Second Shooting In Denmark.

[SoulMonster]

the thing is that people in general tend to lie. polls and surveys are no exception. they do it for variety of reasons.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-29206289

Even if you account for some dishonesty, which you always should in polls - depending upon the topic -- the majority of muslims still won't approve of violence against civilians The amount of dishonesty typical for these kinds of polls and the questions asked simply don't add up to the level where you can say that the most muslims are in favour of violence against civilians, which is what SS is claiming.

Unless....of course, you believe that all muslims in the world are taking part in some sinister plot to hide their vile schemes.

[netcat]

the thing is that people in general tend to lie. polls and surveys are no exception. they do it for variety of reasons.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-29206289

Even if you account for some dishonesty, which you always should in polls - depending upon the topic -- the majority of muslims still won't approve of violence against civilians The amount of dishonesty typical for these kinds of polls and the questions asked simply don't add up to the level where you can say that the most muslims are in favour of violence against civilians, which is what SS is claiming.

Unless....of course, you believe that all muslims in the world are taking part in some sinister plot to hide their vile schemes.

i wasn't trying to have a go at Muslims. on the contrary i was trying to stress out that it's ridiculous to specifically accuse them of lying, like any other group of people is always honest and truthful

[SoulMonster]

Oh yeah, I see it now. Well, it was a good point from you.

[MB.]

In my stepson's class most muslim boys (40% of the class) were supporting and defending the attack on Charlie Hebdo openly. It's obvious there goes something wrong. On the other hand, the muslim girls are doing just fine and have better results on school and probably better opportunities. Lots of the girls are studying on the university and are way ahead of the boys. Denying lots of Western countries have a problem dealing with muslim immigrants (teen)boys is just stupid and dangerous. We have to talk with them, try to help there. What causes it? How can we do better, how can we make them want more and have a good future in our countries. We should look at that. Denying the problems only makes it worse. It drives them straight into the arms of extremists or criminal organisations.

I know what I am talking about. I am not just looking from the outside. I lived in those neighberhoods, are friends with boys who were once like that. I have female muslim friends who indeed did go to the university, they also say the same thing as I do. Something needs to be done, those kids need help. There is even racism between immigrants btw and there is certainly a lot of racism in the countries. That is for a reason, and that we should solve. Have a dialogue or discussion about it. Shutting down a discussion by shouting 'racist' is not helping one bit, which this discussion is prove of. It's exactly what has been going on way too long, what are goverments did for years, it's part of the problem. Both sides should be brought closer together. There should be more understanding to eachother, which can only be done by talking about it and talking to eachother. What can we all do to make it better for everybody, but certainly for those teenboys who are funerable for these kind of things.

[Satanisk_Slakt]

The only solution to the problem is to stop immigration from certain countries and kick out those that are potential threats to us.

[Len Cnut]

The way you solve a problem is by first identifying it. The problem is Islamist terror. First you have to stop, look at the causes of it, where it comes from and decide if there is anything you can do from where you're at to make things better. Where does it come from, do these people have any legitimate gripe at all or are they all just nutcases?

Israel and Palestine is a big thing for them, something they make a point of...is there anything we can do in regards to that? Is there anything wrong we've been doing in regards to that that has led to where we're at?

Look at the military occupation of countries like Iraq and Afghanistan...take a look at exactly what has been done to those people and then ask yourself why people might be responding in violent ways?

MB, you make a point of all these young boys thinking this particular way about the Charlie Hebdo thing, do you think it's cuz they're all insane really? Or do you think maybe they assess a proposition and then respond based on that? The Charlie Hebdo attack happened and a big hoopla happens about freedom of expression and it being compromised. So little Dutch muslim kid sits and considers the idea the burqa is banned in France. We're talking about freedom of expression here right? What message do you think that sends the little kid? I'll tell ya, it sends the little kid the message that it's freedom of expression for THEM. There's a distinct message to that and that message is that you, by virtue of being a muslim, are not as important as non-muslims because your freedom of expression is hindered by way of legislation, it's the LAW that girls from your faith can't fulfill their religious practises. How would you feel about an attack against that mentality then?

Turn on the news EVERY day and Muslims are getting splattered, across the fuckin' world. Go about in your own country, or the one you're in anyway, and all you hear is 'well if they don't like our traditions then they can fuck off' when no fuckers said anything about getting rid of anyone elses traditions. To be spoken about like an 'issue' everywhere you fuckin' go, to have people that have absolutely no clue whatsoever about what life is like in the areas of your background and to listen to them waffle on ad infinitum, with suggestions from 'we should nuke them!' to bullshit diatribes cuz they've read whatever NY Times bestseller bullshit giving the lowdown on the war on terror, to having all and sundry banging on about 'well the muslim community should say this' or 'the muslim community should say that', what do you expect them to feel like?

