The Religion/Spirituality Thread

[soon]

I've always been interested in the Catholic Workers and the Ploughshares Movement.  Their work is "waging peace."  Here, an early iteration; The Catonsville Nine were nine Catholic activists who burned draft files, of those yet to be selected to ship off to war, to protest the Vietnam War. On May 17, 1968, they broke into the draft board in Catonsville, in the U.S. state of Maryland, took 378 draft files, brought them to the parking lot in wire baskets, dumped them out, poured over them home-made napalm (an incendiary used extensively by the US military in Vietnam), and set them on fire.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catonsville_Nine

[Iron MikeyJ]

So... I have yet to enter this thread, for sake of persecution tbh. Why??? Because I follow the truest religion on the planet, Roman Catholism. Not to degrad anyone that is Eastern or Greek Orthodox (because they are a CLOSE 2nd imo), but Aposilisitc seccesion is required to be a proper Christian denomination imo, so obviously all Orthodox denominations have that as well. Which all protestant denominations lack. Dont get me wrong,  im not knocking protestantism or those that follow it, because I DO believe you can find Christ through that route (which is ultimately the goal). I just view them as a "cliff notes" version of Christianity, while Catholics and Orthodox have a MUCH deeper understanding. Also, every protestant denomination allows at least one, or multiple heresies. Which they tend to be pretty easy to spot, to those that are honest with themselves. 

I'm not here saying the Catholic church is perfect (I'm sure many of you would be quick to point out the mistakes the church has made over the years). Having said that, the church is comparable to your mother, (even though mistakes have been made) turning your back on her is NOT what Jesus wants. Honestly it is a heresy to do it. 

With out getting to deep on my first post, let me say I have a profound respect for Judaism, that is my heritage as a Catholic. They made a HUGE mistake in regards to Christ, and unfortunatly have been blinded by that mistake ever since. But like the church tells us "hate the sin, not the sinner" most Jews know not the sin they have committed.

The church teaches that ALL major religions have some sense of truth to them, and deserve a certain amount of respect. Having said that, they also have MAJOR heresies. Take Islam for example, beyond denying the divinity of Christ (which is a major heresy), Abraham had multiple sons, his first born being Ishmael. Despite Ishmael being the oldest, God ordained that Issiac was the true successor (and it is not our place to question the will of God). So Islam, following the path of Ishmael, over Issiac was the first of many heresies that the Islamic religion has held onto. I sympathize with them (and Ismael) for this though, because Ishmael WAS the eldest. So I understand why Muslims feel that they do indeed have a claim to the "throne". God wanted the son of Abraham AND Sarah to be the next in line though, and that man was Issiac, not Ishmael. 

Without going in to deep on the other major religions, the basic fundamental problem they have, is that they embrace some forms of divination. Witchcraft "magic" or whatever you want to call it, are true. Now I'm not saying that every psychic you see or rum into are real (because most of them are just plain liars). But ANY religion that encourages it's followers to look towards supernatural influence for help, is committing a heresy. Even those that encourage people to use your "third eye" "Chi" or "innerself" are ALL asking you to look for supernatural influence, which is a heresy. God (Christ more specifically) wants us to ask HIM for help, not asking for outside supernatural influence. Which to be honest, when you do such things, you are communing with DEMONS!!!

Which that brings me to my final thought... What if I told you that it's ALL true, would you at least stop and think about it? Heaven, Hell, Angels, demons, purgatory, etc. Its all true. As I write this, I can't deny that the Holy Spirit is encouraging me to finish this post. Even though many will criticize, deny, critique, or whatever. But if 1 person reads this and feels a pull towards it, than it was important. Since I have returned to my Catholic faith (it's been 1 year next month), my eyes have been opened. I feel a sense of "enlightenment" and happiness that I never knew before, yet always craved. I'm not saying "everybody go be Catholic", because I am aware that many people can't seem to get past the Pope. They have a problem with the papacy that corrupts their thoughts. So at very least, go look into the Orthadox denominations then, as I said earlier, they are also a true form of Christ's church. Its like the left and right lungs in your body, they might be separate, but they both allow you to breathe.

Thanks for reading, and God bless.

[Dazey]

36 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

So... I have yet to enter this thread, for sake of persecution tbh. Why??? Because I follow the truest religion on the planet, Roman Catholism. Not to degrad anyone that is Eastern or Greek Orthodox (because they are a CLOSE 2nd imo), but Aposilisitc seccesion is required to be a proper Christian denomination imo, so obviously all Orthodox denominations have that as well. Which all protestant denominations lack. Dont get me wrong,  im not knocking protestantism or those that follow it, because I DO believe you can find Christ through that route (which is ultimately the goal). I just view them as a "cliff notes" version of Christianity, while Catholics and Orthodox have a MUCH deeper understanding. Also, every protestant denomination allows at least one, or multiple heresies. Which they tend to be pretty easy to spot, to those that are honest with themselves. 

I'm not here saying the Catholic church is perfect (I'm sure many of you would be quick to point out the mistakes the church has made over the years). Having said that, the church is comparable to your mother, (even though mistakes have been made) turning your back on her is NOT what Jesus wants. Honestly it is a heresy to do it. 

With out getting to deep on my first post, let me say I have a profound respect for Judaism, that is my heritage as a Catholic. They made a HUGE mistake in regards to Christ, and unfortunatly have been blinded by that mistake ever since. But like the church tells us "hate the sin, not the sinner" most Jews know not the sin they have committed.

The church teaches that ALL major religions have some sense of truth to them, and deserve a certain amount of respect. Having said that, they also have MAJOR heresies. Take Islam for example, beyond denying the divinity of Christ (which is a major heresy), Abraham had multiple sons, his first born being Ishmael. Despite Ishmael being the oldest, God ordained that Issiac was the true successor (and it is not our place to question the will of God). So Islam, following the path of Ishmael, over Issiac was the first of many heresies that the Islamic religion has held onto. I sympathize with them (and Ismael) for this though, because Ishmael WAS the eldest. So I understand why Muslims feel that they do indeed have a claim to the "throne". God wanted the son of Abraham AND Sarah to be the next in line though, and that man was Issiac, not Ishmael. 

Without going in to deep on the other major religions, the basic fundamental problem they have, is that they embrace some forms of divination. Witchcraft "magic" or whatever you want to call it, are true. Now I'm not saying that every psychic you see or rum into are real (because most of them are just plain liars). But ANY religion that encourages it's followers to look towards supernatural influence for help, is committing a heresy. Even those that encourage people to use your "third eye" "Chi" or "innerself" are ALL asking you to look for supernatural influence, which is a heresy. God (Christ more specifically) wants us to ask HIM for help, not asking for outside supernatural influence. Which to be honest, when you do such things, you are communing with DEMONS!!!

Which that brings me to my final thought... What if I told you that it's ALL true, would you at least stop and think about it? Heaven, Hell, Angels, demons, purgatory, etc. Its all true. As I write this, I can't deny that the Holy Spirit is encouraging me to finish this post. Even though many will criticize, deny, critique, or whatever. But if 1 person reads this and feels a pull towards it, than it was important. Since I have returned to my Catholic faith (it's been 1 year next month), my eyes have been opened. I feel a sense of "enlightenment" and happiness that I never knew before, yet always craved. I'm not saying "everybody go be Catholic", because I am aware that many people can't seem to get past the Pope. They have a problem with the papacy that corrupts their thoughts. So at very least, go look into the Orthadox denominations then, as I said earlier, they are also a true form of Christ's church. Its like the left and right lungs in your body, they might be separate, but they both allow you to breathe.

Thanks for reading, and God bless.

It's less of an issue with the Pope (you've actually got a decent one at the moment) and more to do with belief in the supernatural with zero evidence. That simple really.

[soon]

A mini documentary (12 minutes) on Christian resistance to the sale of arms to East Timor during the attempted genocide in the 80s-90s.  Of special interest to me is the 4 women who conducted a ploughshare action, breaking into the manufacturer of a fighter jet and disabling it with hammers.  Beating swords into ploughshares...

 

 

Isaiah 2:4 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

4 He shall judge between the nations,
    and shall arbitrate for many peoples;
they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
    and their spears into pruning hooks;
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
    neither shall they learn war any more.

