Chinese Democracy - The Trilogy (what could have been)

[2020_Intensions]

Just came across a file I haven't looked at in almost 4 years. At the end of 2019 I compiled these playlists from the Village leaks, and fashioned them as track lists for 3 separate albums in the ChiDem trilogy.

I kept the first album similar to the actual album that was released, with more old school GnR style rockers and ballads. Madagascar is such a powerful opening statement, new beginnings kind of song so I went with that as the opener, followed right up with the title track. Riad and Hardschool are up next continuing off of the title track's energy, powerful in your face rockers. Then we go into a stretch of ballads, and just as you're coming off the emotional end of The Blues you get slapped in the face with Axl's opening vocals of Scraped to remind you the ride isn't over yet. Keeping in the spirit of this first album we go into Atlas and Better next, followed up with a more mellow Going Down before we head into our grand finale of TWAT and Prostitute. 

The next album - P.R.L. - This one I envisioned as being the more experimental oriented of the trilogy. Opening with Thyme we find ourselves in this fairyland like atmosphere not really sure where we're heading before everything begins to distort and glitch and before we know it the world we were just in is gone and we're now in P.R.L. Next we have a long 5 song stretch of just in your face powerful rockers. Things get weird with Eye on You and If the World, to then slow down with Nothing and Inside Out, to then get really weird again but this time to the max with Shackler's. We then move in to Oklahaoma and Dummy to finish off. 

The final album - As It Began - For this I was left with A LOT still to work with, and so this became the wrap up album. A combination of everything you've heard so far, rockers, experimental, weird, and all the angriest and violent sounding of them all. We slow down a bit towards the end with Sorry and This I Love, our last ballad of the trilogy, before heading into a stretch of the 3 arguably heaviest hitters in the entire trilogy to close us out on our journey. But the final send off will not be the closing of Soul Monster, but the weird emotional transient experience that is the title track. 

Let me know your thoughts! Next time you get in the mood for some ChiDem and Village stuff, maybe try listening to them following these track lists and see if you can feel what I felt when compiling these.

 

Chinese Democracy

 

Madagascar

Chinese Democracy

Riad

Hardschool

Perhaps

Catcher In The Rye

The Blues

Scraped

Atlas Shrugged

Better

Going Down

TWAT

Prostitute

 

Chinese Democracy Part 2 - P.R.L.

 

Thyme / P.R.L.

Dub Suplex

D Tune

State of Grace

Devious Bastard

Quicksong

Eye On You

If The World

Nothing

Inside Out

Shackler's Revenge

Oklahaoma

Dummy

 

Chinese Democracy Part 3 - As It Began

 

Billionare

Silkworms

Circus Maximus

Real Doll.com

Motormouth

The Rebel

Curly Shuffle

I.R.S.

Mustache

Prom Violence

Oh My God

Sorry

This I Love

Zodiac 13

Tonto

Soul Monster

As It Began

[El Guapo]

Chinese Democracy will NEVER end. Never.

These song titles will be with us for all eternity.

[betterman]

Motormouth?

[rocknroll41]

1 hour ago, betterman said:

Motormouth?

It’s what some of us call 10%er (since it took forever to find out what the actual title of that song was). It was a rumored (later proven fake) title from awhile back.

[DarkLotus1111]

Awesome list! "As It Began" definitely sounds like a good farewell type of song for a trilogy finale. It just needs a sick Buckethead guitar solo though. 

Now just imagine the cool music videos if it all came out in the early 2000s. For example; I'm listening to "Oklahoma" and I always imagined a music video where the band is rocking out in some dark dim court room (Robin Finck wearing a generic court security cop uniform with a cop hat) while fire sprinklers go off flooding the room. Also a TV screen showing footage of the Oklahoma City bombing and clips of the "Sweet Child O' Mine" music video. I swear these songs have so many what if scenarios...  

