Second Shooting In Denmark.

[Satanisk_Slakt]

Most Muslims are supportive of it. That's my firm belief.

[Satanisk_Slakt]

I wonder how many of you that are giving me shit for this would care if I said these things about Christians. Isn't it funny how we must find excuses for their loathsome behaviour just because they have a different religion and origin? Racism is honestly far too big a deal for most people.

On topic for once, I wonder how long it will take before we get an attack here in Sweden. We've already had a suicide bomber in Stockholm a few years ago, but that lowlife failed to kill anyone but himself.

[UK SUBS]

This racist bullshit on this site is really getting on my nerves now!

You see clear racism, PM a mod and/or report it. If it still gets you down don't post here?

JESUS people don't half scream racism far too easily these days, imo.

[T.wa.T]

After the attacks in France, the President of Egypt gathered all of his countries high clerics and imams. He asked them to consider making some changes to the way they teach Islam and to reform. It was reported in the US for 2~3 days, and then went away.

Either way, its gonna take a long time for change and acceptance to set in. Fighting wars and shooting or blowing the place up because you don't agree with another human beings faith and beliefs is mindless and a war that will never end.

[grouse]

Most Muslims are supportive of it. That's my firm belief.

People are giving you crap because a) they're either not from from Europe or b) they're just hooray for tolerances. I for one completely agree with what you are saying.

[AxlisOld]

After the attacks in France, the President of Egypt gathered all of his countries high clerics and imams. He asked them to consider making some changes to the way they teach Islam and to reform. It was reported in the US for 2~3 days, and then went away.

Either way, its gonna take a long time for change and acceptance to set in. Fighting wars and shooting or blowing the place up because you don't agree with another human beings faith and beliefs is mindless and a war that will never end.

Lol everything is reported in the US for 2-3 days and forgotten.

[classicrawker]

I don't know why so many young Muslims seem susceptible to this. Here in the States they are for the most part fine. Thriving really. I've heard a few of them say the US is the best place to be a practicing Muslim because they can follow it how the choose to be.

Why European muslims seem so much more susceptible to radicalization than US muslims is an interesting question. I suppose the US has been better at integrating minorities than most European countries who are much more homogenic and not used to different cultures and ethnicities. In addition, I suppose the flux of people from war-torn areas in the Middle East to Europe is much larger than the same flux of people to the USA, bringing the seeds for conflicts and animosity with them. Lastly, I think there are demographic differences between muslim immigrants to the US and muslim immigrants to Europe, with the former being richer and less opposed, on average, to Western societies than the latter.

My thoughts exactly.

Maybe it has to do with the Euro countries being more segregationist then then the U.S.

Most Muslims are supportive of it. That's my firm belief.

People are giving you crap because a) they're either not from from Europe or b) they're just hooray for tolerances. I for one completely agree with what you are saying.

Your attitudes are part of the problem

[AxlisOld]

I don't know why so many young Muslims seem susceptible to this. Here in the States they are for the most part fine. Thriving really. I've heard a few of them say the US is the best place to be a practicing Muslim because they can follow it how the choose to be.

Why European muslims seem so much more susceptible to radicalization than US muslims is an interesting question. I suppose the US has been better at integrating minorities than most European countries who are much more homogenic and not used to different cultures and ethnicities. In addition, I suppose the flux of people from war-torn areas in the Middle East to Europe is much larger than the same flux of people to the USA, bringing the seeds for conflicts and animosity with them. Lastly, I think there are demographic differences between muslim immigrants to the US and mus/lim immigrants to Europe, with the former being richer and less opposed, on average, to Western societies than the latter.

My thoughts exactly.

Maybe it has to do with the Euro countries being more segregationist then then the U.S.

Most Muslims are supportive of it. That's my firm belief.

People are giving you crap because a) they're either not from from Europe or b) they're just hooray for tolerances. I for one completely agree with what you are saying.

Your attitudes are part of the problem

Is it supernatural that these attitudes exist though?

