Pope accused spreading heresy

[DieselDaisy]

Papal infallibility is Catholic dogma. It existed for centuries, based upon Biblical precedents, and was made canonical in the First Ecumenical Council of 1869-70. It does not mean that the ''Pope cannot sin'' but is affiliated to his office and his role as head of the episcopacy,

Quote

This Sacred Council, following closely in the footsteps of the First Vatican Council, with that Council teaches and declares that Jesus Christ, the eternal Shepherd, established His holy Church, having sent forth the apostles as He Himself had been sent by the Father;(136) and He willed that their successors, namely the bishops, should be shepherds in His Church even to the consummation of the world. And in order that the episcopate itself might be one and undivided, He placed Blessed Peter over the other apostles, and instituted in him a permanent and visible source and foundation of unity of faith and communion. And all this teaching about the institution, the perpetuity, the meaning and reason for the sacred primacy of the Roman Pontiff and of his infallible magisterium, this Sacred Council again proposes to be firmly believed by all the faithful.

Lumen Gentium, 18.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

 

[soon]

21 minutes ago, Gracii Guns said:

Forgiveness is a very Biblical thing too. Jesus dined with the guy who was the gateway to his murder. The flaw in the system… is the system! (I.e. Christianity welcomes everyone regardless of their behaviour).  

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If Axl becomes Pope I am absolutely not doing this moderation gig any longer. Sounds like a nightmare. 

And it sounds like Oscar Romero's getting the nudge towards sainthood thanks to Pope Francis.  

I appreciate this is less then pleasant to discuss.  and I like and respect you.  But I will respond.  If it goes to shit Id prefer to just leave well enough be.

Ha!  With Axl reuniting GNR AND fronting Ac Dc, guesting with Billy Joel and stuff; I wouldn't be so surprised if he became Pope! haha!  But stay on if so - it would be awesome!

 

Seeking forgiveness is Biblical.  We offer grace to the unrepentant and forgiveness to the repentant.  The Bible links accountability to forgiveness,  like in Luke 18 with Zacchaeus where he doesnt merely get forgiven, but sells possessions to repay those he stole from.  When Jesus got around to hang out with the occupying forces ( the junta of his time) they killed him before he had a chance to dine with them.  Because thats reality off the page.  And thats after fleeing arrest numerous times.  He led an uprising against the sins of the Empire.

Christianity doesnt actually accept everyone.  In this day and age some might jump to conclusions about current issues, but thats not what Im speaking too at all.  Jesus, Paul, Peter and John talk about ex-communicating frauds - those who profess Christ but act in opposite way.  Accounts in Scripture of both inter-personal ex-communication and organizational ex-communication.

You mention Judas dines with Christ but I would point out that Judas was then immediately ex-communicated by the Apostles.  Peters denial was forgiven, Judas betrayal was not.

We are open to anyone coming to Christianity and we hang out with un-repentent sinners but we dont call them Christians.  Christians, one could say, are sinners who seek both forgiveness and liberty from their ongoing sins.  That description would define zero of the SOA grad Junta terrorists I would think.

[Silent Jay]

The Pope is a Jesuit. You have to understand that, who they are.

 

He also used to be a nightclub bouncer.

[Gracii Guns]

4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Nice, very jovial pregnant lady describes something I consider to be one of the biggest evils in the world as the most beautiful thing in her life...fuck my life. Can you at least admit how tragically frustrating that is? 

Whenever someone disagrees with you do you just dig in your heels and disregard their reasons or is that only reserved for folks like me on the innernette?  

Yeah, I can understand how that would irritate you. 

Honestly, few people IRL ask me about my faith, and when they do, it's a conversation. I can dig my heels in on the internet, because I don't have a context, I don't know the person I'm talking to, and I could easily be talking to a time waster/troll. These things are hard to judge, and in the post above I didn't disregard anyone's reasons, just provided some insight. There is a lot of absolute nonsense about the Catholic Church which is spread on the internet. If I am going to talk about what I know at all, I have to be clear and absolutist on it. But experience tells me nobody actually cares anyway. 

And what's me being pregnant got to do with anything? 

[janrichmond]

Religion is a tough thing to discuss unless everyone has the same beliefs.I have no religious beliefs at all but my line of work brings me in contact with religious types of all faiths, all my colleagues know about my lack of faith and not one has ever tried to talk me around to their way of thinking they respect it, as i accept their beliefs. 

