"The General" is officially delayed... but "The General" AND "Monsters" is (unofficially) out of the bag

[Skamos66]

On 8/17/2023 at 11:38 PM, GNR4Ever2024 said:

Just fell to my knees in a walmart and jizzed all over the floor.

that has probably happened more times in a Walmart than the number of years we've waited for this song.

[Champy]

So is the general like estranged the follow up to it 

[StrangerInThisTown]

53 minutes ago, Champy said:

So is the general like estranged the follow up to it 

In what way? Because from what we know both lyrically and musically it will sound nothing like that song, it's a heavy metal tune about child abuse (allegedly)

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

7 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I bet most of those people would assume they are hearing Slash playing on the studio releases of Street Of Dreams, Chinese Democracy, This I Love, etc.

Most of those people would go “what the hell are Street of Dreams, Chinese Democracy, and This I Love?”

[Ak1nney]

What makes The General the holy grail of what we haven't heard? I didn't think a demo had even leaked. One thing I know though... If people are building it up to be this epic, best CD-era song ever, they are bound to set themselves up to be disappointed. High expectations are RARELY ever met.

[StrangerInThisTown]

23 minutes ago, Ak1nney said:

What makes The General the holy grail of what we haven't heard? I didn't think a demo had even leaked. One thing I know though... If people are building it up to be this epic, best CD-era song ever, they are bound to set themselves up to be disappointed. High expectations are RARELY ever met.

It's not because of the actual quality of the song but simply because it's mysterious and has actual decades of speculation behind it, a piece of music, that people have pretty much never heard. I don't think it will be any kind of mindblowing eargasm but more of a "finally knowing what it is" sort of deal, just to get that first listen in, is the holy grail.

I fell for the same trap with Atlas Shrugged which had that same thing going on, what was it called by some insider, a glam version of November Rain or some shit? And it ended up being a worse sounding Catcher In The Rye.

Yeah I'm simply expecting The General to be a kind of cool heavy song, probably better than the first 3 we've got.

Edited August 22, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

3 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

I fell for the same trap with Atlas Shrugged which had that same thing going on, what was it called by some insider, a glam version of November Rain or some shit? And it ended up being a worse sounding Catcher In The Rye.

 

I fell for this same trap with Atlas - which actually has become my least favorite Guns N’ Roses song ever - and I won’t fall for it again.

I’m hopeful for The General, but I’m not expecting much. It’s been around since at least 2002, right? If it was that good, wouldn’t it have been on Chinese Democracy?

I suppose I like Hard Skool better than a few CD songs, and Absurd better than If The World and IRS…

…but if this is a “monster” and the spiritual successor to Estranged, why wouldn’t they have put it on Chinese Democracy? Why wouldn’t the *label* have insisted?

I’m just keeping that in mind as we inch closer to the release of this white whale.

[StrangerInThisTown]

24 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

…but if this is a “monster” and the spiritual successor to Estranged, why wouldn’t they have put it on Chinese Democracy? Why wouldn’t the *label* have insisted?

I doubt we will ever know, it is the way it is "for reasons only known to Axl Rose" (always loved that Jimmy Kimmel quote lol). Maybe he really did have a trilogy in mind, I mean he did say to Sebastian it would be coming out on the 3rd album. We are talking about a guy here who put Scraped on his album, none of it makes sense to us.

Edited August 22, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown

[Blackstar]

If we believe Sebastian Bach, Axl still had a trilogy in mind as late as 2007. He probably abandoned the idea after the release of CD, but he continued talking about the "second half" of it.

[bumcheecksmcghee]

1 hour ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Most of those people would go “what the hell are Street of Dreams, Chinese Democracy, and This I Love?”

Not real gunners fans then that's all

[StrangerInThisTown]

7 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

If we believe Sebastian Bach, Axl still had a trilogy in mind as late as 2007. He probably abandoned the idea after the release of CD, but he continued talking about the "second half" of it.

