British Politics

[DieselDaisy]

3 hours ago, Dazey said:

No Brexiteer appears to understand international trade. Boris in Wales today trying to win over farmers who would be looking at 40%, yes four zero percent tariffs on exports in the event of a no deal. I thought you were in favour of British agriculture. 

Probably because there are other reasons why one would vote leave other than economics. 

You lot (remainers) all think that our prime ministers are chosen by presidential votes. I cannot believe how many times I have seen people questioning ''Boris's mandate'', even elected MPs!!!

Edited July 30, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

 

The reason De Gaulle excised his veto, as CAP wasn't finished to French requirements. When the CAP was ironed-out it become possible to admit the United Kingdom to the European Communities. Our farming was consequentially hammered by cheap French imports.

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The reason De Gaulle excised his veto, as CAP wasn't finished to French requirements. When the CAP was ironed-out it become possible to admit the United Kingdom to the European Communities. Our farming was consequentially hammered by cheap French imports.

And your solution is to now finish off what’s left of the industry?

FYI De Gaulle has been dead for 49 years. I don’t think he cares. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Dazey said:

And your solution is to now finish off what’s left of the industry?

You really would take a cock belonging to your worst enemy up the arse if he handed you a fiver, wouldn't you haha? 

Incidentally, the French were fearful that the British would dominate the EC, turning it into a pragmatic Anglo free trade zone. They required the CAP in order to facilitate French dominance over agricultural before even entertaining British entry. 

[DieselDaisy]

11 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Labour under Blair have screwed the NHS more than anybody. He was the one who thought it would be a good idea to close so many small hospitals with A&E departments and have giant super hospitals - it’s been the worst thing to ever happen to the NHS imo. 

Indeed, that is when my mother quit the NHS. The NHS actually went tits up under New Labour. 

[Dazey]

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You really would take a cock belonging to your worst enemy up the arse if he handed you a fiver, wouldn't you haha? 

Incidentally, the French were fearful that the British would dominate the EC, turning it into a pragmatic Anglo free trade zone. They required the CAP in order to facilitate French dominance over agricultural before even entertaining British entry. 

THAT WAS 50 YEARS AGO!!!

Can’t you live in the present for one minute? You claim to care so much about traditional UK industry but are happy to see it destroyed over some demented hate wank you’re having over something that happened before you were even born. 

Have a read of the following take from the UK Parliament website detailing exactly what will happen to your beloved agriculture industry in the event of no deal.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmenvfru/348/34805.htm

Tariffs on UK-EU exports under WTO rules

14.Individual tariffs vary between different sectors and products. For non-agricultural goods, the average tariffs are relatively small. However, tariffs on agricultural goods are typically much higher, with the intention of protecting domestic markets.

15.The average EU tariff on dairy products is over 30%, while tariffs could be as high as 87% for frozen beef. Some other examples include a tariff of 46% for cheese or 21% for tomatoes. Some individual products have tariffs over 100%.5

16.Witnesses told us that tariff-free access to the EU was “crucial”.6 Tariffs would have a detrimental impact on those agricultural sectors that were dependent on EU exports for their profitability.

17.We heard particular concerns about the impact of tariffs on the sheep sector. The EU is very important for UK sheep meat exports, with more than 95% of its export volume destined for the EU. The Welsh lamb market is very dependent on the EU market, with 92% of exports (by value) and 85% (by volume) destined for the EU.7

18.Sheep exports, with a tariff of at least 50%, would become uncompetitive on the EU market.8 The Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB) told us that this would have a “devastating” effect on the sector.9 The Andersons Centre estimated that in Northern Ireland alone, exports to the EU would drop by about 90%.10 It would have serious consequences in Wales, where sheep farming was such a vital part of the Welsh economy, with producer prices estimated to decrease by 30%.11

19.The EU market is also important to the beef market, with more than 90% of UK beef exports shipped to other EU countries in 2015/16.12

20.In addition to their raw value, exports are important in the meat sector in helping to secure value for the whole carcass, finding markets for parts of the animal that are less favourable in the domestic market. In the UK, consumers prefer to eat chicken breast, lamb legs, mince, beef steaks, pork chops. There is little or no domestic market for dark chicken meat, chicken necks, chicken feet, sow meat and pigs trotters, for example.13 Exporting these allow producers to maximise their return.

21.The EU is also a key market for an “export-focused and orientated” dairy market.14 Currently, 15% of current output in the sector is exported, with 85% to 90% going to mainland Europe.15 In Northern Ireland, the situation is exacerbated by the fact that, unlike other regions of the UK, it exports between 70%–85% of its milk product, mostly as milk powders, and does not have a reliance on the liquid milk market.

22.AHDB noted that the introduction of tariffs would prevent most imports of dairy products into the EU.16 Dairy UK stated:

If you take cheese as an example, WTO tariffs on dairy will do what they are designed to do: they will stop trade. The WTO tariff on cheese is of the order of 40% to 50% depending on the cheese variety. We do not make 50% margins in this sector, so the ability to absorb is minimal, if not non-existent.17

23.In the cereals sector, wheat and barley exports would be most affected. Approximately 80% of exports go to EU markets.18 AHDB told us that cereals would find it difficult to compete in the EU market with other third country wheat producers, such as Russia, Ukraine, the US or South America: “They not only have been exporting effectively for a very long time, but they do it in volumes we cannot imagine”.19

24.An exception to the general concern was fruit and vegetables. Exports are minimal, with most trade focused on the domestic market.20

25.George Eustice MP, Minister of State for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Defra, recognised that the lamb industry and cereals industry would be affected by tariffs on exports.21

26.During our evidence session with Rt. Hon. Michael Gove MP, Secretary of State, and the Minister of State for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, we were surprised to hear that Defra had not completed work on sector by sector analysis.22 More surprising was the admission that this work may not be completed before the publication of the Agriculture Bill. Although DexEU had produced Brexit impact assessments and made them available for Members to view, we were not impressed with the depth of analysis in the documents.

27.The EU is the UK’s most significant trading partner. Although the Government’s intention is to agree a comprehensive free trade agreement and customs agreement with the EU, there is no guarantee that this will occur. In the event that the UK leaves the EU without a free trade agreement, UK-EU trade will proceed under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules. Reverting to WTO tariffs will have a significant impact upon agriculture as tariffs are higher for agricultural products than for other goods and services.

28.We note that the sheep, dairy and cereals sectors, those particularly dependent on the export market, will be most affected.

29.While we recognise and welcome work that has been done by organisations such as AHDB in providing detailed sectoral analysis on the impact of tariffs on the UK’s agricultural sectors, it is imperative that Defra undertakes similar work as a matter of urgency to evaluate the impact of any deal that the Government might be negotiating.

30.We recommend that Defra publishes a sector-by-sector analysis of the impact of Brexit before the publication of the Agriculture Bill.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

Quote

 

The horrifying true story of how France used the EU to undermine British agriculture

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER

13 JANUARY 2018 • 3:13PM

Michael Gove’s recent musings about Britain’s post-Brexit farming policy provide an apt cue to recall one of the most curious episodes in the entire history of the EU: the true origins of its notorious Common Agricultural Policy (CAP).

The shocking story behind this only emerged when, some years back, Richard North and I were researching our history of the EU,The Great Deception. And much else this also helped to explain, from the real reason Charles de Gaulle twice vetoed British entry in the Sixties to why Margaret Thatcher had to battle for our budget rebate in the Eighties.

The official, entirely bogus version has it that the CAP was devised by a benevolent Brussels to guarantee Europe’s “food security” and to save its farmers from the kind of depression they had suffered in the Thirties.

The truth is that, immediately after the war, all Western European countries, including Britain, introduced their own farm subsidies. But by the early Sixties this was leading in France to disaster, building up unsaleable food surpluses at such an unaffordable cost that a drastic solution had to be found.

The UK had to be kept out until all these arcane financial arrangements had been agreed. Otherwise Britain, with then the most efficient agricultural sector in Europe, might well block such a one-sided dea

The clever French noted that the Treaty of Rome promised a Common Agricultural Policy but without giving any details. So their answer was to devise a CAP so absurdly loaded in France’s favour that two other countries would not only provide a market for its surpluses but pay for subsidising them into the bargain. Those countries were Germany and Britain, which by then had announced its intention to join the Common Market.

But the UK had to be kept out until all these arcane financial arrangements had been agreed. Otherwise Britain, with then the most efficient agricultural sector in Europe, might well block such a one-sided deal: hence the real reason for de Gaulle’s two vetoes in 1963 and 1967. Only in 1969, at a summit in The Hague, did the French finally get the agreement they wanted. The very next item on the agenda was to reconsider Britain’s application to join.

The following year, Edward Heath was so keen to get us into “Europe” that he accepted the CAP without demur. In 1973, the year we went in, British farm incomes were higher in real terms than ever before or since. But so loaded against us were the financial arrangements for the CAP that, by 1979, it was clear that within six years the UK would be the largest single net contributor to the Brussels budget, of which the CAP was then taking 90 per cent: hence Mrs Thatcher’s five-year battle to win her rebate.

Since then, much of British agriculture has been in decline. We now import 30 per cent of our food from the EU. Much of it comes from France, which continues to be the largest beneficiary of the CAP.

It may seem odd that this strange story is not better known. But the Brits have never really understood the bizarre form of government we have lived under for 44 years: which is why we are now making such a horrifying mess of our efforts to leave it. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/13/horrifying-true-story-france-used-eu-undermine-british-agriculture/

2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

THAT WAS 50 YEARS AGO!!!

Nope. The CAP still exists, as does the CFP. 

[Dazey]

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/13/horrifying-true-story-france-used-eu-undermine-british-agriculture/

Nope. The CAP still exists, as does the CFP. 

The point is that the damage you’re so bitter about was done decades ago. The status quo that exists today may not be to your liking but I still fail to see how you can see that as justification for making things immeasurably worse. 

[DieselDaisy]

13 minutes ago, Dazey said:

The point is that the damage you’re so bitter about was done decades ago. The status quo that exists today may not be to your liking but I still fail to see how you can see that as justification for making things immeasurably worse. 

I don't see them as making things worse, certainly not in the long term when, free from the customs union, we can make our own bilateral trade deals and possess de-regulated farming and maritime sectors. £39bn which the EU cavort can be used to ameliorate the immediate economic impact of Brexit. And again you are reducing everything to an economic argument and ignoring arguments about sovereignty and democracy.

I think you are suffering from a sort of Stockholm Syndrome regarding the EU.

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I don't see them as making things worse, certainly not in the long term when, free from the customs union, we can make our own bilateral trade deals and possess de-regulated farming and maritime sectors. £39bn which the EU cavort can be used to ameliorate the immediate economic impact of Brexit. And again you are reducing everything to an economic argument and ignoring arguments about sovereignty and democracy.

I think you are suffering from a sort of Stockholm Syndrome regarding the EU.

What’s the point of the long term when the industry will be dead by the time all of these unicorn trade deals are agreed? A no deal Brexit will do so much damage on day one that you’ll be lucky if any farmers are still in business by the time any new trade deal is agreed. Your vague mutterings about sovereignty are irrelevant in this context and the £39 billion (which is mostly payable by 2028) is going to do fuck all. 

[DieselDaisy]

4 minutes ago, Dazey said:

What’s the point of the long term when the industry will be dead by the time all of these unicorn trade deals are agreed? A no deal Brexit will do so much damage on day one that you’ll be lucky if any farmers are still in business by the time any new trade deal is agreed. Your vague mutterings about sovereignty are irrelevant in this context and the £39 billion (which is mostly payable by 2028) is going to do fuck all. 

Why would it be dead when we have a domestic market to offload agricultural stuffs upon? Sovereignty is certainly not irrelevant, and £39bn, coupled with the amount we pay weekly into the budget (about £270 million per week) will offset some of the immediate economic impact of a no deal Brexit.

[Dazey]

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Why would it be dead when we have a domestic market to offload agricultural stuffs upon? 

92% of Welsh lamb is sold to the EU. Where does that all go on November 1st after they get hit with 40-50% tariffs? Tesco suddenly going to buy from a different supplier in the UK from one day to the next? 

[soon]

Im sure this isnt a new thought, but what about a UK Green New Deal which would create unique products and services that the EU will trip over themselves to have access too? Giving leverage to lower or remove tariffs?

[Dazey]

4 minutes ago, soon said:

Im sure this isnt a new thought, but what about a UK Green New Deal which would create unique products and services that the EU will trip over themselves to have access too? Giving leverage to lower or remove tariffs?

Might be plausible but that’s longer term which isn’t the issue. Dies’ and his lot are advocating for a no deal Brexit which basically means all existing trade agreements cease to exist at 23:00 GMT on October 31st. At this point we revert to WTO rules and chaos happens. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

10 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Might be plausible but that’s longer term which isn’t the issue. Dies’ and his lot are advocating for a no deal Brexit which basically means all existing trade agreements cease to exist at 23:00 GMT on October 31st. At this point we revert to WTO rules and chaos happens. 

I'm not advocating a no deal. I'm advocating a deal with a no deal being prepared as a last resort. Obviously some sort of a deal would be preferential to a no deal, but I do not believe the remainiac scaremongering. All the economic scaremongering predicted before until now simply hasn't come to pass; it hasn't come to pass.

[SoulMonster]

12 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Might be plausible but that’s longer term which isn’t the issue. Dies’ and his lot are advocating for a no deal Brexit which basically means all existing trade agreements cease to exist at 23:00 GMT on October 31st. At this point we revert to WTO rules and chaos happens. 

But hey, at least you will get back at the EU for crippling your fisheries 50 years ago, right, by showing them you can cripple industries all by yourself. You don't need foreigners devastating your industries. You don't need fat cats in Brussels tearing apart your livelihoods. You can do all this by yourself. Sovereignity!

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm not advocating a no deal. I'm advocating a deal with a no deal being prepared as a last resort. Obviously some sort of a deal would be preferential to a no deal, but I do not believe the remainiac scaremongering. All the economic scaremongering predicted before until now simply hasn't come to pass; it hasn't come to pass.

Give it three months. 

[soon]

33 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Might be plausible but that’s longer term which isn’t the issue. Dies’ and his lot are advocating for a no deal Brexit which basically means all existing trade agreements cease to exist at 23:00 GMT on October 31st. At this point we revert to WTO rules and chaos happens. 

Oh right, I gotcha. And I guess that after you face that economic hardship your nations ability to pursue a green economic boom is severely undermined.

C'est l'Halloween  

[DieselDaisy]

56 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Give it three months. 

What did the remain campaign say would happen if we voted leave?

- immediate recession 

- unemployment of half a million

- France pulling out of the Le Toucquet Agreement; migrant camps in Kent (this was Cameron).

- an emergency budget required 

None of which occurred. ''Project Fear''.

PS

And remember the Blairy bullshit about the necessity of joining the Eurozone? Brown stalled Blair with his ''six economic targets'' haha. It was the best thing Brown ever did (even many pro-EU people concede this)!

Europhile anti-British scaremongering has been proven groundless at every stage. Why should we believe any of it now, when not a jot of it has ever transpired in the past?

Edited July 30, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[EvanG]

I don't think 'no deal' is going to be as bad as some people think. Don't get me wrong, it's the worst case scenario for everyone involved and the UK will feel the consequences so I hope it won't happen, but should it happen, it's not going to be the doom scenario that some might expect. The UK will get through this, albeit worse off.

[DieselDaisy]

It is ''the millennium bug'' all over again.

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

But hey, at least you will get back at the EU for crippling your fisheries 50 years ago, right, by showing them you can cripple industries all by yourself. You don't need foreigners devastating your industries. You don't need fat cats in Brussels tearing apart your livelihoods. You can do all this by yourself. Sovereignity!

The CAP/CFP are as active now as they were in 1973. 

[DieselDaisy]

Quote

 

I backed Remain – but the warped Project Fear narrative does not stand up to scrutiny

Written by
Murad Gassanly

Murad Gassanly PhD is a Conservative member of Westminster City Council who campaigned for Remain at the 2016 referendum. He is a freelance political consultant, specialising in energy politics in the Caspian Sea region.

An emotionally-charged campaign to overturn the 2016 referendum result is in full swing. We are told Britain is falling apart; that our economy is in crisis and our international reputation is in tatters. And it’s all down to Brexit. Daily the drip-drip of negative stories dominates insidiously biased media coverage. Terms and phrases such as “falling off the cliff edge”, “crashing out”, “a catastrophe”, “a disaster” have become the staple of the anti-Brexit reaction.

An unholy alliance has sprung up between cosmopolitan, metropolitan liberal elites and the ranting, rabid far-left, best symbolised by David Lammy’s outrageously polarising rhetoric. When the Remain ultras are not smearing millions of British people as racists, they are busy trying to scare millions of British people back into the status quo. Project Fear, however, is really just about that: fear-mongering.