Tally up how many muslims have been killed because of bullshit wars then tally up how many of your lot have been killed by Islamic terror organisations. Is wholesale murder, torture and brutuality acceptable because it's done under the auspices of a government instead of a ragtag bunch of misguided nutcases? I don't believe it is.

You'll NEVER solve this problem, not ever because it's not in anyone important enoughs interest to solve the problem. It's about money and it's about governments profiteering for the consolidation of power for the next 20 to 30 years, it's about manuevring and positioning oneself to maintain control for the future and the rise of a bunch of ignorant bloodthirsty muslims who aren't clever enough (or otherwise equipped) to respond to attack on them in any other way than terrorism and thereby colouring themselves as the bad guys (and rightly so to a point) is JUUUUST whats needed to keep all the pieces on the right place of the chessboard, quite frankly it's a God send for those that know how to use shit like that.

And all these debates and discussions on a grassroots level by people like me and you about what needs to be done about Islam etc etc etc are all a bit of a cocksuck. They mean literally nothing. There is absolutely zero possibility, even if every Islamic terror organisation banded together, pooled strength and went balls out, that they could really make any serious bid to take over or effect anything, it is literally laughable as a notion that in this day and age of military power and nuclear arms and all this shit, it's a joke quite frankly, in the words of Malcolm McLaren 'half these wankers couldn't get themselves organised to buy a cup of coffee'.

And y'know what else? It ain't in your interest to address these problems really. Or mine. Because to do so is to pick at the fabric of our society, the way our governments and politicians work and the things they do in our name to uphold our society the way it is. The harsh truth is we enjoy and love our way of life enough that why would we care to change our shit just cuz a bunch of brown people are getting fucked on the other side of the world with it? We get way too much out of our 5,000 cable channels and football teams and movies and nice clothes and creature comforts to REALLY care.

I mean its a proposition worth considering, if the people in charge of our shit are wrong and killing people abroad unjustly for the sake of maintaining our society as it is, do we care enough about those other people to really go all out against our government to stop that shit? The answer to that is no, we don't. I might sit and sigh at the odd news report or get the hump over some Daily Mail article but the truth is i care too much about my ability to catch Arsenal on the weekend or watch Showtime Sports PPV with the latest big fight to really give a fuck about any of that stuff.

All this high minded talk about morality and justice and human rights...it's all bullshit. Total bullshit. At the root of it all is money and none of us, not us, not our governments, none of us really give a shit about anything other than the maintaining of our way of life, regardless of whether its based on injustice to some invisible (to us) masses somewhere on the other side of the world.

This problem is just the continuation of bogeyman syndrome, there's always one, the shit that the governments use to pass legislations and ennact initiatives that serve their interests. It's been commies, it's been the IRA, it's been religions, its been political ideology and today and probably for the next few decades its gonna be 'Islamism'.

Now this isn't to say that there isn't an issue with Islamic terror because there is...and it's being exacerbated from both sides. And it's not a construct of our governments but it is cynically and strategically manipulated for our benefit and it will continue to be. Really, these hell for leather scripture era religious nuts are a God send for governments, give em a cause and they'll fight to death alongside you, just like they did in Afghanistan against Russians when they were our widdle buddies. But then poke em yourself and they'll turn on you and give you the perfect foil from where to blag your population into a siege mentality and then justify yourself flying and floating across the world and re-defining imperialism for the 21st Century.

[Lithium]

When it comes to apostasy, I think Christianity is a far better religion. The idea of being punished (or even killed) for choosing to leave a religion that was shoved down your throat from birth is insanely terrifying to me.

[magisme]

And this is what our allies in the region do.

A Muslim Brotherhood leader in Jordan has been sentenced to 18 months in prison for criticising the United Arab Emirates.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31479650

[netcat]

correct me if im wrong, but as i understand it, so-called anti-burqua law applies not only to burqas but at any covering of the face in a public place, including balaclavas, hoods and helmets etc. and this law was designed not to take away someone's freedom of expression but mostly for the reasons of public safety. also i can't be sure, because where i live we have less than 1% of Muslims population, but judging from MB's post most girls don't mind not wearing burquas and it doesn't make them feel less important. based on which i could draw a conclusion that in many cases women are forced to cover their faces by their families and religion.