[soon]

3 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

So... I have yet to enter this thread, for sake of persecution tbh. Why??? Because I follow the truest religion on the planet, Roman Catholism. Not to degrad anyone that is Eastern or Greek Orthodox (because they are a CLOSE 2nd imo), but Aposilisitc seccesion is required to be a proper Christian denomination imo, so obviously all Orthodox denominations have that as well. Which all protestant denominations lack. Dont get me wrong,  im not knocking protestantism or those that follow it, because I DO believe you can find Christ through that route (which is ultimately the goal). I just view them as a "cliff notes" version of Christianity, while Catholics and Orthodox have a MUCH deeper understanding. Also, every protestant denomination allows at least one, or multiple heresies. Which they tend to be pretty easy to spot, to those that are honest with themselves. 

I'm not here saying the Catholic church is perfect (I'm sure many of you would be quick to point out the mistakes the church has made over the years). Having said that, the church is comparable to your mother, (even though mistakes have been made) turning your back on her is NOT what Jesus wants. Honestly it is a heresy to do it. 

With out getting to deep on my first post, let me say I have a profound respect for Judaism, that is my heritage as a Catholic. They made a HUGE mistake in regards to Christ, and unfortunatly have been blinded by that mistake ever since. But like the church tells us "hate the sin, not the sinner" most Jews know not the sin they have committed.

The church teaches that ALL major religions have some sense of truth to them, and deserve a certain amount of respect. Having said that, they also have MAJOR heresies. Take Islam for example, beyond denying the divinity of Christ (which is a major heresy), Abraham had multiple sons, his first born being Ishmael. Despite Ishmael being the oldest, God ordained that Issiac was the true successor (and it is not our place to question the will of God). So Islam, following the path of Ishmael, over Issiac was the first of many heresies that the Islamic religion has held onto. I sympathize with them (and Ismael) for this though, because Ishmael WAS the eldest. So I understand why Muslims feel that they do indeed have a claim to the "throne". God wanted the son of Abraham AND Sarah to be the next in line though, and that man was Issiac, not Ishmael. 

Without going in to deep on the other major religions, the basic fundamental problem they have, is that they embrace some forms of divination. Witchcraft "magic" or whatever you want to call it, are true. Now I'm not saying that every psychic you see or rum into are real (because most of them are just plain liars). But ANY religion that encourages it's followers to look towards supernatural influence for help, is committing a heresy. Even those that encourage people to use your "third eye" "Chi" or "innerself" are ALL asking you to look for supernatural influence, which is a heresy. God (Christ more specifically) wants us to ask HIM for help, not asking for outside supernatural influence. Which to be honest, when you do such things, you are communing with DEMONS!!!

Which that brings me to my final thought... What if I told you that it's ALL true, would you at least stop and think about it? Heaven, Hell, Angels, demons, purgatory, etc. Its all true. As I write this, I can't deny that the Holy Spirit is encouraging me to finish this post. Even though many will criticize, deny, critique, or whatever. But if 1 person reads this and feels a pull towards it, than it was important. Since I have returned to my Catholic faith (it's been 1 year next month), my eyes have been opened. I feel a sense of "enlightenment" and happiness that I never knew before, yet always craved. I'm not saying "everybody go be Catholic", because I am aware that many people can't seem to get past the Pope. They have a problem with the papacy that corrupts their thoughts. So at very least, go look into the Orthadox denominations then, as I said earlier, they are also a true form of Christ's church. Its like the left and right lungs in your body, they might be separate, but they both allow you to breathe.

Thanks for reading, and God bless.

 

 

Catholics massacring Anabaptists.  

And to think that you don't even bother to list Anabaptists along with the other churches in your post.  If I was a Catholic and wanted to defend my belief system I wouldn't omit a lineage who your church tried to eradicate.  

Now that you know we exist, don't call us heretics.  It's bad form after all your murderiness was justified by that very accusation.  You know what I mean? 

 

 

[Iron MikeyJ]

While I'm not going to defend murder, in any form. Having said that, blood was shed on BOTH sides, protestants are not as innocent as they like to claim. I can guarantee that YOU do indeed follow heresies. You might not like it, but ALL forms of protestantism is a heresy. If I were to look into what you believe, or have been taught, I could fairly easily show you the errors. Which that's not going to accomplish much, perhaps we are better suited concentrating on the similarities, not the differences. Christ himself IS love, so concentrating on THAT fact is where I would rather focus my friend. 