Slash claims they reworked like 4-6 songs right? Seems a bit low for a second half, I'd expect the second half of chinese would have been CDII as in a whole album, I wonder what Axls plan is for the rest of the songs they haven't reworked then, maybe those are the ones he wants to use as "his" contribution to an actual new album later on? Is that a plan that makes sense maybe?

Edited August 22, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

I just think that when Axl talks about the “second half” or even a trilogy, he’s thinking conceptually rather than in terms of songs he has completed and ready to go.

I’ve said this before, but it’s more a matter of perspective. I think Axl may be the type to hear an instrumental like Mustache and say “okay, that’s a song. That’s going on the next album, once I figure out a vocal melody, write lyrics, and lay down a vocal track.” Whereas, to me, until he at least figures out a melody and writes a lyric, it’s still just an idea. And even if he has a vocal melody *in mind* but doesn’t do anything about it, still not a completed song to me.

So it’s not that I think Axl is lying, per se. I just think when he talks about the second half of Chinese Democracy, he means this pile of music (mostly instrumental, a handful with vocals) that he intends to finish someday, maybe, when he gets around to it.

Edited August 22, 2023 by GoodOlJohnnyK

[megaguns1982]

I have a feeling that “the general” will be released without slash or Duff on it.

if it was this huge masterpiece, with awesome guitars (cell phone clip) maybe Axl didn’t want it messed with and re-recorded. Possibly why it’s only a b-side. To keep the focus on the reunion.

he didn’t have a problem keeping brains drumming on the singles so far 

[Blackstar]

28 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

Slash claims they reworked like 4-6 songs right? Seems a bit low for a second half, I'd expect the second half of chinese would have been CDII as in a whole album, I wonder what Axls plan is for the rest of the songs they haven't reworked then, maybe those are the ones he wants to use as "his" contribution to an actual new album later on? Is that a plan that makes sense maybe?

It's possible that they have reworked more than 4-6 songs (that was the impression from earlier Slash interviews), but Axl was uncertain whether he wanted to release more than those 4-6.

19 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

I just think that when Axl talks about the “second half” or even a trilogy, he’s thinking conceptually rather than in terms of songs he has completed and ready to go.

I’ve said this before, but it’s more a matter of perspective. I think Axl may be the type to hear an instrumental like Mustache and say “okay, that’s a song. That’s going on the next album, once I figure out a vocal melody, write lyrics, and lay down a vocal track.” Whereas, to me, until he at least figures out a melody and writes a lyric, it’s still just an idea. And even if he has a vocal melody *in mind* but doesn’t do anything about it, still not a completed song to me.

So it’s not that I think Axl is lying, per se. I just think when he talks about the second half of Chinese Democracy, he means this pile of music (mostly instrumental, a handful with vocals) that he intends to finish someday, maybe, when he gets around to it.

It was most likely that when he was talking about a trilogy in 2002 (he said then that he had enough material, which, when finished, it would be three albums worth). But in 2014 he specifically said that the "second half" was already recorded. Moreover, you never know what is finished. For example, if the "CD2" tracklist (which predates the release of CD) that has been circulating is real as a few people have attested, just a few months before the release of CD Axl didn't plan to include Catcher In The Rye in it and intended to keep it for the second album, although the song was evidently finished by then (hell, it was already finished in 2000) and probably the plan changed because it leaked in the meantime. And, apparently, there was another finished song that was going to be on CD in its place.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Blackstar

[Free Bird]

16 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said:

I have a feeling that “the general” will be released without slash or Duff on it.

if it was this huge masterpiece, with awesome guitars (cell phone clip) maybe Axl didn’t want it messed with and re-recorded. Possibly why it’s only a b-side. To keep the focus on the reunion.

he didn’t have a problem keeping brains drumming on the singles so far 

Everything is possible but I personally don't think they would release it without the contribution of Duff and Slash. 