[Dazey]

correct me if im wrong, but as i understand it, so-called anti-burqua law applies not only to burqas but at any covering of the face in a public place, including balaclavas, hoods and helmets etc. and this law was designed not to take away someone's freedom of expression but mostly for the reasons of public safety. also i can't be sure, because where i live we have less than 1% of Muslims population, but judging from MB's post most girls don't mind not wearing burquas and it doesn't make them feel less important. based on which i could draw a conclusion that in many cases women are forced to cover their faces by their families and religion.

If that's the case then the poor cow gets fucked even worse because now she can't even leave the house. Edited February 16, 2015 by Dazey

[UK SUBS]

The way you solve a problem is by first identifying it. The problem is Islamist terror. First you have to stop, look at the causes of it, where it comes from and decide if there is anything you can do from where you're at to make things better. Where does it come from, do these people have any legitimate gripe at all or are they all just nutcases?

Israel and Palestine is a big thing for them, something they make a point of...is there anything we can do in regards to that? Is there anything wrong we've been doing in regards to that that has led to where we're at?

Look at the military occupation of countries like Iraq and Afghanistan...take a look at exactly what has been done to those people and then ask yourself why people might be responding in violent ways?

MB, you make a point of all these young boys thinking this particular way about the Charlie Hebdo thing, do you think it's cuz they're all insane really? Or do you think maybe they assess a proposition and then respond based on that? The Charlie Hebdo attack happened and a big hoopla happens about freedom of expression and it being compromised. So little Dutch muslim kid sits and considers the idea the burqa is banned in France. We're talking about freedom of expression here right? What message do you think that sends the little kid? I'll tell ya, it sends the little kid the message that it's freedom of expression for THEM. There's a distinct message to that and that message is that you, by virtue of being a muslim, are not as important as non-muslims because your freedom of expression is hindered by way of legislation, it's the LAW that girls from your faith can't fulfill their religious practises. How would you feel about an attack against that mentality then?

Turn on the news EVERY day and Muslims are getting splattered, across the fuckin' world. Go about in your own country, or the one you're in anyway, and all you hear is 'well if they don't like our traditions then they can fuck off' when no fuckers said anything about getting rid of anyone elses traditions. To be spoken about like an 'issue' everywhere you fuckin' go, to have people that have absolutely no clue whatsoever about what life is like in the areas of your background and to listen to them waffle on ad infinitum, with suggestions from 'we should nuke them!' to bullshit diatribes cuz they've read whatever NY Times bestseller bullshit giving the lowdown on the war on terror, to having all and sundry banging on about 'well the muslim community should say this' or 'the muslim community should say that', what do you expect them to feel like?

Tally up how many muslims have been killed because of bullshit wars then tally up how many of your lot have been killed by Islamic terror organisations. Is wholesale murder, torture and brutuality acceptable because it's done under the auspices of a government instead of a ragtag bunch of misguided nutcases? I don't believe it is.

You'll NEVER solve this problem, not ever because it's not in anyone important enoughs interest to solve the problem. It's about money and it's about governments profiteering for the consolidation of power for the next 20 to 30 years, it's about manuevring and positioning oneself to maintain control for the future and the rise of a bunch of ignorant bloodthirsty muslims who aren't clever enough (or otherwise equipped) to respond to attack on them in any other way than terrorism and thereby colouring themselves as the bad guys (and rightly so to a point) is JUUUUST whats needed to keep all the pieces on the right place of the chessboard, quite frankly it's a God send for those that know how to use shit like that.

And all these debates and discussions on a grassroots level by people like me and you about what needs to be done about Islam etc etc etc are all a bit of a cocksuck. They mean literally nothing. There is absolutely zero possibility, even if every Islamic terror organisation banded together, pooled strength and went balls out, that they could really make any serious bid to take over or effect anything, it is literally laughable as a notion that in this day and age of military power and nuclear arms and all this shit, it's a joke quite frankly, in the words of Malcolm McLaren 'half these wankers couldn't get themselves organised to buy a cup of coffee'.

And y'know what else? It ain't in your interest to address these problems really. Or mine. Because to do so is to pick at the fabric of our society, the way our governments and politicians work and the things they do in our name to uphold our society the way it is. The harsh truth is we enjoy and love our way of life enough that why would we care to change our shit just cuz a bunch of brown people are getting fucked on the other side of the world with it? We get way too much out of our 5,000 cable channels and football teams and movies and nice clothes and creature comforts to REALLY care.

I mean its a proposition worth considering, if the people in charge of our shit are wrong and killing people abroad unjustly for the sake of maintaining our society as it is, do we care enough about those other people to really go all out against our government to stop that shit? The answer to that is no, we don't. I might sit and sigh at the odd news report or get the hump over some Daily Mail article but the truth is i care too much about my ability to catch Arsenal on the weekend or watch Showtime Sports PPV with the latest big fight to really give a fuck about any of that stuff.

