RICHARD FORTUS Says 'Everyone Is Excited' About Possibility Of New Album

[DieselDaisy]

He wanted Tobias in, even going so far as to wax lyrically about him at Rio 3 - ''without Paul there would be no Guns N' Roses'' - yet only played a handful of gigs with the guy; instead, Tobias vanished into oblivion, whether it is as Axl says that it is, that he ''didn't want to play live'', your guess is as good as mine? Despite all that, sacking your extent rhythm guitarist Gilby, jeopardising your musical/personal relationship with Slash over an interloping rhythm guitarist, Tobias lasted five minutes and Rose had to hire another one in Fortus!

What a dysfunctional mess of a band!

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Wagszilla said:

A succinct summary of 20 years.

Paul could've been a good behind the scenes contributor like West or Chris Weber, etc. but both Slash and Axl were so far up their own asses they couldn't have a rational conversation and establish a "good ideas are good ideas" policy.

We'll be here in 2 years having the same conversation in lieu of no new music.

Scapegoating is human nature. 

I cannot really blame Slash for having to be forced to work with some guy he didn't like and didn't have a musical rapport with.

[rendestroi95]

9 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Gilby.

But why? Just because we can see him on the tokyo DVD? My god, this is not the 90's anymore, we have o guy that plays everything 4545151x better, but you guys want the Paul Tobias of the UYI tour so the nostalgia can be stronger and stronger

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, rendestroi95 said:

But why? Just because we can see him on the tokyo DVD? My god, this is not the 90's anymore, we have o guy that plays everything 4545151x better, but you guys want the Paul Tobias of the UYI tour so the nostalgia can be stronger and stronger

You are just assuming my opinion on Gilby and Fortus is the same as yours. It isn't.

[rendestroi95]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

You are just assuming my opinion on Gilby and Fortus is the same as yours. It isn't.

That's why i started asking why, i'm really trying to understand

[DieselDaisy]

26 minutes ago, rendestroi95 said:

That's why i started asking why, i'm really trying to understand

Well as I said, you are just assuming my opinion on Gilby and Fortus is the same as yours. I have no special admiration for the guitar skills or songwriting capacity of the latter.

[rendestroi95]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well as I said, you are just assuming my opinion on Gilby and Fortus is the same as yours. I have no special admiration for the guitar skills or songwriting capacity of the latter.

But you have for Gilby, who also has never showed or written anything special? I mean, i'm really trying not to assume anything, but you don't even explain why you prefer gilby LOL

[RONIN]

4 minutes ago, rendestroi95 said:

But you have for Gilby, who also has never showed or written anything special? I mean, i'm really trying not to assume anything, but you don't even explain why you prefer gilby LOL

Scroll through this page dude - he explains it

[rendestroi95]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Scroll through this page dude - he explains it

Oh, finally, thanks

[Padme]

10 hours ago, Nostalgia^ said:

I don't understand the response in this thread....Why is is bad if Fortus senses that there's a lot of excitement in the band currently? He is entitled to his opinion I guess? Or did I miss something?

  He lost credibility when it comes to talking about a new album. He has been making similar comments for years. And at the end there never was any album.

[SoulMonster]

6 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

He wanted Tobias in, even going so far as to wax lyrically about him at Rio 3 - ''without Paul there would be no Guns N' Roses'' - yet only played a handful of gigs with the guy; instead, Tobias vanished into oblivion, whether it is as Axl says that it is, that he ''didn't want to play live'', your guess is as good as mine? Despite all that, sacking your extent rhythm guitarist Gilby, jeopardising your musical/personal relationship with Slash over an interloping rhythm guitarist, Tobias lasted five minutes and Rose had to hire another one in Fortus!

What a dysfunctional mess of a band!