People different from them are killing them and stating who they are targeting. The logical thing would be to separate themselves from the aforementioned "different" people.

[classicrawker]

supernatural? no I don't suspect any paranormal activity in this case

but I doubt the the muslims just decided to start acting out for no reason.

could it be possible that years of being treated as outsiders have something to do with their actions?

I am not saying the violence is justified or acceptible but I doubt it is just something that is happening witout some underlying reason.

It is curious that we don't seem to have the same issues here in the US as there are plenty of Muslims here.

[Strange Broue]

This has nothing to do with "multiculturalism" because this is not a result of "cultures clashing". This is the result of a lone killer who are opposed to (some of) our values. He does not represent any "culture" because no culture, as far I I know of, would applaud his actions (except, perhaps a few of the more extremist jihadist Islamistic groups).

What is the result of "multiculturalism", though, is when low-IQ youth who are confused and afraid, attack innocent Muslims and burn down mosques in Sweden, because they can't handle seeing dark-skinned people with strange customs among themselves, or because they find that their lack of any job-related skills and abilities makes them out-competed in the job-market by immigrants who actually are able to add vaue to society, in contrast to themselves.

Well, yeah, it has everything to do with multiculturalism. Do you think this would have happened if Denmark hadn't had so many Muslims? Also, you may say that most Muslims doesn't support this, but do you ever see more than a handful of individuals that ever condemn any of it? They DO approve of it. You never see leaders of their countries condemning it saying it has nothing to do with Islam, you never see big demonstrations after terror attacks. They may be non-violent, but they will always take the side of the Muslims when these things happen instead of protesting it and let it be known that "this has nothing to do with Islam".

As for your second part, call me stupid all you want, but I've never been unemployed for a period of time and if you knew anything about the labour market here you'd know that I wouldn't have to worry about competition from immigrants there as most of them are more than content with living on our tax money. Also, I've never set a mosque on fire. Or any other building for that matter.

You are lying and this post worth a suspension, imho

Why on earth would that post on its own merit a suspension?

I disagree with 99% of SS's posts but he speaks from the heart and he's passionate -- engage him, he rarely (ever?) goes on a personal attack on any member and he suffers some very personal attacks.

Like I say. I think his views are very misguided but if he's debating intelligently (non abusive) then challenge and engage him. Screaming 'ban' is just ridiculous.

so if i post rascist shit every day here with passion and with heart i'll get a free pass from you?

There's a reasons why he got the personal attacks

If you can't see this, you are the one who wired wrong

He is debating intelligently?

"religion of peace" posts almost every thread about terrorism and islam here....

omg, man

You saying I'm not wired right? Are you mental??

YOU said based on that POST he should be suspended. What in that POST was so outrages he should be suspended? Don't answer actually, I know the answer, nothing.

The amount of rascist lies

Plus the "religion of peace" thing

Plus his all around behaviour here

I'm just glad that you are not an admin of this board anymore...

Downzy already put him on his place on the other thread

Here in Ireland multiculturalism is a long way behind the rest of Europe but the problems are already beginning to arise. The country is 99% Catholic, it is part and parcel of what it means to be Irish. Yet in recent years there has been a growing number of incidents where Muslims have objected to a whole range of things - from Christmas Trees, Christmas Lights, Cribs, Crosses and Crucifixes, demanding that they be removed from public buildings, schools, hospitals etc.

It has pissed a lot of people off. They are starting to take over neighborhoods and want to build Europe's largest Mosque in Dublin.

People don't want this. They don't want our cities and towns following the path of Britain & France & Sweden where entire areas are predominantly Muslim.

One cleric is already calling for an overhaul of Ireland's education system, demanding the implementation of Sharia law. He has also recently threatened to sue any media outlet that publishes the Charlue Hebdo images.

I don't have a problem with Muslims coming to live here but I, and most other Irish people, do have a problem with them trying to change the country to suit their religious views, views that are utterly alien to 99% of the population and wholly at odds with what it means to be Irish.

