Second Shooting In Denmark.

[Lio]

I agree, there is a lot in the quran where you can find justification for these kind of actions. (I want to say as well, that the old testement of the bible is pretty brutal as well). Most muslims living in the West are aware of the fact in which time period it was written though and ofcourse they condemn these kind of shootings. However in my country a very large percentage of young muslim boys/teens are actually understanding these shootings and do think it's right. This is something we should worry about and we do need to adress this. Denying this is dangerous and not helping anybody. We need to find a way to live better together. To help those kids feel welcome and to make them see, they do have a future here.

I disagree that muslims should say 'sorry' or something. Obviously most do not support these actions. To let them say 'sorry' for something they don't have anything to do with, is not right imo.

Completely agree, well said

[Len Cnut]

"Kill the infidels" is God's words and their absolute law.

It doesn't say kill the infidels as a proclamation to all Muslims in the world for eternity, that was a verse speaking to an army of muslims in regards to the army they were fighting against so that a nation of 5,000 odd people could survive and actually grow. The fact that i have informed you of this fact quite a few times and just about every other quote from the Qu'ran that you've pulled out of your arse completely out of context. Can you remember what your response was? "i don't care, i'm not interested in having a discussion about it" and "i don't actually care that much". Now can you see why a muslim person might respond to that by punching you square in the mouth? Because what you effectively do is, attack something and then when people give you the skinny behind the whole deal you tell them you ain't interested in it.

So whats the message there do you think? It's basically that i don't care what the truth is, i just have a problem with muslims per se. Now at that point any group of people, whether it be muslims, danes, black, white, whatever, when you make that distinction, that you're not interested in the reality you just wanna having a go at them for a laugh well after that people are just gonna take the piss out of you back, from every angle. Because you just don't care about the reality of it.

And you're the guy that wants debate?

Now further compound that with your delightful tendency to constantly take the piss out of anyone whoose black for any reason you can think of, in a really ignorant 1940s kinda way, how do you expect that anyones gonna see anything coming out of your mouth as absolute bollocks? You made a list of quotes from Qu'ran and Hadith the other day claiming doctrine of Islam and almost half of them weren't applicable. Because see if you had anything like a brain in your head you'd realise how the shit ain't true. Cuz you'd look em up. But you don't care to, right? You talk about debate and discussion... but you can't fuckin' do it You just post bullshit and then try to act clever afterwards or just ignore it when the reality is pointed out.

And you're the guy that wants debate?

Like that time when you posted that picture of loads of little muslim girls at this wedding saying it was a mass wedding of 11 year old girls getting married to some Palestinian bloke...when in reality someone had just taken some snaps from a muslim wedding of all these little 9 yr old girls and wrote a bullshit article around it. And whats stupid is you believed it. You're actually that ignorant and from remote a shithole of Europe and you're so seperated from the real world and whats actually going on that you took that shit for real. Do you what an immensely dangerous kind of stupid people like you are? Cuz you actually think you're right. You piss and moan and jump up and down over 'the kids the kids the kids' and yet it never once occured to you that...hang on, whoever made this article is a guy who saw pictures of little girls at a muslim wedding and his immediate thought was 'sex! i know, i'll write an article bout how all these little girls are fuckin'!'. And thats like two instances of the scores and scores of times you've posted some bullshit like that. And each time you are completely disinterested in any evidence to the contrary. Thats like me going outside a swedish pre-school, filming the girls and going 'look, these are all the little honeys Satanisk has got lined up to suck his dick tonight'...what kind of human being would that make me d'ya think?

And you're the guy that wants debate?

My favorite one of yours though was 'oh oh, i discovered something called Tokia and it means muslims can lie to infidels to get there way, OMG, muslimes are evil!!!!' and i very gentle explained to you that tokia is a provision made in Islamic doctrine that says that, if your life is in danger, i.e. you might die in the next 5 mins you are permitted within Islam to deny you are a muslim to save your life, like a captured lone soldier or that kind of thing'. Can you remember what your response was?

And you're the guy that wants debate?

Thats the kind of bullshit oppertunist weasel shit you come from. You and people of your mentality. I'd LOVE to be able to sit here and say you were just someone who didn't get things or whatever but that shit ain't the truth and i know that because what else do you say about someone that will freely attack, refuses to justify and refuses to entertain CLEAR ACTUAL EVIDENCE to the contrary of what they're saying. i.e. the actual truth.

You just don't care. Which means you're insulting for the sake of insulting. Which is why thats what you get back from me, because you are worth no better than that.