[soon]

5 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

While I'm not going to defend murder, in any form. Having said that, blood was shed on BOTH sides, protestants are not as innocent as they like to claim. I can guarantee that YOU do indeed follow heresies. You might not like it, but ALL forms of protestantism is a heresy. If I were to look into what you believe, or have been taught, I could fairly easily show you the errors. Which that's not going to accomplish much, perhaps we are better suited concentrating on the similarities, not the differences. Christ himself IS love, so concentrating on THAT fact is where I would rather focus my friend. 

Anabaptists arent protestants.  

And no, Anabaptists didnt do this... at all.  Because Christ is love, so thats why we dont murder.

Are you lying or desperately misinformed?

[Iron MikeyJ]

3 hours ago, Dazey said:

It's less of an issue with the Pope (you've actually got a decent one at the moment) and more to do with belief in the supernatural with zero evidence. That simple really.

The Catholic church does indeed have multiple forms of "proof" if that's what you require. I mean no, God isn't just gonna shout down from heaven and say "here I am everybody". He wants you to have faith, and once you do, he will commune with you. But there have been times when the Lord has allowed miracles to happen, so I'm more than willing to point some of those out for you. Unlike many denominations, the Catholic church does not run away from science, quite the opposite we embrace it (maybe that wasn't always the case in history, but it's been this way for my lifetime). The church requires HIGH scientific evidence before cannonizing a miracle. So again, if you are interested I can link a few for you. 

[Iron MikeyJ]

1 minute ago, soon said:

Anabaptists arent protestants.  

And no, Anabaptists didnt do this... at all.  Because Christ is love, so thats why we dont murder.

Are you lying or desperately misinformed?

You have ZERO evidence that Anabaptists existed before the reformation. Before the protestant split, the only Christianity that existed were Catholics and Orthadox. If you came after, you are a protestant my friend.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Also let me add, to have TRUE validity, a church needs to Aposilisitc succession, and only 2 forms of Christianity can claim that, Catholics and Orthadox. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that the church is perfect and hasn't made mistakes, I'm well aware of history. Having said that, how is turning away from the church that Christ himself started going to bring you closer to God? Where did the bible even come from? Oh ya, Catholics. 

If you doubt that the truest form of Christianity is that practiced by Catholics and Orthadox, than I recommend you research the Church Fathers. In case you are unaware, they were the first disciples of the Apostles. They left a lot of insight into Christianity, and the things they practiced were VERY Catholic my friend. So basically, the first Christians to come after the death of Christ were doing the SAME things Catholics and Orthadox do today. Even the most devout protestants tend to come to Catholism or Orthadox when they realize these truths. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Iron MikeyJ

[soon]

16 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

You have ZERO evidence that Anabaptists existed before the reformation. Before the protestant split, the only Christianity that existed were Catholics and Orthadox. If you came after, you are a protestant my friend.

No.  If you're okay with a church that murdered us, please at least have enough sense of responsibility to educate yourself.

So, heres a quick lesson: the printing press came into existence.  You lot decided to remain illiterate and blindly follow a lying church.  Everyone else learned to read and read the Bible.  Upon reading scripture realized the Catholic leaders and practices werent following the Bible every one else left, some into protestantism and some to the radical reform.  The radical reformers birthed Anabaptism.  And from where we stand the main difference between catholics and protestants is that Catholics burned us and Lutherans chopped off our heads, lol.

The Lutherans apologized to us in 2010.

https://franconiaconference.org/us-lutherans-apologise-to-mennonites-and-other-anabaptists-for-past-persecution/

Your church apologized (ish) only to Lutherans, and only this year, and Mennonites are pushing to be included in the new conversation even though they werent offered reconciliation.

http://www.canadianmennonite.org/stories/remembering-reformation

Edited February 3, 2018 by soon

[Dazey]

19 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

The Catholic church does indeed have multiple forms of "proof" if that's what you require. 

No it doesn't.

19 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

God isn't just gonna shout down from heaven and say "here I am everybody". 