All this high minded talk about morality and justice and human rights...it's all bullshit. Total bullshit. At the root of it all is money and none of us, not us, not our governments, none of us really give a shit about anything other than the maintaining of our way of life, regardless of whether its based on injustice to some invisible (to us) masses somewhere on the other side of the world.

This problem is just the continuation of bogeyman syndrome, there's always one, the shit that the governments use to pass legislations and ennact initiatives that serve their interests. It's been commies, it's been the IRA, it's been religions, its been political ideology and today and probably for the next few decades its gonna be 'Islamism'.

Now this isn't to say that there isn't an issue with Islamic terror because there is...and it's being exacerbated from both sides. And it's not a construct of our governments but it is cynically and strategically manipulated for our benefit and it will continue to be. Really, these hell for leather scripture era religious nuts are a God send for governments, give em a cause and they'll fight to death alongside you, just like they did in Afghanistan against Russians when they were our widdle buddies. But then poke em yourself and they'll turn on you and give you the perfect foil from where to blag your population into a siege mentality and then justify yourself flying and floating across the world and re-defining imperialism for the 21st Century.

Wow great post.

I'd like it but there's was too much I didn't agree with. But, really great detailed post that I enjoyed reading

[netcat]

correct me if im wrong, but as i understand it, so-called anti-burqua law applies not only to burqas but at any covering of the face in a public place, including balaclavas, hoods and helmets etc. and this law was designed not to take away someone's freedom of expression but mostly for the reasons of public safety. also i can't be sure, because where i live we have less than 1% of Muslims population, but judging from MB's post most girls don't mind not wearing burquas and it doesn't make them feel less important. based on which i could draw a conclusion that in many cases women are forced to cover their faces by their families and religion.

If that's the case then the poor cow gets fucked even worse because now she can't even leave the house.

i thought it's illegal to take hostages?

[Satanisk_Slakt]

I wish we'd ban burqas and niqabs as well. They stand for an attitude towards women we don't have here and should be not be tolerated.

[Dazey]

correct me if im wrong, but as i understand it, so-called anti-burqua law applies not only to burqas but at any covering of the face in a public place, including balaclavas, hoods and helmets etc. and this law was designed not to take away someone's freedom of expression but mostly for the reasons of public safety. also i can't be sure, because where i live we have less than 1% of Muslims population, but judging from MB's post most girls don't mind not wearing burquas and it doesn't make them feel less important. based on which i could draw a conclusion that in many cases women are forced to cover their faces by their families and religion.

If that's the case then the poor cow gets fucked even worse because now she can't even leave the house.

i thought it's illegal to take hostages?

I'm sure it's also illegal to force somebody into wearing something that they don't want to wear but if one is true then surely the other is also?

[netcat]

I'm sure it's also illegal to force somebody into wearing something that they don't want to wear

how'd you explain child beauty pageants then

[Len Cnut]

correct me if im wrong, but as i understand it, so-called anti-burqua law applies not only to burqas but at any covering of the face in a public place, including balaclavas, hoods and helmets etc. and this law was designed not to take away someone's freedom of expression but mostly for the reasons of public safety. also i can't be sure, because where i live we have less than 1% of Muslims population, but judging from MB's post most girls don't mind not wearing burquas and it doesn't make them feel less important. based on which i could draw a conclusion that in many cases women are forced to cover their faces by their families and religion.

The vast majority of those protesting that shit is burqa wearing muslim girls though. This is something that one would do well to actually speak to muslim girls and ask them about, believe it or not it is a choice of a great many. Of course there are instances of girls who find it oppressive but it is far from the rule, especially in the west. In fact, it's the exception.

Quite frankly there's often a degree of sexism at play here too, the poor lost waif muslim girls without the power or ability to assert themselves, fuck me, you should see most middle aged Muslim matriachs i know, you'd soon change your tune on that count, especially if there was a rolling pin in arms reach

Edited February 16, 2015 by Len B'stard

[MB.]

correct me if im wrong, but as i understand it, so-called anti-burqua law applies not only to burqas but at any covering of the face in a public place, including balaclavas, hoods and helmets etc. and this law was designed not to take away someone's freedom of expression but mostly for the reasons of public safety. also i can't be sure, because where i live we have less than 1% of Muslims population, but judging from MB's post most girls don't mind not wearing burquas and it doesn't make them feel less important. based on which i could draw a conclusion that in many cases women are forced to cover their faces by their families and religion.

I never said something about burquas? I just said muslim girls are doing better, when it comes to education, then boys in my country.

