killuridols Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 hour ago, soon said: Seems to be a 2 pronged strategy to not stir the pot too much in US and also speak out where it will be especially relevant and meaningful abroad. Some people would consider those gestures as 'populist'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 What you laughing at @Tori72? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tori72 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 minute ago, killuridols said: What you laughing at @Tori72? I’m laughing because I think you’re right and also you’re not. We don’t know what Axl truly thinks about politics or how political he is or if he just can’t express himself any better? Why is he only venting on twitter and never argueing like in the 90s. Whatever. Might have been populistic or he really wanted to show his Mexican and Brazliian Fans that he is on their side? Who knows, I don’t. Same about the DV thing. We really don’t know if he stopped being violent towards his women or not. We haven’t heard or read anything. So it is likely. With you I know that a lot of men witz DV issues were never really not violent, but we also know that Axl hat the means and took investment into working at himself. So maybe he succeded. About those dumb sexist tshirts... there are men who are not violent but still sexist. Maybe now he’s one of those. You know? Everything has two or more sides and whatever we know of Axl or not, it can mean more than one thing. I go with gut feeling. And right now my gut feeling is that he is sincere with his political stances. About the DV thing I ASSUME he’s over it now, about his sexism – that’s just obviously there and feels so so dated. An old man from the olden 80s times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, killuridols said: The lyrics to OIAM are utterly ignorant, that's what I mean..... but if you don't consider them ignorant, FINE. I will not argue YOUR opinion on that. Yeah, that's a whole different discussion. The lyrics are ignorant indeed but that was the point, at least that's how I always interpreted it. It was written through the eyes of an ignorant person who was raised that way and with those beliefs, probably much like Axl, and that's why I get what he was trying to say with that song. But let's not start that discussion again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, killuridols said: Some people would consider those gestures as 'populist'. Some people like yourself? Populism v. Populists? My head is spinning! I could give you that in Mexico. Although wasn't the Mexico City Pinata action at the very launch of NITL? Pretty risky for tour success had their been more backlash. But Bolsonaro just won presidency by a wide margin? Unless Guns is rejected by the Right and celebrated by the rest in Brazil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 do people really have so much time on their hands that they are seriously worring about a musician's political views? I'm not buying the "I can't enjoy music when its creator is racist" rationale. music is a-political and can be enjoyed, even when it is created by scum like, say, wagner. notes and tones trigger certain chemicals in our brain, and this process doesn't pass a certain PC-police checkup first. so with that out of the way, I ask again: why does it matter when Axl thinks of not? the vocals on something like "right next door to hell" remain impressive, and appetite is a stone cold classic and will forever be. I swear to god; have people not got more important stuff to do, than worry about the personal lives of artists? We don't need any more mark chapman or any similar loser without a life of their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tori72 said: About the DV thing I ASSUME he’s over it now, about his sexism – that’s just obviously there and feels so so dated. An old man from the olden 80s times. I interpret it as more of a nod back to the band's roots. If you look in any rock magazine from the 80s it was a very sexist scene. It is part of GN'R's iconography almost to the same extent as glary skulls and revolvers. But yeah, it really looks silly today no matter why it is being worn even if it is just as an ironic reference to the band's past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, killuridols said: I agree... 99% of the people in this forum have never met the guy, so we must be all ignorants. LOL. Thinking you know someone's political views or how they view a president/reality TV show host, because of certain things they did in the past is very ignorant indeed. Edited November 2, 2018 by EvanG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, action said: do people really have so much time on their hands that they are seriously worring about a musician's political views? I'm not buying the "I can't enjoy music when its creator is racist" rationale. music is a-political and can be enjoyed, even when it is created by scum like, say, wagner. notes and tones trigger certain chemicals in our brain, and this process doesn't pass a certain PC-police checkup first. so with that out of the way, I ask again: why does it matter when Axl thinks of not? the vocals on something like "right next door to hell" remain impressive, and appetite is a stone cold classic and will forever be. I swear to god; have people not got more important stuff to do, than worry about the personal lives of artists? We don't need any more mark chapman or any similar loser without a life of their own. No one has said the bolded part. Additionally a hint would be that we are all huge fans. (also its so ironic that you had the time on your hands to comment on other people having time on your hands ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tori72 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I interpret it as more of a nod back to the band's roots. If you look in any rock magazine from the 80s it was a very sexist scene. It is part of GN'R's iconography almost to the same extent as glary skulls and revolvers. But yeah, it really looks silly today no matter why it is being worn even if it is just as an ironic reference to the band's past. The bolded: I agree and it is what I hit at saying it feels dated to me and Axl behaves like an old man from olden more sexist times. I don’t agree with you on the first sentence though. Sexism being a nod to the band’s roots? Seriously? „He doesn’t mean it like that"? lol Oldest never been an excuse-excuse. You know, it doesn’t make sense to me. Sexism is sexism and it doesn’t get any more innocent or not sexist if you call it just a nod and "he doesn’t really mean it“. Edited November 2, 2018 by Tori72 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, soon said: No one has said the bolded part. Additionally a hint would be that we are all huge fans. (also its so ironic that you had the time on your hands to comment on other people having time on your hands ) "huge fan" sounds a bit creepy. stephen king has made a horror novel out of the concept. what is wrong with being a "normal" fan, who is only here for the music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Tori72 said: The bolded: I agree and it is what I hit at saying it feels dated to me and Axl behaves like an old man from olden more sexist times. I don’t agree with you on the first sentence though. Sexism being a nod to the band’s roots? Seriously? „He doesn’t mean it like that"? lol Oldest never been an excuse-excuse. You know, it doesn’t make sense to me. Sexism is sexism and it doesn’t get any more innocent or not sexist if you call it just a nod and "he doesn’t really mean it“. I never said it isn't sexism, of course it is, but I don't think Axl necessarily considers it sexism. I don't think he realizes that or has the intention of seriously belittling women with his choice of t-shirts. I think he considers it more like a nod back to the band's root, or an innocent continuation of the band's imagery or just something for fun, and if some women feel insulted then so be it. Again, not an excuse at all, but an attempt at explaining what I believe are the rationale. But of course those are still sexist images. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 35 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said: @DieselDaisy You know my feelings on the Vatican and how much I hate them. When we've discussed them and I've vented/ranted about how they're scum of the earth you've basically scoffed and downplayed it as; in the past(even though it's proven to be systemic and ongoing), not happening 100% of the time or by 100% of priests. But you can't cut W.Axl Rose some slack? Axl's moral compass is more deserving of evisceration than the world's biggest pedophile cult? Not saying this with aggression by the way just pointing out for perspective. You simply hate Axl with all your heart, it'll be okay mate. *pats your back* Well that is your opinion that they're ''scum of the earth''; certainly there are elements within the organisation that are ''scum of the earth'', but I do not think tarnishing every cleric with the same brush is a fair assessment. Truthfully I neither care enough about Trump, American politics nor Rose's tweets to discuss further. The subjects bore me. American politics is a terribly boring subject. I wish Rose would use his time elsewhere, like creating albums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said: Well, DD's alright in my book and is capable of rhyme and reason I've seen him do that many times, though. He'd go off topic in a discussion when you present him facts or he'd mention something that has nothing to do with what is being discussed. I hope I don't get into trouble for saying this, last time I was called out by a mod for some nonsense regarding him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tori72 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I never said it isn't sexism, of course it is, but I don't think Axl necessarily considers it sexism. I don't think he realizes that or has the intention of seriously belittling women with his choice of t-shirts. I think he considers it more like a nod back to the band's root, or an innocent continuation of the band's imagery or just something for fun, and if some women feel insulted then so be it. Again, not an excuse at all, but an attempt at explaining what I believe are the rationale. But of course those are still sexist images. Right. So Axl involuntarily is being sexist and doesn’t get it? Is that what you’re saying? Because I do think he knows what he’s doing and he obviously doesn’t care. „A nod to the band’s roots“ sounds like a band-political excuse to do it and I don’t think that’s it. He just enjoys being a sexist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tori72 said: Right. So Axl involuntarily is being sexist and doesn’t get it? Is that what you’re saying? Because I do think he knows what he’s doing and he obviously doesn’t care. „A nod to the band’s roots“ sounds like a band-political excuse to do it and I don’t think that’s it. He just enjoys being a sexist. Well, I disagree. He might realize that people consider it sexist, but I don't think he himself necessarily considers it sexist in the sense that it should insult or demean women. But hey, I am just speculating here. I don't know either. It's like, do people who go to strip clubs think they are doing something wrong? They might accept that it is a sexist thing to do, but not necessarily wrong, although they know some people oppose it. The same goes for watching porn. I think Axl has the same sort of perspective on his t-shirts. Edited November 2, 2018 by SoulMonster 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tori72 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: Well, I disagree. He might realize that people consider it sexist, but I don't think he himself necessarily considers it sexist in the sense that it should insult or demean women. But hey, I am just speculating here. I don't know either. It's like, do people who go to strip clubs think they are doing something wrong? They might accept that it is a sexist thing to do, but not necessarily wrong, although they know some people oppose it. The same goes for watching porn. I think Axl has the same sort of perspective on his t-shirts. The bolded. Same. We can agree on that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 26 minutes ago, Tori72 said: I’m laughing because I think you’re right and also you’re not. We don’t know what Axl truly thinks about politics or how political he is or if he just can’t express himself any better? Why is he only venting on twitter and never argueing like in the 90s. Whatever. Might have been populistic or he really wanted to show his Mexican and Brazliian Fans that he is on their side? Who knows, I don’t. That's why I said that some people who are into analysis of speech would label those 'gestures' as populist.... Im not adding an extra charge to the word populist, it is what it is... even if done sincerely or with the intention of showing support to the fans, it is a gesture many politicians use as well. 30 minutes ago, Tori72 said: Same about the DV thing. We really don’t know if he stopped being violent towards his women or not. We haven’t heard or read anything. So it is likely. With you I know that a lot of men witz DV issues were never really not violent, but we also know that Axl hat the means and took investment into working at himself. So maybe he succeded. About those dumb sexist tshirts... there are men who are not violent but still sexist. Maybe now he’s one of those. You know? Everything has two or more sides and whatever we know of Axl or not, it can mean more than one thing. Yes 31 minutes ago, Tori72 said: I go with gut feeling. And right now my gut feeling is that he is sincere with his political stances. About the DV thing I ASSUME he’s over it now, about his sexism – that’s just obviously there and feels so so dated. An old man from the olden 80s times. I understand. While I think it is logical to expect that Axl has made changes in his behavior and mentality throughout these 30 past years, I also think that 'believing', 'wanting to believe' or 'hoping' that he has changed for real and has not hurt himself and others in all this time it is a personal choice where emotions are involved. As fans, most of us want and wish that he's doing well, that he's mentally stable and hope that the #metoo movement and other social movements do not find him involved in that kind of scandals again. However, I think that we should respect each other's opinions and the freedom to be wary of him or suspicious or even not believe him at all. Like I said, perceiving Axl as a hypocrite or not wanting to "put my hands on fire for him", as well as assuming that he has changed and that he's a good citizen now, should not be forced upon other people who have different opinions. 41 minutes ago, soon said: Some people like yourself? Populism v. Populists? My head is spinning! I could give you that in Mexico. Although wasn't the Mexico City Pinata action at the very launch of NITL? Pretty risky for tour success had their been more backlash. But Bolsonaro just won presidency by a wide margin? Unless Guns is rejected by the Right and celebrated by the rest in Brazil? No, actually I thought of it because you kinda implied something (if Im not misinterpreting you) about a dual strategy where he plays safe with his statements while at the same time pleases that particular audience. But at the same time you've got to think that Trump is not the President neither of Mexico nor Brazil, and while the guy does affect the lives of those who are not directly governed by him, I do not think that all Mexicans and all Brazilians are emotionally invested on Trump with such vehemency. The Piñata thing was on November 2016. The video I posted about encouraging audience to sing loud for Trump to hear them was on April, 2016. I'm not sure what your last question is about but my perception is that fans of GN'R in South America are mostly people aligning with the Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, killuridols said: No, actually I thought of it because you kinda implied something (if Im not misinterpreting you) about a dual strategy where he plays safe with his statements while at the same time pleases that particular audience. But at the same time you've got to think that Trump is not the President neither of Mexico nor Brazil, and while the guy does affect the lives of those who are not directly governed by him, I do not think that all Mexicans and all Brazilians are emotionally invested on Trump with such vehemency. The Piñata thing was on November 2016. The video I posted about encouraging audience to sing loud for Trump to hear them was on April, 2016. I'm not sure what your last question is about but my perception is that fans of GN'R in South America are mostly people aligning with the Right. I see. I think Axl understands that hes in no place to effect the earnings of yet another tour with any antics. If he cant offer that solidarity to his band mates and family then he cant really