Axl: The public gets a different story from the other guys ­ Slash, Duff, Matt - who have their own agendas. The original intentions between Paul and myself were that Paul was going to help me for as long as it took to get this thing together in whatever capacity that he could help me in. So when he first was brought into this, he was brought in as a writer to work with Slash. At the time those guys never suggested one name. Nobody else. Ever. Paul was one of the best people we knew who was both available and capable of complimenting Slash’s style. You could bring in a better guitar player than Paul. You could bring in a monster. I tried putting Zakk Wylde with Slash and that didn’t work. It brought out some interesting things in Slash but it was a different approach that ended up being overpowering and didn’t bring out the best in Slash. It brought out some interesting things and it would’ve worked to do some songs. But Paul was only interested in complimenting Slash, laying down a foundation of a riff or something. That would accent or encourage Slash's lead playing. Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn’t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash. He is and this is the bottom line a good man and that's the reality behind things. That doesn't change what took place with old Guns. I feel that some of the recordings we did in that limited amount of time had some of the best playing that Slash had done at least since Illusions. I was there. I know what I heard and it was pretty exciting.
[...]
Paul helped us a lot in the writing and the recording of this record and to me was a vital part of not only the band but also my life. The world tour really wasn’t his cup of tea whereas he's much more comfortable in a studio setting [GN'R press release with Axl interview; gnronline.com, 2002].

Axl: Paul helps out all the time and is on a lot more material [chinesedemocracy.com, December 13, 2008].

[DieselDaisy]

27 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Axl: The public gets a different story from the other guys ­ Slash, Duff, Matt - who have their own agendas. The original intentions between Paul and myself were that Paul was going to help me for as long as it took to get this thing together in whatever capacity that he could help me in. So when he first was brought into this, he was brought in as a writer to work with Slash. At the time those guys never suggested one name. Nobody else. Ever. Paul was one of the best people we knew who was both available and capable of complimenting Slash’s style. You could bring in a better guitar player than Paul. You could bring in a monster. I tried putting Zakk Wylde with Slash and that didn’t work. It brought out some interesting things in Slash but it was a different approach that ended up being overpowering and didn’t bring out the best in Slash. It brought out some interesting things and it would’ve worked to do some songs. But Paul was only interested in complimenting Slash, laying down a foundation of a riff or something. That would accent or encourage Slash's lead playing. Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn’t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash. He is and this is the bottom line a good man and that's the reality behind things. That doesn't change what took place with old Guns. I feel that some of the recordings we did in that limited amount of time had some of the best playing that Slash had done at least since Illusions. I was there. I know what I heard and it was pretty exciting.
[...]
Paul helped us a lot in the writing and the recording of this record and to me was a vital part of not only the band but also my life. The world tour really wasn’t his cup of tea whereas he's much more comfortable in a studio setting [GN'R press release with Axl interview; gnronline.com, 2002].

Axl: Paul helps out all the time and is on a lot more material [chinesedemocracy.com, December 13, 2008].

In the interests of fairness, are you going to post Slash's opinion on Tobias?

[SoulMonster]

Looking at these two versions of Duff explaining how Axl introduced Paul to the band, is quite amusing. In the first, which was closest to the event (from 2000), he portrays Axl as demanding that Paul is included as a band member and being really stubborn about it. Basically forcing Paul upon them. In the second version, from his autobiography, what he says more closely reflects Axl's own version of what happened which was that Axl brought in Paul to help them (out for a while) and that Axl accepted them testing him out for a few days first.

DUFF VERSION 1: [Axl] had hired his best friend for the band. I couldn't play with him. Paul Huge, that was the guy! He's a friend of Axl, he's a 'yes man.' [...] Man, you can't be in Guns N' Roses just like that. That was a real band. [...] Well, imagine you and I grow up together and you're my best friend. OK, I'm in Guns N' Roses and I tell the rest you're going to join the band. "OK, Slash, Axl, Matt, guys, this guy is in the band". "Duff, you got a minute?" "No, he's in the band" "Well, no. Everyone in the band has to vote it, Duff, so no way!" "Fuck you, this guy is in the band! I'm not doing anything unless this guy is in the band" "OK, you know what? We'll try and play with him, since you're that much interested in it. Hey Duff, the guy can't play" "I don't care" "Well that's not very reasonable." "I don't care". At that point, what would you do? I came to a point where I couldn't even look at [Paul Huge]. If I were in such a situation, if I were the friend joining the band, I'd say "Hey guys, you've done very good yourselves alone, I'm not going any further. Hey, Duff, thanks for the offer, but I'm breaking your band." But he didn't say it [Popular 1, July 2000]