Edited July 29, 2023 by DarkLotus1111

[Sausagebrain]

8 hours ago, DarkLotus1111 said:

Awesome list! "As It Began" definitely sounds like a good farewell type of song for a trilogy finale. It just needs a sick Buckethead guitar solo though. 

Now just imagine the cool music videos if it all came out in the early 2000s. For example; I'm listening to "Oklahoma" and I always imagined a music video where the band is rocking out in some dark dim court room (Robin Finck wearing a generic court security cop uniform with a cop hat) while fire sprinklers go off flooding the room. Also a TV screen showing footage of the Oklahoma City bombing and clips of the "Sweet Child O' Mine" music video. I swear these songs have so many what if scenarios...  

 

I remember some bullshit rumour that Catcher In The Rye had a music video where the band (c2002), where all playing baseball in a ryefield.

 

Or maaaaybe - it actually exists:-p

[t-p-d-a]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:41 PM, El Guapo said:

Chinese Democracy will NEVER end. Never.

These song titles will be with us for all eternity.

Are we still in the first round?

[SlashisGOD]

Yep, round 1.

[DannyVinyard]

Why did Axl quit on his band in 2002, is what I would like to know. Was it disappointing ticket sales? There was no proper promotion for the tour.  He is solo with no hype to drive ticket sales. There should have been a release date for the album to come out in 2002 or 2003, with a single and epic music video for that single. My suggestion for the first single would have been Better or There Was a Time. A single and accompanying music video would have been huge promotion for the 2002 tour and  album. Why not hire the people who helped create the epic AFD and UYI videos? I don't  understand the route that he took and why he gave up. Why go through that effort of putting together this band of amazing musicians and years of working on all of these songs, just to give up? I cannot wrap my head around it. All of that potential, never realized.  He went into hiding for 4 years, came back in 2006, again with zero direction or promotion. Again, with no single, no music video, and expecting what? He gives up again and goes back into hiding again, while the record company said F it and forced the album out in 2008. Again, Axl Rose is a no show. No promotion, terrible first single (chosen by record company), never released the half assed music video for Better. Hiding until 2011 only to come back fat and out of shape with terrible vocals. And here we are, many years later,  stuck in an endless cash grab tour with Slash and Duff.

 

[meadsoap]

38 minutes ago, DannyVinyard said:

Why did Axl quit on his band in 2002, is what I would like to know. Was it disappointing ticket sales? There was no proper promotion for the tour.  He is solo with no hype to drive ticket sales. There should have been a release date for the album to come out in 2002 or 2003, with a single and epic music video for that single. My suggestion for the first single would have been Better or There Was a Time. A single and accompanying music video would have been huge promotion for the 2002 tour and  album. Why not hire the people who helped create the epic AFD and UYI videos? I don't  understand the route that he took and why he gave up. Why go through that effort of putting together this band of amazing musicians and years of working on all of these songs, just to give up? I cannot wrap my head around it. All of that potential, never realized.  He went into hiding for 4 years, came back in 2006, again with zero direction or promotion. Again, with no single, no music video, and expecting what? He gives up again and goes back into hiding again, while the record company said F it and forced the album out in 2008. Again, Axl Rose is a no show. No promotion, terrible first single (chosen by record company), never released the half assed music video for Better. Hiding until 2011 only to come back fat and out of shape with terrible vocals. And here we are, many years later,  stuck in an endless cash grab tour with Slash and Duff.

 

He allegedly had a mental health episode in 2002. There were multiple reports at the time that he had psychologists following him around on tour in order to help deal with his Shakey mental state, and that he went into a mental health facility as soon as he canceled the rest of his tour dates. 

Nobody can confirm whether it's true except Axl, but cancelling a whole tour is severe even for him, even taking into account his issues with lateness. The last time he was completely pulled off a tour, it was because of a serious medical issue regarding his vocal cords in the 80s. And despite how society fails to acknowledge it, mental health episodes are also a serious health issues.