And, to stop addressing this piece of shit for a second, muslims are called reactive right, easily stirred to action again perceived insult. Is it any fuckin' wonder? The message there basically is i think you're a piece of shit by virtue of who you are and what you are and i refuse to entertain any other kind of idea or evidence that presents something to the contrary, is that someone like, sending out a beacon for 'hey lets all gather round and debate'

Edited February 15, 2015 by Len B'stard

[classicrawker]

Imagine if we started a thread every time the US shot up some Muslims.

no kidding Mags.........I don't know the statistics but how many of the shootings here in the US can be attributed to Muslim extremists as opposed to troubled white youths?

IMHO blaming multiculturism is just a racist excuse to push their hate agenda.

[Dazey]

"Kill the infidels" is God's words and their absolute law.

It doesn't say kill the infidels as a proclamation to all Muslims in the world for eternity, that was a verse speaking to an army of muslims in regards to the army they were fighting against so that a nation of 5,000 odd people could survive and actually grow. The fact that i have informed you of this fact quite a few times and just about every other quote from the Qu'ran that you've pulled out of your arse completely out of context. Can you remember what your response was? "i don't care, i'm not interested in having a discussion about it" and "i don't actually care that much". Now can you see why a muslim person might respond to that by punching you square in the mouth? Because what you effectively do is, attack something and then when people give you the skinny behind the whole deal you tell them you ain't interested in it.

So whats the message there do you think? It's basically that i don't care what the truth is, i just have a problem with muslims per se. Now at that point any group of people, whether it be muslims, danes, black, white, whatever, when you make that distinction, that you're not interested in the reality you just wanna having a go at them for a laugh well after that people are just gonna take the piss out of you back, from every angle. Because you just don't care about the reality of it.

And you're the guy that wants debate?

Now further compound that with your delightful tendency to constantly take the piss out of anyone whoose black for any reason you can think of, in a really ignorant 1940s kinda way, how do you expect that anyones gonna see anything coming out of your mouth as absolute bollocks? You made a list of quotes from Qu'ran and Hadith the other day claiming doctrine of Islam and almost half of them weren't applicable. Because see if you had anything like a brain in your head you'd realise how the shit ain't true. Cuz you'd look em up. But you don't care to, right? You talk about debate and discussion... but you can't fuckin' do it You just post bullshit and then try to act clever afterwards or just ignore it when the reality is pointed out.

And you're the guy that wants debate?

Like that time when you posted that picture of loads of little muslim girls at this wedding saying it was a mass wedding of 11 year old girls getting married to some Palestinian bloke...when in reality someone had just taken some snaps from a muslim wedding of all these little 9 yr old girls and wrote a bullshit article around it. And whats stupid is you believed it. You're actually that ignorant and from remote a shithole of Europe and you're so seperated from the real world and whats actually going on that you took that shit for real. Do you what an immensely dangerous kind of stupid people like you are? Cuz you actually think you're right. You piss and moan and jump up and down over 'the kids the kids the kids' and yet it never once occured to you that...hang on, whoever made this article is a guy who saw pictures of little girls at a muslim wedding and his immediate thought was 'sex! i know, i'll write an article bout how all these little girls are fuckin'!'. And thats like two instances of the scores and scores of times you've posted some bullshit like that. And each time you are completely disinterested in any evidence to the contrary. Thats like me going outside a swedish pre-school, filming the girls and going 'look, these are all the little honeys Satanisk has got lined up to suck his dick tonight'...what kind of human being would that make me d'ya think?

And you're the guy that wants debate?

My favorite one of yours though was 'oh oh, i discovered something called Tokia and it means muslims can lie to infidels to get there way, OMG, muslimes are evil!!!!' and i very gentle explained to you that tokia is a provision made in Islamic doctrine that says that, if your life is in danger, i.e. you might die in the next 5 mins you are permitted within Islam to deny you are a muslim to save your life, like a captured lone soldier or that kind of thing'. Can you remember what your response was?

And you're the guy that wants debate?

Thats the kind of bullshit oppertunist weasel shit you come from. You and people of your mentality. I'd LOVE to be able to sit here and say you were just someone who didn't get things or whatever but that shit ain't the truth and i know that because what else do you say about someone that will freely attack, refuses to justify and refuses to entertain CLEAR ACTUAL EVIDENCE to the contrary of what they're saying. i.e. the actual truth.

You just don't care. Which means you're insulting for the sake of insulting. Which is why thats what you get back from me, because you are worth no better than that.

