods eternal plan is to make it so you learn to see beyond yourself.What a load of horseshit. A HUGE load of fresh horseshit. The focus of justice is our ability to tell shitty from fair. Not a complicated concept to grasp. Which is exactly my point, whats shitty or fair...to you. It's not something best understood from a self involved perspective.There are certain things we can all agree on. Things that are unjust. It's not really being self involved, just having common sense. That's the problem with what you're saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Can't argue with that.To go a little further I just expect the same from somebody who is telling me to act or behave a certain way. If they're doing so because of a faith based belief that isn't good enough for me I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Can't argue with that.To go a little further I just expect the same from somebody who is telling me to act or behave a certain way. If they're doing so because of a faith based belief that isn't good enough for me I'm afraid.You can argue anything, though. At the end of the day most arguments come down to what people "feel" on some gut level or not. Which is more unjust, letting a poor man starve or taking a bit of money by force from the richer man to feed him? You'll see people founding their entire political worldview based on their feeling that one of those is worse than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Can't argue with that. To go a little further I just expect the same from somebody who is telling me to act or behave a certain way. If they're doing so because of a faith based belief that isn't good enough for me I'm afraid. You can argue anything, though. At the end of the day most arguments come down to what people "feel" on some gut level or not. Which is more unjust, letting a poor man starve or taking a bit of money by force from the richer man to feed him? You'll see people founding their entire political worldview based on their feeling that one of those is worse than the other.Yeah but both of the scenarios you mention can be rationalised without the need to invoke a higher power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Can't argue with that. To go a little further I just expect the same from somebody who is telling me to act or behave a certain way. If they're doing so because of a faith based belief that isn't good enough for me I'm afraid. You can argue anything, though. At the end of the day most arguments come down to what people "feel" on some gut level or not. Which is more unjust, letting a poor man starve or taking a bit of money by force from the richer man to feed him? You'll see people founding their entire political worldview based on their feeling that one of those is worse than the other.Yeah but both of the scenarios you mention can be rationalised without the need to invoke a higher power.True, but the higher power thing comes down to a "feeling" as well. Some will claim greater authority on a subject claiming knowledge divined from a Higher Being, others will claim greater authority based on reasoning that may be founded on emotions and feelings about the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Can't argue with that.To go a little further I just expect the same from somebody who is telling me to act or behave a certain way. If they're doing so because of a faith based belief that isn't good enough for me I'm afraid.Why shouldn't we kill (humans, because fuck other beings, amirite)? Is it a matter of right and wrong, or is it simple pragmatism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The focus on justice is just your inability to see beyond yourself...and part of Gods eternal plan is to make it so you learn to see beyond yourself.What a load of horseshit. A HUGE load of fresh horseshit. The focus of justice is our ability to tell shitty from fair. Not a complicated concept to grasp. Which is exactly my point, whats shitty or fair...to you. It's not something best understood from a self involved perspective.There are certain things we can all agree on. Things that are unjust. It's not really being self involved, just having common sense. That's the problem with what you're saying.I don't think you're understanding me but I'm not explaining myself well either, what I'm trying to say is the focus is on justice in a personal sense, how it relates to you as opposed to attempting to get ones head around the broader ideas here. If you persist in looking at it in that kinda way you'll get nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Can't argue with that. To go a little further I just expect the same from somebody who is telling me to act or behave a certain way. If they're doing so because of a faith based belief that isn't good enough for me I'm afraid.Why shouldn't we kill (humans, because fuck other beings, amirite)? Is it a matter of right and wrong, or is it simple pragmatism?So you're saying that without God we wouldn't know right from wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Some countries still have the death penalty. Killing isn't seen as objectively wrong by all humans. Certain types of killing are condoned by most countries (war, "collateral damage", etc.).The original commandment against killing was more about not killing someone from your tribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You do not need evidence when you have faith. Some people do not choose to live their life on empiricism. Also, there is no evidence that there is not a creator either. In fact it is flawed science to suggest an absence of intelligent design.No it isn't. Don't talk such utter shite man! The point is that it's ALWAYS the duty of the person making the claim to provide the evidence. You can't ever prove that ANYTHING doesn't exist. That's simply not possible. Also, faith? Yeah, it's 2015 fella, faith just isn't an acceptable excuse any more. Who says? There is still, empirically, more religious people than atheists. You are in the minority.Because when you indoctrinate somebody to believe the unbelievable without question from birth it's very difficult to break that belief. It is happening though and will continue to do so more with each new generation.Garbage. Christianity, Methodism, is proliferating in China, a historically Taoist/Buddhist country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The focus on justice is just your inability to see beyond yourself...and part of Gods eternal plan is to make it so you learn to see beyond yourself.What a load of horseshit. A HUGE load of fresh horseshit. The focus of justice is our ability to tell shitty from fair. Not a complicated concept to grasp. Which is exactly my point, whats shitty or fair...to you. It's not something best understood from a self involved perspective.There are certain things we can all agree on. Things that are unjust. It's not really being self involved, just having common sense. That's the problem with what you're saying.I don't think you're understanding me but I'm not explaining myself well either, what I'm trying to say is the focus is on justice in a personal sense, how it relates to you as opposed to attempting to get ones head around the broader ideas here. If you persist in looking at it in that kinda way you'll get nowhere. I understood you perfectly. I just don't agree with what you're saying is all. I don't believe the reason I call it injustice is cause I can't see beyond myself, or the big picture. I'm saying god doesn't exist, there is no plan, but there is injustice. It's a weak excuse.Why this horrid shit? cause that's god's plan and you can't see it cause you can't see beyond yourself, please improve yourself and open your eyes. It's dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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