Edited July 29, 2023 by meadsoap

[Blackstar]

51 minutes ago, meadsoap said:

He allegedly had a mental health episode in 2002. There were multiple reports at the time that he had psychologists following him around on tour in order to help deal with his Shakey mental state, and that he went into a mental health facility as soon as he canceled the rest of his tour dates. 

Nobody can confirm whether it's true except Axl, but cancelling a whole tour is severe even for him, even taking into account his issues with lateness. The last time he was completely pulled off a tour, it was because of a serious medical issue regarding his vocal cords in the 80s. And despite how society fails to acknowledge it, mental health episodes are also a serious health issues.

Yes, there were rumours about his bad mental state, which, if true, had to do with the no-show in Philadelphia. However, the tour (the remaining dates after Philadelphia) wasn't cancelled by Axl. It was the promoter (Clear Channel) that pulled the plug on it.

[guitarpatch]

1 hour ago, DannyVinyard said:

Why did Axl quit on his band in 2002, is what I would like to know. Was it disappointing ticket sales? There was no proper promotion for the tour.  He is solo with no hype to drive ticket sales. There should have been a release date for the album to come out in 2002 or 2003, with a single and epic music video for that single. My suggestion for the first single would have been Better or There Was a Time. A single and accompanying music video would have been huge promotion for the 2002 tour and  album. Why not hire the people who helped create the epic AFD and UYI videos? I don't  understand the route that he took and why he gave up. Why go through that effort of putting together this band of amazing musicians and years of working on all of these songs, just to give up? I cannot wrap my head around it. All of that potential, never realized.  He went into hiding for 4 years, came back in 2006, again with zero direction or promotion. Again, with no single, no music video, and expecting what? He gives up again and goes back into hiding again, while the record company said F it and forced the album out in 2008. Again, Axl Rose is a no show. No promotion, terrible first single (chosen by record company), never released the half assed music video for Better. Hiding until 2011 only to come back fat and out of shape with terrible vocals. And here we are, many years later,  stuck in an endless cash grab tour with Slash and Duff.

 

Clear Channel pulled the tour due to the two riots because of no shows. If the Philly show was just canceled/postponed or if the fans didn’t tear up the place, the tour may have continued 

There was a lot of momentum building from the east coast shows

[DefinitelyInThisLifetime]

On 7/26/2023 at 12:01 AM, rocknroll41 said:

It’s what some of us call 10%er (since it took forever to find out what the actual title of that song was). It was a rumored (later proven fake) title from awhile back.

I started that rumour as a joke on CD Forum with a few other titles and it spread to New GnR forum, and across the whole set of forums. I mixed it up with real titles. The Axl chats were great for debunking and stuff.

[DannyVinyard]

2 hours ago, meadsoap said:

He allegedly had a mental health episode in 2002. There were multiple reports at the time that he had psychologists following him around on tour in order to help deal with his Shakey mental state, and that he went into a mental health facility as soon as he canceled the rest of his tour dates. 

Nobody can confirm whether it's true except Axl, but cancelling a whole tour is severe even for him, even taking into account his issues with lateness. The last time he was completely pulled off a tour, it was because of a serious medical issue regarding his vocal cords in the 80s. And despite how society fails to acknowledge it, mental health episodes are also a serious health issues.

If he needs to be late to get mentally right, fine. But don't no show for your concert. Don't give up on everything you worked for, fought for. What did he have to be depressed or anxious about? He was in peak form, had assembled a group of amazing musicians, and IMO he looked and sounded great. I didn't care for the oversized jerseys or full on dreadlocks, but aside from that, he had pretty much perfect aesthetic and stage presence. He had a ton of new music recorded and could have easily released a single with music video in 2002. What did have to be depressed about? He had everything he could dream of. I mean, if he was depressed then, how is he mentally stable now, looking and sounding like crap? I don't get it. And what is the excuse for going back into hiding after 2006 and zero support for his album in 2008? "Oh, my album was just released, I think I'll read a book and have a cup of tea here in my Malibu mansion." Maybe if he would have just worked with the record company, he could have released it on his terms, with singles he wanted to use with supporting music videos. But no, he didn't want to talk to or work with anybody at the record company. Just wanted to sit on the music and the record company in turn said "fuck you Axl, we are releasing this motherfucker now. You've had 10 years to get your shit straight. Either support it or sit and cry about it in your mansion with Beta!"