And, to stop addressing this piece of shit for a second, muslims are called reactive right, easily stirred to action again perceived insult. Is it any fuckin' wonder? The message there basically is i think you're a piece of shit by virtue of who you are and what you are and i refuse to entertain any other kind of idea or evidence that presents something to the contrary, is that someone like, sending out a beacon for 'hey lets all gather round and debate'

Is that the sound of a mic being dropped that I can hear?

[SoulMonster]

I saw someone say something like "This is not the same religion 99.9% of the Muslims follow". Well, yes, it's exactly the same religion. A few of them just choose to follow the parts that aren't... violent, in lack of better words.

But the choice to follow different parts of a holy book, and the different weighting of parts, and the different interpretations, leads to quite different religious denominations. And you simply can't accuse one denomination for behaviour/opinions/beliefs not held by that denomination but held by another denomination. That is asinine. It is deliberately flawed argumentation constructed to create anger towards a large group of diverse humans fuelled by nothing but ignorance, xenophobia and racism. I will be the first to stand by you in criticism of the perpetrator of the acts in Copenhagen and of those who defend them, but I will also be among the first to point out when racist people try to exploit this tragedy to stir up hatred towards muslims in general.

[MB.]

Imagine if we started a thread every time the US shot up some Muslims.

no kidding Mags.........I don't know the statistics but how many of the shootings here in the US can be attributed to Muslim extremists as opposed to troubled white youths?

IMHO blaming multiculturism is just a racist excuse to push their hate agenda.

In Europe those stats are different though. Here a lot of problems are caused by muslim/immigrants youth or youth with a muslim background. Not extremists btw, just youth. It's just a fact. So something goes wrong. And it's something worrying and shouldn't be denied and it's not a racist observation. Closing our eyes has been going on too long, that way we can never help those kids. Give them a better future, trying to reach them. Help them at a young age. It might be very different in the US, but not in Europe and our governments are finally aware of the situation. However these problems have nothing to do with the religion, but more with the prospect these kids have. Often from poor backgrounds, they do not have the same opportunities and that should be changed. But also their parents have responsibilties as well and muslim youth organisations/mosques etc. We should all work together to change it and that's already starting in my country. It's one of the reasons some kids are funerable for extremist views. I guess trying to find something to be part of, something more and in their eyes better. The way some Europe countries handled their multicultural society hasn't turned out very well. They made many mistakes and it's time to correct that. It's our responsibility to do that and give those kids a better future. Unfortunately you also have more and more people voting for extreme right winged parties, cause they don't see a solution and don't want to see it. That's just as worrying as well. And only divides the countries more and more. Edited February 15, 2015 by MB.

[Lithium]

All religions are terrible.

[Satanisk_Slakt]

Racist people don't need to stir up hatred towards Muslims. The Muslims are doing a great job themselves getting the world to hate them.

[magisme]

Imagine if we started a thread every time the US shot up some Muslims.

no kidding Mags.........I don't know the statistics but how many of the shootings here in the US can be attributed to Muslim extremists as opposed to troubled white youths?

IMHO blaming multiculturism is just a racist excuse to push their hate agenda.

In Europe those stats are different though. Here a lot of problems are caused by muslim/immigrants youth or youth with a muslim background. Not extremists btw, just youth. It's just a fact. So something goes wrong. And it's something worrying and shouldn't be denied and it's not a racist observation. Closing our eyes has been going on too long, that way we can never help those kids. Give them a better future, trying to reach them. Help them at a young age. It might be very different in the US, but not in Europe and our governments are finally aware of the situation. However these problems have nothing to do with the religion, but more with the prospect these kids have. Often from poor backgrounds, they do not have the same opportunities and that should be changed. But also their parents have responsibilties as well and muslim youth organisations/mosques etc. We should all work together to change it and that's already starting in my country. It's one of the reasons some kids are funerable for extremist views. I guess trying to find something to be part of, something more and in their eyes better. The way some Europe countries handled their multicultural society hasn't turned out very well. They made many mistakes and it's time to correct that. It's our responsibility to do that and give those kids a better future. Unfortunately you also have more and more people voting for extreme right winged parties, cause they don't see a solution and don't want to see it. That's just as worrying as well. And only divides the countries more and more.

Might help not to join in on bullshit like the "coalition of the willing" too.

[Satanisk_Slakt]

All religions are terrible.

Agreed. Some are worse than others though. Islam is clearly the worst one.

