http://ultimateclassicrock.com/underrated-rock-albums/ -Chinese Democracy in The list

[RONIN]

On 3/15/2017 at 6:28 PM, Wagszilla said:

This I Love was reportedly not even considered for the album during much of the saga.

It was going to be on the What Dreams May Come soundtrack in 1998 and would serve as the first taste of new Axl/GN'R music in many years.

That honor would eventually go to Oh My God on the End of Days soundtrack in 1999 instead.

It was worked in 1998 for the film, 2000 with Howard Karp (Axl's piano), and eventually brought back into the fold at Robin's behest. Patti Hood laid down harp on it in 2004 and oddly didn't hear her work on the final album.

Another mystery. 

 

Ahh -- that's right. Yeah -- iirc, when Robin came to the song, it was still a piano demo with no vocals. I'm guessing there's probably no demo with Duff and Slash on it.

I wish they would make a movie about this whole saga. Part 1 would start with the Illusions and document the disintegration of the old band ending with Duff officially leaving in '97. Part 2 should document the events from '97-'03. 

Probably the most interesting music story never told.

[RONIN]

5 hours ago, MYWIFEMYLIFE said:

TSI is a wonderful album full of interesting covers and the sound quality is awesome.

Chin Dem is a masterpiece. It's the only GNR kinda record among all the member's solo albums. 

I like the way that album sounds -- so much better than the Illusions. Matt sounds way better and I dig Axl's voice in '93-'94. Ironically, the more the band was splintering during that time, the better they sounded. They sound tight on Spaghetti even without Izzy.

[RONIN]

1 minute ago, Wagszilla said:

I'd doubt it considering Slash's attitude towards "Stephanie Seymour ballads" at the time.

If we don't get a box set of the 2000, 2002, and 2004 albums at a minimum, I'm going to... I'm going to.... be... upset and post on the internet about it. 

You, me and probably 10 other people here probably. 

Truth be told, I'm looking forward to these chinese sessions/leftovers more than a new album from the trinity (unless they recycle the 96 demos). 

They should just drop a 60-80 song boxset of that whole era with a UYI re-mix bonus album -- my dream scenario. 

[wasted]

I listened to Prostitute (without Piano) and it's like a Bucket instrumental. You can also hear a lot of orchestra and synths that are buried. Haunting shit but you can barely hear it on the record. 

The Shackler's drum track is also exquisite. It's so crisp and nuanced. Bucket plays that Kornesque riff. 

The guitar tracks of Shackler's and Prostitute are pretty similar. They are like weird Bucket instrumentals. 

[bucketfoot]

2 hours ago, wasted said:

I listened to Prostitute (without Piano) and it's like a Bucket instrumental. You can also hear a lot of orchestra and synths that are buried. Haunting shit but you can barely hear it on the record. 

The Shackler's drum track is also exquisite. It's so crisp and nuanced. Bucket plays that Kornesque riff. 

The guitar tracks of Shackler's and Prostitute are pretty similar. They are like weird Bucket instrumentals. 

I enjoy listening to the album as much in instrumental form, because there's so much going on with the music. There's just so much in there that at times you have to strip Axl's vocals out to take it all in.

[wasted]

4 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

I enjoy listening to the album as much in instrumental form, because there's so much going on with the music. There's just so much in there that at times you have to strip Axl's vocals out to take it all in.

That's what I found too. But I only have 2 tracks in instrumental. I also found Axl's vocals sound more powerful when not buried under the army of machines. 

I can't think of a way to get all the layers without making the songs longer. But orchestral tracks and Buckets playing is one album. 

[God of Thunder]

I always liked the album, very complex and different styles, especially songs like TWAT or Better (songs like CD or IRS really not that much for me). It works more of a studio album to listen to at home than at the concerts. Its principal "error" is that the songs not really straight and memorable "hits" that you want to sing along to at a life show.

[bucketfoot]

2 hours ago, wasted said:

That's what I found too. But I only have 2 tracks in instrumental. I also found Axl's vocals sound more powerful when not buried under the army of machines. 

I can't think of a way to get all the layers without making the songs longer. But orchestral tracks and Buckets playing is one album. 

I remember an interview where Axl said he wanted the music to get to a level where he had to compete against it, one person against a wall of sound trying to kick its ass or something. I thought that was a really cool quote tbh.