Edited July 29, 2023 by DannyVinyard

[D4NNY]

1 minute ago, DannyVinyard said:

If he needs to be late to get mentally right, fine. But don't no show for your concert. Don't give up on everything you worked for, fought for. What did he have to be depressed or anxious about? He was in peak form, had assembled a group of amazing musicians, and IMO he looked and sounded great. I didn't care for the oversized jerseys or full on dreadlocks, but aside from that, he had pretty much perfect aesthetic and stage presence. He had a ton of new music recorded and could have easily released a single with music video in 2002. What did have to be depressed about? He had everything he could dream of. I mean, if he was depressed then, how is he mentally stable now looking and sounding like crap? I don't get it. And what is the excuse for going back into hiding after 2006 and zero support for his album in 2008? "Oh, my album was just released, I think I'll read a book and have a cup of tea here in my Malibu mansion." Maybe if he would have just worked with the record company, he could have released it on his terms, with singles he wanted to use with supporting music videos. But no, he didn't want to talk to or work with anybody at the record company. Just wanted to sit on the music and the record company in turn said "fuck you Axl, we are releasing this motherfucker now. You've had 10 years to get your shit straight. Either support it or sit and cry about it in your mansion with Beta!"

So if someone is depressed for whatever reasons or deep demons they have you just say they have nothing to be depressed about?? It’s 2023 man, get with the times. Mental health is a serious thing and not just something you can just push aside or sweep under a rug. “Sit and cry in your mansion”..? Go suck a lemon dude. 

[rocknroll41]

14 minutes ago, DefinitelyInThisLifetime said:

I started that rumour as a joke on CD Forum with a few other titles and it spread to New GnR forum, and across the whole set of forums. I mixed it up with real titles. The Axl chats were great for debunking and stuff.

That’s funny. I think I was the one who started the trend of referring to 10%er with that title. Glad we finally know what it’s called for real now.

Edited July 29, 2023 by rocknroll41

[DefinitelyInThisLifetime]

13 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

That’s funny. I think I was the one who started the trend of referring to 10%er with that title. Glad we finally know what it’s called for real now.

Yeah, I called it Zero magazine, it was funny because in 2006 I referred to it as an Italian magazine that was print only but they’d somehow had a Fortus interview. 
 

Everyone was clutching at any information, they took anything at face value.

 

2006. SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO. Baffling.

[Gordon Comstock]

10 minutes ago, DefinitelyInThisLifetime said:

Yeah, I called it Zero magazine, it was funny because in 2006 I referred to it as an Italian magazine that was print only but they’d somehow had a Fortus interview. 
 

Everyone was clutching at any information, they took anything at face value.

 

2006. SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO. Baffling.

 

I remember that. Motormouth, We Were Lying, and maybe 1-2 others. CD was a fun forum

[Blackstar]

31 minutes ago, DannyVinyard said:

If he needs to be late to get mentally right, fine. But don't no show for your concert. Don't give up on everything you worked for, fought for. What did he have to be depressed or anxious about? He was in peak form, had assembled a group of amazing musicians, and IMO he looked and sounded great. I didn't care for the oversized jerseys or full on dreadlocks, but aside from that, he had pretty much perfect aesthetic and stage presence. He had a ton of new music recorded and could have easily released a single with music video in 2002. What did have to be depressed about? He had everything he could dream of. I mean, if he was depressed then, how is he mentally stable now, looking and sounding like crap? I don't get it. And what is the excuse for going back into hiding after 2006 and zero support for his album in 2008? "Oh, my album was just released, I think I'll read a book and have a cup of tea here in my Malibu mansion." Maybe if he would have just worked with the record company, he could have released it on his terms, with singles he wanted to use with supporting music videos. But no, he didn't want to talk to or work with anybody at the record company. Just wanted to sit on the music and the record company in turn said "fuck you Axl, we are releasing this motherfucker now. You've had 10 years to get your shit straight. Either support it or sit and cry about it in your mansion with Beta!"

