Pope accused spreading heresy

[classicrawker]

Religion is a  sensitive topic so I hope posters can remain respectful in their responses........

I  was raised Catholic but pretty much became an atheist in my teens when I started to figure out  I did not believe in the Church's teachings.

Now I respect those who do believe, as my wife is a devote Catholic, but  these people are still living in the Dark Ages IMHO.

Pope Francis is the best thing that has happened to the Catholic Church in modern times and is trying to change the church to become more tolerant I think............If I was him I would get myself a food taster............

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/world/pope-heresy/index.html

[Ace Nova]

12 minutes ago, classicrawker said:

Religion is a  sensitive topic so I hope posters can remain respectful in their responses........

I  was raised Catholic but pretty much became an atheist in my teens when I started to figure out  I did not believe in the Church's teachings.

Now I respect those who do believe, as my wife is a devote Catholic, but  these people are still living in the Dark Ages IMHO.

Pope Francis is the best thing that has happened to the Catholic Church in modern times and is trying to change the church to become more tolerant I think............If I was him I would get myself a food taster............

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/world/pope-heresy/index.html

2

"None of the heresy letter's signees are cardinals or bishops in good standing within the Catholic church."

'Nuff said.  Seems like more liberal media propaganda spreading...especially since they worded it "Conservatives accuse Pope....." 

 

[soon]

Its understandable that given that Popes change their names upon receiving the role that many will be unaware of their past.  And add that he makes promises for progressive change that the Curia will never implement and/0r withdraw after he leaves the role.  And he might seem like a lesser evil then his predecessor.

Pope Francis fed communion wafers directly into the mouths of the far-right, US backed junta fighters, torturers, murderers and officers of Argentinas Dirty War.  He rejected voices in The Catholic church that spoke of mercy and justice for the poor.  He did nothing to oppose the 30 000 disappearances during the Dirty War which took countless other lives to secure US interests in the region.  He was a major pilar supporting the most violent machinations of Neo Liberal destabilization in the region.  This idea that he is at all left and a threat to the right is absolutely absurd.  Sure he admits to mistakes.  "Mistakes" meanwhile the Mothers and Grandmothers of Plaza de Mayo still gather and act to find their kidnapped and murdered children.  

Those children were murdered by troops trained at the School of the Americas in the USA, currently called Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation which is located in the US at Fort Benning, Georgia.  If he was truly remorseful he would now be a voice to close the School of Assassins just as he used his power to support the decimation of the organized poor of Argentina.

That silence, support and giving of communion to murderers was Heretic.  That was in way before he became Pope.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-09-23/was-pope-francis-silent-during-argentinas-dirty-war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothers_of_the_Plaza_de_Mayo

http://www.soaw.org/about-the-soawhinsec/what-is-the-soawhinsec

https://books.google.ca/books/about/Revolutionizing_Motherhood.html?id=eIfrQs27n_wC

Edited September 26, 2017 by soon

[DieselDaisy]

The previous Pope was in the Hitler Youth from which The Sun created one of my favourite headlines - I do love Sun headlines: ''he Panzer Pope'' haha. 

[soon]

Even as the Catholic Churches own are murdered by SOA grads.

Oscar Romero.  Presente!

Celia Ramos.  Presente!

Elba Ramos.   Presente!

"In El Salvador, SOA graduates killed Celia Ramos, her mother, Elba, and six Jesuit priests at the University of Central America in San Salvador on Nov. 16, 1989."

https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/road-peace/honor-soa-victims-no-m-s-no-more

http://www.ipsnews.net/2008/11/rights-el-salvador-ex-president-cristiani-faces-charges-in-spain/

http://web.stanford.edu/class/e297a/The U.S. and the S.O.A..htm

 

[AtariLegend]

Honestly disappointed by the story, when I seen the title I instantly thought "Trump's probably accused the Pope of Hersey".

[Graeme]

The abbreviations on the forum listings made it look like the Pope might be up to dirtier tricks...

[Len Cnut]

I thought the popes meant to be infallible?  

[SoulMonster]

50 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I thought the popes meant to be infallible?  

Yes! How the fuck do they dare to challenge God's representative on Earth?

[Len Cnut]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes! How the fuck do they dare to challenge God's representative on Earth?

Fuckin liberty innit?

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Fuckin liberty innit?

They will be smote, smite, smitten.

[Len Cnut]

15 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

They will be smote, smite, smitten.

There'll be smit all over the gaff I'd imagine!  Papal infallibility has got to be wearing thin in the 21st Century surely.  I wonder if the Pope drinks.  I mean like properly drinks.  I mean if he gets rat arsed, goes all slurry, puts his arm around his mate and goes 'you know what it is mate, the thing is right...its all the jews!' does that then come under papal infallibility too?   I suppose he'd never make it, I mean it'd raise a few eyebrows eh, the Pope down The Rat and Parrot.  Maybe if he took off the all gear and got some Trefoil Adidas on.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Len Cnut

[Graeme]

9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

There'll be smit all over the gaff I'd imagine!  Papal infallibility has got to be wearing thin in the 21st Century surely.  I wonder if the Pope drinks.  I mean like properly drinks.  I mean if he gets rat arsed, goes all slurry, puts his arm around his mate and goes 'you know what it is mate, the thing is right...its all the jews!' does that then come under papal infallibility too?   I suppose he'd never make it, I mean it'd raise a few eyebrows eh, the Pope down The Rat and Parrot.  Maybe if he took off the all gear and got some Trefoil Adidas on.

After the last Pope Benedict, the correct expression is "Ratzingered"...

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

I thought the popes meant to be infallible?  

Doctrinal, pertaining to his office.

56 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

There'll be smit all over the gaff I'd imagine!  Papal infallibility has got to be wearing thin in the 21st Century surely.  I wonder if the Pope drinks.  I mean like properly drinks.  I mean if he gets rat arsed, goes all slurry, puts his arm around his mate and goes 'you know what it is mate, the thing is right...its all the jews!' does that then come under papal infallibility too?   I suppose he'd never make it, I mean it'd raise a few eyebrows eh, the Pope down The Rat and Parrot.  Maybe if he took off the all gear and got some Trefoil Adidas on.

You've never met many Catholics, have you? The greatest tipplers to have ever lived. They even brew their own booze - case in point Buckfast. It is the low-church Protestants, your Methodists and Evangelicals and American types, which tend to be teetotalers.

[Len Cnut]

15 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Doctrinal, pertaining to his office.

You've never met many Catholics, have you? The greatest tipplers to have ever lived. They even brew their own booze - case in point Buckfast. It is the low-church Protestants, your Methodists and Evangelicals and American types, which tend to be teetotalers.

So you're saying the popes a pisshead? 😂

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

There'll be smit all over the gaff I'd imagine!  Papal infallibility has got to be wearing thin in the 21st Century surely.  I wonder if the Pope drinks.  I mean like properly drinks.  I mean if he gets rat arsed, goes all slurry, puts his arm around his mate and goes 'you know what it is mate, the thing is right...its all the jews!' does that then come under papal infallibility too?   I suppose he'd never make it, I mean it'd raise a few eyebrows eh, the Pope down The Rat and Parrot.  Maybe if he took off the all gear and got some Trefoil Adidas on.

http://www.theonion.com/article/pope-francis-spotted-sunbathing-nude-st-peters-squ-55472

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Len Cnut said:

So you're saying the popes a pisshead? 😂

There is doctrinal support for this. Jesus converted water into wine. What was the Last Supper but a gigantic piss-up?

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

http://www.theonion.com/article/pope-francis-spotted-sunbathing-nude-st-peters-squ-55472

Pope Francis Sneaks Leftovers To False God Moloch At Back Door Of St. Peter’s Basilica

http://www.theonion.com/article/pope-francis-sneaks-leftovers-false-god-moloch-bac-55271

[SoulMonster]

This is, btw, my favorite pope story: http://www.theonion.com/article/aging-pope-just-blessing-everything-in-sight-say-c-1585

It's about the logistical nightmare of having to preserve all the sacred shit that the senile Pope John created in his confused blessing sprees.

[Gracii Guns]

A note on the Pope's infallibility:

A Pope's infallibility is limited. A Pope is human, therefore is expected to sin. He isn't expected to be perfect 100% of the time.

The infallibility comes when he signs certain (and very few and far between documents) which become part of the church's magisterium.

There are actually very few beliefs which are declared infallible, but they are mostly Biblically based truths. I.e. that Jesus is the son of God. The basic stuff. 

Most of the rest of any Pope's writings don't come with the infallible seal, they are just explorations of theology and philosophy. There's also some stuff which is considered best practise guidelines but is open to change in the future (i.e. the church's teaching on marriage). There's also alot of catholic cultural stuff which is useful but no way has the infallible seal, e.g. abstaining from meat on Fridays.

In this particular case, he annoys alot of "proper" theologians because he isn't one. Pope Francis' strong suit is pastoral care, and that's the approach he's taken. Basically, the people who loved Pope Benedict aren't as keen on Francis, because he's not the theologian Benedict was. 

 -----

And as for Pope Francis giving communion to people you might not like; it is the responsibility of the laypeople to present themselves for communion if they are in a state of grace (i.e. have been to confession recently). It's not something a priest is able to judge for each individual during a Mass. 

Now I know that the Pope isn't ever going to be a popular character on this forum, but I thought I'd better weigh in as someone who actually knows about the church. Please don't respond to me with the usual "but, but, but YOU'RE DEFENDING A PAEDOPHILE/MAFIA/LUNATIC" etc. because I don't rise to that shit. My faith is the most beautiful thing in my life and I'm not changing because someone on the internet disagrees with me.

[Len Cnut]

3 minutes ago, Gracii Guns said:

A note on the Pope's infallibility:

A Pope's infallibility is limited. A Pope is human, therefore is expected to sin. He isn't expected to be perfect 100% of the time.

The infallibility comes when he signs certain (and very few and far between documents) which become part of the church's magisterium.

There are actually very few beliefs which are declared infallible, but they are mostly Biblically based truths. I.e. that Jesus is the son of God. The basic stuff. 

Most of the rest of any Pope's writings don't come with the infallible seal, they are just explorations of theology and philosophy. There's also some stuff which is considered best practise guidelines but is open to change in the future (i.e. the church's teaching on marriage). There's also alot of catholic cultural stuff which is useful but no way has the infallible seal, e.g. abstaining from meat on Fridays.

In this particular case, he annoys alot of "proper" theologians because he isn't one. Pope Francis' strong suit is pastoral care, and that's the approach he's taken. Basically, the people who loved Pope Benedict aren't as keen on Francis, because he's not the theologian Benedict was. 

 -----

And as for Pope Francis giving communion to people you might not like; it is the responsibility of the laypeople to present themselves for communion if they are in a state of grace (i.e. have been to confession recently). It's not something a priest is able to judge for each individual during a Mass. 

Now I know that the Pope isn't ever going to be a popular character on this forum, but I thought I'd better weigh in as someone who actually knows about the church. Please don't respond to me with the usual "but, but, but YOU'RE DEFENDING A PAEDOPHILE/MAFIA/LUNATIC" etc. because I don't rise to that shit. My faith is the most beautiful thing in my life and I'm not changing because someone on the internet disagrees with me.

YOU'RE DEFENDING A MAFIA PEDOPHILE LUNATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Only joking!   So where did I get this idea about infallibility then, is it just one of them things that people generally misunderstand?  I thought it was an actual thing. 

[Gracii Guns]

11 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

YOU'RE DEFENDING A MAFIA PEDOPHILE LUNATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Only joking!   So where did I get this idea about infallibility then, is it just one of them things that people generally misunderstand?  I thought it was an actual thing. 

Yes, it's one of the many things people misunderstand. Probably has early Reformation origins, where Catholicism was made illegal, and to help enforce that culturally, it was treated with suspicion. So lots of nonsense was made up to try to establish the Church of England as a "truer" faith than the Pope-worshipping Catholics. (The hokey cokey has the same origins). Honestly, I've not met a single non-Catholic Christian who hasn't believed one of the many popular lies about the Catholic church. So considering you're an irreligious Muslim, I'd give you a get out of jail free pass for not knowing that. 

[soon]

Genocidal militias backed by USA to steal peasants land, who killed tens of thousands of people of all ages certainly are people I might not like.  Seems like a huge flaw in system that torturers, murders and rapists get to opt in or out of communion.  Especially when everyone knows who they are.  Ex-communication is Biblical; from the mouth of Christ and also in letters from Peter, Paul, John and as described by Luke in his Acts of the Apostles.

Other Clergy did reject the junta terrorists and act for justice.  As Did Axl Rose when he at first refused to play a stadium in Argentina were a junta massacre took place.

Axl for Pope!  

Rest In Power Oscar Romero!

[Gracii Guns]

Quote

Seems like a huge flaw in system that torturers, murders and rapists get to opt in or out of communion.

Forgiveness is a very Biblical thing too. Jesus dined with the guy who was the gateway to his murder. The flaw in the system… is the system! (I.e. Christianity welcomes everyone regardless of their behaviour).  

-----

If Axl becomes Pope I am absolutely not doing this moderation gig any longer. Sounds like a nightmare. 

And it sounds like Oscar Romero's getting the nudge towards sainthood thanks to Pope Francis.  

[Dazey]

40 minutes ago, Gracii Guns said:

Forgiveness is a very Biblical thing too. 

Well if you're going to make every little tiny thing a sin then you pretty much have to be big on forgiveness.  

Edited September 27, 2017 by Dazey