[wasted]

34 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

I remember an interview where Axl said he wanted the music to get to a level where he had to compete against it, one person against a wall of sound trying to kick its ass or something. I thought that was a really cool quote tbh.

He said something similar about UYI. The difference is I think his voice became part of the machines on CD. His voice blended and became another instrument. So you lose some of the character of the vocals. But the isolated vocals have a lot more emotion. Like the screams on IRS and Twat sort of get lost unless you really listen a lot and get lost inside the maze. 

[bucketfoot]

19 minutes ago, wasted said:

He said something similar about UYI. The difference is I think his voice became part of the machines on CD. His voice blended and became another instrument. So you lose some of the character of the vocals. But the isolated vocals have a lot more emotion. Like the screams on IRS and Twat sort of get lost unless you really listen a lot and get lost inside the maze. 

Agree to an extent, good point. I think that's where the overproduction thing comes up for a lot of people, that it somehow sounds a bit soulless, empty as opposed to AFD and UYI. It's certainly not an easy listen but I think it's an endlessly fascinating record and the story/mystery behind it's creation, with the delays and everything, just adds to it really. I think he really wanted it to be his defining statement and in the end got so consumed by it he just struggled to let go. If it had sold well I think we would have seen CD2(3?) by now but he must've been stung by it failing to find a mass audience.

[-W.A.R-]

1 hour ago, bucketfoot said:

Agree to an extent, good point. I think that's where the overproduction thing comes up for a lot of people, that it somehow sounds a bit soulless, empty as opposed to AFD and UYI. It's certainly not an easy listen but I think it's an endlessly fascinating record and the story/mystery behind it's creation, with the delays and everything, just adds to it really. I think he really wanted it to be his defining statement and in the end got so consumed by it he just struggled to let go. If it had sold well I think we would have seen CD2(3?) by now but he must've been stung by it failing to find a mass audience.

loving that profile picture  

better watch out though...Axl wants that pic removed from the internet 

Edited March 17, 2017 by -W.A.R-

[Silent Jay]

'99

A label spokesperson for GN'R told MTV News on Tuesday that Finck has recorded "several albums" worth of material for Guns N' Roses, and his work there is done. They added that all the music for the long-awaited project has been recorded, although the vocals have yet to be completed. 

[Silent Jay]

"I'd helped write and arrange and recorded enough songs for several records. [...] Honestly, we recorded so many different song ideas and completed so many different types of songs; from quiet, very simple traditional piano songs to 16 stereo tracks of keyboard blur and everything in between. [...] Most of the stronger songs that ended up on A-lists when I was there were huge rock songs, built for the masses, really guitar-driven." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"We wrote and rehearsed and argued and laboriously recorded several records worth of musical material, which to the best of my knowledge Axl is still finishing. But my work was through. We had dozens of finished songs, as far as I was concerned, and we were waiting for Axl to complete the songs." (Robin, 2000)

"It was great for a while, but then it became terribly frustrating not seeing anything completed because no lyrics were finished. [...] No one song was ever completed and I was there for two and a half years." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"I was excited about the material - the band sounded good. But we'd get a song done to an extent and wait for Axl to write a lyric and/or song. I couldn't work on songs with titles like 'Instrumental 34' anymore." (Robin, Kerrang, 12/99)

"Adding to the frustration was that Finck had passed on the chance to work with Trent Reznor on NIN's latest, The Fragile, in order to do the Rose sessions. 'It's one of the reasons I'm not there anymore. [...] When he finishes the lyrics, I assume [the songs] are going to be released. [...] There's not a release date right now, not that I'm aware of, [...] And I would know. [...] I hope [the songs] turn out great. There's a lot of potential there.'" (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"'I was with Axl for a little over two years,' [Finck] says, 'and we recorded dozens of songs together. I'm really proud of what we did as a band. I'm anxious to see how it's completed.' Well, will it be? 'Oh, yes,' Finck says, grinning. 'You may depend on it.'" (Robin, Rolling Stone, 10/99)

[bucketfoot]

25 minutes ago, Silent Jay said:

"I'd helped write and arrange and recorded enough songs for several records. [...] Honestly, we recorded so many different song ideas and completed so many different types of songs; from quiet, very simple traditional piano songs to 16 stereo tracks of keyboard blur and everything in between. [...] Most of the stronger songs that ended up on A-lists when I was there were huge rock songs, built for the masses, really guitar-driven." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"We wrote and rehearsed and argued and laboriously recorded several records worth of musical material, which to the best of my knowledge Axl is still finishing. But my work was through. We had dozens of finished songs, as far as I was concerned, and we were waiting for Axl to complete the songs." (Robin, 2000)

"It was great for a while, but then it became terribly frustrating not seeing anything completed because no lyrics were finished. [...] No one song was ever completed and I was there for two and a half years." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"I was excited about the material - the band sounded good. But we'd get a song done to an extent and wait for Axl to write a lyric and/or song. I couldn't work on songs with titles like 'Instrumental 34' anymore." (Robin, Kerrang, 12/99)

"Adding to the frustration was that Finck had passed on the chance to work with Trent Reznor on NIN's latest, The Fragile, in order to do the Rose sessions. 'It's one of the reasons I'm not there anymore. [...] When he finishes the lyrics, I assume [the songs] are going to be released. [...] There's not a release date right now, not that I'm aware of, [...] And I would know. [...] I hope [the songs] turn out great. There's a lot of potential there.'" (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"'I was with Axl for a little over two years,' [Finck] says, 'and we recorded dozens of songs together. I'm really proud of what we did as a band. I'm anxious to see how it's completed.' Well, will it be? 'Oh, yes,' Finck says, grinning. 'You may depend on it.'" (Robin, Rolling Stone, 10/99)

Yeah, I remember the interview with Robin in Kerrang where he mentioned 'Instrumental 34' etc. Makes you wonder how much material he may have in the vault and how much of it we'll ever hear, if any.

[wasted]

12 hours ago, bucketfoot said:

Agree to an extent, good point. I think that's where the overproduction thing comes up for a lot of people, that it somehow sounds a bit soulless, empty as opposed to AFD and UYI. It's certainly not an easy listen but I think it's an endlessly fascinating record and the story/mystery behind it's creation, with the delays and everything, just adds to it really. I think he really wanted it to be his defining statement and in the end got so consumed by it he just struggled to let go. If it had sold well I think we would have seen CD2(3?) by now but he must've been stung by it failing to find a mass audience.

Not sure. There's a theory CD was a stand alone record theme wise and there was another one that was less focused. It may have been revised as time went by to include TIL and other CD II tracks. Axl said some were switching between the two. Something like Scraped isn't from 99, but it's like a rallying call for the final push. Some songs might have earlier origins but Shack, Sorry, ITW seem to get finished in 2004. Sorry fits the petty dictator theme. If the World might be what Axl called electronica with full guitars from CD II when Ridley Scott heard it and wanted it for the movie.  I think Axl said that a record should have the spirit of the band on it. So if Frank or Ron join they have go on there. It's hard to tell what caused the delays. GNR expectations and greed seem to be around. Then you sort of have to accept Axl had his reasons. He just wanted to be happy with it. He also said he didn't want to throw up a brick. I think the Beavan record may have worked in a way. But I don't think the label were ever in for supporting a 3-4 album run. So Axl had one shot. In the end it's probably a better record for the extra work. It's a unique record with an interesting story behind it. It does seem perfect for the iphone gen. On headphones all these little bits of ear candy weaved together in a rock tapestry. Sums up era pretty well. Maybe the early versions would have been rawer and more cathartic but easier to pin down. Just raging. Silkworms just didn't sound like GNR, but The Blues did. But on CD every track has a GNR quality. Like Shackler's doesn't at first but after awhile a real GNR structure is there. Then SOD isn't as 80s rock as you'd expect, it has a very nu metal glitziness. The songs really did get more focused and balanced in the end. So it is something new, not just UYI songs with some industrial songs thrown in. It was the right record. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by wasted

[Mendez]

21 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

I'd doubt it considering Slash's attitude towards "Stephanie Seymour ballads" at the time.