That's your perception as a fan, but the majority of the reviews on that tour were negative and the shows undersold (with the exception of the show at MSG and maybe another one, the arenas were half full - ironically, though, most of the remaining dates that were cancelled had sold well). And then, after the NYC show that went well, Howard Stern's TV producer said on radio that Axl was lip-syncing - which, according to a rumour, was the last straw for Axl's fragile mental state and resulted in the no-show in Philadelphia.

[Gordon Comstock]

7 hours ago, Sausagebrain said:

 

I remember some bullshit rumour that Catcher In The Rye had a music video where the band (c2002), where all playing baseball in a ryefield.

 

Or maaaaybe - it actually exists:-p

 

I think it was the rumoured CITR 2002 video, but from what I remember they filmed it in Hong Kong and it didn't feature any of the band members. It was something like bank robbers running around the city trying to escape, or something like that, which totally didn't fit the vibe of the song...

[meadsoap]

53 minutes ago, DannyVinyard said:

If he needs to be late to get mentally right, fine. But don't no show for your concert. Don't give up on everything you worked for, fought for. What did he have to be depressed or anxious about? He was in peak form, had assembled a group of amazing musicians, and IMO he looked and sounded great. I didn't care for the oversized jerseys or full on dreadlocks, but aside from that, he had pretty much perfect aesthetic and stage presence. He had a ton of new music recorded and could have easily released a single with music video in 2002. What did have to be depressed about? He had everything he could dream of. I mean, if he was depressed then, how is he mentally stable now, looking and sounding like crap? I don't get it. And what is the excuse for going back into hiding after 2006 and zero support for his album in 2008? "Oh, my album was just released, I think I'll read a book and have a cup of tea here in my Malibu mansion." Maybe if he would have just worked with the record company, he could have released it on his terms, with singles he wanted to use with supporting music videos. But no, he didn't want to talk to or work with anybody at the record company. Just wanted to sit on the music and the record company in turn said "fuck you Axl, we are releasing this motherfucker now. You've had 10 years to get your shit straight. Either support it or sit and cry about it in your mansion with Beta!"

Depression doesn't go away just because things seem to be going well on the outside. If the rumors about Axl having a breakdown are true, it's not the first time someone who seemingly had it all did something drastic due to what was going on inside of them. Chris Cornell and Anthony Bourdain to name a couple.

Obviously what Axl was doing was not nearly as bad as suicide, but it shows self-destruction from mental illness can hit anybody regardless of their station in life.

[DannyVinyard]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

That's your perception as a fan, but the majority of the reviews on that tour were negative and the shows undersold (with the exception of the show at MSG and maybe another one, the arenas were half full - ironically, though, most of the remaining dates that were cancelled had sold well). And then, after the NYC show that went well, Howard Stern's TV producer said on radio that Axl was lip-syncing - which, according to a rumour, was the last straw for Axl's fragile mental state and resulted in the no-show in Philadelphia.

Of course the reviews were negative. Axl took a lot of hate for using the Guns N' Roses name while being the only original member. No matter how awesome they were, the reviewers already had their mind made up. They wanted to hate Axl. They wanted to blame him for original Guns breakup.  Again, the shows undersold because it was just him and there was no catalyst to drive sales, IE a new single, music video, album. People didn't know how awesome NU GNR was because they wouldn't release any new music to showcase their talent. Axl had the music recorded. Axl had the band of his dreams. Axl had everything he wanted. All he had to do was proper promotion for the tour. Axl said he wanted to bury Appetite with new music (kurt loder MTV interview). Axl said he at RIR III that next time they'd play a ton of new songs. Axl said Round 1 at VMA's. So, he should have followed through, and things would be much better than they are today. We would have had at least 3 epic albums from that new band. Instead we are stuck in an endless cash crab tour with boring Slash and boring Duff playing the oldies and it will not stop until the suckers stop attending.