DUFF VERSION 2: Then Axl wanted to bring in a guy named Paul Huge. "You want to bring in your buddy from Indiana?" Slash said incredulously. "Look, he'll just jam with us and maybe it'll work out," Axl said. "No," both Slash and I said. "Yes," said Axl. This wasn't some wedding band you could just bring friends into. If I wasn't going to bend for the sake of one of my best friends - Slash , and his Southern-rock songs [which Slash wanted to use for GN'R's next record] - I sure as hell wasn't going to let a stranger come in and fuck around with Guns. "Fine," Axl said. "How's this: you guys try him out on your own, give him a few days." We let him come in. Gave him a couple of days. It was hopeless [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 242]

Poor Paul. It must have been hell to come into the band under those conditions.

AXL'S VERSION: The public gets a different story from the other guys ­ Slash, Duff, Matt - who have their own agendas. The original intentions between Paul and myself were that Paul was going to help me for as long as it took to get this thing together in whatever capacity that he could help me in. So when he first was brought into this, he was brought in as a writer to work with Slash. At the time those guys never suggested one name. Nobody else. Ever. Paul was one of the best people we knew who was both available and capable of complimenting Slash’s style.  [...] Paul was only interested in complimenting Slash, laying down a foundation of a riff or something. That would accent or encourage Slash's lead playing. Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn’t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash. He is and this is the bottom line a good man and that's the reality behind things. That doesn't change what took place with old Guns. I feel that some of the recordings we did in that limited amount of time had some of the best playing that Slash had done at least since Illusions. I was there. I know what I heard and it was pretty exciting.

Slash's account, from his book, implies that he was open to the idea when Axl suggested to bring in Paul, which is in complete disagreement with Duff's versions, but rejected the idea because Paul wasn't a good enough guitar player and had a bad personality, too.

SLASH'S VERSION: Axl [...] insisted on hiring Paul Huge, this guy he knew from Indiana who, for whatever reason, also calls himself Paul Tobias. They had history: the two of them cowrote 'Back Off Bitch' among other songs. I was open to the idea...until Paul showed up: he had no personality whatsoever and no particular guitar style or sound that I could identify with. He was, without doubt, the least interesting , most bland guy holding a guitar that I'd ever met. I tried my best to work with him, but it went nowhere. It was even more awkward then it sounds because our stilted interaction took place at rehearsal with everyone else watching us (...). No, it was useless; the guy was irredeemable. It was like talking to a wall,  a wall with a bad attitude. He was totally arrogant and gave off the vibe that he was Axl's boy, that he was in, and that everyone else had to deal with it [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York, p.377-378]

So what really happened? Here's is what I believe. Axl really wanted Paul in and thought he would be a good partner to Slash. Better than other players they had tested, like Zakk Wylde. Slash and Duff were angry with Axl at the time and REALLY didn't like Axl trying, probably not very diplomatically, to set them up with Paul without consulting them first. Slash also disliked Paul due to him playing on Sympathy for the Devil. Duff and Slash, on their part, were probably very difficult about this, as a consequence, and refused to even consider the idea. Axl then suggested, as a compromise - well-intentioned but doomed to fail - to test it out a bit, to do some rehearsals with Paul to see how it worked out. Duff and Slash were predisposed against Paul and it didn't work at all. Whether Paul really was as bad as Slash recounts is hard to say, it is difficult to trust Slash when his accounts always seem a bit reverse engineered. So Axl probably overstepped his bounds and could have gone about things more diplomatically, while Duff and Slash probably overreacted to the idea.