Frankly if they don't like it, they can fuck off and go to a Muslim country where they can find all the things they are looking for.

You may not have your equal share of Muslims but there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of eastern Europeon and Nigerons living and working in Dublin, a point most Dubliners feel very strongly about (the ones I've engaged that is).

True, and its the same in the rest of Ireland. Part of the problem is the EU rules on immigration withing the EU (allowing in loads of unskilled Polish into the country causing a huge strain on social welfare) and the other is our own Governments useless policy on immigration from Africa leading to the same problem with Nigerians.

We are still not so far down the road as Britain but I can see us ending up the same. It's going to destroy this country but anybody who speaks up is immediately singled out by do-gooder liberal groups and labelled a racist.

It's complete bollocks. These same groups then offer nothing when it comes to tackling the problems these loose immigration policies cause.

maybe you high skilled irish dudes can go and clean toilets and work on SPAR's, then "unskilled" polish immigrants whom worked the poorest jobs for your greedy asses can fuck off from your absolutely lovely and friendly country....

[DieselDaisy]

Here in Ireland multiculturalism is a long way behind the rest of Europe but the problems are already beginning to arise. The country is 99% Catholic, it is part and parcel of what it means to be Irish.

When Muhammad Ali fought Alvin Lewis in Dublin 1972, Muhammad phoned one of the promoters and asked ''where are all the nig*ers in this town?''. The promoter told him, ''Ali, there aren't any'' to which Ali replied, ''oh''.

PS

Hooray for tolerance!s is a hooray for tolerance!s.

Edited February 16, 2015 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

Most Muslims are supportive of it. That's my firm belief.

What evidence do you have for this belief? You are aware that every poll on this topic (see the various Pew Studies) conclude that most muslims don't support terrorist acts as the one we recently had in Paris and the one in Copenhagen. The only way you can align these studies with your belief, and avoid cognitive dissonance, is by convincing yourself that the muslims in the study are lying. Do you seriously believe that the majority of muslims who are asked about their attitude towards terrorism is lying?

[Lio]

but I doubt the the muslims just decided to start acting out for no reason.

What are you basing this on?

could it be possible that years of being treated as outsiders have something to do with their actions?

I am not saying the violence is justified or acceptible but I doubt it is just something that is happening witout some underlying reason.

It is curious that we don't seem to have the same issues here in the US as there are plenty of Muslims here.

Just a statistic from one big city here: percentage of immigrants in 1990: 14.9%; today: 41.9% (7 in 10 children below 5 years old is from a foreign country.)

30% of the 41.9 is from outside of Europe. It's safe to say that the majority is muslim or from muslim background.

That is an enormous influx for one city to handle. People have to be taught the language, it's a different culture, schooling, jobs etc.

Plus, the problem when you have large groups of people coming from the same area, is that the need to integrate is far less than when you are only a few. And it's causing friction with the European people.

It's not the only reason for the problems we have today, there are a myriad of factors, but the influx of immigrants in particular areas has put a huge strain on everything.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Lio

[downzy]

For those who blame multiculturalism for incidents of violence, you might want to take a look at Canada, where multiculturalism has been the official federal policy for decades. Sure, we have a few lunatics, but they belong to no one denomination, group, race, or religion. I can't speak for European countries, but here in Canada, multiculturalism is truly practiced as far as one can take it (in my opinion).

[Lio]

This has nothing to do with "multiculturalism" because this is not a result of "cultures clashing". This is the result of a lone killer who are opposed to (some of) our values. He does not represent any "culture" because no culture, as far I I know of, would applaud his actions (except, perhaps a few of the more extremist jihadist Islamistic groups).

What is the result of "multiculturalism", though, is when low-IQ youth who are confused and afraid, attack innocent Muslims and burn down mosques in Sweden, because they can't handle seeing dark-skinned people with strange customs among themselves, or because they find that their lack of any job-related skills and abilities makes them out-competed in the job-market by immigrants who actually are able to add vaue to society, in contrast to themselves.

