Axl vs. Freddie Mercury

[coolranchdressing!]

55 minutes ago, Pishy said:

His name is Freddie and although Axl is a very handsome man, I think Freddie is extremely good looking, certainly a deeper beauty but that will vary with everyone and besides the point. We are talking about talent.  The default for those who don't know Queen's work is, "Freddie's voice was theatrical", so they can seem like they know something, you just know the soundbite, doesn't mean much.  He wasn't a god damn Broadway singer, he was a rock singer and yes, he had a number of styles no doubt but if you knew any of his rock songs, you would not call him "theatrical". I hate Broadway musicals because of the heinous singing that jangles every last one of my nerves, that sure as hell is not Freddie. Had it been the case, there are far better "theatrical" , professionally trained snores out there and there would be no Freddie.  

And when it comes to anger, frustration and sorrow, no one in rock history,  expressed it like Freddie. But he also was able to convey love and hope, mortality, fear, joy, Freddie could reach emotional depths that I don't think anyone has ever been able to replicate musically. He was a highly developed person, a conscious one. Someone like Axl, could be reached and understood by Freddie, but not the reverse, Freddie could also make sense of things, teach. He was on another level in every respect. 

Don't listen to Queen ever, but it is disingenuous to negate what Freddie is in order to create a contrast or provide a false analysis.  

No it's not a sound bite. It's what I feel (if you read my words). It's my opinion. There's nothing wrong with theatrics. He has good control and range. But it's not gritty and dirty. I prefer an edge. In my opinion Freddy lacks that. As for emotional depth...that's your opinion. I feel Tina Turner and other soul singers are far more "touching" in their use of their voice (I'm not talking about lyrics here). This, however, is based on opinion. 

[SoulMonster]

8 hours ago, Pishy said:

@SoulMonster it's not in the US, the younger generations have been conditioned to hate anything not current, even humans. Old is the dirtiest word around here.  The reasons for that tie into the political agenda which is not relevant here but that's the fact, maybe different in Britain. The only exception is if it's currently trendy to brand something old , but again it's showcasing the brand of the moment that's the appeal.

Okay.

[SoulMonster]

4 hours ago, Pishy said:

His name is Freddie and although Axl is a very handsome man, I think Freddie is extremely good looking, certainly a deeper beauty but that will vary with everyone and besides the point. We are talking about talent.  The default for those who don't know Queen's work is, "Freddie's voice was theatrical", so they can seem like they know something, you just know the soundbite, doesn't mean much.  He wasn't a god damn Broadway singer, he was a rock singer and yes, he had a number of styles no doubt but if you knew any of his rock songs, you would not call him "theatrical". I hate Broadway musicals because of the heinous singing that jangles every last one of my nerves, that sure as hell is not Freddie. Had it been the case, there are far better "theatrical" , professionally trained snores out there and there would be no Freddie.  

And when it comes to anger, frustration and sorrow, no one in rock history,  expressed it like Freddie. But he also was able to convey love and hope, mortality, fear, joy, Freddie could reach emotional depths that I don't think anyone has ever been able to replicate musically. He was a highly developed person, a conscious one. Someone like Axl, could be reached and understood by Freddie, but not the reverse, Freddie could also make sense of things, teach. He was on another level in every respect. 

Don't listen to Queen ever, but it is disingenuous to negate what Freddie is in order to create a contrast or provide a false analysis.  

He was very theatrical. His whole persona. His singing. You can visualize the bleeding pathos whenever you hear him sing. But hey, that's fine if you like that kinda stuff. I like it in some songs, and not so much in others. I absolutely abhor it in others. But yeah, Freddie was a great singer. Just not as great as some will have it, in my never humble opinion.

Objectivelly speaking, as far as we can quantifiably measure voices, Axl was the better singer. He had the widest range and could both sing lower and higher than Freddie. There might be other metrics that I don't know of, though.

Subjectivelly speaking, most people would say they preferred the tonal qualities of Freddie's voice. He had purer notes. Axl has a scraggy rock voice. Freddie was more classically trained. His voice didn't jar with people, generally speaking. Axl's squeaking is hated by many. But that is entirely subjective.

[purplestargirl]

As much as I love Axl's singing, he can never beat Freddie.

Edited August 23, 2017 by purplestargirl

[Len Cnut]

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What's your point? The fact is, Queen expanded the horizons of many listeners, many who would outright reject many genres unless a trusted teacher of sorts, introduced them to it. Not everyone has the privledge of being exposed to various art forms.  

Sorry, what are we arguing now, that Queen successfully bought ballet to the masses?  The point is that its insubstantial and puerile and they take things like rock music and make them remote from the general public and end up the preserve of chin-scratching middle class student types.  There's nothing wrong with 'other art forms', great, brilliant, go seek em out if you're interested, why does this never happen in substantial ballet or substantial theatre?  Why did Harold Pinter never make 'a rock n roll play', wa-hey, lets bring rock n roll to the upper classes?  Its cuz rock n roll ain't considered an art form or respected by people that try to use it as an instrument to bring civilisation to the barbarians.  There is an implicit disrespect there.  That whole prog/stadium rock era would have fuckin' killed rock n roll if it hadn't had a full stop forcibly put to it.

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The reason Freddie was so magnificent is he had the unique experience of eastern and western influences and delved into both spheres, he explored everything from rock, to rap, opera, athaan, folk, classical etc

Oh yeah, what eastern influences would those be, go on   What the fucks an athaan anyway?!?

Edited August 23, 2017 by Len Cnut

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

6 hours ago, coolranchdressing! said:

No it's not a sound bite. It's what I feel (if you read my words). It's my opinion. There's nothing wrong with theatrics. He has good control and range. But it's not gritty and dirty. I prefer an edge. In my opinion Freddy lacks that. As for emotional depth...that's your opinion. I feel Tina Turner and other soul singers are far more "touching" in their use of their voice (I'm not talking about lyrics here). This, however, is based on opinion. 

Yeah, ultimately, an artist's appeal is related to how you connect with that artist, which has everything to do with you: your memories, your emotional baggage, what's going on in your life at the time, what turns you on.  The artist merely offers himself as is, and you take from him what you will.  

So although these debates are mighty entertaining, they are fundamentally pointless.  An artist will mean different things to different people, for different reasons.  

[Len Cnut]

Everyone has a degree of theatrics to their game, no ones 'themselves' onstage as such, being onstage is not a natural state of being.

[SoulMonster]

7 hours ago, Pishy said:

And when it comes to anger, frustration and sorrow, no one in rock history,  expressed it like Freddie. But he also was able to convey love and hope, mortality, fear, joy, Freddie could reach emotional depths that I don't think anyone has ever been able to replicate musically. He was a highly developed person, a conscious one. Someone like Axl, could be reached and understood by Freddie, but not the reverse, Freddie could also make sense of things, teach. He was on another level in every respect.

Unknown to many, Freddie was also the first man on the moon, taught classes in Sanskrit and could divide by zero.

[SoulMonster]

12 hours ago, Pishy said:

The reason Freddie was so magnificent is he had the unique experience of eastern and western influences and delved into both spheres, he explored everything from rock, to rap, opera, athaan, folk, classical etc.  Even his band mates, who were brilliant talents, said some of the things Freddie came up with they didn't understand but it was so personal to Freddie.  They were some seriously cool people to not restrain that but get involved and experience something new. That's a real group of musicians .

Yes, Freddie delved into the Eastern sphere and attempted to use Eastern influences in his art, albeit awkwardly. Because Freddie is widely considered somewhat of an Eastern acolyte, a dilletante, someone who never really reached the depths of what Eastern music has to offer and rather just touched its surface. Not at all like Axl. No person in history, or future, has to such an extent, and with such success, combined Eastern and Western music and culture in general, as Axl. Axl even spent years in China learning Tibetean throat singing. Axl  as toured in almost evevry Asian country. Axl even used Chinese philosophy and politics a lyrical anchoring point on GN'R's latest album. Wow!

Besides, what value does even Eastern music have? If it was anything but shite I'd be listening to it now instead of American rock.

[DieselDaisy]

40 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Besides, what value does even Eastern music have? If it was anything but shite I'd be listening to it now instead of American rock.

What an ignorant comment.

[baldek]

43 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Besides, what value does even Eastern music have? If it was anything but shite I'd be listening to it now instead of American rock.

With the colonization of America from European countries like France, Spain, Scotland, England, Ireland, and Wales came Christian choirs, musical notation, broadsides, as well as West African slaves. West African slaves played a variety of instruments, especially drums and string instruments similar to the banjo. The Spanish also played a similar instrument called the Bandora. Both of these cultures introduced polyrhythms and call-and-response style vocals.

As the United States incorporated more land, spreading west towards the Ocean, more immigrants began to arrive in the country, bringing with them their own instruments and styles. During this time, the United States grew to incorporate the Cajun and Creole music of Louisiana, the Polynesian music of Hawaii and Tex-Mex and Tejano music. Immigrants brought with them the Eastern European polka, Chinese and Japanese music, and Polish fiddling, Scottish and Irish music, Ashkenazi Jewish klezmer, and other styles of Indian, Russian, French, German, Italian, Arab and Latin music.

[SoulMonster]

In two posts where I was obviously taking the piss (divide by zero? throat singing? Axl being a scholar of Asian art?) you guys actually thought I suddently became serious and tacked on a sentence expressing ignorance and contempt for Eastern music? Really? I will excuse you baldek, since I don't know you and I suppose you don't know me, either. But you, Diesel, should know better than to be a victim of a blant -- and successful -- attempt at winding up. I didn't even attempt at getting a rise out of you, although that was a bonus, it was Pishy and his recent posts showing disdain for American culture and a love for Asian culture, that was the target. You really are gullible, Diesel.

[Len Cnut]

Quote

Polish fiddling,

[DieselDaisy]

12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

In two posts where I was obviously taking the piss (divide by zero? throat singing? Axl being a scholar of Asian art?) you guys actually thought I suddently became serious and tacked on a sentence expressing ignorance and contempt for Eastern music? Really? I will excuse you baldek, since I don't know you and I suppose you don't know me, either. But you, Diesel, should know better than to be a victim of a blant -- and successful -- attempt at winding up. I didn't even attempt at getting a rise out of you, although that was a bonus, it was Pishy and his recent posts showing disdain for American culture and a love for Asian culture, that was the target. You really are gullible, Diesel.

Well you have said some absolute tripe over the last few days so it is difficult to spot.

[SoulMonster]

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well you have said some absolute tripe over the last few days so it is difficult to spot.

Aww, you just mad because I proved you wrong about Freddie being a technically better singer than Axl in "every which way".

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Aww, you just mad because I proved you wrong about Freddie being a technically better singer than Axl in "every which way".

No you didn't. You've never proven me wrong not once on here. You could jabber about your science or your Man U even and you still couldn't prove me wrong.

[SoulMonster]

9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

No you didn't. You've never proven me wrong not once on here. You could jabber about your science or your Man U even and you still couldn't prove me wrong.

Diesel: Freddie is a better singer than Axl in every which way

Me: Axl has a wider vocal range than Freddie had, so in that way Axl is a better singer

Diesel under the influence of the backfire effect: You have never proven we wrong not once on here.

Edited August 23, 2017 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Diesel: Freddie is a better singer than Axl in every which way

Me: Axl has a wider vocal range than Freddie had, so in that way Axl is a better singer

Diesel under the influence of the backfire effect: You have never proven we wrong not once on here.

Rose sings with a craggy throat. How the heck is he supposed to be better than a singer who sings with clarity?

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Rose sings with a craggy throat. How the heck is he supposed to be better than a singer who sings with clarity?

Yeah, this is beyond you.

[moreblack]

If they think Queen is all piano broadway musical stuff, they forget Freddie had Brian May. Brian could be as heavy as Blackmore or Iommi when he wanted.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

28 minutes ago, tremolo said:

I understand that this comes from personal preferences, which is all good.

But Axl's fashion, style and attitude has been borrowed from day 1. So, if we can talk about cultural impact, it would be more accurate to say that he was influenced by others in his style, fashion and attitude. It had all been seen before. He did make those things part of his iconic image though, but portraying him as an innovator  in that regard is giving him too much credit. Let's just say he rocked the trends that others set for him.

Yeah, agree with you that Axl wore his influences on his sleeve, quite literally. ha!  He, in turn, then influenced a generation of youths to go around wearing his 'style' on their sleeves so to speak.    So I gave him props for that.  By contrast, I don't think anyone was going around dressing like Freddie Mercury, as far as I can recall (which is what this was in relation to).  I was using sex appeal and fashion i.e. cultural impact as something with which to separate the two because I had to nitpick in the end.  I had to ask myself why do I think Axl should be ahead of Freddie for frontman?  And that was what it came down to.  For me.

Edit: Also, now that I think on it some more, I'd put Axl ahead of Freddie for frontman because of Axl's insanity on stage.  Again, subjective.  Not everyone likes a borderline insane frontman.  I guess I do. 

Edited August 23, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

1 minute ago, tremolo said:

But that would be like people dressing like Bowie or Prince... nobody can do that without looking like a hack, because they had their own personal style, so unique to them.

But I think the key word here is, 'influence'.  Axl was influenced by those who came before him; he didn't copy them outright.  He made his look his own.  I think so anyway.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

In any case, if we're on the subject of Axl and his personal style, we could be talking about numerous styles really.

There are 2 classic (or iconic if you will) images of Axl:

 - The cop hat, aviator glasses, leathers, long hair.

 - The bandana look (sometimes with backwards cap).  Which also features the glasses, leathers, long hair. 

Then he went into a huge variety of styles from the bike shorts, to the kilt, to grungy jeans and oversized t-ghirt, and Joan Collins style fur coats which he was particularly fond of.  There were so many.  I never liked his beard era.

Edited August 23, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[DieselDaisy]

Didn't Rose rip the bandana off from The Cult and the snake dance from some hair band singer (whose name I cannot recall)?

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Didn't Rose rip the bandana off from The Cult and the snake dance from some hair band singer (whose name I cannot recall)?

I don't know if he ripped off the bandana style from The Cult or not etc.   The point is (and why I gave him props) is music fans and even the general public now associate his image with those things.