Either way, Slash and Duff left the band and Paul became a full member from 1997 and onwards.

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

In the interests of fairness, are you going to post Slash's opinion on Tobias?

I just did The reason I quoted Axl's account on Paul was to counter your claim that "he lasted 5 minutes" - he recorded foro CD and recorded much more material.

Edited July 27, 2017 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

26 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Looking at these two versions of Duff explaining how Axl introduced Paul to the band, is quite amusing. In the first, which was closest to the event (from 2000), he portrays Axl as demanding that Paul is included as a band member and being really stubborn about it. Basically forcing Paul upon them. In the second version, from his autobiography, what he says more closely reflects Axl's own version of what happened which was that Axl brought in Paul to help them (out for a while) and that Axl accepted them testing him out for a few days first.

DUFF VERSION 1: [Axl] had hired his best friend for the band. I couldn't play with him. Paul Huge, that was the guy! He's a friend of Axl, he's a 'yes man.' [...] Man, you can't be in Guns N' Roses just like that. That was a real band. [...] Well, imagine you and I grow up together and you're my best friend. OK, I'm in Guns N' Roses and I tell the rest you're going to join the band. "OK, Slash, Axl, Matt, guys, this guy is in the band". "Duff, you got a minute?" "No, he's in the band" "Well, no. Everyone in the band has to vote it, Duff, so no way!" "Fuck you, this guy is in the band! I'm not doing anything unless this guy is in the band" "OK, you know what? We'll try and play with him, since you're that much interested in it. Hey Duff, the guy can't play" "I don't care" "Well that's not very reasonable." "I don't care". At that point, what would you do? I came to a point where I couldn't even look at [Paul Huge]. If I were in such a situation, if I were the friend joining the band, I'd say "Hey guys, you've done very good yourselves alone, I'm not going any further. Hey, Duff, thanks for the offer, but I'm breaking your band." But he didn't say it [Popular 1, July 2000]

DUFF VERSION 2: Then Axl wanted to bring in a guy named Paul Huge. "You want to bring in your buddy from Indiana?" Slash said incredulously. "Look, he'll just jam with us and maybe it'll work out," Axl said. "No," both Slash and I said. "Yes," said Axl. This wasn't some wedding band you could just bring friends into. If I wasn't going to bend for the sake of one of my best friends - Slash , and his Southern-rock songs [which Slash wanted to use for GN'R's next record] - I sure as hell wasn't going to let a stranger come in and fuck around with Guns. "Fine," Axl said. "How's this: you guys try him out on your own, give him a few days." We let him come in. Gave him a couple of days. It was hopeless [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 242]

Poor Paul. It must have been hell to come into the band under those conditions.

AXL'S VERSION: The public gets a different story from the other guys ­ Slash, Duff, Matt - who have their own agendas. The original intentions between Paul and myself were that Paul was going to help me for as long as it took to get this thing together in whatever capacity that he could help me in. So when he first was brought into this, he was brought in as a writer to work with Slash. At the time those guys never suggested one name. Nobody else. Ever. Paul was one of the best people we knew who was both available and capable of complimenting Slash’s style.  [...] Paul was only interested in complimenting Slash, laying down a foundation of a riff or something. That would accent or encourage Slash's lead playing. Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn’t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash. He is and this is the bottom line a good man and that's the reality behind things. That doesn't change what took place with old Guns. I feel that some of the recordings we did in that limited amount of time had some of the best playing that Slash had done at least since Illusions. I was there. I know what I heard and it was pretty exciting.

Slash's account, from his book, implies that he was open to the idea when Axl suggested to bring in Paul, which is in complete disagreement with Duff's versions, but rejected the idea because Paul wasn't a good enough guitar player and had a bad personality, too.