Well, yeah, it has everything to do with multiculturalism. Do you think this would have happened if Denmark hadn't had so many Muslims? Also, you may say that most Muslims doesn't support this, but do you ever see more than a handful of individuals that ever condemn any of it? They DO approve of it. You never see leaders of their countries condemning it saying it has nothing to do with Islam, you never see big demonstrations after terror attacks. They may be non-violent, but they will always take the side of the Muslims when these things happen instead of protesting it and let it be known that "this has nothing to do with Islam".

As for your second part, call me stupid all you want, but I've never been unemployed for a period of time and if you knew anything about the labour market here you'd know that I wouldn't have to worry about competition from immigrants there as most of them are more than content with living on our tax money. Also, I've never set a mosque on fire. Or any other building for that matter.

You are lying and this post worth a suspension, imho

Why on earth would that post on its own merit a suspension?

I disagree with 99% of SS's posts but he speaks from the heart and he's passionate -- engage him, he rarely (ever?) goes on a personal attack on any member and he suffers some very personal attacks.

Like I say. I think his views are very misguided but if he's debating intelligently (non abusive) then challenge and engage him. Screaming 'ban' is just ridiculous.

so if i post rascist shit every day here with passion and with heart i'll get a free pass from you?

There's a reasons why he got the personal attacks

If you can't see this, you are the one who wired wrong

He is debating intelligently?

"religion of peace" posts almost every thread about terrorism and islam here....

omg, man

You saying I'm not wired right? Are you mental??

YOU said based on that POST he should be suspended. What in that POST was so outrages he should be suspended? Don't answer actually, I know the answer, nothing.

The amount of rascist lies

Plus the "religion of peace" thing

Plus his all around behaviour here

I'm just glad that you are not an admin of this board anymore...

Downzy already put him on his place on the other thread

Oh please. I saw a couple of other people post they hate religion. But that's okay, it seems? (Only Lenny reacted, iirc.)

Where were you when catholics were called paedophiles? Didn't see you then.

For the record, I don't agree with SS on this or with the religion haters, but I think it's ridiculous to ask for a suspension based on that. Plus, show some respect to Subsy.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Lio

[netcat]

Most Muslims are supportive of it. That's my firm belief.

What evidence do you have for this belief? You are aware that every poll on this topic (see the various Pew Studies) conclude that most muslims don't support terrorist acts as the one we recently had in Paris and the one in Copenhagen. The only way you can align these studies with your belief, and avoid cognitive dissonance, is by convincing yourself that the muslims in the study are lying. Do you seriously believe that the majority of muslims who are asked about their attitude towards terrorism is lying?

im not familiar with European polls but what i find disturbing is that there are many people (not only Muslims) who "don't approve", but at the same time "don't condemn".

for example Russian national poll about Charlie Hebdo shows that

"The largest group of responders – 30 percent – said in their view the tragedy must be blamed on the “behavior of the French journalists who insulted Muslim religious values.”Twenty-five percent answered that the blame lies with the French government for allowing such insults in the first place. Another 11 percent said the French Government was responsible for the events because it had allowed too many Muslims into the country. "

http://www.dailyinnews.com/2015/01/27/most-russians-think-charlie-hebdo-tragedy-provoked-by-journalists-themselves-poll/

do you think these people support terrorism? i think they kind of do, indirectly, and it's a problem

[SoulMonster]

Most Muslims are supportive of it. That's my firm belief.

What evidence do you have for this belief? You are aware that every poll on this topic (see the various Pew Studies) conclude that most muslims don't support terrorist acts as the one we recently had in Paris and the one in Copenhagen. The only way you can align these studies with your belief, and avoid cognitive dissonance, is by convincing yourself that the muslims in the study are lying. Do you seriously believe that the majority of muslims who are asked about their attitude towards terrorism is lying?

im not familiar with European polls but what i find disturbing is that there are many people (not only Muslims) who "don't approve", but at the same time "don't condemn".

for example Russian national poll about Charlie Hebdo shows that

"The largest group of responders – 30 percent – said in their view the tragedy must be blamed on the “behavior of the French journalists who insulted Muslim religious values.”Twenty-five percent answered that the blame lies with the French government for allowing such insults in the first place. Another 11 percent said the French Government was responsible for the events because it had allowed too many Muslims into the country. "

http://www.dailyinnews.com/2015/01/27/most-russians-think-charlie-hebdo-tragedy-provoked-by-journalists-themselves-poll/

do you think these people support terrorism? i think they kind of do, indirectly, and it's a problem

I think it is possible to both say that the journalists did something wrong/reckless/offensive/stupid and caused the killings to happen AND say that the terrorists shouldn't have done what they did. Blaming is not an exact science, when we say we "blame something" then that is usually not an all-encompassing analysis of the causal effects where we assign blame in exact proportion to the causality, just what we personally think should be emphasized, often to make a sociological point. So no, I don't think most of these people support terrorism, I just think they want to focus on what they perceive to be the fault of the journalists rather than the (more obvious) fault of the terrorists. And focussing on the blasphemy doesn't mean they think blasphemy is worse than the killings of journalists, just that that is what they felt was opportune to speak out against at the time (perhaps because they felt that point was downsized, or because they personally feel more threatened by blasphemy than terrorism, or because more voices speaking out against terrorism is kinda redundant, etc).

[SoulMonster]

Since we are discussing these things somewhat abstractally, here are numbers from the latest study I have seen:

A 2013 Pew Research Center poll asked Muslims around the world whether attacks on civilians were justified. Globally 72% of Muslims said violence against civilians is never justified, and in the US, 81% of Muslims opposed such violence. About 14% of Muslims in the nations surveyed (and 8% of Muslims in the US) said violence against civilians is "often" or "sometimes" justified. 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh believe attacks are either somewhat justified or often justified, 18% in Malaysia, 7% in Iraq, 15% in Jordan, 29% in Egypt, 39% in Afghanistan and 40% in the Palestinian territories. The survey did not include some Muslim nations, such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Yemen, Syria, and Libya, but did include densely populated Muslim countries such as Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt, Nigeria and Indonesia.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism

A few comments:

- US muslims are different than European muslims (isn't obvious from the quoted text above, but see study from 2007).

- Muslim attitude towards violence against civilians differ greatly from region to region.

- The majority of muslims, everywhere, say that violence against civilians can never be justified.

[netcat]

Most Muslims are supportive of it. That's my firm belief.

What evidence do you have for this belief? You are aware that every poll on this topic (see the various Pew Studies) conclude that most muslims don't support terrorist acts as the one we recently had in Paris and the one in Copenhagen. The only way you can align these studies with your belief, and avoid cognitive dissonance, is by convincing yourself that the muslims in the study are lying. Do you seriously believe that the majority of muslims who are asked about their attitude towards terrorism is lying?

im not familiar with European polls but what i find disturbing is that there are many people (not only Muslims) who "don't approve", but at the same time "don't condemn".

for example Russian national poll about Charlie Hebdo shows that

"The largest group of responders – 30 percent – said in their view the tragedy must be blamed on the “behavior of the French journalists who insulted Muslim religious values.”Twenty-five percent answered that the blame lies with the French government for allowing such insults in the first place. Another 11 percent said the French Government was responsible for the events because it had allowed too many Muslims into the country. "

http://www.dailyinnews.com/2015/01/27/most-russians-think-charlie-hebdo-tragedy-provoked-by-journalists-themselves-poll/

do you think these people support terrorism? i think they kind of do, indirectly, and it's a problem