[Len Cnut]

11 hours ago, Gracii Guns said:

Yeah, I can understand how that would irritate you. 

Honestly, few people IRL ask me about my faith, and when they do, it's a conversation. I can dig my heels in on the internet, because I don't have a context, I don't know the person I'm talking to, and I could easily be talking to a time waster/troll. These things are hard to judge, and in the post above I didn't disregard anyone's reasons, just provided some insight. There is a lot of absolute nonsense about the Catholic Church which is spread on the internet. If I am going to talk about what I know at all, I have to be clear and absolutist on it. But experience tells me nobody actually cares anyway. 

And what's me being pregnant got to do with anything? 

It makes you a glowey beacon of goodness, as opposed to the wretched example of humanity that our dear ol' goat is

Nah, I wont hear a word against ol' goatboy, as the only mauri on the forum its our duty to make him feel welcome.  Now haka with me!

[soon]

6 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

 

Nah, I wont hear a word against ol' goatboy, as the only mauri on the forum its our duty to make him feel welcome.  Now haka with me!

Is Len trying to start a 'Goat is Maori' gag to distract from the reality of Lens lisp?

[Len Cnut]

16 minutes ago, soon said:

Is Len trying to start a 'Goat is Maori' gag to distract from the reality of Lens lisp?

I woulda got away with it too if wasn't for you meddling kids!

I tell you what i do have is a stutter, it doesn't show up all the time though.  It'd be funny if i did have a lisp with the stutter though, the person i was thpeaking too would be covered in gob inside 5 seconds

[soon]

7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I woulda got away with it too if wasn't for you meddling kids!

I tell you what i do have is a stutter, it doesn't show up all the time though.  It'd be funny if i did have a lisp with the stutter though, the person i was thpeaking too would be covered in gob inside 5 seconds

I smoked you out fast! 

And it would serve us right for being jerks!

[The Real McCoy]

I was raised in a very Roman Catholic household, but I'm a non-denominational Christian at this point. I drifted away from the church and religion for a while, but my faith is now stronger than it ever was, to be honest. I still haven't had a chance to find a new church since I moved to Maryland a few months ago, but it's something that's on the list. Honestly, that's what I probably miss the most about Pennsylvania: my church, Bible Study group, and the fellowship among the community. It was a younger congregation - a lot of people around my age, so it was pretty much the perfect situation for me.

All of that being said, I don't like this Pope. Not one bit. Keep in mind, I'm VERY conservative in a lot of my views, and this Pope is just WAY too liberal for my liking. He could be the false Pope or Anti-Pope that's been spoken of in prophecy, because he doesn't seem like much of a Godly man to me. He's way too tied in to the globalist mentality, and I'm very much a believer in sovereignty.

Non-denominational Christianity has worked wonders for me as a person, though. So, there's that.

[classicrawker]

3 hours ago, The Real McCoy said:

I was raised in a very Roman Catholic household, but I'm a non-denominational Christian at this point. I drifted away from the church and religion for a while, but my faith is now stronger than it ever was, to be honest. I still haven't had a chance to find a new church since I moved to Maryland a few months ago, but it's something that's on the list. Honestly, that's what I probably miss the most about Pennsylvania: my church, Bible Study group, and the fellowship among the community. It was a younger congregation - a lot of people around my age, so it was pretty much the perfect situation for me.

All of that being said, I don't like this Pope. Not one bit. Keep in mind, I'm VERY conservative in a lot of my views, and this Pope is just WAY too liberal for my liking. He could be the false Pope or Anti-Pope that's been spoken of in prophecy, because he doesn't seem like much of a Godly man to me. He's way too tied in to the globalist mentality, and I'm very much a believer in sovereignty.

Non-denominational Christianity has worked wonders for me as a person, though. So, there's that.

So in other words this Pope, who certainly is no saint, is trying to bring the church a little more into the 21st century and that bothers you? no disrespect meant, but what is he doing you don't agree with?

[The Real McCoy]

6 hours ago, classicrawker said:

So in other words this Pope, who certainly is no saint, is trying to bring the church a little more into the 21st century and that bothers you? no disrespect meant, but what is he doing you don't agree with?

He’s pushing the globalist agenda, which I don’t like. I believe that each nation should be sovereign and make its own laws, not to be governed by a global body. From my point of view, he’s just another puppet of the United Nations / Global Government / whatever you want to refer to it as. 

[Dazey]

20 hours ago, The Real McCoy said:

All of that being said, I don't like this Pope. Not one bit. Keep in mind, I'm VERY conservative in a lot of my views, and this Pope is just WAY too liberal for my liking. 

You know that Jesus was, like, the least conservative guy EVER right?

[Len Cnut]

5 minutes ago, Dazey said:

You know that Jesus was, like, the least conservative guy EVER right?

There are those who say there was never no such person...and if there was a Jesus of Nazareth just as a person what he is come to be known as now is just a composite of various thingies pilfered from a range of different mythological...thingies.  Eloquence, thy name is Len!  I mean obviously the supernatural aspects invite scepticism but even outside of that, like the non-magical stuff he did in his life, places he went, associations he had etc are, according to some, a load of old boot. 

[soon]

10 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

There are those who say there was never no such person...and if there was a Jesus of Nazareth just as a person what he is come to be known as now is just a composite of various thingies pilfered from a range of different mythological...thingies.  Eloquence, thy name is Len!  I mean obviously the supernatural aspects invite scepticism but even outside of that, like the non-magical stuff he did in his life, places he went, associations he had etc are, according to some, a load of old boot. 

(95% motivated to answer because I love a chance to geek out on theology and biblical exegesis, 3% because discussing stuff is why we're here, 1% because I think I have something to offer, 1% because Jesus did exist, 0% to shame any other beliefs or upset anyone or get into any negativity) 

SHORT ANSWER:

Individuals can think that, but serious scholarship no longer has any room for that question.  Jesus of Nazareth lived and is accounted for in history.

LONGISH ANSWER:  

In the 1970's there was momentum in the "Historical Jesus" movement which included scholarship which asked if he in fact did exist.  That era of study has come and gone and really only ever confirmed what was already widely understood: There is ample evidence to conclude Jesus lived, had a following, was a prisoner of Rome and was executed in a manner reserved for rebels.  And with the dead sea scrolls shinning new light on the Libraries in Ethiopia theres even authentication on 1AD documents that are unedited that tell the first hand accounts that became canonized scripture.

Josephus is the popular 1AD historian to point to for historical record outside of scriptures, but there are other historians as well.  Most weighted secular evidence is that the Roman Empire kept good records.  They arrested and executed him.  There is also ample documentation on the lives of his apostles and others who lived with him.  They were almost all arrested, put on trial and executed and the Empires own records documented them and their work in the name of Chirst.  Jewish scribes talk of the schism Christ brought too.  And by the uprising of 77AD we had the idea of a religion separate from Judaism.

As far as the notion of the story of Jesus evolving; the scriptures its self tells of a Eunuch who flees with the first hand recordings of Christs sayings to protect them.  He fled to Ethiopia (connection to Jewish nation via Solomons marriage to Queen Shiba).  They've been cared for since.  Until the dead sea scrolls were studied many doubted the authenticity of the library in Ethiopia but, quite amazingly, they are now being validated as first drafts and are unedited.  Same records of Jesus ministry, miracles and self description.  (so meta!).  And of course the dead sea scrolls themselves offered further proof of an unchanged record.

To the idea of a patch-work-of-myths-Jesus; Jesus was prophesied for centuries in numerous cultures and came for all cultures sake, so the 'various other mythology' thing is seen as a point in support of his intended universalism.  For instance, the "wise men" came looking for the place of his birth based on a astrological prophesy from outside of Judaism - far outside as astrology is banned in Judaism.  The gospel according to John sees the author telling greek philosophers: the word and reason you seek has been manifest in flesh.  It doesnt dismiss greek philosophy but rather validates the questions with an answer.  From my stance on theology, Id put it that God was trying and trying to reveal Gods-self to every nation for a long time and finally was like: I gotta get someone on the ground to get things moving ahead with this relationship.  It includes all the yearnings for God that all cultures embraced and explored - all the previous revelation zeroed in on Christs invasion of history.

Blah, blah, blah!

It would in this era be a very outsider view in scholarship to doubt not only his existence but also the unique place in history he held.

 

Edited September 29, 2017 by soon

[SoulMonster]

Yeah, well, there's still no reason to think gods exist.