Axls Rocket Queen Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Did you read the article? Apart from the title, he barely makes any mention of 'ranting/raving', so it's a little silly to dismiss the whole thing based on the use of a single term. Kind of a devaluing of what's being offered Edited February 2, 2015 by Axls Rocket Queen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 God? She's black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Did you read the article? Apart from the title, he barely makes any mention of 'ranting/raving', so it's a little silly to dismiss the whole thing based on the use of a single term. Kind of a devaluing of what's being offered I weren't talking about the article or nothing, just a random tangental thought about use of the word 'rant' in this day and age, weren't said as a criticism of whats written or anything, should've made that clearer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 'Amen to Stephen Fry's atheism: A gentle response to his recent ranthttp://24-7prayer.com/features/2445In fairness all that basically says is the good stuff is god's doing and bad stuff ............. well, isn't but he's suffering with you so it's okay. Still have to go back to the point that he has the ability to stop it all and doesn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axls Rocket Queen Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 'Amen to Stephen Fry's atheism: A gentle response to his recent ranthttp://24-7prayer.com/features/2445In fairness all that basically says is the good stuff is god's doing and bad stuff ............. well, isn't but he's suffering with you so it's okay. Still have to go back to the point that he has the ability to stop it all and doesn't.He also has the power to zap instant death on every person who is sinful/rebellious, but doesn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 'Amen to Stephen Fry's atheism: A gentle response to his recent ranthttp://24-7prayer.com/features/2445In fairness all that basically says is the good stuff is god's doing and bad stuff ............. well, isn't but he's suffering with you so it's okay. Still have to go back to the point that he has the ability to stop it all and doesn't.Because there's value in those things, they serve a purpose, to play devils advocate here, going 'oh why hasn't God made the world perfect?' is sort of missing the point of what life is. All this shit we're going through is what qualifies us for whats coming after, thats the idea. It's all part of a process that. What is revealed about the human animal when placed under certain pressures or constraints is where the value is at. For example for bravery to exist we require horrors in the face of which to be brave, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 'Amen to Stephen Fry's atheism: A gentle response to his recent ranthttp://24-7prayer.com/features/2445In fairness all that basically says is the good stuff is god's doing and bad stuff ............. well, isn't but he's suffering with you so it's okay. Still have to go back to the point that he has the ability to stop it all and doesn't. He also has the power to zap instant death on every person who is sinful/rebellious, but doesn't...But inflicting slow agonising death to those who aren't is totally fine eh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 'Amen to Stephen Fry's atheism: A gentle response to his recent ranthttp://24-7prayer.com/features/2445In fairness all that basically says is the good stuff is god's doing and bad stuff ............. well, isn't but he's suffering with you so it's okay. Still have to go back to the point that he has the ability to stop it all and doesn't. He also has the power to zap instant death on every person who is sinful/rebellious, but doesn't...But inflicting slow agonising death to those who aren't is totally fine eh? Do you think the world would be a better place if pain didnt exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 'Amen to Stephen Fry's atheism: A gentle response to his recent ranthttp://24-7prayer.com/features/2445In fairness all that basically says is the good stuff is god's doing and bad stuff ............. well, isn't but he's suffering with you so it's okay. Still have to go back to the point that he has the ability to stop it all and doesn't.Because there's value in those things, they serve a purpose, to play devils advocate here, going 'oh why hasn't God made the world perfect?' is sort of missing the point of what life is. All this shit we're going through is what qualifies us for whats coming after, thats the idea. It's all part of a process that. What is revealed about the human animal when placed under certain pressures or constraints is where the value is at. For example for bravery to exist we require horrors in the face of which to be brave, right?"WITHOUT EVIL THERE COULD BE NO GOOD SO IT MUST BE GOOD TO BE EVIL SOOOOOMMMMEEEETTTIIIIIIIMMMMEEEEESSS..." Also, why does there have to be an unjust "now" and a just "after"? Seems to me to be refusal to deny that everything is random and there is no great plan, things happen, we die, end of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) We worship God for the fundamental goodness, beauty and purpose of life. Looking into the face of a new-born baby, or listening to an exquisite piece of music, or gazing up at the stars open-mouthed, we know two things for sure: Firstly that these things somehow mean something they are not accidental. They have been purposed, intricately designed, made. Secondly, that they are entirely good; not the perverse creations of a malignant, sociopathic or schizophrenic imagination but a reflection of something or someone infinitely beautiful and benevolent.Another Auschwitz survivor wrote: It never occurred to me to question Gods doings while I was an inmate, although of course I understand that others did. If someone believes God is responsible for the death of six million because he didnt somehow do something to save them, hes got his thinking reversed. We owe God our lives for the few or many years we live, and we have the duty to worship him.So in summary:"Baby's smiles? Yep, I'm claiming that one. The Holocaust however? Not me your honour!!!!" Edited February 2, 2015 by Dazey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 "WITHOUT EVIL THERE COULD BE NO GOOD SO IT MUST BE GOOD TO BE EVIL SOOOOOMMMMEEEETTTIIIIIIIMMMMEEEEESSS..."Not exactly but you're getting there Also, why does there have to be an unjust "now" and a just "after"?The focus on justice is just your inability to see beyond yourself...and part of Gods eternal plan is to make it so you learn to see beyond yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) If there is a god *it* is a sadistic cunt. Edited February 2, 2015 by DR DOOM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 'Amen to Stephen Fry's atheism: A gentle response to his recent ranthttp://24-7prayer.com/features/2445In fairness all that basically says is the good stuff is god's doing and bad stuff ............. well, isn't but he's suffering with you so it's okay. Still have to go back to the point that he has the ability to stop it all and doesn't.He also has the power to zap instant death on every person who is sinful/rebellious, but doesn't...But if he has the ability to stop misery but decides to not do it, then he is EXACTLY the god described by Stephen Fry.'Amen to Stephen Fry's atheism: A gentle response to his recent ranthttp://24-7prayer.com/features/2445In fairness all that basically says is the good stuff is god's doing and bad stuff ............. well, isn't but he's suffering with you so it's okay. Still have to go back to the point that he has the ability to stop it all and doesn't.Because there's value in those things, they serve a purpose, to play devils advocate here, going 'oh why hasn't God made the world perfect?' is sort of missing the point of what life is. All this shit we're going through is what qualifies us for whats coming after, thats the idea. It's all part of a process that. What is revealed about the human animal when placed under certain pressures or constraints is where the value is at. For example for bravery to exist we require horrors in the face of which to be brave, right?Bone cancer in children prepares them for afterlife so god is still good and merciful? Is that what you are saying? We need to have kids dying agonizing deaths because that makes us reveal our good sides? What utter bollocks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 So in summary:"Baby's smiles? Yep, I'm claiming that one. The Holocaust however? Not me your honour!!!!" the existence of evil is usually explained by the theological concept of free will, but it's kind of hard to get it given the fact that we didn't choose to be born in the first place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 So in summary:"Baby's smiles? Yep, I'm claiming that one. The Holocaust however? Not me your honour!!!!" the existence of evil is usually explained by the theological concept of free will, but it's kind of hard to get it given the fact that we didn't choose to be born in the first placeFree will when we do bad stuff but god's grand plan when we do good. Ah, righty. Gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Also, why does there have to be an unjust "now" and a just "after"?The focus on justice is just your inability to see beyond yourself...and part of Gods eternal plan is to make it so you learn to see beyond yourself.Justice seems to be a big part of religion, why else the Hell for sinners and Heaven for saints? Are you saying you know God's eternal plan? One thing that bugged me in Islamic Studies was the verse or hadith or whatever about Allah commanding Muhammad to make his people pray to Him 50 times a day, and then Muhammad saying no, and then Muhammad eventually negotiated it down to 5 times a day. Obviously this was supposed to show how kind Allah was by not making us prostrate to him for most of our waking hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The anti-religion refrain is probably the most mean spirited and arrogant presence on the forum. And I like most of you atheists, but that's just the truth. Have at it. I won't interfere anymore. Just thought that should be put out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 'Amen to Stephen Fry's atheism: A gentle response to his recent ranthttp://24-7prayer.com/features/2445In fairness all that basically says is the good stuff is god's doing and bad stuff ............. well, isn't but he's suffering with you so it's okay. Still have to go back to the point that he has the ability to stop it all and doesn't. He also has the power to zap instant death on every person who is sinful/rebellious, but doesn't...But inflicting slow agonising death to those who aren't is totally fine eh? Do you think the world would be a better place if pain didnt exist?It definitely would. The idea that there would be no happiness and joy without pain and misery is a silly myth designed to comfort us. I don't need to have my chindren die from bone cancer to appreciate happiness in my life. I don't need discomfort, pain and misery to be in comfort, happy and content. But this is not the point, even IF we had this pain/joy duality, god would still be able to create a world where we DIDN'T need pain to be happy and full of joy, because, after all, he is an omnipotent entity. It is just a matter of wiring our brains differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK SUBS Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 That was one of his poorest interviews ive seen -- He was being over dramatic imo to make a point.BUT...... I've met Stephen Fry at a time in my life which wasn't the greatest and I can honestly say he's one of the most amazing personalities ive ever met (and tryst me, I've met my fair share!). Great, great man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 So in summary:"Baby's smiles? Yep, I'm claiming that one. The Holocaust however? Not me your honour!!!!" the existence of evil is usually explained by the theological concept of free will, but it's kind of hard to get it given the fact that we didn't choose to be born in the first placeIt is flawed argument because humans are already born with preferences that gives us a set of available behaviours. In other words, we already have a "limited free will" in the sense that there are mnay things we don't do because we have no desire to do it. An omnipotent god could EASILY have created us with slight changes to these preferences that would suppress any amoral acts and stimulate all that is good -- leading us to be much as we are today just better.But now we are only looking at gods responsibiloty for creating us with tendencies towards doing bad things. He shoudl also equally be held responsible for putting us on a planet that is at times incredible hostile to us and which leads to millions dying from famine, tsunamis, malaria, diseases, earthquakes, maulings by bears, etc.The anti-religion refrain is probably the most mean spirited and arrogant presence on the forum. And I like most of you atheists, but that's just the truth. Have at it. I won't interfere anymore. Just thought that should be put out there.Oh no. Please say it ain't so. Does this mean you won't elaborate on your cryptic comment about humanism being "just as retarded as any religion"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You just prove my point all the time. It's awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 So in summary:"Baby's smiles? Yep, I'm claiming that one. The Holocaust however? Not me your honour!!!!" the existence of evil is usually explained by the theological concept of free will, but it's kind of hard to get it given the fact that we didn't choose to be born in the first placeIt is flawed argument because humans are already born with preferences that gives us a set of available behaviours. In other words, we already have a "limited free will" in the sense that there are mnay things we don't do because we have no desire to do it. An omnipotent god could EASILY have created us with slight changes to these preferences that would suppress any amoral acts and stimulate all that is good -- leading us to be much as we are today just better.But now we are only looking at gods responsibiloty for creating us with tendencies towards doing bad things. He shoudl also equally be held responsible for putting us on a planet that is at times incredible hostile to us and which leads to millions dying from famine, tsunamis, malaria, diseases, earthquakes, maulings by bears, etc.yes, this is what i was trying to say - there are things like physiology, genetics, environment, etc, and they seem to determine our behavior more than anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 An omnipotent god could create us as large babies floating in a warm oozing space-sea with huge pleasure centers that are constantly activated through god's close presence. Because he is fucking god. He could do that. Hell, what I described might even be what afterlife is. Which makes me think, why did he even create life on earth if the true price is to live in his embracing fold in the afterlife? Why not discard the messy earth business and just take us to the warmth of bopping around in His Sea immediately? This can only mean that if god exists he is an asshole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 but still 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 So in summary:"Baby's smiles? Yep, I'm claiming that one. The Holocaust however? Not me your honour!!!!" the existence of evil is usually explained by the theological concept of free will, but it's kind of hard to get it given the fact that we didn't choose to be born in the first placeIt is flawed argument because humans are already born with preferences that gives us a set of available behaviours. In other words, we already have a "limited free will" in the sense that there are mnay things we don't do because we have no desire to do it. An omnipotent god could EASILY have created us with slight changes to these preferences that would suppress any amoral acts and stimulate all that is good -- leading us to be much as we are today just better.But now we are only looking at gods responsibiloty for creating us with tendencies towards doing bad things. He shoudl also equally be held responsible for putting us on a planet that is at times incredible hostile to us and which leads to millions dying from famine, tsunamis, malaria, diseases, earthquakes, maulings by bears, etc.yes, this is what i was trying to say - there are things like physiology, genetics, environment, etc, and they seem to determine our behavior more than anything elseYes, exactly. I typically don't do things that gives me pain. An omnipotent god could just have hardwired us in such a way that hurting others would be very painful. Like Compassion 2.0 (because it already creates discomfort in most human beings). Would it set limits to the different behaviours we would exhibit? Sure. But we already have vast limitations to our behaviours and this would just be a minor tweak, really. If someone feel that losing the prevalence for asshole behaviour would be too big of a limitation on us, which woud suddenly tip us into the "no free will" territory (hah), then he could easily have added in a host of additional behaviour that we aren't really prone of doing today so that the total amount of available behaviours would be teh same or larger. We just wouldn't fucking kill, hurt and rape eachother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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