Edited July 29, 2023 by DannyVinyard

[Blackstar]

37 minutes ago, DannyVinyard said:

Of course the reviews were negative. Axl took a lot of hate for using the Guns N' Roses name while being the only original member. No matter how awesome they were, the reviewers already had their mind made up. They wanted to hate Axl. They wanted to blame him for original Guns breakup.  Again, the shows undersold because it was just him and there was no catalyst to drive sales, IE a new single, music video, album. People didn't know how awesome NU GNR was because they wouldn't release any new music to showcase their talent. Axl had the music recorded. Axl had the band of his dreams. Axl had everything he wanted. All he had to do was proper promotion for the tour. Axl said he wanted to bury Appetite with new music (kurt loder MTV interview). Axl said he at RIR III that next time they'd play a ton of new songs. Axl said Round 1 at VMA's. So, he should have followed through, and things would be much better than they are today. We would have had at least 3 epic albums from that new band. Instead we are stuck in an endless cash crab tour with boring Slash and boring Duff playing the oldies and it will not stop until the suckers stop attending.

It's highly questionable that he had "the band of his dreams" and "everything he wanted" from his perspective. He probably indeed thought that the band he had put together was the best possible lineup for "New GN'R". But, on the other hand, he evidently still carried resentment over the breakup of old GN'R, so he hadn't really moved forward; and his rants on that subject during the 2002 tour are also an indication about the state of his mental health.

That quote about "burying Appetite" has been awfully misused and taken out of context. It's from an MTV interview in 1989 (not with Kurt Loder) and the context was the follow-up to AFD (Axl meant that he didn't want to be defined by that one album). It had nothing to do with NuGnR or CD. Actually, by the time of NuGnR, Axl had come to terms with the fact that he would never outdo/"bury" AFD (and that's what he more or less told Loder in 1999).

Edited July 29, 2023 by Blackstar

[DannyVinyard]

32 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

It's highly questionable that he had "the band of his dreams" and "everything he wanted" from his perspective. He probably indeed thought that the band he had put together was the best possible lineup for "New GN'R". But, on the other hand, he evidently still carried resentment over the breakup of old GN'R, so he hadn't really moved forward; and his rants on that subject during the 2002 are also an indication of the state of his mental health.

That quote about "burying Appetite" has been awfully misused and taken out of context. It's from an MTV interview in 1989 (not with Kurt Loder) and the context was the follow-up to AFD (Axl meant that he didn't want to be defined by that one album). It had nothing to do with NuGnR or CD. Actually, by the time of NuGnR, Axl had come to terms with the fact that he would never outdo/"bury" AFD (and that's what he more or less told Loder in 1999).

I mean, he put the band together himself. Everything was his way and he was in total control. The group of musicians that he put together was genius, in my view. Some of the best talent on the planet. I always thought of the resentment of the old guys quitting as a driving force behind wanting to put out new music, to overcome the obstacle of everyone quitting and starting over with a whole new band, and succeeding with that new band. Even I gave Axl a pass for what happened in 2002 and still supported him when he came back again in 2006, only for deja vu to happen: no single, no video, no album, and back to hiding again. It's been all downhill since then.

My mistake on the "burying Appetite" quote. I meant to reference the Kurt Loder MTV interview from 1999 when Axl said at the end, "I'm not working on all of this to keep it(music) buried" and even goes on to say, "we plan on getting out there and we plan on doing it right".

[2020_Intensions]

Man this forum is king of just complete derailment of a thread.