Why not? That would be proof.

19 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

There have been times when the Lord has allowed miracles to happen, so I'm more than willing to point some of those out for you.

Please do. I would be interested to see any proof of such things.

19 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

The church requires HIGH scientific evidence before cannonizing a miracle. So again, if you are interested I can link a few for you. 

I'm sorry but this I just find ludicrous. A miracle by its very nature is the opposite of scientific. I'm highly sceptical that either the church requires such evidence or has ever been able to demonstrate it.

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Dazey

[soon]

30 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

 I mean no, God isn't just gonna shout down from heaven and say "here I am everybody".  

What a truly strange thing for a believer to say because of course: thats pretty much exactly what happened.  Jesus showed up and said "here I am everybody."  And then, if you read scripture, you'll come across the part where God shouts down from heaven "This is my son with whom I'm well pleased."  

 

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, soon said:

What a truly strange thing for a believer to say because of course: thats pretty much exactly what happened.  Jesus showed up and said "here I am everybody."  And then, if you read scripture, you'll come across the part where God shouts down from heaven "This is my son with whom I'm well pleased."  

You'll note that he's not done it since video was invented.

[soon]

Just now, Dazey said:

You'll note that he's not done it since video was invented.

You dont have proof of that, lol!

[Iron MikeyJ]

16 minutes ago, soon said:

No.  If you're okay with a church that murdered us, please at least have enough sense of responsibility to educate yourself.

So, heres a quick lesson: the printing press came into existence.  You lot decided to remain illiterate and blindly follow a lying church.  Everyone else learned to read and read the Bible.  Upon reading scripture realized the Catholic leaders and practices werent following the Bible every one else left, some into protestantism and some to the radical reform.  The radical reformers birthed Anabaptism.  And from where we stand the main difference between catholics and protestants is that Catholics burned us and Lutherans chopped off our heads, lol.

The Lutherans apologized to us in 2010.

https://franconiaconference.org/us-lutherans-apologise-to-mennonites-and-other-anabaptists-for-past-persecution/

Your church apologized (ish) only to Lutherans, and only this year, and Mennonites are pushing to be included in the new conversation even though they werent offered reconciliation.

http://www.canadianmennonite.org/stories/remembering-reformation

For starters, were Catholic individulas and Catholic countries responsible for atrocities such as the Inquisition? Yes. But it wasn't the CHURCH itself that ordered deaths. Let me clarify, the King of Spain was REALLY the person responsible for the Inquisition, not the Church itself. Could the church tried to prevent it? Yes, and the church is responsible for THAT part. But atrocities that you are speaking of, and the Inquisition for example, were first and foremost ordered by GOVERMENTS, not the Church itself. Can some bishops and perhaps even popes be held accountable for some of that? Yes, I'm sure many were guilty also. But at NO point in history did the church actually say "go and kill protestants." Which again, I'm sorry you hate the Catholic church. If you don't want to be Catholic, ok. But I HIGHLY recommend you look into Orthadox then. Despite what your church leaders have told you, you are a protestant, because again the ONLY forms of Christianity that existed before the reformation were Catholics and Orthadox. Its a matter of historical fact, despite what you have been lead to believe.

[soon]

12 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

For starters, were Catholic individulas and Catholic countries responsible for atrocities such as the Inquisition? Yes. But it wasn't the CHURCH itself that ordered deaths. Let me clarify, the King of Spain was REALLY the person responsible for the Inquisition, not the Church itself. Could the church tried to prevent it? Yes, and the church is responsible for THAT part. But atrocities that you are speaking of, and the Inquisition for example, were first and foremost ordered by GOVERMENTS, not the Church itself. Can some bishops and perhaps even popes be held accountable for some of that? Yes, I'm sure many were guilty also. But at NO point in history did the church actually say "go and kill protestants." Which again, I'm sorry you hate the Catholic church. If you don't want to be Catholic, ok. But I HIGHLY recommend you look into Orthadox then. Despite what your church leaders have told you, you are a protestant, because again the ONLY forms of Christianity that existed before the reformation were Catholics and Orthadox. Its a matter of historical fact, despite what you have been lead to believe.