SLASH'S VERSION: Axl [...] insisted on hiring Paul Huge, this guy he knew from Indiana who, for whatever reason, also calls himself Paul Tobias. They had history: the two of them cowrote 'Back Off Bitch' among other songs. I was open to the idea...until Paul showed up: he had no personality whatsoever and no particular guitar style or sound that I could identify with. He was, without doubt, the least interesting , most bland guy holding a guitar that I'd ever met. I tried my best to work with him, but it went nowhere. It was even more awkward then it sounds because our stilted interaction took place at rehearsal with everyone else watching us (...). No, it was useless; the guy was irredeemable. It was like talking to a wall,  a wall with a bad attitude. He was totally arrogant and gave off the vibe that he was Axl's boy, that he was in, and that everyone else had to deal with it [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York, p.377-378]

So what really happened? Here's is what I believe. Axl really wanted Paul in and thought he would be a good partner to Slash. Better than other players they had tested, like Zakk Wylde. Slash and Duff were angry with Axl at the time and REALLY didn't like Axl trying, probably not very diplomatically, to set them up with Paul without consulting them first. Slash also disliked Paul due to him playing on Sympathy for the Devil. Duff and Slash, on their part, were probably very difficult about this, as a consequence, and refused to even consider the idea. Axl then suggested, as a compromise - well-intentioned but doomed to fail - to test it out a bit, to do some rehearsals with Paul to see how it worked out. Duff and Slash were predisposed against Paul and it didn't work at all. Whether Paul really was as bad as Slash recounts is hard to say, it is difficult to trust Slash when his accounts always seem a bit reverse engineered. So Axl probably overstepped his bounds and could have gone about things more diplomatically, while Duff and Slash probably overreacted to the idea.

Either way, Slash and Duff left the band and Paul became a full member from 1997 and onwards.

I just did The reason I quoted Axl's account on Paul was to counter your claim that "he lasted 5 minutes" - he recorded foro CD and recorded much more material.

He played how many shows?

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

He played how many shows?

Four shows.

[DieselDaisy]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Four shows.

I rest my case.

[SoulMonster]

22 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I rest my case.

I wasn't even aware there was any disagreement regarding how many shows he played.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

59 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

So what really happened? Here's is what I believe. Axl really wanted Paul in and thought he would be a good partner to Slash. Better than other players they had tested, like Zakk Wylde. Slash and Duff were angry with Axl at the time and REALLY didn't like Axl trying, probably not very diplomatically, to set them up with Paul without consulting them first. Slash also disliked Paul due to him playing on Sympathy for the Devil. Duff and Slash, on their part, were probably very difficult about this, as a consequence, and refused to even consider the idea. Axl then suggested, as a compromise - well-intentioned but doomed to fail - to test it out a bit, to do some rehearsals with Paul to see how it worked out. Duff and Slash were predisposed against Paul and it didn't work at all. Whether Paul really was as bad as Slash recounts is hard to say, it is difficult to trust Slash when his accounts always seem a bit reverse engineered. So Axl probably overstepped his bounds and could have gone about things more diplomatically, while Duff and Slash probably overreacted to the idea.

Either way, Slash and Duff left the band and Paul became a full member from 1997 and onwards.

I just did The reason I quoted Axl's account on Paul was to counter your claim that "he lasted 5 minutes" - he recorded foro CD and recorded much more material.

Agree with your take on this...

I'm outta likes, but thanks for taking the time to post all that (I cut out the rest for the sake of not quoting the entire post all over again).  Really informative for those of us that haven't been closely following the band's shenanigans over the years and are just catching up with all that's been going on.  I've read both Slash and Duff's autobiographies but it's good to have passages from it contextualised in this way, so thanks again.  I always got the impression Slash would be just as difficult as Axl to work with, and just as much of a stubborn perfectionist in his own way, which is not necessarily a bad thing when you've got the right people i.e. Izzy, locked in place, but when you're looking for someone else to complement Slash, bring out the best in him, plus get his seal of approval, it'd be a nightmare for sure.  

[DieselDaisy]

12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I wasn't even aware there was any disagreement regarding how many shows he played.

