GNR Takes Swings at Donald Trump (the foam kind)

[RONIN]

4 hours ago, Blackstar said:

This would be pointless, because no racist/homophobe admits it or considers himself such; they're usually like "I'm not racist/homophobe but...". GnR had done it though with the only ones who are admittedly racists, ie. the KKK; they said "we don't want the KKK to come to our shows".

The Trump pinata stunt, whether one considers it immature, stupid, distasteful etc. or funny (my first reaction was negative, but after reading about how pinatas are used in Mexico, I think it was just a harmless fun happening), was clearly meant as a gesture to the Mexican people and as an act of deprecation of Trump for what he has said about them; it wasn't addressed to the Americans who voted for Trump. But Trump voters seem to take it as a personal insult to them. I think it has more to do with that conservatives considered (mistakenly) GnR and Axl their own, and now they are disappointed.

Some great points made here. My stance is simply that if they wanted to make a political statement, just be direct about it as certain celebrities/bands have like James Franco on his instagram feed who has a disclaimer for all sexists/homophobes to unfollow him. Kurt Cobain publicly asked for racists/sexists to not come to his shows. Point being -- they've used their platform to make a very clear statement.

In the case of Axl and co -- they're showing solidarity with their Mexican fans but at the same time alienating their conservative republican fans in America with this. I would say that most American fans of GnR are conservatives. This was not a smart move on their part. Had they just stated clearly that they stand with their Mexican fans and that racists/sexists,etc can f*uck off, that would have sent a clearer msg that may not have been as divisive. Not all Trump fans fall into those categories -- the people who do would have been upset, but the backlash wouldn't have been as big as it is now.

Needless to say, a stunt like this where a pinata of a US-president elect is trashed by fans and the band onstage, even one as divisive as Trump -- probably isn't the greatest PR move. Not to mention that it comes off a bit juvenile. These guys aren't young anymore to get away with such things. 

All that being said, I do agree that there has been a major overreaction here from the Trump supporters. I'm not sure why they're surprised given that GnR have always done dumb shit like this in the past. As you rightfully pointed out, it seems like they're taking it as a personal insult to them since they consider Axl/Guns to be their own. Couldn't have summed it up better really.

If you're not on board with an artist's politics, just enjoy the art?

[downzy]

8 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Some great points made here. My stance is simply that if they wanted to make a political statement, just be direct about it as certain celebrities/bands have like James Franco on his instagram feed who has a disclaimer for all sexists/homophobes to unfollow him. Kurt Cobain publicly asked for racists/sexists to not come to his shows. Point being -- they've used their platform to make a very clear statement.

In the case of Axl and co -- they're showing solidarity with their Mexican fans but at the same time alienating their conservative republican fans in America with this. I would say that most American fans of GnR are conservatives. This was not a smart move on their part. Had they just stated clearly that they stand with their Mexican fans and that racists/sexists,etc can f*uck off, that would have sent a clearer msg that may not have been as divisive. Not all Trump fans fall into those categories -- the people who do would have been upset, but the backlash wouldn't have been as big as it is now.

Needless to say, a stunt like this where a pinata of a US-president elect is trashed by fans and the band onstage, even one as divisive as Trump -- probably isn't the greatest PR move. Not to mention that it comes off a bit juvenile. These guys aren't young anymore to get away with such things. 

All that being said, I do agree that there has been a major overreaction here from the Trump supporters. I'm not sure why they're surprised given that GnR have always done dumb shit like this in the past. As you rightfully pointed out, it seems like they're taking it as a personal insult to them since they consider Axl/Guns to be their own. Couldn't have summed it up better really.

If you're not on board with an artist's politics, just enjoy the art?

Well, how do you suppose they make a clear political statement (though, I'm not sure how much clearer one can get than a Trump piñata) and not alienate certain fans?  That seems like an impossible task.  I understand if you're not comfortable or approving how they made their statement, but I'm not sure a twitter or concert rant by Axl or a song that lyrically attacked Donald would have soothed the concerns of conservative GNR fans in the states.

And again, look back at the history of this band.  Can't we at least agree that they rarely make decisions that are in their financial best interests?  How is this any different than no-shows, inciting riots, showing up three hours late, canceling entire tours, replacing all classic members, or taking 12+ years to release an album with respect to the financial health of the band?  

I'm starting to wonder if some here forget about who we're talking about here

[KiraMPD]

1 hour ago, downzy said:

We should also be careful not to put too much of this on Axl.  I'm fairly certain that if one of the band members expressed sincere doubt or concern about the piñata it wouldn't have happened.  Since it looks like the entire band stuck around after the show to either partake or spectate, it seems as though action was universally supported by all members.

This.