It’s a concerted propaganda effort aimed at demoralising the British public and shaking our confidence in the UK’s ability to make success of Brexit. As all propaganda, it distorts facts by presenting a warped view of reality, devoid of any nuance or reflection. One way it does so is by filtering out real facts that do not fit into the prevailing anti-Brexit narrative of impending economic calamity. What follows are some such facts.

For instance, the news in April that the UK has been ranked as the top investment destination in the world, knocking the US off the top spot for the first time ever, comes simultaneously with the latest record-breaking drop in unemployment – now lowest since records began. As the Eurozone teeters on the edge of another recession, Britain’s growth is sustained, stable and is being achieved alongside record-breaking falls in CO2 emissions – the lowest on record since 1888.

Foreign Direct Investment in the UK is at record high. And as the latest figures from the Office for National Statistics show, the bulk of this new investment is coming from Asia (a 33% increase in 2017). According to Deloitte, the UK attracted more Foreign Direct Investment over the past three years than any other country in Europe, bringing in more capital investment than second- and third-placed Germany and France combined.

It is a similar story with financial services. Since the referendum, London attracted more financial services Foreign Direct Investment projects than eight other global financial centres, securing 55 inbound projects in 2017 – more than double the number of Dublin (26), Paris (26), Frankfurt (24) and New York (20). London is set to become home to the same number of fintech unicorns as San Francisco, attracting more investment in the sector than any other city in Europe. When I asked a banker friend of mine about him relocating to Frankfurt he replied: “You go live in Frankfurt …”.

Back in February, Norway’s sovereign wealth fund, the world’s largest, announced a record-breaking increase in its investment in the UK, raising its “exposure to British companies, property and bonds regardless of the outcome of Brexit negotiations”. This bullish confidence is matched by private investors like Jim Ratcliffe’s Ineos recently announcing a £1 billion injection in British oil and chemical industries.

British exports are going through the roof – the UK is the second fastest-growing goods exporter among the top five economies, just behind China, with our goods exports growing by 3.1% to £10.6bn in the year to January. UK exports of beverages alone, such as Scotch whisky, reached a high of £8.3bn in the year to February 2019, increasing by 7% on the previous year.

It’s worth remembering that the bulk of UK exports go outside the EU – the United States is our largest export market, followed by Germany, France, the Netherlands, Ireland, China and Switzerland, in that order. One of the greatest myths created by Project Fear is that Britain trades with the EU Single Market. In reality, Britain mostly trades with just seven of the other 27 member states of the EU. For example, the UK’s annual exports to the United Arab Emirates are worth more than the UK’s exports to Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Slovakia and Hungary combined.

The list of our achievements since 2016 can go on. It should not be surprising that there is little media coverage or discussion of these trends – that wouldn’t fit in with the prevailing anti-Brexit narrative. However, they should not be taken as evidence that Brexit is somehow risk-free. For example, UK’s exports to Poland are worth more than our exports to over 40 non-EU markets combined. And it is clear that some businesses across the economy are more exposed to Brexit-associated risks than others.

Some economic news since 2016 should give us serious cause for concern, but the trends outlined here should give us confidence in the underlying strength and resilience of our economy. I campaigned and voted for Remain in 2016 but, like many former Remainers, I’ve accepted the outcome of the democratic process and came to realise that Brexit is complex and requires a deeper, more nuanced understanding. It is a shame that we’ve failed to acknowledge this complexity in our public debate and this is very much down to Project Fear and the wider campaign to overturn the referendum result. It distorted our collective vision of reality, undermined public faith in democracy and damaged national morale. When Project Fear wins, Britain loses.

 

https://brexitcentral.com/i-backed-remain-but-the-warped-project-fear-narrative-does-not-stand-up-to-scrutiny/

[bucketfoot]

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

I don't think 'no deal' is going to be as bad as some people think. Don't get me wrong, it's the worst case scenario for everyone involved and the UK will feel the consequences so I hope it won't happen, but should it happen, it's not going to be the doom scenario that some might expect. The UK will get through this, albeit worse off.

Shhh... don't let the Remainers know, they're currently reading the country its last rites.

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is ''the millennium bug'' all over again.

Country off a cliff, crash out brexit etc. Love all the apocalyptic language they use. Must be depressing as fuck being in the Remain camp.

[bucketfoot]

Alastair Campbell got his mug all over the news agenda again today. What an abhorrent bloke he is.