wasted Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) What do you do?I don't think any human activity would be wiped out. They just become more like hobbies. Like those guys that dress up as knights and go out and reenact battles from medieval times.I work for an irrigation district as a field surveyor/lab rat. Though I've brought up to my boss that we should buy a GPS drone with a camera to look at canals for us.I'm sure that can be arranged. The point is what if that happened and you just got some kind of liveable cash payment. I know this is ripping off the band aid for people right now. We would need social re-training and cash compensation. But like with ATMs if it could be done cheaper that way why pay a human. And if you miss the actual job then maybe simulations would be available. Just like people wear vintage jeans now. Of course if me or you were told your job is gone go home and sit on your ass and feel miserable. That would suck but what if slowly but surely that happens to 50% of people and we become more leisure, fantasy oriented. I'm more on the against it side but it seems like it's happening. Like the Unabomber says it takes away the power and control from the masses. The plutocrats will probably want it to be like this. It's just speculation. But who says you can't be happy without a job? It doesn't necessarily have to be a dystopia. I mean canal survey sounds interesting but lots of people are stuck in work that is drudgery. I doubt they would mind a livable cash payment and not to have to stack cans of beans. Edited June 12, 2015 by wasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 To be honest driving a truck is basically being on the dole anyway. Not to talk down truck drivers but most people aren't doing much. I've washed dishes in a restaurant. If the they fixed the machine I was hardly needed. If you gave me a few hundred and not have to do that I'd be happy. Not mourning the loss of that agonising shit. You could say people will feel worthless but I'm not sure I felt worth anything in the warehouse. More like a forgotten cog in a virtuality game. I'm surprised supermarkets are still open you can order it all online or go to Burger King. Shops must be destroyed.It is funny you say that because restaurants make up like 75% of Oklahoma City's economy. We have to accept the fact that service jobs make up this country. It is retarded to send everyone off to college. There is no reason to believe this fixes the problem. I strive for happiness and that is difficult in such an automated world.I agree herewhole heartedly. You what what you have when everyone has a college education? India. And we all know how many of those PhD's try to stay there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) I think that's what the US is being turned into. They hollowing out the middle classes. You have highly skilled workers in the US and then consumers who work to buy stuff. First it was out sourcing. Now how do you sell this stuff and make even more money? That's right automation, robots, drones, online shopping. Instead of paying a lot of people a lot of money. Get the government to support them and take that money too. Where will the money come from? Wars and borrowing money until it eventually collapses with the 1-2% make a buttload of money and everyone rioting as they leave for Switzerland.But before that our expectations will be lowered. For plutocrats to make more money we'll have to live on soda and 7-11 burritos. Edited June 12, 2015 by wasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yeah, where do people think the money comes from for these guaranteed wages? It's such a sign of the times that we think there's an unlimited supply of money for us to tap into if we just have the political will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bards Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I'm definitely for an guaranteed income. They've done pilot projects which were resounding successes. And before people cast it as some leftist hippy dippy idea, it was an idea proposed by both Richard Nixon and Bob Stanfield. It'd take a massive rethink of the tax code and the way social services are delivered, but I don't think those things are a bad idea either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Tax code? You mean how the gov takes half you're money then you pay tax on what you buy. If we're going borrow money and generate cash from wars why should we work pretending like we generate money taking gov funded jobs. I pay taxes, no you don't you pay your taxes with our taxes. Do we even need humans to run the country? 75% you have to go. There's far too many people who need wifi connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 A rearranged tax code ain't gonna get this one done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Not paying anyone and freezing the accounts of everyone who isn't a billionaire. Then we redistribute wealth to those lazy enough to not care. Those who insist working will be boiled down to make microprocessors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The problem is that the only people who might have the power to do anything about this, will only propose "solutions" that maintain their power. Labor is in many ways the very basis of civilization. When the terms of labor change this dramatically, everything changes. It won't be managed by bureaucrats and academics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 The problem is that the only people who might have the power to do anything about this, will only propose "solutions" that maintain their power. Labor is in many ways the very basis of civilization. When the terms of labor change this dramatically, everything changes. It won't be managed by bureaucrats and academics.It's for that reason I'm drastically altering my appearance and physical form. My avatar is becoming more and more accurate with every passing day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The problem is that the only people who might have the power to do anything about this, will only propose "solutions" that maintain their power. Labor is in many ways the very basis of civilization. When the terms of labor change this dramatically, everything changes. It won't be managed by bureaucrats and academics.It's for that reason I'm drastically altering my appearance and physical form. My avatar is becoming more and more accurate with every passing day Obama is funding the procedures, isn't he? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The problem is that the only people who might have the power to do anything about this, will only propose "solutions" that maintain their power. Labor is in many ways the very basis of civilization. When the terms of labor change this dramatically, everything changes. It won't be managed by bureaucrats and academics. It's for that reason I'm drastically altering my appearance and physical form. My avatar is becoming more and more accurate with every passing day Obama is funding the procedures, isn't he? Isn't downzy Canadian? Then yes. Lousy Canadians receiving all this foreign aid. Freeloaders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 What the hell is a guaranteed income? Sounds like communism to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 What the hell is a guaranteed income? Sounds like communism to me. It's a basic income, enough to pay for food, rent, and a little extra. The irony of capitalism, with its drive for greater efficiencies and productivity, is that it might render most human development irrelevant. At that point, governments will have to install some form of communism as a bulwark against anarchy and chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 What the hell is a guaranteed income? Sounds like communism to me. It's a basic income, enough to pay for food, rent, and a little extra. We already have that. It's called the dole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Except it might get to the point where 40 to 60 percent of the population depends on it if technology continues to progress at the rate it's expected to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Except it might get to the point where 40 to 60 percent of the population depends on it if technology continues to progress at the rate it's expected to. Then we're pretty much fucked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GivenToFly Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I think transhumanism is the only way. We need to cyborg ourselves so we can compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah, where do people think the money comes from for these guaranteed wages? It's such a sign of the times that we think there's an unlimited supply of money for us to tap into if we just have the political will. Primarily through the removal of other services that the government currently provides - welfare, unemployment, old-age benefits, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah, where do people think the money comes from for these guaranteed wages? It's such a sign of the times that we think there's an unlimited supply of money for us to tap into if we just have the political will. Primarily through the removal of other services that the government currently provides - welfare, unemployment, old-age benefits, etc.That's not nearly enough money. Hell, those programs don't have enough money to keep themselves going, let alone take on a task like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 But how much you need is dependent on how much stuff costs. Technology makes stuff cheap. Aren't there sugar mountains that's why soda is cheap? But basically people around the world live far cheaper than people do in the west. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Technology makes technology cheap. Food, water and such? Not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) They've kind of got us addicted to cheap processed food. Water I don't know it seems to keep falling from sky. But the key to happiness is Big Macs and entertainment. Technology involved in fast good industry, all the chemicals and storage. Canned food is technology isn't. I'm sure they could make it worse. We already eat genetically modified vegetables but there are ways of processing waste food like corn husks. We already do it so I guess more processed cheap food. With fibre supplements. I've just seen people eating in 7-11. Dollar burritos. It's an illusion of a burrito. I doubt we'll be fine dining on filet steaks. People have lived on very little meat. You don't die. People just maybe aren't aware of how much less they need. Life is a bowl of rice in some places. In the US maybe it's a 100% chicken fat strawberry flavoured milkshake. Prescription drugs could be the final solution. Legalise weed watch everyone shut the fuck up bout they jobs and shit food. Edited June 13, 2015 by wasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah, where do people think the money comes from for these guaranteed wages? It's such a sign of the times that we think there's an unlimited supply of money for us to tap into if we just have the political will. Primarily through the removal of other services that the government currently provides - welfare, unemployment, old-age benefits, etc.That's not nearly enough money. Hell, those programs don't have enough money to keep themselves going, let alone take on a task like this.I don't feel like you're really giving this much thought before dismissing it so I don't particularly want to go down the rabbit hole and dig up numbers to post...Needless to say, taxation schemes would need to be altered significantly, and there are a number of proposals people have put forward for how this could take place. Look, I get that these ideas might seem utopian/impossible at a casual glance - but when entire white-collar industries start disappearing within the next 10-20 years and we're in desperate need of a radically different economic system, they really won't seem so out there. Great article I remembered about from last year: http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2014/07/17/4048180.htmA good FAQ here for those who are new to the concept (also a "How would you pay for it" section): http://www.reddit.com/r/basicincome/wiki/index 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnold layne Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 There will always be demand for human labor. I work at a gas station. There's no possible way that can be automated in our lifetimes. But at the same time, these positions generally don't pay well.If you want to see the big bucks, I'd go to school to become a lawyer or a doctor. Shit. Hospitals are booming up all over the place around here. People are fat and sick, and they need doctors to heal 'em and lawyers to sue 'em for malpractice. The system is just changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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