[Lio]

In Europe those stats are different though. Here a lot of problems are caused by muslim/immigrants youth or youth with a muslim background. Not extremists btw, just youth. It's just a fact. So something goes wrong. And it's something worrying and shouldn't be denied and it's not a racist observation. Closing our eyes has been going on too long, that way we can never help those kids. Give them a better future, trying to reach them. Help them at a young age. It might be very different in the US, but not in Europe and our governments are finally aware of the situation. However these problems have nothing to do with the religion, but more with the prospect these kids have. Often from poor backgrounds, they do not have the same opportunities and that should be changed. But also their parents have responsibilties as well and muslim youth organisations/mosques etc. We should all work together to change it and that's already starting in my country. It's one of the reasons some kids are funerable for extremist views. I guess trying to find something to be part of, something more and in their eyes better. The way some Europe countries handled their multicultural society hasn't turned out very well. They made many mistakes and it's time to correct that. It's our responsibility to do that and give those kids a better future. Unfortunately you also have more and more people voting for extreme right winged parties, cause they don't see a solution and don't want to see it. That's just as worrying as well. And only divides the countries more and more.

Might help not to join in on bullshit like the "coalition of the willing" too.

Belgium didn't.

[magisme]

They are now.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I agree, there is a lot in the quran where you can find justification for these kind of actions. (I want to say as well, that the old testement of the bible is pretty brutal as well). Most muslims living in the West are aware of the fact in which time period it was written though and ofcourse they condemn these kind of shootings. However in my country a very large percentage of young muslim boys/teens are actually understanding these shootings and do think it's right. This is something we should worry about and we do need to adress this. Denying this is dangerous and not helping anybody. We need to find a way to live better together. To help those kids feel welcome and to make them see, they do have a future here.

I disagree that muslims should say 'sorry' or something. Obviously most do not support these actions. To let them say 'sorry' for something they don't have anything to do with, is not right imo. They made this vid. in my country, to explain this. It's pretty harsh and you can debate wether children should be used for this. And that it was kind of mean to the kids. However it does bring the point across pretty well.

I haven't gotten to finishing my copy of the Qur'an, I admit it is as tedious as any religious book, but I've read again and again, I have yet to come across as passage that encourages violence for the sake of violence. Like it pretty much says a Muslims can defend themsleves if they are being attacked, especially they are on a pilgrimage or in prayer. Nowhere does it says go out and kill people.

This is group of people twisting words of Qur'an and Hadith alike to encourage violence. Just like you have Christians carrying out heinous acts in history, these radicals just seem to take a page out of their book. I don't know why so many young Muslims seem susceptible to this. Here in the States they are for the most part fine. Thriving really. I've heard a few of them say the US is the best place to be a practicing Muslim because they can follow it how the choose to be.

Qur'an also warns of people who will preach Islam falsely. Such as radical groups such as Al Qaida or Islamic State

[Lio]

They are now.

It's not the root of the problem though. There have been problems for a long, long time. But the debate was hijacked by extreme right, so for decades admitting there were problems was just not done. It's been festering here for decades, instead of acknowledging that integration doesn't always come smoothly and naturally, and that it asks hard work and commitment from both parties.

I do think multiculturalism has failed, here at least. That's not racist. I'm not saying it's inherent to a specific race and I'm not saying it's the immigrants fault. It's the result of multiple factors. But when you have a very high percentage (relatively) of immigrants in jail, living on benefits, not partecipating in the community etc, you can hardly call that a great success. Again, not pointing fingers, I think all parties are to blame.

Just acting as if the problem doesn't exist, doesn't solve anything and only makes it worse.

[SoulMonster]

I don't know why so many young Muslims seem susceptible to this. Here in the States they are for the most part fine. Thriving really. I've heard a few of them say the US is the best place to be a practicing Muslim because they can follow it how the choose to be.

Why European muslims seem so much more susceptible to radicalization than US muslims is an interesting question. I suppose the US has been better at integrating minorities than most European countries who are much more homogenic and not used to different cultures and ethnicities. In addition, I suppose the flux of people from war-torn areas in the Middle East to Europe is much larger than the same flux of people to the USA, bringing the seeds for conflicts and animosity with them. Lastly, I think there are demographic differences between muslim immigrants to the US and muslim immigrants to Europe, with the former being richer and less opposed, on average, to Western societies than the latter.

[MB.]

I don't think multiculturalism has failed totally. But things could and should have been handled way better. It needs certainly a lot of improvement and work though.

It has indeed nothing to do with joining the coalition though. The problems were already there when I grew up. I grew up with immigrant kids/boys giving or having trouble (this was even before the first Gulf war). Most of them turned out well eventually, but they did that all alone. Nobody gave a shit, nobody helped them. Politics didn't want to burn his hands on this situation, afraid to be called racist. So they had to help themselves. And not only politics is to blame, I knew kids where the parents couldn't communicate with school. Kids really smart and could go to the university but the parents refused, cause they had to work, to get enough money to go 'back'. Ofcourse that never happened. It are just so many different things.