It is hilarious to see that some people are willing to ignore Slash and Duff's participation in favour of only holding Axl accountable. Guess it's easier for some to compartmentalise and place any and all blame on Axl, regardless of the situation... 

As for this particular 'stunt' by the band, I like it. I particularly like the fact that the band (for the most part) didn't actively/physically take part in it, but rather let their Mexican fans have a go.

Edited December 5, 2016 by KiraMPD

[BlueJean Baby]

Axl has a right to do whatever he feels like doing at his concerts, or anywhere else he wants to. You are right he always gets the full blame for anything that happens in the band. I can't see true fans being alienated though, we are just as rebellious in our own ways. And that's why we love GnR, they have the balls to speak out. He's very intelligent and pays attention to things going on in the world, what's wrong with expressing your opinion??

[BlueJean Baby]

Thank you OG for your words of wisdom

[wasteofammo]

I will never purchase a guns ticket ever again. 

[RussTCB]

2 minutes ago, wasteofammo said:

I will never purchase a guns ticket ever again. 

I truly can't wrap my head around these types of claims.

[BorderlineCrazy]

2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I truly can't wrap my head around these types of claims.

It's especially hilarious to see that post coming right after a bunch of great, well thought posts by @downzy @Blackstar @RONIN @Padme.

2 hours ago, downzy said:

We should also be careful not to put too much of this on Axl.  I'm fairly certain that if one of the band members expressed sincere doubt or concern about the piñata it wouldn't have happened.  Since it looks like the entire band stuck around after the show to either partake or spectate, it seems as though action was universally supported by all members.  

Absolutely. Slash was asked to chose between Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush in an interview last year. He chose Hillary and said he was leaving the country if there was another Bush as president. Trump is not Bush obviously but I think that kinda speaks of what he thinks of republicans overall. If there were any doubts, he wore that shirt with a Trump caricature and the legend "the idiot" on it when he attended at the F1 in Brazil.

Fortus seems to be as big of an anti-Trump as Del James. I believe Duff's opinion is kinda similar to Slash's. No idea about Frank...

Obviously, Dizzy's opinion on Trump is "whatever Axl says" and I imagine Melissa must be like "what is Trump? Are there any candies on that piñata?" 

[Ace Spade]

A lot of you seem to be missing the point that Trump is PERCEIVED to be the anti-establishment candidate. They are so sick of being fucked over by BOTH parties.

That's why they're angry when their favorite SEEMINGLY anti-establishment rock band trashes an effigy of him.

And if that was Obama hanging by a rope they would be getting crucified by the media right now.

[downzy]

21 minutes ago, Ace Spade said:

A lot of you seem to be missing the point that Trump is PERCEIVED to be the anti-establishment candidate. They are so sick of being fucked over by BOTH parties.

That's why they're angry when their favorite SEEMINGLY anti-establishment rock band trashes an effigy of him.

And if that was Obama hanging by a rope they would be getting crucified by the media right now.

Some might have drank the Kool Aid with respect to Trump being anti-establishment, but it would appear that's one drink members of GNR don't have a taste for.

Welcome to disagree, but to me there's a bit of difference between a noose effigy of a hanging political figure and a piñata caricature.   Are we now saying that all piñatas be interpreted as mock hangings?   Keep in mind this took place in Mexico, where the piñata has a strong associations with Mexican culture.  

[marlingrl03]

6 minutes ago, downzy said:

Some might have drank the Kool Aid with respect to Trump being anti-establishment, but it would appear that's one drink members of GNR don't have a taste for.

Welcome to disagree, but to me there's a bit of difference between a noose effigy of a hanging political figure and a piñata caricature.   Are we now saying that all piñatas be interpreted as mock hangings?   Keep in mind this took place in Mexico, where the piñata has a strong associations with Mexican culture.  

Exactly....my father lives in Mexico and he has said that there have been Trump piñatas down there for like a year. I think this thing will keep going round and round in circles. Can't wait till this thread is locked up! 

[downzy]

7 minutes ago, marlingrl03 said:

Exactly....my father lives in Mexico and he has said that there have been Trump piñatas down there for like a year. I think this thing will keep going round and round in circles. Can't wait till this thread is locked up! 

I think it's a little premature to shut down a topic a lot of people are still interested in and want to discuss.  Whenever you bring politics into a fan forum it's going to cause some sparks.

It's important for people to vent if it helps them feel better so long as they're respectful of other people's opinions.  

Eventually this conversation will run it's course.  Until then, if you've had enough discussing it personally, best to just leave it alone.  For people who enjoy this forum but may not have agreed with GNR's action we still want to be a destination where they can voice their opinion whether you or I agree with it.  

