rumandraisin Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 11 hours ago, RONIN said: You saw them at RIR 3 and new years '01 (the joint)? If you had seen the House of Blues show (the one before RIR 3) you would have hit the holy trinity of nu guns shows. You're right, Axl from RIR 3 had that old Axl aura about him from the 90's. Iirc, Dave Grohl and the Gallagher brothers were backstage at that show. I think like some others said here, Axl completely self destructed in 2002. Even his looks had changed from 2001 to 2002. The dreads and jerseys were awful. I think he was so damaged in the 90's from the lawsuits, Duff and Slash leaving, the laughingstock he had become in the industry, his relationships falling apart, etc - that what we saw in 2001 when he re-emerged was a very fragile man. The 2002 mtv vmas probably wrecked his confidence completely. That's when all the Fat Axl stuff started. So his head wasn't even in the game. There's no chance that he was in a headspace to complete a tour, release an album, promote it, etc. But yes, that would have been the best and most ideal time to establish nu guns and his career by releasing the album. I think he would still have been a little late because the opening was there in 1999 to come back strong. Every year he waited, the momentum was slowing. People really started to move on by the end of '02 and his credibility was in tatters. He just blew it. Sometimes I think he should have just disappeared completely after Rock in Rio 3 and HOB 2000 - would have gone out like a legend. Left everyone wanting more and chinese democracy would have stayed a mythic album. I think the way nu guns disintegrated into a band of d-list musicians playing to half empty arenas and fronted by a bloated guy with a hideous wardrobe badly damaged the band's reputation and legacy. Everything about the 2008 album is a downgrade. The album cover sucks compared to what they were going to do originally. Nearly all of the songs have demos from the Beavan sessions that were way better. For some inexplicable reason he's pasted Bumblefoot and Frank all over the album - d-listers who belong nowhere near Bucket and Brain. More stupid layers. More random effects, choirs, etc. Replacing Brian May's amazing guitar work with Bumblefoot's tasteless shredding. Then the marketing was screwed up in 08 because of Axl being a baby and not playing ball since Azoff and Interscope forced the album out of his hands and forced him to tour in 2010. You see, Axl wasn't ready. He wanted to work some more on the cover art, the liner notes, or whatever other excuse he had. He didn't want to tour Illusions or release that album either - he was forced to do both. He needs a manager that kicks his ass like Azoff and Alan Niven, otherwise nothing ever gets done. That's why he prefers enablers so he can sit on his ass. Now he has Team Brazil, and so nothing ever gets done except pointless touring and cheap merch releases. Even their website is ass compared to Metallica. I think this is all fairly spot on apart from the Azoff comment. When he came back in 2002 it's like parts of the jigsaw were there but Axl was the weak link. He was so angry, so bitter still. There was something unusual and the rumors of some kind of breakdown after the tour are realistic. I am an believe that. The bizarre dissapearence from 2003 to 6 says it all. Which begs the question if the album had have come out in 2002 what wound have happened. Axl was clearly mentally not ready. Musically it'd be better, the majority here agree the album sounded better based on the leans we have. To be honest I can imagine the tour ending in the same way and the 2003 to 6 thing still happening even if the album came out. I can't see how he could cope with the pressure he was under combined with the public image. The tour still would have ended that night in December 2002. I think a reunion would have happened in 2006 and it would have imploded after a short while. Whatever made Axl mellow from 2012 onwards led to the reunion being a success. All joking aside TB played a huge part in him mellowing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 11 hours ago, RONIN said: You saw them at RIR 3 and new years '01 (the joint)? If you had seen the House of Blues show (the one before RIR 3) you would have hit the holy trinity of nu guns shows. You're right, Axl from RIR 3 had that old Axl aura about him from the 90's. Iirc, Dave Grohl and the Gallagher brothers were backstage at that show. I think like some others said here, Axl completely self destructed in 2002. Even his looks had changed from 2001 to 2002. The dreads and jerseys were awful. I think he was so damaged in the 90's from the lawsuits, Duff and Slash leaving, the laughingstock he had become in the industry, his relationships falling apart, etc - that what we saw in 2001 when he re-emerged was a very fragile man. The 2002 mtv vmas probably wrecked his confidence completely. That's when all the Fat Axl stuff started. So his head wasn't even in the game. There's no chance that he was in a headspace to complete a tour, release an album, promote it, etc. But yes, that would have been the best and most ideal time to establish nu guns and his career by releasing the album. I think he would still have been a little late because the opening was there in 1999 to come back strong. Every year he waited, the momentum was slowing. People really started to move on by the end of '02 and his credibility was in tatters. He just blew it. Sometimes I think he should have just disappeared completely after Rock in Rio 3 and HOB 2000 - would have gone out like a legend. Left everyone wanting more and chinese democracy would have stayed a mythic album. I think the way nu guns disintegrated into a band of d-list musicians playing to half empty arenas and fronted by a bloated guy with a hideous wardrobe badly damaged the band's reputation and legacy. Everything about the 2008 album is a downgrade. The album cover sucks compared to what they were going to do originally. Nearly all of the songs have demos from the Beavan sessions that were way better. For some inexplicable reason he's pasted Bumblefoot and Frank all over the album - d-listers who belong nowhere near Bucket and Brain. More stupid layers. More random effects, choirs, etc. Replacing Brian May's amazing guitar work with Bumblefoot's tasteless shredding. Then the marketing was screwed up in 08 because of Axl being a baby and not playing ball since Azoff and Interscope forced the album out of his hands and forced him to tour in 2010. You see, Axl wasn't ready. He wanted to work some more on the cover art, the liner notes, or whatever other excuse he had. He didn't want to tour Illusions or release that album either - he was forced to do both. He needs a manager that kicks his ass like Azoff and Alan Niven, otherwise nothing ever gets done. That's why he prefers enablers so he can sit on his ass. Now he has Team Brazil, and so nothing ever gets done except pointless touring and cheap merch releases. Even their website is ass compared to Metallica. Do we know what the album cover was originally gonna be? I thought it was always gonna be the bike, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonizedmind Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said: Do we know what the album cover was originally gonna be? I thought it was always gonna be the bike, no? Wasn't it like the star with all the red dudes...