The kids I grew up with are facing now the same problems with their kids. But now there is an extra fear, the fear that their kids are falling for extremists ideas. There has to be done something and it should be a joined effort. But denying that we have made mistakes and that there are problems is not helping the situation at all.

You guys think SS idea's are uncommon here? They actually are not, A very large percentage of the western European population feels exactly the same way. In my country it could be around 20%, it comes from somewhere you know, that just not suddenly happened. But it's another thing, which certainly needs to be looked into and adressed, it already should have way sooner. That's very worrying as well. Divides nations and drive kids straight into the arms of extremist organisations. (Either nazi, extreme right, extreme left, or muslim extremists).

It should not be a suprise to the West European goverments shootings like Paris or Kopenhagen are happening. They failed handling this situation a long time ago. And the ones joining IS are often not even adults or at least hardly. Kids in the age if 15, 16, 17 travelling to Syrië. How sad is that? I don't know the answer, but something should be done.

Edited February 15, 2015 by MB.

[bran]

All religions are terrible.

definitely

[Dazey]

All religions are terrible.

definitely

Can't disagree.

[MB.]

All religions are terrible.

definitely

Can't disagree.

Me neither. I so dislike organised religion, all of them.

[Satanisk_Slakt]

I can honestly say that there's only one religion I truly dislike. I'm pretty indifferent to the others.

[UK SUBS]

You know what SS, I'm as apauled and disgusted as you with radical Muslim attacks but I'm lucky to have met, worked and have friends as Muslims mate. And most of those muslims are strict Muslims -- Friday prayers the lot my man. There's a girl I know who's invited me to her arranged marriage in August this year (me and the Mrs!) and I can't wait to go and see the event, it'll be like nothing I've seen before; I'm honoured she invited me

In summary, the people you're constantly referring to a a significant minor minority and thankfully I know Muslims who as outraged by these hate crimes as much as you.

[Len Cnut]

All this hate all religion stuff is a bunch of stuffy reactive bollocks. Folks are just folks the world over and a great many of the worlds population need and want religion so more power to em i say.

[UK SUBS]

All this hate all religion stuff is a bunch of stuffy reactive bollocks. Folks are just folks the world over and a great many of the worlds population need and want religion so more power to em i say.

That's a fairly simplistic viewpoint though -- If you can't be outraged at events like 9-11 and the attacks in Paris. London 7/7 etc, you're not wired right, imo.

[Strange Broue]

This has nothing to do with "multiculturalism" because this is not a result of "cultures clashing". This is the result of a lone killer who are opposed to (some of) our values. He does not represent any "culture" because no culture, as far I I know of, would applaud his actions (except, perhaps a few of the more extremist jihadist Islamistic groups).

What is the result of "multiculturalism", though, is when low-IQ youth who are confused and afraid, attack innocent Muslims and burn down mosques in Sweden, because they can't handle seeing dark-skinned people with strange customs among themselves, or because they find that their lack of any job-related skills and abilities makes them out-competed in the job-market by immigrants who actually are able to add vaue to society, in contrast to themselves.

Well, yeah, it has everything to do with multiculturalism. Do you think this would have happened if Denmark hadn't had so many Muslims? Also, you may say that most Muslims doesn't support this, but do you ever see more than a handful of individuals that ever condemn any of it? They DO approve of it. You never see leaders of their countries condemning it saying it has nothing to do with Islam, you never see big demonstrations after terror attacks. They may be non-violent, but they will always take the side of the Muslims when these things happen instead of protesting it and let it be known that "this has nothing to do with Islam".

As for your second part, call me stupid all you want, but I've never been unemployed for a period of time and if you knew anything about the labour market here you'd know that I wouldn't have to worry about competition from immigrants there as most of them are more than content with living on our tax money. Also, I've never set a mosque on fire. Or any other building for that matter.

You are lying and this post worth a suspension, imho

[Len Cnut]

All this hate all religion stuff is a bunch of stuffy reactive bollocks. Folks are just folks the world over and a great many of the worlds population need and want religion so more power to em i say.

That's a fairly simplistic viewpoint though -- I'd you can't be outraged at events like 9-11 and the attacks in Paris. London 7/7 etc, you're not wired right, imo.

Thats one religion though isn't it? The posts back there were saying all religion is terrible. And even that ones culpability en masse in terms of being responsible for the three terrorist attacks is a pretty shaky argument.