I think it is possible to both say that the journalists did something wrong/reckless/offensive/stupid and caused the killings to happen AND say that the terrorists shouldn't have done what they did. Blaming is not an exact science, when we say we "blame something" then that is usually not an all-encompassing analysis of the causal effects where we assign blame in exact proportion to the causality, just what we personally think should be emphasized, often to make a sociological point. So no, I don't think most of these people support terrorism, I just think they want to focus on what they perceive to be the fault of the journalists rather than the (more obvious) fault of the terrorists. And focussing on the blasphemy doesn't mean they think blasphemy is worse than the killings of journalists, just that that is what they felt was opportune to speak out against at the time (perhaps because they felt that point was downsized, or because they personally feel more threatened by blasphemy than terrorism, or because more voices speaking out against terrorism is kinda redundant, etc).

i don't know. it looks like they try to find an excuse for inexcusable. it's like when you have two people fighting, one is absolute nutter and the other is more or less sane. so what you do to stop them? that's right, you exert pressure on the sane one to make him give up/compromise, cause you know the other one is hopeless and he won't stop. it seems to be the most simple and logical solution. but i just doubt it will help you to achieve a positive result

Edited February 16, 2015 by netcat

[SoulMonster]

Most Muslims are supportive of it. That's my firm belief.

What evidence do you have for this belief? You are aware that every poll on this topic (see the various Pew Studies) conclude that most muslims don't support terrorist acts as the one we recently had in Paris and the one in Copenhagen. The only way you can align these studies with your belief, and avoid cognitive dissonance, is by convincing yourself that the muslims in the study are lying. Do you seriously believe that the majority of muslims who are asked about their attitude towards terrorism is lying?

im not familiar with European polls but what i find disturbing is that there are many people (not only Muslims) who "don't approve", but at the same time "don't condemn".

for example Russian national poll about Charlie Hebdo shows that

"The largest group of responders – 30 percent – said in their view the tragedy must be blamed on the “behavior of the French journalists who insulted Muslim religious values.”Twenty-five percent answered that the blame lies with the French government for allowing such insults in the first place. Another 11 percent said the French Government was responsible for the events because it had allowed too many Muslims into the country. "

http://www.dailyinnews.com/2015/01/27/most-russians-think-charlie-hebdo-tragedy-provoked-by-journalists-themselves-poll/

do you think these people support terrorism? i think they kind of do, indirectly, and it's a problem

I think it is possible to both say that the journalists did something wrong/reckless/offensive/stupid and caused the killings to happen AND say that the terrorists shouldn't have done what they did. Blaming is not an exact science, when we say we "blame something" then that is usually not an all-encompassing analysis of the causal effects where we assign blame in exact proportion to the causality, just what we personally think should be emphasized, often to make a sociological point. So no, I don't think most of these people support terrorism, I just think they want to focus on what they perceive to be the fault of the journalists rather than the (more obvious) fault of the terrorists. And focussing on the blasphemy doesn't mean they think blasphemy is worse than the killings of journalists, just that that is what they felt was opportune to speak out against at the time (perhaps because they felt that point was downsized, or because they personally feel more threatened by blasphemy than terrorism, or because more voices speaking out against terrorism is kinda redundant, etc).

i don't know. it looks like they try to find an excuse for inexcusable. it's like when you have two people fighting, one is absolute nutter and the other is more or less sane. so what you do to stop them? that's right, you exert pressure on the sane one to make him give up/compromise, cause you know the other one is hopeless and he won't stop. it seems to be the most simple and logical solution. but i just doubt it will help you to achieve a positive result

I like that analogy

We can't cure the nutters, right, but we have to disarm them, somehow. And this goes back to how to prevent radicalization in Europe, secure peace in the Middle East, reduce xenophobia and racism, prevent ghettofication, reduce ecomonic and social discrimination of minorities, prevent vertical transfer of violent religions, etc. It can be done it is just very hard, especially with the ongoing violence in Syria and Iraq.

[Satanisk_Slakt]

For those who blame multiculturalism for incidents of violence, you might want to take a look at Canada, where multiculturalism has been the official federal policy for decades. Sure, we have a few lunatics, but they belong to no one denomination, group, race, or religion. I can't speak for European countries, but here in Canada, multiculturalism is truly practiced as far as one can take it (in my opinion).

I hope you're kidding. Just looked up how many asylum seekers Canada takes in. In 2013 it was In total 4500. Sweden will according to the authorities take in about a 100 000 a year the coming years. If we compare the population size too you'll see how the asylum seeker per capita will be pretty damn much lower for Canada. 34 million vs 9 million. We have this small town in Sweden called Södertälje with a total of population of 64 000 people have taken in more refugees from Iraq than Canada and America combined. Isn't that great that we have to pay the price for a war you started? So yeah, if Canada took their share, perhaps the rest of us wouldn't have to deal with as many of them as we do.

Most Muslims are supportive of it. That's my firm belief.

What evidence do you have for this belief? You are aware that every poll on this topic (see the various Pew Studies) conclude that most muslims don't support terrorist acts as the one we recently had in Paris and the one in Copenhagen. The only way you can align these studies with your belief, and avoid cognitive dissonance, is by convincing yourself that the muslims in the study are lying. Do you seriously believe that the majority of muslims who are asked about their attitude towards terrorism is lying?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm

Edited February 16, 2015 by Satanisk_Slakt

[The Glow Inc.]

It's not all black and white unfortunately.

As a teacher in a banlieue, I can assure you that there definitely is a minority of muslim kids living there who already have rather let's say "creepy" ideas.

It's a small minority, true, but one that shouldn't be ignored. I mean, I've only been teaching there for six months and I've heard enough...

Some of them do it for the shock value and they are fairly easy to spot, while others really seem pretty convinced.

They are only 12 years old.

[SoulMonster]

Most Muslims are supportive of it. That's my firm belief.

What evidence do you have for this belief? You are aware that every poll on this topic (see the various Pew Studies) conclude that most muslims don't support terrorist acts as the one we recently had in Paris and the one in Copenhagen. The only way you can align these studies with your belief, and avoid cognitive dissonance, is by convincing yourself that the muslims in the study are lying. Do you seriously believe that the majority of muslims who are asked about their attitude towards terrorism is lying?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm

I consider the idea that most muslims lie about their true attitude towards terrorism nothing but deluded conspiracy theories. It's ugly and wicked and sends sad reminders to previous times when Europeans discriminated against whole tracts of people fuelled by racism, xenophobia, fear and ignorance. The killer in Denmark killed a jew and was openly antisemitic - I see no principally difference between anti-semitic argumentation as found among some jihadist sects and the type of anti-muslim rhetoric you are using, SS. You are suspending your own rationality when you believe that the majority of muslims are actually in favour of violence towards civilians - as seen in Paris and Copenhagen - contrary to what muslims state again and again in various studies. It implies they are "all in on it" and are cleverly hiding their true intentions and opinions in a massivelly grand-scale, globally encompassing deception that involved people from all ages, all nations, all ethnicicities that only have the common denominator that they believe in Allah. It is absurd, to say the least. People who believe in such things are either stupid, ignorant, or so resentful it dispels their crtiical sense. .

[netcat]

the thing is that people in general tend to lie. polls and surveys are no exception. they do it for variety of reasons.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-29206289

Edited February 16, 2015 by netcat

[UK SUBS]

This has nothing to do with "multiculturalism" because this is not a result of "cultures clashing". This is the result of a lone killer who are opposed to (some of) our values. He does not represent any "culture" because no culture, as far I I know of, would applaud his actions (except, perhaps a few of the more extremist jihadist Islamistic groups).

What is the result of "multiculturalism", though, is when low-IQ youth who are confused and afraid, attack innocent Muslims and burn down mosques in Sweden, because they can't handle seeing dark-skinned people with strange customs among themselves, or because they find that their lack of any job-related skills and abilities makes them out-competed in the job-market by immigrants who actually are able to add vaue to society, in contrast to themselves.

Well, yeah, it has everything to do with multiculturalism. Do you think this would have happened if Denmark hadn't had so many Muslims? Also, you may say that most Muslims doesn't support this, but do you ever see more than a handful of individuals that ever condemn any of it? They DO approve of it. You never see leaders of their countries condemning it saying it has nothing to do with Islam, you never see big demonstrations after terror attacks. They may be non-violent, but they will always take the side of the Muslims when these things happen instead of protesting it and let it be known that "this has nothing to do with Islam".

As for your second part, call me stupid all you want, but I've never been unemployed for a period of time and if you knew anything about the labour market here you'd know that I wouldn't have to worry about competition from immigrants there as most of them are more than content with living on our tax money. Also, I've never set a mosque on fire. Or any other building for that matter.

You are lying and this post worth a suspension, imho

Why on earth would that post on its own merit a suspension?

I disagree with 99% of SS's posts but he speaks from the heart and he's passionate -- engage him, he rarely (ever?) goes on a personal attack on any member and he suffers some very personal attacks.

Like I say. I think his views are very misguided but if he's debating intelligently (non abusive) then challenge and engage him. Screaming 'ban' is just ridiculous.

so if i post rascist shit every day here with passion and with heart i'll get a free pass from you?

There's a reasons why he got the personal attacks

If you can't see this, you are the one who wired wrong

He is debating intelligently?

"religion of peace" posts almost every thread about terrorism and islam here....

omg, man

You saying I'm not wired right? Are you mental??

YOU said based on that POST he should be suspended. What in that POST was so outrages he should be suspended? Don't answer actually, I know the answer, nothing.

The amount of rascist lies

Plus the "religion of peace" thing

Plus his all around behaviour here

I'm just glad that you are not an admin of this board anymore...

Downzy already put him on his place on the other thread

Here in Ireland multiculturalism is a long way behind the rest of Europe but the problems are already beginning to arise. The country is 99% Catholic, it is part and parcel of what it means to be Irish. Yet in recent years there has been a growing number of incidents where Muslims have objected to a whole range of things - from Christmas Trees, Christmas Lights, Cribs, Crosses and Crucifixes, demanding that they be removed from public buildings, schools, hospitals etc.

It has pissed a lot of people off. They are starting to take over neighborhoods and want to build Europe's largest Mosque in Dublin.

People don't want this. They don't want our cities and towns following the path of Britain & France & Sweden where entire areas are predominantly Muslim.

One cleric is already calling for an overhaul of Ireland's education system, demanding the implementation of Sharia law. He has also recently threatened to sue any media outlet that publishes the Charlue Hebdo images.

I don't have a problem with Muslims coming to live here but I, and most other Irish people, do have a problem with them trying to change the country to suit their religious views, views that are utterly alien to 99% of the population and wholly at odds with what it means to be Irish.

Frankly if they don't like it, they can fuck off and go to a Muslim country where they can find all the things they are looking for.

You may not have your equal share of Muslims but there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of eastern Europeon and Nigerons living and working in Dublin, a point most Dubliners feel very strongly about (the ones I've engaged that is).

True, and its the same in the rest of Ireland. Part of the problem is the EU rules on immigration withing the EU (allowing in loads of unskilled Polish into the country causing a huge strain on social welfare) and the other is our own Governments useless policy on immigration from Africa leading to the same problem with Nigerians.

We are still not so far down the road as Britain but I can see us ending up the same. It's going to destroy this country but anybody who speaks up is immediately singled out by do-gooder liberal groups and labelled a racist.

It's complete bollocks. These same groups then offer nothing when it comes to tackling the problems these loose immigration policies cause.

maybe you high skilled irish dudes can go and clean toilets and work on SPAR's, then "unskilled" polish immigrants whom worked the poorest jobs for your greedy asses can fuck off from your absolutely lovely and friendly country....

Not as happy as I am that I'm no longer admin trust ME! Dealing with dramatic cry babies like you was a real pain in the arse my friend