Why would Axl do this? He could have done it for 20 years but he waited for the reunion to piss everybody off? It doesn't mske any sense, that's why it IS possible in some way, but I don't believe it. Still waiting for the epic songs Slash mentioned when he said they were more complex then HS and Abdurd. Don't think Perhaps was that complex or even "epic"

[StrangerInThisTown]

7 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

It's possible that they have reworked more than 4-6 songs (that was the impression from earlier Slash interviews), but Axl was uncertain whether he wanted to release more than those 4-6.

I'm not sure I get it, what would they be reworking songs for if not..to release them?

[StrangerInThisTown]

3 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Everything is possible but I personally don't think they would release it without the contribution of Duff and Slash. 

Why would Axl do this? He could have done it for 20 years but he waited for the reunion to piss everybody off? It doesn't mske any sense, that's why it IS possible in some way, but I don't believe it. Still waiting for the epic songs Slash mentioned when he said they were more complex then HS and Abdurd. Don't think Perhaps was that complex or even "epic"

Yeah there is no way there are new GNR songs coming out without Slash on them. It is the entire draw of the band since 2016.

It being a B-side means fuck all to me, Coma would have never worked as an A side, and that didn't stop it from being one of GNRs best songs in the entire catalogue either. It's there for reasons the same as Coma would have been relegated to B-side, too weird structurally, too dark, maybe too long.

Edited August 22, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown

[Free Bird]

2 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

I'm not sure I get it, what would they be reworking songs for if not..to release them?

Probably he didn't like the reworked versions.

[Blackstar]

22 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said:

I have a feeling that “the general” will be released without slash or Duff on it.

if it was this huge masterpiece, with awesome guitars (cell phone clip) maybe Axl didn’t want it messed with and re-recorded. Possibly why it’s only a b-side. To keep the focus on the reunion.

he didn’t have a problem keeping brains drumming on the singles so far 

Not a chance. At most, there will be 2 seconds of Buckethead in there.

[StrangerInThisTown]

1 minute ago, Free Bird said:

Probably he didn't like the reworked versions.

You think Axl texted Slash: "your rework of these songs sucks, I'm not sure they're coming out" ?

Edited August 22, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown

[Blackstar]

7 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

I'm not sure I get it, what would they be reworking songs for if not..to release them?

maybe he just said "let's release those 6 and the others maybe later", so Slash went just with what was set in stone.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Blackstar

[Free Bird]

Just now, StrangerInThisTown said:

"You think Axl texted Slash: your rework of these songs sucks, I'm not sure they're coming out" ?

Don't know man, but they are matured  in the meantime. He could easily be honest and say "yeah, this is good" or "huh, I don't know, the direction of that is not what I imagined."

[StrangerInThisTown]

16 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Don't know man, but they are matured  in the meantime. He could easily be honest and say "yeah, this is good" or "huh, I don't know, the direction of that is not what I imagined."

I don't buy that to be honest. Either they reworked more and are holding onto it for later (maybe for an album) or they really only reworked like 6. Can't imagine Axl criticizing Slashs and Duffs work to the point he's unsure they would be coming out, he would just explain to them what he didn't like and have them change it if anything.

I don't think Axl even told Slash back in the day if his solos sucked, and that he had to record a new one, everyone simply did their thing and that was it (other than the SFTD debacle where the band was already on bad terms, anyway)

Edited August 22, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown

[megaguns1982]

48 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Not a chance. At most, there will be 2 seconds of Buckethead in there.

You don’t know that. Nobody does

[StrangerInThisTown]

4 hours ago, megaguns1982 said:

You don’t know that. Nobody does

The fact that Slash is back in the band alone rules out any possibility that there's any extended Buckethead on a new Guns N Roses song mate. This is full on tinfoil hat territory. Yeah it can happen, Buckethead can show up as a guest spot at the next show, that can happen too, so let's go and claim things that..can happen, I guess?

We can go around claiming there will be DJ Ashba riffs on the next song, I mean it can happen right? And at that point the forum has reached full padded cell mode instead of useful discussion. It's more useful to go with theories of something that is atleast somewhat realistic. Slash will make sure to be all over any song this band will ever release again, after being gone for some 20 years.

Edited August 22, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown