British Politics

[DieselDaisy]

Farming,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49274874

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/farming/1810599/no-deal-brexit-would-be-best-thing-for-dairy-business/

[Dazey]

13 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I suppose you're technically correct, having removed the common sense conclusion that maybe the food rotting in ports would be better off served feeding the starving population! 

Except that won’t happen because the food producers likely don’t have a sales contract with vendors in this country or it wouldn’t be on a wagon destined for Europe. 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Dazey said:

Except that won’t happen because the food producers likely don’t have a sales contract with vendors in this country or it wouldn’t be on a wagon destined for Europe. 

Vendors merely need to switch their supplies to an internal market. It isn't rocket science. It is merely a case of switching your supply to match newly created demand. Some of this stuff is widely illogical anyway. We sell the Danes loads of pigs for instance which are then killed (inhumanly by all accounts), cured, then sold back to us as ''Danish Bacon''!

[Dazey]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Vendors merely need to switch their supplies to an internal market. 

How long does that take exactly? And how many businesses suffer in the interim?

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

How long does that take exactly? And how many businesses suffer in the interim?

I assume that is what is occurring with the extra £2.1bn,

- £108m will go on promoting and supporting businesses "to ensure they are ready for Brexit", including a national programme of business readiness and "helping exporters to prepare for, and capitalise on, new opportunities".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49183324

[DieselDaisy]

You have to remember that the UK is a net contributor to the EU, i.e., we pay more in than we receive back. Leaving the European Union with a no deal will free-up a considerable amount of money, £14 billion per year net of rebate, the majority of it derived from customs; further, there will be no £39 billion ''divorce bill'' to pay. 

 

[DieselDaisy]

I'm starting to believe remainers are utterly cracked. They've lost it mentally. I am genuinely starting to believe this. Case in point,

 

Just today,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49314840

 

[DieselDaisy]

I wonder if this is what Lucas had in mind?

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Yeah, like it’s just men who voted for Brexit 

[DieselDaisy]

Her cabinet would smell of kippers also.

(Hides!!!). 

[Dazey]

16 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

You have to remember that the UK is a net contributor to the EU, i.e., we pay more in than we receive back. Leaving the European Union with a no deal will free-up a considerable amount of money, £14 billion per year net of rebate, the majority of it derived from customs; further, there will be no £39 billion ''divorce bill'' to pay. 

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it. The economic benefits to having free trade with the largest trading bloc on Earth far outweighs any net contribution we make. That is basically the cost of access to the single market. It's like a Taxi driver quitting his job and and saying that it's a good thing to be unemployed because now he saves a few quid on petrol and insurance.

[DieselDaisy]

10 minutes ago, Dazey said:

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it. The economic benefits to having free trade with the largest trading bloc on Earth far outweighs any net contribution we make. That is basically the cost of access to the single market. It's like a Taxi driver quitting his job and and saying that it's a good thing to be unemployed because now he saves a few quid on petrol and insurance.

I'm not sure the analogy works considering we are discussing a ball-busting £14 billion per year net of rebate here which the EU rakes off of our customs, VAT and GNI (alright, some of that, about 6 billion, is re-invested in the United Kingdom but that is still [our] money being spent without our control).  

We'll still be trading with the European Union, just not at zero tariff rates. Your Waitrose will still have your humus; you'll just have to pay 30p more for it.

[Ace Nova]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm not sure the analogy works considering we are discussing a ball-busting £14 billion per year net of rebate here which the EU rakes off of our customs, VAT and GNI (alright, some of that, about 6 billion, is re-invested in the United Kingdom but that is still [our] money being spent without our control).  

We'll still be trading with the European Union, just not at zero tariff rates. Your Waitrose will still have your humus; you'll just have to pay 30p more for it.

And I can't wait for Brexit.  No disrespect, mate.  The U.S. Dollar will be close to par with the British Pound for the first time in history.  The Euro could suffer as well.  Good chance that the Pound, the Euro and the Dollar will be close to par within a decade.   Ouch.  

 

[SoulMonster]

10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm not sure the analogy works considering we are discussing a ball-busting £14 billion per year net of rebate here which the EU rakes off of our customs, VAT and GNI (alright, some of that, about 6 billion, is re-invested in the United Kingdom but that is still [our] money being spent without our control).  

We'll still be trading with the European Union, just not at zero tariff rates. Your Waitrose will still have your humus; you'll just have to pay 30p more for it.

As we looked at before, the UK will lose money from Brexit. 

What matters to you, and you said so yourself above, is to regain control of stuff. To not be ruled by foreigners. That's the real issue for you and trying to dress it up as a fiscal thing makes no sense. Again, you will lose money.

[DieselDaisy]

7 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

And I can't wait for Brexit.  No disrespect, mate.  The U.S. Dollar will be close to par with the British Pound for the first time in history.  The Euro could suffer as well.  Good chance that the Pound, the Euro and the Dollar will be close to par within a decade.   Ouch.  

 

Irrespective of Brexit, 

- The Germany economy is practically in recession

- French economy is going tits up

- The EU are refusing the Italians (this should piss you off?) their anti-austerity budgets. 

PS

You should really dislike the EU for fucking Italy up the arse come to think of it?

Edited August 12, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

As we looked at before, the UK will lose money from Brexit. 

What matters to you, and you said so yourself above, is to regain control of stuff. To not be ruled by foreigners. That's the real issue for you and trying to dress it up as a fiscal thing makes no sense. Again, you will lose money.

I wouldn't phrase it quite like that, but I make no apologies in believing a country which can no longer bilaterally trade with others is no longer sovereign. But there are about 500 other reasons why I loath the EU, only a few of them relating to economics - it is Dazey who is obsessed with the trade aspect and I am just replying to him.

[Ace Nova]

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Irrespective of Brexit, 

- The Germany economy is practically in recession

- French economy is going tits up

- The EU are refusing the Italians (this should piss you off?) their anti-austerity budgets. 

Yep.

Which means the dollar could be on par with the Euro and the Pound within a decade.  (Most likely sooner).

I'm just being an ass, btw.  But I travel several times a year, so I'm just looking out for my personal interests.

 

 

[soon]

Even though admittedly much of the Brexit business goes over my head, I find reading the brexit debates here very refreshing and encouraging. Its good, quality debate that has to incorporate a wide poll of knowledge and considerations. Im impressed!

In ways the discussion parrelles the conversation around decolonization here.

But the conversation is down right dumb and often overspilling with hatred here. Here in NA if you show some one a Two Row Wampum they will go on a nonsensical rant as follows "So, what are we supposed to go back to Europe?!?! They werent peaceful before us you know!!" But the Two Row Wampum is a depiction of a way to share this land  And its spoken meaning is about riding one canoe of settlers down the river and one canoe of indigenous down the river, with out disrupting one another and both caring for the water. Absolutely nothing about it suggests that settlers leave!

Its a treaty and a very peaceful one at that, so its weird that pre settlement warring is brought up.  Also not to mention that the Two Row is commonly associated with Six Nations... yeah 6 tribes who made a peace treaty pre settlement 

Anyways, carry on. I shall endeavour to raise the level of public discourse on decolonization to the levels that you lot operate at.

[Dazey]

I just popped into the supermarket to grab a sandwich for lunch and there were a couple of (likely) Brexiteers at the currency exchange desk complaining that they could only get €1.02 to the pound for their holidays. Karma’s a bitch.   

[DieselDaisy]

11 minutes ago, soon said:

Even though admittedly much of the Brexit business goes over my head, I find reading the brexit debates here very refreshing and encouraging. Its good, quality debate that has to incorporate a wide poll of knowledge and considerations. Im impressed!

In ways the discussion parrelles the conversation around decolonization here.

But the conversation is down right dumb and often overspilling with hatred here. Here in NA if you show some one a Two Row Wampum they will go on a nonsensical rant as follows "So, what are we supposed to go back to Europe?!?! They werent peaceful before us you know!!" But the Two Row Wampum is a depiction of a way to share this land  And its spoken meaning is about riding one canoe of settlers down the river and one canoe of indigenous down the river, with out disrupting one another and both caring for the water. Absolutely nothing about it suggests that settlers leave!

Its a treaty and a very peaceful one at that, so its weird that pre settlement warring is brought up.  Also not to mention that the Two Row is commonly associated with Six Nations... yeah 6 tribes who made a peace treaty pre settlement 

Anyways, carry on. I shall endeavour to raise the level of public discourse on decolonization to the levels that you lot operate at.

Being a member of the EU is a lot like being colonised come to think of it.

- Their law trumps your law 

- you cannot bilaterally trade with other nations

- you don't have your own currency and cannot set your own interest rates

- your economy is destroyed through CAP/CFP

- you endure a plethora of propaganda, from anti-historical gibberish about the EU  ''defeating the Nazis and creating peace'', to the demonizing (''Nazis, yokels, uneducated'') of anyone who dares to question the hideous thing.

- a segment of your society, suffering from a sort of Stockholm Syndrome, treacherously choose to aid the colonizing of your people

7 minutes ago, Dazey said:

I just popped into the supermarket to grab a sandwich for lunch and there were a couple of (likely) Brexiteers at the currency exchange desk complaining that they could only get €1.02 to the pound for their holidays. Karma’s a bitch.   

They'll not get much better if they had Euros, when the German economy bombs.

