2414225 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Estranged is GnR's Stairway to heaven. Most complex song they did. It's melodic but you can hear that the band took a while to understand how they had to play it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janrichmond Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 August 31 1991 Wembley Stadium. The first time i heard Estranged.Loved it then and love it now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Has everyone seen the making of video posted? There is just so much cool stuff in there... Edited July 12, 2017 by Tom-Ass 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janrichmond Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said: Has everyone seen the making of video posted? There is just so much cool stuff in there... Can you get it on DVD/Bluray in America? I've still got my VHS copy but nothing to play it on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said: Has everyone seen the making of video posted? There is just so much cool stuff in there... Yes. I saw it in the 90's when all those videos came out and I had a shitty VHS and my English was non-existent Then I was able to find it much later on the Internet but there's only that one version with those japanese subtitles that make it look weird. Anyway, it is great that's still around. They should re-release these videos in good modern quality! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tori72 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 You know what, I've never seen it. Only parts of it. I just realised it's about one hour long... Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Tori72 said: You know what, I've never seen it. Only parts of it. I just realised it's about one hour long... Jeez. Really?? WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 1 hour ago, janrichmond said: Can you get it on DVD/Bluray in America? I've still got my VHS copy but nothing to play it on. I don't believe so.. I used to have all the VHS tapes but got rid of them.. You can just watch it on youtube now though 14 minutes ago, Tori72 said: You know what, I've never seen it. Only parts of it. I just realised it's about one hour long... Jeez. Get busy! There some really great footage and interviews in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janrichmond Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Just now, Tom-Ass said: I don't believe so.. I used to have all the VHS tapes but got rid of them.. You can just watch it on youtube now though yeah i do watch them on youtube but i want my own I dunno why they can't release them on DVD. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 They're awful. Why would you want them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 23 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: They're awful. Why would you want them? Only reason I could see someone wanting any VHS like that is for collecting purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janrichmond Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, RussTCB said: Only reason I could see someone wanting any VHS like that is for collecting purposes. i don't want the VHS [got them] 27 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: They're awful. Why would you want them? because i love Slash 46 minutes ago, Tori72 said: You know what, I've never seen it. Only parts of it. I just realised it's about one hour long... Jeez. have you seen the other 2?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tori72 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, janrichmond said: i don't want the VHS [got them] because i love Slash have you seen the other 2?? Until now I thought i did. Probably only parts of it as well. 34 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said: Get busy! There some really great footage and interviews in there. Am watching it right now. 44 minutes ago, killuridols said: Really?? WTF lol. Yeah right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, janrichmond said: i don't want the VHS [got them] Missed that part.........sorry! As far as the Making Of Documentaries themselves, I remember having the tapes when they came out. I watched each one several times because I loved the hell out of the videos themselves. I should probably watch them again on YouTube or something. 90% of the material would probably seem brand new to me now lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I have the VHS. But they are useless now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janrichmond Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 1 minute ago, killuridols said: I have the VHS. But they are useless now Same here but i can't just throw them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 2 hours ago, 2414225 said: you can hear that the band took a while to understand how they had to play it correctly. the band "took a while to understand how to play it correctly" what? if i am reading correctly you are suggesting Axl told Izzy, Slash and Duff (and Matt) how to arrange and how to play Estranged? i suppose there is zero evidence for that and I think Axl didnt have any hands on teaching or telling anyone how to do arrangements -- except telling Matt Sorum how to play drums, which was something Matt mentioned in a couple of interviews. I would say (instead) that the band probably took a while to create a typical GNR rock n roll arrangement for Estranged and the other Axl piano ballads. Which is very understandable since Izzy, Slash and Duff likely had never played that kind of music before and by all accounts none of them even listened or liked that type of music. Given all that, Izzy, Slash, Duff (and Matt?) likely created this very simple yet very effective (moving, really) three-chord arrangements that not only fit the lyrics and the mood of the song but also enhance it and give edge to it, increasing the dramatics of the song all the while preventing it to become a sterile piano ballad with boring arrangements like, for example, 99% of the hair-metal bands ballads If you go a bit further and take one fast listen to the Axl solo album, it gets even more obvious how brilliant are the arrangements to Estranged (and November Rain etc) on the Illusions. Here you get the same "starting point" (an Axl piano ballad) in songs like Madagascar and The Blues. But the final results are very different. Apparently there was no one among the god-knows-how-many guitar players and keyboard players and producers of Chinese Democracy that was capable of creating the same type of GNR-rocking (again, very simple) three-chord arrangements or any other type of arrangements to make Axl songs sound and feel good. You listen to Estranged and you notice how (simple and) brilliant Izzy, Slash, Duff (and Matt) are. You listen to the Axl solo album piano ballads and you notice how they are sorely missed. and besides the brilliant yet simple arrangements, you also get Slash solos on Estranged. but there is not much sense in compair perfection to whatever solos we find on Axl solo ballads -- that would be too much of a cowardice to do so, wouldnt it? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, ludurigan said: ... if i am reading correctly you are suggesting Axl told Izzy, Slash and Duff (and Matt) how to arrange and how to play Estranged? i suppose there is zero evidence for that and I think Axl didnt have any hands on teaching or telling anyone how to do arrangements -- except telling Matt Sorum how to play drums, which was something Matt mentioned in a couple of interviews. .... Given all that, Izzy, Slash, Duff (and Matt?) likely created this very simple yet very effective (moving, really) three-chord arrangements that not only fit the lyrics and the mood of the song but also enhance it and give edge to it, increasing the dramatics of the song all the while preventing it to become a sterile piano ballad with boring arrangements like, for example, 99% of the hair-metal bands ballads .... Well, there is zero evidence for the opposite either and all we can do is speculate. And of course the band as a whole made Estranged what it is, but it could never have been a "hair metal band ballad" regardless, as even the November Rain piano and acoustic demos are very far from being that. Edited July 12, 2017 by Blackstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 47 minutes ago, janrichmond said: Same here but i can't just throw them out. yeah, me either. It's one of the few things from that era I still have because moving so much as I have, make you reduce your belongings each time more 39 minutes ago, ludurigan said: If you go a bit further and take one fast listen to the Axl solo album, it gets even more obvious how brilliant are the arrangements to Estranged (and November Rain etc) on the Illusions. Here you get the same "starting point" (an Axl piano ballad) in songs like Madagascar and The Blues. But the final results are very different. Apparently there was no one among the god-knows-how-many guitar players and keyboard players and producers of Chinese Democracy that was capable of creating the same type of GNR-rocking (again, very simple) three-chord arrangements or any other type of arrangements to make Axl songs sound and feel good. You listen to Estranged and you notice how (simple and) brilliant Izzy, Slash, Duff (and Matt) are. In my opinion, this has to do with Slash knowing where that song is coming from. I think he must be the one leading the arrangements on Estranged. Slash knew Axl since the begining, he knew the relationship that song is about, he understands Axl's heart and soul and was able to translate those feelings and emotions to the guitars. Like... the sounds of "dolphins" the guitar does.... Slash knows why the dolphins have a deep meaning to Axl. While Buckethead, Finck and rest were just studio musicians hired to do the same thing but they didn't know Axl in that way Slash and the rest know him. They've done the best they could with those songs, I think. But that's it. I would have loved to hear TWAT and Street of Dreams in a Slash version. The had the potential to become masterpieces. Just the potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicson Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Best GN'R song ever. Period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2414225 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, ludurigan said: the band "took a while to understand how to play it correctly" what? if i am reading correctly you are suggesting Axl told Izzy, Slash and