[marlingrl03]

4 minutes ago, downzy said:

I think it's a little premature to shut down a topic a lot of people are still interested in and want to discuss.  Whenever you bring politics into a fan forum it's going to cause some sparks.

It's important for people to vent if it helps them feel better so long as they're respectful of other people's opinions.  

Eventually this conversation will run it's course.  Until then, if you've had enough discussing it personally, best to just leave it alone.  For people who enjoy this forum but may not have agreed with GNR's action we still want to be a destination where they can voice their opinion whether you or I agree with it.  

Awww I know...just saying I can't wait till it is but yeah I understand your point!

[Allen8R]

This is one of the few times I regret that GNR being my favourite band.  Because they were already at the top of my books and after something like this I want them to be even higher!!!

 

 

A8R

[SteveAJones]

8 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

I agree more with this; "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." - Thomas Jefferson

"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

I knew Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson was a friend of mine. Guns n' Roses are no Thomas Jefferson.

[SteveAJones]

7 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Obviously, Dizzy's opinion on Trump is "whatever Axl says" and I imagine Melissa must be like "what is Trump? Are there any candies on that piñata?" 

I wish there was a Melissa pinata I could bang on. 

[SteveAJones]

5 hours ago, downzy said:

Welcome to disagree, but to me there's a bit of difference between a noose effigy of a hanging political figure and a piñata caricature.   Are we now saying that all piñatas be interpreted as mock hangings?   Keep in mind this took place in Mexico, where the piñata has a strong associations with Mexican culture.  

I agree there is a difference, but the problem is this can be misinterpreted outside of Mexico.

Can anyone confirm the pinata contained free t-shirts which were then distributed to the fans?

[SteveAJones]

13 hours ago, Padme said:

But for you it is a lowest common denominator. For you a better way to go is merchandising, but not for them. For them the best way to go was to make this joke.  You have your point of view and they have theirs. You find it offensive? Fine, I won't tell you how you should feel. But I don't think this issue or controversy is a compelling reason to stop being a fan and not going to shows anymore.

Perhaps not in and of itself it isn't but if this politicization of concerts continues it definitely is a compelling reason to stop attending the shows. If I wanted to be entertained by politcal b.s I'd go see Sting, U2 or Springsteen. 

[Padme]

1 minute ago, SteveAJones said:

Perhaps not in and of itself it isn't but if this politicization of concerts continues it definitely is a compelling reason to stop attending the shows. If I wanted to be entertained by politcal b.s I'd go see Sting, U2 or Springsteen. 

Have fun at some Justin Bieber and Bruno Mars shows. Obviously great shows, great music and legendary musicians are irrelevant to you if there is some degree of politics in the mix.

[SteveAJones]

1 hour ago, Padme said:

Have fun at some Justin Bieber and Bruno Mars shows. Obviously great shows, great music and legendary musicians are irrelevant to you if there is some degree of politics in the mix.

I've been into THIS band (Guns n' Roses) since 1987, and traveled to the US for two dates this past Summer. That said, if they can't leave politics out of their act I will skip the Japanese tour. Period.

[Modano09]

3 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

I've been into THIS band (Guns n' Roses) since 1987, and traveled to the US for two dates this past Summer. That said, if they can't leave politics out of their act I will skip the Japanese tour. Period.

You mean if they're going to express political views that oppose your own though, right?

[slipnslider]

On 12/3/2016 at 11:00 PM, -W.A.R- said:

yeah probably allot more than you think.

considering how trump voters have been stigmatized and the industry is against republicans, its better they stay quiet.

 

Ever think maybe that's for a good reason?

[SteveAJones]

47 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

You mean if they're going to express political views that oppose your own though, right?

ANY political statements. One would think "leave politics out of their act" means I prefer they leave politics out of their act.

Edited December 5, 2016 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

48 minutes ago, slipnslider said:

Ever think maybe that's for a good reason?

I  have followed and supported this band for 30 YEARS and tonight a fucking dolt on an internet discussion board suggests I go to Bieber or Bruno Mars shows instead. That's one good reason not to bother expressing an opposing point of view around here.  

 

[slipnslider]

14 hours ago, Ace Spade said:

A lot of you seem to be missing the point that Trump is PERCEIVED to be the anti-establishment candidate. They are so sick of being fucked over by BOTH parties.

That's why they're angry when their favorite SEEMINGLY anti-establishment rock band trashes an effigy of him.

And if that was Obama hanging by a rope they would be getting crucified by the media right now.

And N Sync was PERCEIVED to be a great band.

It's not up to intelligent people to cater to the horrible taste of dumbasses.

You tell them they're being dumbasses and explain why.  But trump voters, like N Sync fans, have no interest in hearing your logical explanations.  They have their choice and theyre sticking to it.