Edited August 12, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Dazey]

41 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm not sure the analogy works considering we are discussing a ball-busting £14 billion per year net of rebate here which the EU rakes off of our customs, VAT and GNI (alright, some of that, about 6 billion, is re-invested in the United Kingdom but that is still [our] money being spent without our control).  

We'll still be trading with the European Union, just not at zero tariff rates. Your Waitrose will still have your humus; you'll just have to pay 30p more for it.

So if £6 billion comes back to us that’s £8 billion net contribution? 

If we take my favourite Waitrose Humous as an example at a current cost of £1.65. If you add the extra 30p then that’s an 18% tariff.

So let’s extrapolate this across the £345 billion in goods that we imported from the EU last year and that’s an additional £62 billion in tariffs paid by UK consumers or approximately 8 times the net contribution we make. 

Now that only takes into account increased costs on imports. At this point we’re not even considering the losses incurred by British businesses from lost sales due to tariffs imposed on the £289 billion of UK exports into the EU. 

Looking at those numbers the £39 billion seems like quite the bargain as does the net contribution.  

[DieselDaisy]

7 minutes ago, Dazey said:

So if £6 billion comes back to us that’s £8 billion net contribution? 

If we take my favourite Waitrose Humous as an example at a current cost of £1.65. If you add the extra 30p then that’s an 18% tariff.

So let’s extrapolate this across the £345 billion in goods that we imported from the EU last year and that’s an additional £62 billion in tariffs paid by UK consumers or approximately 8 times the net contribution we make. 

Now that only takes into account increased costs on imports. At this point we’re not even considering the losses incurred by British businesses from lost sales due to tariffs imposed on the £289 billion of UK exports into the EU. 

Looking at those numbers the £39 billion seems like quite the bargain as does the net contribution.  

Circa,

£18.7 bn gross per year

£14.3 bn net of rebate

£9.7 bn net of rebate/public sector receipts

£8.3 bn net of rebate/public sector receipts and private sector receipts

Edited August 12, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Ace Nova]

16 minutes ago, Dazey said:

So if £6 billion comes back to us that’s £8 billion net contribution? 

If we take my favourite Waitrose Humous as an example at a current cost of £1.65. If you add the extra 30p then that’s an 18% tariff.

So let’s extrapolate this across the £345 billion in goods that we imported from the EU last year and that’s an additional £62 billion in tariffs paid by UK consumers or approximately 8 times the net contribution we make. 

Now that only takes into account increased costs on imports. At this point we’re not even considering the losses incurred by British businesses from lost sales due to tariffs imposed on the £289 billion of UK exports into the EU. 

Looking at those numbers the £39 billion seems like quite the bargain as does the net contribution.  

Well, on a positive note, the tourism industry should increase.  It's finally going to be "affordable" to travel to the U.K.!!!   

[SoulMonster]

13 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Being a member of the EU is a lot like being colonised come to think of it.

- Their law trumps your law 

- you cannot bilaterally trade with other nations

- you don't have your own currency and cannot set your own interest rates

- your economy is destroyed through CAP/CFP

- you endure a plethora of propaganda, from anti-historical gibberish about the EU  ''defeating the Nazis and creating peace'', to the demonizing (''Nazis, yokels, uneducated'') of anyone who dares to question the hideous thing.

- a segment of your society, suffering from a sort of Stockholm Syndrome, treacherously choose to aid the colonizing of your people

They'll not get much better if they had Euros, when the German economy bombs.

Heh, the purpose of a union like the EU, or USA, is to have some overarcing laws and rules, otherwise there wouldn't really be a point of having the union. You can whine as much as you want about these laws and regulations coming from Brussels and not from London, but the outcome of being part of the EU is stability and better opportunities. You want to throw all of that away so you can be governed from London and not from Brussels, by proper Englishmen and not Germans and French. How much are you willing to pay for this illusion of sovereignty, of being governed from slightly closer to your desolated fisher village? The core of your distaste of the EU is thus, and remains, your distaste for and distrust in people who happen to not be Brits.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Heh, the purpose of a union like the EU, or USA, is to have some overarcing laws and rules, otherwise there wouldn't really be a point of having the union. You can whine as much as you want about these laws and regulations coming from Brussels and not from London, but the outcome of being part of the EU is stability and better opportunities. You want to throw all of that away so you can be governed from London and not from Brussels, by proper Englishmen and not Germans and French. How much are you willing to pay for this illusion of sovereignty, of being governed from slightly closer to your desolated fisher village? The core of your distaste of the EU is thus, and remains, your distaste for and distrust in people who happen to not be Brits.

The United States is a country, a federal republic. The EU is not a country but a supranational/intergovernmental amalgam of 28 countries. 

Back to the drawing board with this one, I'm afraid.