You said I was wrong in saying he stayed around for only five minutes.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

You said I was wrong in saying he stayed around for only five minutes.

That is a misunderstanding. What I meant to say is that his longevity and importance with GN'R as understood from the number of live shows, is misleading. Yes, he only played four shows but he was a formally recognized member for 6-7 years and had a history of writing songs with GN'R for much longer (from the start of GN'R all the way to today, examples include Shadow of Your Love and Chinese Democracy). He has also recorded much material with the band, much of which is presumably still unreleased. So in the history of GN'R Paul Tobias is not insignificant at all. To dismiss him as only having been with the band "for five minutes" is disingenious at best. He is much more important than those four shows, regardless of whether you like him or not and whether you buy into the oversimplified theory that he singlehandedly broke up the band. Facts remain facts.

[DieselDaisy]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

That is a misunderstanding. What I meant to say is that his longevity and importance with GN'R as understood from the number of live shows, is misleading. Yes, he only played four shows but he was a formally recognized member for 6-7 years and had a history of writing songs with GN'R for much longer (from the start of GN'R all the way to today, examples include Shadow of Your Love and Chinese Democracy). He has also recorded much material with the band, much of which is presumably still unreleased. So in the history of GN'R Paul Tobias is not insignificant at all. To dismiss him as only having been with the band "for five minutes" is disingenious at best. He is much more important than those four shows, regardless of whether you like him or not and whether you buy into the oversimplified theory that he singlehandedly broke up the band. Facts remain facts.

I have little opinion on him. Obscure figure.

In my opinion Axl single-handedly broke up Guns N' Roses.

[RONIN]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Looking at these two versions of Duff explaining how Axl introduced Paul to the band, is quite amusing. In the first, which was closest to the event (from 2000), he portrays Axl as demanding that Paul is included as a band member and being really stubborn about it. Basically forcing Paul upon them. In the second version, from his autobiography, what he says more closely reflects Axl's own version of what happened which was that Axl brought in Paul to help them (out for a while) and that Axl accepted them testing him out for a few days first.

DUFF VERSION 1: [Axl] had hired his best friend for the band. I couldn't play with him. Paul Huge, that was the guy! He's a friend of Axl, he's a 'yes man.' [...] Man, you can't be in Guns N' Roses just like that. That was a real band. [...] Well, imagine you and I grow up together and you're my best friend. OK, I'm in Guns N' Roses and I tell the rest you're going to join the band. "OK, Slash, Axl, Matt, guys, this guy is in the band". "Duff, you got a minute?" "No, he's in the band" "Well, no. Everyone in the band has to vote it, Duff, so no way!" "Fuck you, this guy is in the band! I'm not doing anything unless this guy is in the band" "OK, you know what? We'll try and play with him, since you're that much interested in it. Hey Duff, the guy can't play" "I don't care" "Well that's not very reasonable." "I don't care". At that point, what would you do? I came to a point where I couldn't even look at [Paul Huge]. If I were in such a situation, if I were the friend joining the band, I'd say "Hey guys, you've done very good yourselves alone, I'm not going any further. Hey, Duff, thanks for the offer, but I'm breaking your band." But he didn't say it [Popular 1, July 2000]

DUFF VERSION 2: Then Axl wanted to bring in a guy named Paul Huge. "You want to bring in your buddy from Indiana?" Slash said incredulously. "Look, he'll just jam with us and maybe it'll work out," Axl said. "No," both Slash and I said. "Yes," said Axl. This wasn't some wedding band you could just bring friends into. If I wasn't going to bend for the sake of one of my best friends - Slash , and his Southern-rock songs [which Slash wanted to use for GN'R's next record] - I sure as hell wasn't going to let a stranger come in and fuck around with Guns. "Fine," Axl said. "How's this: you guys try him out on your own, give him a few days." We let him come in. Gave him a couple of days. It was hopeless [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 242]

Poor Paul. It must have been hell to come into the band under those conditions.