Duff (and Matt) how to arrange and how to play Estranged? i suppose there is zero evidence for that and I think Axl didnt have any hands on teaching or telling anyone how to do arrangements -- except telling Matt Sorum how to play drums, which was something Matt mentioned in a couple of interviews. I would say (instead) that the band probably took a while to create a typical GNR rock n roll arrangement for Estranged and the other Axl piano ballads. Which is very understandable since Izzy, Slash and Duff likely had never played that kind of music before and by all accounts none of them even listened or liked that type of music. Given all that, Izzy, Slash, Duff (and Matt?) likely created this very simple yet very effective (moving, really) three-chord arrangements that not only fit the lyrics and the mood of the song but also enhance it and give edge to it, increasing the dramatics of the song all the while preventing it to become a sterile piano ballad with boring arrangements like, for example, 99% of the hair-metal bands ballads If you go a bit further and take one fast listen to the Axl solo album, it gets even more obvious how brilliant are the arrangements to Estranged (and November Rain etc) on the Illusions. Here you get the same "starting point" (an Axl piano ballad) in songs like Madagascar and The Blues. But the final results are very different. Apparently there was no one among the god-knows-how-many guitar players and keyboard players and producers of Chinese Democracy that was capable of creating the same type of GNR-rocking (again, very simple) three-chord arrangements or any other type of arrangements to make Axl songs sound and feel good. You listen to Estranged and you notice how (simple and) brilliant Izzy, Slash, Duff (and Matt) are. You listen to the Axl solo album piano ballads and you notice how they are sorely missed. and besides the brilliant yet simple arrangements, you also get Slash solos on Estranged. but there is not much sense in compair perfection to whatever solos we find on Axl solo ballads -- that would be too much of a cowardice to do so, wouldnt it? Slash told several times that the band had to work very hard to remember all the different parts in estranged. So for me it sounds like it took a while for them to understand the song in its entirety. I also needed a few times to realize the perfection of estranged. Edited July 12, 2017 by 2414225 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 14 minutes ago, 2414225 said: Slash told several times that the band had to work very hard to remember all the different parts in estranged. So for me it sounds like it took a while for them to understand the song in its entirety. I also needed a few times to realize the perfection of estranged. "remember all the parts" has nothing to do with "understand how to play it correctly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Blackstar said: Well, there is zero evidence for the opposite either and all we can do is speculate. And of course the band as a whole made Estranged what it is, but it could never have been a "hair metal band ballad" regardless, as even the November Rain piano and acoustic demos are very far from being that. what? there is a lot of evidence that izzy, slash and duff arranged all GNR songs -- this does not seem to be an exception and there is ZERO evidence of axl EVER doing arrangements for guitar, for example it is known that axl wrote chords for one in a million and dead horse and maybe a few others i have never known of anything about axl doing guitar arrangements so it is very likely that izzy, slash and duff did the guitar arrangements for estranged === about the hair metal ballad, obviously that izzy, slash and duff would never do a pathetic hair metal arrangement. thats exactly my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, ludurigan said: what? there is a lot of evidence that izzy, slash and duff arranged all GNR songs -- this does not seem to be an exception and there is ZERO evidence of axl EVER doing arrangements for guitar, for example it is known that axl wrote chords for one in a million and dead horse and maybe a few others i have never known of anything about axl doing guitar arrangements so it is very likely that izzy, slash and duff did the guitar arrangements for estranged === about the hair metal ballad, obviously that izzy, slash and duff would never do a pathetic hair metal arrangement. thats exactly my point. I see... You were talking only about the guitar arrangements/parts and I was talking about the song as a whole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerInThisTown Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Tom-Ass said: 97,000,000 views on youtube... Classic song that 99.9% of us all love and a song that I think this line up consistently does a good job at... So much awesomeness and so many memories packed into this VHS...... Side note: In this video Axl is whistling to an instrumental of what would become "Back And Forth Again" on Slashs snakepit 2 years later. If theres a recording of him whistling to it, there might be a demo. Wish they would open the vault a bit Edited July 13, 2017 by StrangerInThisTown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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