British Politics

[spunko12345]

4 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Don't know, have to ask my brother what games we got tickets for. I will let you know before I come.

You might not be able to afford it once Brexit gets going 😄

[SoulMonster]

17 minutes ago, spunko12345 said:

You might not be able to afford it once Brexit gets going 😄

Hoping for a recession and cheaper beer at Old Trafford. 

[DieselDaisy]

On 8/3/2019 at 1:45 PM, SoulMonster said:

What? Not only is Brexit expected to hurt the UK economy, it fucks up with Norway's economy, too!

Source: https://www.bertelsmann-stiftung.de/en/publications/publication/did/estimating-the-impact-of-brexit-on-european-countries-and-regions/

 

We already have a continuity agreement with Iceland/Norway which will come into operation in the event of a no deal Brexit,

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/agreement-on-trade-in-goods-between-iceland-norway-and-the-uk

[SoulMonster]

11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

We already have a continuity agreement with Iceland/Norway which will come into operation in the event of a no deal Brexit,

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/agreement-on-trade-in-goods-between-iceland-norway-and-the-uk

I don't care. My point was that Norway will lose out on Brexit. 

[DieselDaisy]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't care. My point was that Norway will lose out on Brexit. 

You should care. With the continuity agreement in place, zero-rate tariffs on industrial products will continue as per usual. Contrary to remainer scaremongering which envisions a Brexit United Kingdom utterly friendless pertaining to trade, the UK has already acquired a number of trade deals post-referendum.

On 8/3/2019 at 3:31 PM, EvanG said:

Jesus christ, -3,162 for my country? You brits better buy us dinner first before you fuck us that hard...

10% of your export market goes to the United Kingdom. You sell us mostly broadcasting equipment and petroleum but also have a brisk trade in ''human and animal blood''! 

https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/import/gbr/nld/show/2017/

PS

By the way, that website is excellent for analysing trade data for any given country.

Edited August 5, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

Further on Norway, the UK is by far Norway's biggest export market. 20% of Norway's exports (mostly petroleum) go to the United Kingdom. 4.7% of Norwegian imports also come from the United Kingdom, mostly cars and similar products. With the continuity agreement in place this will all remain at zero-rate tariffs as per the EEA.

[SoulMonster]

42 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You should care. With the continuity agreement in place, zero-rate tariffs on industrial products will continue as per usual. Contrary to remainer scaremongering which envisions a Brexit United Kingdom utterly friendless pertaining to trade, the UK has already acquired a number of trade deals post-referendum. 

All of this is irrelevant since we lose money on Brexit. 

34 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Further on Norway, the UK is by far Norway's biggest export market. 20% of Norway's exports (mostly petroleum) go to the United Kingdom. 4.7% of Norwegian imports also come from the United Kingdom, mostly cars and similar products. With the continuity agreement in place this will all remain at zero-rate tariffs as per the EEA.

But we will lose money on Brexit. That's the important thing, not your svada. 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

All of this is irrelevant since we lose money on Brexit. 

But we will lose money on Brexit. That's the important thing, not your svada. 

With a zero-rate tariff agreement Norway shouldn't lose a fraction of the money the 27 EU member states will lose, especially the Germans and the Dutch, two of the United Kingdom's biggest trading partners; of course, the fact Norway is in the EFTA/EEA and not the EU has made the negotiation of a bilateral trade deal possible in the first place. The United Kingdom has also negotiated a continuity deal with the Swiss who are also EFTA, although curiously not a member of the EEA (they negotiated with the EU bilaterally, old Swiss neutrality etc etc).

The Swiss are utterly pissed at the EU incidentally: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48833680

Besides trade, a no deal Brexit would also leave a massive hole in the EU budget of circa £18.777 billion per year (£361 million per week). If we hold back the £39 billion ''divorce bill'' the European Union won't have that money either. Norway pays about £740 million per year into the EEA by the way. This hole in the budget will trigger a domino affect no doubt, countries having their contributions ramped-up.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

With a zero-rate tariff agreement Norway shouldn't lose a fraction of the money the 27 EU member states will lose

I tend to trust the authors of the study I linked to over you.

[DieselDaisy]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I tend to trust the authors of the study I linked to over you.

I am citing pure fact, not subjective opinion!

(No Deal Brexit occurs on 31st October, the following going into operation),

- Norwegian continuity agreement: ''Zero-rate tariffs on industrial products and preferential tariffs and tariff rate quota allowances for agricultural and fishery products''.

- 27 EU member states using WTO rules: average tariffs between the UK and EU, 4.3-5.7 percent. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I am citing pure fact, not subjective opinion!

Generally speaking, I consider professor Giordano Mion and Dr. Dominic Ponattu from Bertelsmann Stiftung as more credible than a random guy on a GN'R forum. And more specifically, I don't consider you very trustworthy or credible.