I think your answer is great Len and thank you for that. However just as Subs, I disagree with too many stuff to like it. But it was nice reading your point of view.

[netcat]

correct me if im wrong, but as i understand it, so-called anti-burqua law applies not only to burqas but at any covering of the face in a public place, including balaclavas, hoods and helmets etc. and this law was designed not to take away someone's freedom of expression but mostly for the reasons of public safety. also i can't be sure, because where i live we have less than 1% of Muslims population, but judging from MB's post most girls don't mind not wearing burquas and it doesn't make them feel less important. based on which i could draw a conclusion that in many cases women are forced to cover their faces by their families and religion.

I never said something about burquas? I just said muslim girls are doing better, when it comes to education, then boys in my country.

I think your answer is great Len and thank you for that. However just as Subs, I disagree with too many stuff to like it. But it was nice reading your point of view.

no you didn't say anything about burqas but what i got from your post is that Muslim girls are more socially adjusted than boys, based on which i decided that most of them are not offended by French anti-face-covering law and don't feel like it's an attack on their freedom of expression (and this is in reference to Len's post, that was very interesting to read i agree)

Edited February 16, 2015 by netcat

[T.wa.T]

After the attacks in France, the President of Egypt gathered all of his countries high clerics and imams. He asked them to consider making some changes to the way they teach Islam and to reform. It was reported in the US for 2~3 days, and then went away.

Either way, its gonna take a long time for change and acceptance to set in. Fighting wars and shooting or blowing the place up because you don't agree with another human beings faith and beliefs is mindless and a war that will never end.

Lol everything is reported in the US for 2-3 days and forgotten.

For the most part that's right. I was mainly making a point that a president from a Muslim country did stand up and renounce the radicals who are destroying their faith. Its a shame that others haven't followed suit to the degree that the media will pick up on it.

[bran]

After the attacks in France, the President of Egypt gathered all of his countries high clerics and imams. He asked them to consider making some changes to the way they teach Islam and to reform. It was reported in the US for 2~3 days, and then went away.

Either way, its gonna take a long time for change and acceptance to set in. Fighting wars and shooting or blowing the place up because you don't agree with another human beings faith and beliefs is mindless and a war that will never end.

Lol everything is reported in the US for 2-3 days and forgotten.

For the most part that's right. I was mainly making a point that a president from a Muslim country did stand up and renounce the radicals who are destroying their faith. Its a shame that others haven't followed suit to the degree that the media will pick up on it.

if the US media did that where would they fit in a story about kim kardashians ass?

[T.wa.T]

After the attacks in France, the President of Egypt gathered all of his countries high clerics and imams. He asked them to consider making some changes to the way they teach Islam and to reform. It was reported in the US for 2~3 days, and then went away.

Either way, its gonna take a long time for change and acceptance to set in. Fighting wars and shooting or blowing the place up because you don't agree with another human beings faith and beliefs is mindless and a war that will never end.

Lol everything is reported in the US for 2-3 days and forgotten.

For the most part that's right. I was mainly making a point that a president from a Muslim country did stand up and renounce the radicals who are destroying their faith. Its a shame that others haven't followed suit to the degree that the media will pick up on it.

if the US media did that where would they fit in a story about kim kardashians ass?

Id guess sometime after the weather and before the first commercial about erectile dysfunction...lol.

[Satanisk_Slakt]

Poor Muslims that are so oppressed by the countries they MOVED to. If it's not good enough for them, move back, we would not miss you one bit. Also, ever heard the expression "When in Rome, do as the Romans"? If I moved somewhere I'd respect their customs and traditions and I would do my best to assimilate, because I would know that I was a guest in their country.

[Len Cnut]

Poor Muslims that are so oppressed by the countries they MOVED to.

How is the concept of moving somewhere somehow incongruous with the concept of oppression? Surely thats often why people move.

If it's not good enough for them, move back, we would not miss you one bit.

Why do you have trouble speaking for yourself in these situations and start representing an invisible 'we'?

Also, ever heard the expression "When in Rome, do as the Romans"?

Have you ever heard the saving 'were it not for guests all houses would be graves?"

If I moved somewhere I'd respect their customs and traditions and I would do my best to assimilate, because I would know that I was a guest in their country.

How very in keeping with the concept of freedom of expression, thats very commendable, well done, i see how this freedom of expression thing works now. Freedom to do as we do or fuck off.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Len B'stard

[grouse]

And Len just showed us the exact thing that is wrong with the mindset of hooray for tolerances, good job on that.

[Len Cnut]

Yeah, it's always a tough proposition having to treat other people like human beings eh?