If we don't get a box set of the 2000, 2002, and 2004 albums at a minimum, I'm going to... I'm going to.... be... upset and post on the internet about it. 

whoa dont get crazy now

[bucketfoot]

32 minutes ago, wasted said:

Not sure. There's a theory CD was a stand alone record theme wise and there was another one that was less focused. It may have been revised as time went by to include TIL and other CD II tracks. Axl said some were switching between the two. Something like Scraped isn't from 99, but it's like a rallying call for the final push. Some songs might have earlier origins but Shack, Sorry, ITW seem to get finished in 2004. Sorry fits the petty dictator theme. If the World might be what Axl called electronica with full guitars from CD II when Ridley Scott heard it and wanted it for the movie.  I think Axl said that a record should have the spirit of the band on it. So if Frank or Ron join they have go on there. It's hard to tell what caused the delays. GNR expectations and greed seem to be around. Then you sort of have to accept Axl had his reasons. He just wanted to be happy with it. He also said he didn't want to throw up a brick. I think the Beavan record may have worked in a way. But I don't think the label were ever in for supporting a 3-4 album run. So Axl had one shot. In the end it's probably a better record for the extra work. It's a unique record with an interesting story behind it. It does seem perfect for the iphone gen. On headphones all these little bits of ear candy weaved together in a rock tapestry. Sums up era pretty well. Maybe the early versions would have been rawer and more cathartic but easier to pin down. Just raging. Silkworms just didn't sound like GNR, but The Blues did. But on CD every track has a GNR quality. Like Shackler's doesn't at first but after awhile a real GNR structure is there. Then SOD isn't as 80s rock as you'd expect, it has a very nu metal glitziness. The songs really did get more focused and balanced in the end. So it is something new, not just UYI songs with some industrial songs thrown in. It was the right record. 

I think while the Beavan record would've sounded great at the time if released '00-'02, it could well have dated horribly depending on the extent it's industrial leanings. I think, in a way, the extra years that passed were probably for the best, as the record we ended up with does have a classic feel overall and the gleaming production is, ultimately, what'll make it stand the test of time. I'd love to hear the Beavan record to compare the two.

Edited March 18, 2017 by bucketfoot

[BlueJean Baby]

I have always loved it. When it came out, we were literally moving to Arizona and I got online and found a Best Buy on the way so I could stop and buy it....listened to it several times that day on the road and loved it. 

[bucketfoot]

15 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

I have always loved it. When it came out, we were literally moving to Arizona and I got online and found a Best Buy on the way so I could stop and buy it....listened to it several times that day on the road and loved it. 

Yeah, I remember buying it the day it came out, going home, putting the headphones on and playing it a few times. It was amazing after waiting so long for it. I remember thinking it was a bit ballad heavy  Like it needs a couple more rockers on it! Oh My God should be on there! Some of it blew me away, Better, SOD, TWAT, Madagascar and I.R.S., some of it took a bit longer to grow on me. One of the main things at the time was the talk of another album following it in quick succession and I couldn't wait to hear more Nearly ten years later, still waiting!

[wasted]

9 hours ago, bucketfoot said:

I think while the Beavan record would've sounded great at the time if released '00-'02, it could well have dated horribly depending on the extent it's industrial leanings. I think, in a way, the extra years that passed were probably for the best, as the record we ended up with does have a classic feel overall and the gleaming production is, ultimately, what'll make it stand the test of time. I'd love to hear the Beavan record to compare the two.

Yeah but I thing marinading it makes it timeless. 

But there's also this instinct to join the machines which is cool. In the future there will be dictators and machines. And Axl chose machines. 

All my doggs up against a life sentence. 

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

Love Chinese. My favorite Guns album as well (relative "newness" and quirkiness no doubt plays a role when I've listened to the classic material a billion times since 88-93). Great to see it getting some "after-the-fact" respect too. 

Particularly as a "one-offer" (i.e. non-Slash album)- it's kind of the Halloween III: Season of the Witch (Halloween film w/o Michael Myers) in the Guns discography- which has its own group of passionate, cult fans. 

[action]

On 12/3/2017 at 10:39 PM, Kris_1989 said:

For those that don't want to flip through:

Came in at #42

I died at the part "remarkably cohesive"

 

[lenni19]

I dont care what anyone says, in my eyes CD is a great Album

This I love is one of the greatest Songs i have ever listend to

[Słash]

Why do you think Robins backing vocals were removed from Madagascar from the Final version? 

he did backing vocals during live performances, his vocals were even there in the leaked demo

But in the final studio version, its basically Axl's voice in the backing vocals. 

[wasted]

Uber eats? Automation is going to lead to albums made by robots. Or computer programs. No doubt the only way to make a profit. Why have a guitarist play like a robot when you can just get a robot to play on your mp3 file?