[DieselDaisy]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Generally speaking, I consider professor Giordano Mion and Dr. Dominic Ponattu from Bertelsmann Stiftung as more credible than a random guy on a GN'R forum. And more specifically, I don't consider you very trustworthy or credible.

But I am citing pure fact! I haven't just invented this continuity agreement haha,

This is the official website for the British government,

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-norway-and-iceland-signtrade-continuity-agreement

And here is the actual deal itself!!!,

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/795335/100419_OFF-SEN_EEA_PR.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/795291/MS_17.2019_Iceland_Norway_Trade.pdf

And this,

http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2019-0100/Annex_A_List_of_International_Agreements.pdf

Edited August 5, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

But I am citing pure fact! I haven't just invented this continuity agreement haha,

Then I am sure the authors have considered this when doing their work.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Then I am sure the authors have considered this when doing their work.

They haven't as they wrote it March 2019. The continuity agreement was signed April 2019. The article you cite is therefore out of date.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

They haven't as they wrote it March 2019. The continuity agreement was signed April 2019. The article you cite is therefore out of date.

Then why on earth didn't you start off by saying the data is outdated because a new deal has been entered? 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Then why on earth didn't you start off by saying the data is outdated because a new deal has been entered? 

My initial response was to what you posted. 

 

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

My initial response was to what you posted. 

 

Eh, yes? Which was a table from an article that Norway will lose money in a hard Brexit, with the link to the study where it was taken from. The sane response would have been something along the lines of, "But this table might be  outdated when it comes to Norway, since UK and Norway recently entered a continuity agreement that will come into effect if a hard Brexit takes place." 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Eh, yes? Which was a table from an article that Norway will lose money in a hard Brexit, with the link to the study where it was taken from. The sane response would have been something along the lines of, "But this table might be  outdated when it comes to Norway, since UK and Norway recently entered a continuity agreement that will come into effect if a hard Brexit takes place." 

I was responding to your post, which did not include the date the article was scripted, and making some general remarks about UK-Norway trade relations. I didn't read the article until before I posted this reply,

12 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

They haven't as they wrote it March 2019. The continuity agreement was signed April 2019. The article you cite is therefore out of date.

I skim read it in order to see if it takes into consideration the continuity agreement and then spotted the date and immediately spotted the problem.

 

PS

I just realised we have signed a continuity agreement with Lichtenstein also. That means we have tariff free trade agreements with the entirety of the EFTA. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/782494/continuing-the-uks-trade-relationship-with-the-swiss-confederation-and-the-principality-of-liechtenstein.pdf

 

[DieselDaisy]

Also your truculence was entirely misplaced as I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with the findings of the article, the omission of continuity agreements with you EFTAers aside, but merely highlighting the existence of those continuity arrangements. Without going into the methodology, the calculations, of the piece, obviously the erection of trade barriers between the United Kingdom and the EU will hit both trading areas economically - I even mentioned that no deal would hit the Germans and Dutch the hardest. I should also add that the UK has a gigantic trade surplus with Ireland which would also be hammered by a hard border, relying as it does on UK imports (without opening up the ''Backstop'' bag of worms!).

Edited August 5, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Without going into the methodology, the calculations, of the piece, obviously the erection of trade barriers between the United Kingdom and the EU will hit both trading areas economically

Yes, which is one of the many reasons why EU, and trade and cooperation in general, is such a good thing. This Britain first! policy is just hurting the countries, and quite frankly embarrassing.

[DieselDaisy]

12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, which is one of the many reasons why EU, and trade and cooperation in general, is such a good thing. This Britain first! policy is just hurting the countries, and quite frankly embarrassing.

Few leavers are espousing a no deal Brexit. It would be only the most zealous of Brexiteer who would desire walking away without a deal over walking away without some sort of agreement. Maybe that Mark ''don't mention the war'' Francois chap?

Edited August 5, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

EU nutters are utterly blinkered and devoid of any sort of factually, rational or historical understanding. This from our floppy-haired ALDE fool,

''A vast majority of Europeans consider themselves citizens of the EU!'' - emphasis on ''Europeans''.

30.7% of Europeans don't even live in the European Union!!!

 

[bucketfoot]

An unpleasant hybrid of David Mellor and Timmy Mallett.

[DieselDaisy]

''European/Europe'' equated to the ''EU'', as many EU nutters do all the time (''I'm European''). Let's analyse this for a moment,

- 19/47 (Council of Europe) European countries do not belong to the European Union.

- 30.7% of Europeans do not live in the European Union.

- 56% of Europe's landmass is located outside the European Union. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

EU nutters are utterly blinkered and devoid of any sort of factually, rational or historical understanding. This from our floppy-haired ALDE fool,

That is great news indeed :). I wasn't aware Europeans (in the EU) feel such belonging to the EU. And yes, time to make it into a proper democratic union through transnational lists. I agree wholeheartedly with this guy. Making the EU more democratic is overdue.