If you'd even just read through the proceeding page of the thread you'd note all the positive posts Ive made, including earlier today, about awesome Catholic thinkers and laity. lol!

I like, love and adore so many catholics.  And its incredibly easy to see that.

Also in this very thread Ive talked about spending lot of time with the Orthodox as well as being in conversation with Neo-Orthodox thought.  So again, just baseless stuff youre putting forward.  And Im not a protestant even if you say so, please don't be hurt about it.

Your church tried to eradicate us, and then you didn't list us as a church.  I simply asserted our existence and pointed to historical facts.

Edit: my last pro catholic post was the one right before your initial post 

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by soon
didnt see that new page had started

[Iron MikeyJ]

@Dazey

Lots of Eucharistic miracles have taken place over the millennia. Here is more recent one that was analyzed by science.

[Iron MikeyJ]

@Dazey

Here is the miracle in Italy referenced in the first video I posted.

 

[Iron MikeyJ]

@soon,

I'm sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to imply your church wasn't a true church. Any place that brings you closer to Christ is a positive place, and a church. I just meant that it doesn't have Aposilisitc succession. 

[Iron MikeyJ]

@Dazey

 

[soon]

4 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

@soon,

I'm sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to imply your church wasn't a true church. Any place that brings you closer to Christ is a positive place, and a church. I just meant that it doesn't have Aposilisitc succession. 

I accept in spirit that you wish to make things righteous between us.  I will happily receive that.  We're good.  However, thoughts of humans don't really effect or offend me about my relationship with God.  I've just shared facts.  I believe that when an atrocity has been committed that there is a responsibility on the offending party to join and offer an active apology, to seek right relations and to explore a relationship moving forward.  That includes today.  Like the Lutherans did.  Learning about Anabaptism could be seen as 'penance' if you'll permit me to borrow the term. 

[Iron MikeyJ]

51 minutes ago, soon said:

I accept in spirit that you wish to make things righteous between us.  I will happily receive that.  We're good.  However, thoughts of humans don't really effect or offend me about my relationship with God.  I've just shared facts.  I believe that when an atrocity has been committed that there is a responsibility on the offending party to join and offer an active apology, to seek right relations and to explore a relationship moving forward.  That includes today.  Like the Lutherans did.  Learning about Anabaptism could be seen as 'penance' if you'll permit me to borrow the term. 

I will happily take my penance then 👍. I also agree that you are correct in regards to apology. The church SHOULD make sure that those that have been treated unfairly, get a form of retrobution. That's probably the only "problem" I've encountered with the church, is the buracracy. At times it gets in the way of doing right by people. I will fully admit to finding myself personally irritated at times with the way things are "done" in regards with communication to church officials. Not priests, I've always found priests and nuns to be quite amazing individuals, but the Deacon at my local church isn't my favorite guy, tbh. I don't dislike him, but he appears to me to "play the game" in regards to church politics. Which I don't find those types of activities to be spiritually beneficial. 

Having said that, the Church Doctrines I have found to be amazingly powerful. Also the DEPTHS of knowledge one can find within Catholisim is quite remarkable. I firmly believe that no other religion can offer such a vast and massive history to explore.

[Iron MikeyJ]

4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

@Iron MikeyJ I find it deeply disturbing that you play-down/dismiss the Catholic Church's misdeeds as merely mistakes and that your signature is "I'll eat your children."

That quote is just meant for fun. Its something Tyson once said. I'm sorry you find it disturbing, and to be honest, it's not something that I would put on there now. Its been there for a number of years. But perhaps you are correct, and I should change it.

[Iron MikeyJ]

1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

I guess it's just a coincidence then. I'm not a fan of Tyson so wasn't aware he said that.

But back to my main point, why are you downplaying the misdeeds of the Church? Denial and blind loyalty is not a righteousness or goodness of any kind.

I'm not downplaying anything. I am fully aware that the church has made mistakes. But I would also counter with, that which is the most true, will get attacked the most. Even by those from within. Perhaps the church HAS had a lot of bad apples in the last 2000 years, but you can't let that ruin the whole bunch. I feel it is my duty to try and help others see the beauty that exists within Catholisim, Lord knows that many people are fully aware of the ugly. But have they seem the beauty?