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Just now, colonizedmind said: Wasn't it like the star with all the red dudes...? Not sure. That one was eventually used as the cover for the title track vinyl single though (with Shackler’s as the b-side). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonizedmind Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said: Not sure. That one was eventually used as the cover for the title track vinyl single though (with Shackler’s as the b-side). Bet that's a rare item on the eBay's! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONIN Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, rocknroll41 said: Do we know what the album cover was originally gonna be? I thought it was always gonna be the bike, no? I might be way off here, but I always assumed it was this design? Edited July 31, 2023 by RONIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 48 minutes ago, RONIN said: I might be way off here, but I always assumed it was this design? This design is awesome, but it doesn’t really fit the tone of the album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 4 hours ago, rocknroll41 said: Do we know what the album cover was originally gonna be? I thought it was always gonna be the bike, no? Yea the cover was always gonna be the bike. Axl showed the artwork to the crowd at the first 2002 show in Hong Kong, but it was black and white instead of sepia or whatever it ended up being. I think the red hand or red star artwork was also used for Shackler's in Rock Band before the album was released though? I could be wrong about that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said: Yea the cover was always gonna be the bike. Axl showed the artwork to the crowd at the first 2002 show in Hong Kong, but it was black and white instead of sepia or whatever it ended up being. I think the red hand or red star artwork was also used for Shackler's in Rock Band before the album was released though? I could be wrong about that. The red hand was used for the downloadable version of the album for Rock Band, as well as for the album’s guitar tab book. Wasn’t the album cover also supposed to be a painting of a fictional amusement park at one point? Edited August 1, 2023 by rocknroll41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said: The red hand was used for the downloadable version of the album for Rock Band, as well as for the album’s guitar tab book. Wasn’t the album cover also supposed to be a painting of a fictional amusement park at one point? No, I know the one your thinking of with the Mao head and a roller coaster, but I think it was just other artwork by the same artist who did the red hand, and someone used it to make a fanmade cover. I think they also used the red hand artwork for the tour program in 2012... edit: Edited August 1, 2023 by Gordon Comstock 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Yeah as cool as all these alternate covers are, the bike is still the one that fits the “tone” of the album most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betterman Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 I think my own Chinese sessions playlist/disc is pretty good: the General (intro) Absurd Hard Skool Better (Dj Ashba remix) Oh My God (End of days version) Perhaps If the world (remix) Atlas Shrugged IRS (Version 2) This I Love (remix) State of Grace Going down (w/Axl back voc.) Catcher in the rye (w/ Brian May) Circus Maximus (instrumental) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweersa Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 11 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said: No, I know the one your thinking of with the Mao head and a roller coaster, but I think it was just other artwork by the same artist who did the red hand, and someone used it to make a fanmade cover. I think they also used the red hand artwork for the tour program in 2012... That is correct, I have that tour book, and "cover b" CD which is the red hand. They pressed some this way. Even has the Best Buy sticker on it, and a small hole drilled in the case which indicates it was promo only and not for sale, at least those copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020_Intensions Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Sweersa said: That is correct, I have that tour book, and "cover b" CD which is the red hand. They pressed some this way. Even has the Best Buy sticker on it, and a small hole drilled in the case which indicates it was promo only and not for sale, at least those copies. I also have the red hand cd ... Still sealed never opened 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoochild Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Why would Axl want the follow-up album to be called PRL if the song never had any lyrics/vocals recorded, according to some of you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betterman Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 What does PRL mean? Is it Legend of Red Panda backwards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020_Intensions Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 5 hours ago, Voodoochild said: Why would Axl want the follow-up album to be called PRL if the song never had any lyrics/vocals recorded, according to some of you? It was an idea. Is it that hard of a concept for you? He had an idea that never came to fruition. PRL was spoke of once publicly in a foreign country in 2001. Never has been mentioned since, not by band members, friends, Axl himself, nobody. It is now approaching the end of 2023. Hang it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoochild Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 37 minutes ago, 2020_Intensions said: It was an idea. Is it that hard of a concept for you? He had an idea that never came to fruition. PRL was spoke of once publicly in a foreign country in 2001. Never has been mentioned since, not by band members, friends, Axl himself, nobody. It is now approaching the end of 2023. Hang it up. LOL at "foreign country". It's all assumptions. Nobody had mention Hard Skool either, yet the song existed. Why would any of those people mention an unreleased song? I understand the concept of an idea, but you're making up a whole story to back it up your assumption. The facts: we have this PRL instrumental from the 1999/2000 sessions. Axl mentioned the song in 2001 as the title-track for a follow up album. To me sounds reasonable that the song would be more than just an idea by then. But I don't know, I was just asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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