AXL'S VERSION: The public gets a different story from the other guys ­ Slash, Duff, Matt - who have their own agendas. The original intentions between Paul and myself were that Paul was going to help me for as long as it took to get this thing together in whatever capacity that he could help me in. So when he first was brought into this, he was brought in as a writer to work with Slash. At the time those guys never suggested one name. Nobody else. Ever. Paul was one of the best people we knew who was both available and capable of complimenting Slash’s style.  [...] Paul was only interested in complimenting Slash, laying down a foundation of a riff or something. That would accent or encourage Slash's lead playing. Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn’t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash. He is and this is the bottom line a good man and that's the reality behind things. That doesn't change what took place with old Guns. I feel that some of the recordings we did in that limited amount of time had some of the best playing that Slash had done at least since Illusions. I was there. I know what I heard and it was pretty exciting.

Slash's account, from his book, implies that he was open to the idea when Axl suggested to bring in Paul, which is in complete disagreement with Duff's versions, but rejected the idea because Paul wasn't a good enough guitar player and had a bad personality, too.

SLASH'S VERSION: Axl [...] insisted on hiring Paul Huge, this guy he knew from Indiana who, for whatever reason, also calls himself Paul Tobias. They had history: the two of them cowrote 'Back Off Bitch' among other songs. I was open to the idea...until Paul showed up: he had no personality whatsoever and no particular guitar style or sound that I could identify with. He was, without doubt, the least interesting , most bland guy holding a guitar that I'd ever met. I tried my best to work with him, but it went nowhere. It was even more awkward then it sounds because our stilted interaction took place at rehearsal with everyone else watching us (...). No, it was useless; the guy was irredeemable. It was like talking to a wall,  a wall with a bad attitude. He was totally arrogant and gave off the vibe that he was Axl's boy, that he was in, and that everyone else had to deal with it [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York, p.377-378]

So what really happened? Here's is what I believe. Axl really wanted Paul in and thought he would be a good partner to Slash. Better than other players they had tested, like Zakk Wylde. Slash and Duff were angry with Axl at the time and REALLY didn't like Axl trying, probably not very diplomatically, to set them up with Paul without consulting them first. Slash also disliked Paul due to him playing on Sympathy for the Devil. Duff and Slash, on their part, were probably very difficult about this, as a consequence, and refused to even consider the idea. Axl then suggested, as a compromise - well-intentioned but doomed to fail - to test it out a bit, to do some rehearsals with Paul to see how it worked out. Duff and Slash were predisposed against Paul and it didn't work at all. Whether Paul really was as bad as Slash recounts is hard to say, it is difficult to trust Slash when his accounts always seem a bit reverse engineered. So Axl probably overstepped his bounds and could have gone about things more diplomatically, while Duff and Slash probably overreacted to the idea.

Either way, Slash and Duff left the band and Paul became a full member from 1997 and onwards.

I just did The reason I quoted Axl's account on Paul was to counter your claim that "he lasted 5 minutes" - he recorded foro CD and recorded much more material.

See - the thing here is, if Duff and Slash said no - then as a democratic thing, Axl should have told Paul that his services were no longer needed. There are also two other things happening around this time - Axl allegedly torpedoed an attempt by Duff and Slash to bring Izzy back into the fold (this is when those Izzy and Duff sessions took place) - and he also fired Gilby without consulting Duff and Slash which they were really pissed about. 

Duff even mentions this in his recollection of Paul - that they told Axl they couldn't play with Paul and Axl told them both to fuck off, Paul was staying in the band. 

So it's really a false equivalency here because, yes - perhaps Duff and Slash were predisposed to not liking the guy, but in the end, their vote to remove Paul was ignored by Axl. The band was no longer a democracy. That's really the point where the whole thing starts circling the drain.

[SoulMonster]

8 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

He wanted Tobias in, even going so far as to wax lyrically about him at Rio 3 - ''without Paul there would be no Guns N' Roses'' - yet only played a handful of gigs with the guy; instead, Tobias vanished into oblivion, whether it is as Axl says that it is, that he ''didn't want to play live'', your guess is as good as mine? Despite all that, sacking your extent rhythm guitarist Gilby, jeopardising your musical/personal relationship with Slash over an interloping rhythm guitarist, Tobias lasted five minutes and Rose had to hire another one in Fortus!

What a dysfunctional mess of a band!

Let me point out a few more things:

- Yes, he wanted Paul Huge in, but supposedly mostly as a partner to Slash to help fuel creativity when they were making a new record, not necesarrily to play live gigs. You could argue that it doesn't matter that he only played four shows, because that wasn't why Axl wanted him in the band. Axl himself admitted that Paul wasn't a great guitarist, but obviously liked him as a song writer and thought that his rhythm guitar playing style would accentuate Slash's.

- You imply that Gilby was sacked to make room for Paul. I have never heard this before. Firstly, he wasn't sacked as much as not given a new contract. Axl claims it was because he couldn't write with Gilby. Slash and Duff have never insinuated it was because Axl wanted Paul in. Secondly, Gilby left the band in 1994, Paul was introduced as a possible new band member in 1996. So the tiing doesn't really fit (he did play at Sympathy in 1994, though). Anyway, I am not saying you are wrong, just that I would like some sources foro this assertion.

- Trying to introduce Paul as a new band member CERTAINLY jeopardised the relationship between Axl and Slash, but you make it out as if this wasn't already more or less ruined. It was the straw that broke the camel's back, in my opinion, not the entire reason as Slash would insinuate right after.

- And then the point about Paul only lasting five minutes. Yes, as a live lineup rhythm guitarist he only lasted for a short while. But as a writing and recoding band member, he has made much more of an impact (as I wrote soe more about in my last post).

- Dysfunctional mess? Absolutely

[RONIN]

8 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

He wanted Tobias in, even going so far as to wax lyrically about him at Rio 3 - ''without Paul there would be no Guns N' Roses'' - yet only played a handful of gigs with the guy; instead, Tobias vanished into oblivion, whether it is as Axl says that it is, that he ''didn't want to play live'', your guess is as good as mine? Despite all that, sacking your extent rhythm guitarist Gilby, jeopardising your musical/personal relationship with Slash over an interloping rhythm guitarist, Tobias lasted five minutes and Rose had to hire another one in Fortus!

What a dysfunctional mess of a band!

 

What an incredible miscalculation on Axl's part. One wonders whether Axl looks back upon this time with any regret - that he literally sacrificed 20 years of his life and broke up a legendary band for the sake of Paul Tobias. All this talk about Axl changing the musical direction of the band in '95 is really a secondary issue here - it's really his intractability with Tobias that sets the dominoes to fall. 

Tobias is basically the godfather of Chinese Democracy because without him as a catalyst, that doomed project would never have happened.

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, RONIN said:

See - the thing here is, if Duff and Slash said no - then as a democratic thing, Axl should have told Paul that his services were no longer needed. There are also two other things happening around this time - Axl allegedly torpedoed an attempt by Duff and Slash to bring Izzy back into the fold (this is when those Izzy and Duff sessions took place) - and he also fired Gilby without consulting Duff and Slash which they were really pissed about. 

Duff even mentions this in his recollection of Paul - that they told Axl they couldn't play with Paul and Axl told them both to fuck off, Paul was staying in the band. 

So it's really a false equivalency here because, yes - perhaps Duff and Slash were predisposed to not liking the guy, but in the end, their vote to remove Paul was ignored by Axl. The band was no longer a democracy. That's really the point where the whole thing starts circling the drain.

Yes, Axl was overstepping his bounds by slowly becoming the boss of the band and making decisions alone (this really started MUCH earlier) causing a huge amount of resentment among Duff and Slash who seem completely impotent in preveting this from happening. This resentment reared its ugly head in their treatment of Paul, I believe. Anyway, no one is a hero here.