offer solidarity to the entire world. So he leaves it alone in the Land of Fox News and instead uses his position as an artist to foster and nurture resistance in places where Trump figures into the conversation. Now that you've mentioned about most GNR fans leaning Right in SA I am even more appreciative that Axl spoke up. That stuff matters, imo. Can become iconic moments in political history: Oh right, I had the events in Mexico in reverse order, thanks. Anyways this began with me trying to make a record to track Axls actions, but not with the intent of using those facts to make a statement for or against. I dont really feel strongly. But from a strategic perspective, if one feels Axl is insincere or ill suited for the task, but yet he speaks in line with ones opinions, then let him be cannon fodder. Beats dividing anti-Trump voices imho. Edited November 2, 2018 by soon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 hour ago, soon said: I think Axl understands that hes in no place to effect the earnings of yet another tour with any antics. If he cant offer that solidarity to his band mates and family then he cant really offer solidarity to the entire world. So he leaves it alone in the Land of Fox News and instead uses his position as an artist to foster and nurture resistance in places where Trump figures into the conversation. I understand what you mean and I think you're right, he's got to protect his business..... In Argentina, we refer to those people as "cold chest", someone who is tepid or lukewarm.... If he wants to build the resistance against Trump, he should do it where Trump really matters: the United States of A. But he never tweeted about Trump before the 2016 election. Probably due to what you say. That was a wasted opportunity. 1 hour ago, soon said: Now that you've mentioned about most GNR fans leaning Right in SA I am even more appreciative that Axl spoke up. That stuff matters, imo. In my opinion, Axl's opinion doesn't have any weight in Latin America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 58 minutes ago, killuridols said: I understand what you mean and I think you're right, he's got to protect his business..... In Argentina, we refer to those people as "cold chest", someone who is tepid or lukewarm.... If he wants to build the resistance against Trump, he should do it where Trump really matters: the United States of A. But he never tweeted about Trump before the 2016 election. Probably due to what you say. That was a wasted opportunity. There's people in my life that are gonna regret that I ever learned the term "Cold Chest." They aren't gonna hear the end of it! I'm not convinced that Axl has any ambition of being a pillar of resistance. I believe he just intends to sprinkle some star dust and gasoline over the movement(s). And if he didn't tweet about Trump prior to 2016, it doesn't bother me. He wrote that open letter to Indonesian President Joko Widodo before that, and the CD essay. After all, beyond being a world class artist he's just a hick in a mansion that used to be a beast on vocals I think its cool that he is engaging these troubled times in his own way. Other than the fingerless gloves and employing millennials, I think its the most badass thing about him in 2018 1 hour ago, killuridols said: In my opinion, Axl's opinion doesn't have any weight in Latin America. I always thought Axl was a god in Latin America? All that pogo-ing and entire audiences singing along to every last drum fill must have lead me to this false conclusion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, soon said: There's people in my life that are gonna regret that I ever learned the term "Cold Chest." They aren't gonna hear the end of it! You always learn the bad shit from me 7 minutes ago, soon said: He wrote that open letter to Indonesian President Joko Widodo before that, and the CD essay. After all, beyond being a world class artist he's just a hick in a mansion that used to be a beast on vocals I think its cool that he is engaging these troubled times in his own way Indonesia and China are very worried about letters of hick Axl 9 minutes ago, soon said: I always thought Axl was a god in Latin America? All that pogo-ing and entire audiences singing along to every last drum fill must have lead me to this false conclusion. Guns N' Roses are not the only international act that gets to play around here. Tons of other artists and bands come to offer their shows and they get equal "pogo-ing" and singing along. Also, the regional and local scene is pretty vast and keeps growing A quick search into Spotify statistics of some LATAM countries show the Top 10 is dominated by the Spanish language, Hispanic artists and the main genres are hip hop, trap and regguetón. Zero rock, almost no English songs and no Axl Rose * Argentinahttps://spotifycharts.com/regional/ar/daily/latest * Brazilhttps://spotifycharts.com/regional/br/daily/latest * Mexicohttps://spotifycharts.com/regional/mx/daily/latest * Chilehttps://spotifycharts.com/regional/cl/daily/latest * Colombiahttps://spotifycharts.com/regional/co/daily/latest * Costa Ricahttps://spotifycharts.com/regional/cr/daily/latest Times they are a-Changin', new generations more connected with their roots and language. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 minute ago, killuridols said: Zero rock, almost no English songs and no Axl Rose Not even Greensleeves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Not even Greensleeves? I don't know what you mean by that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, killuridols said: I don't know what you mean by that It is just you mentioned ''English songs'', Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.