The Boxing Thread

[Len Cnut]

30 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Apparently there were two different endings. In the US Marciano won but they had Ali winning in Europe. 

I wonder why  

[spunko12345]

Olympic athletes devote so much and focus purely on an Olympic year and for my man the Olympics was just a fucking party 😁 nicking jet skis and waking Andy Murray up before his tennis match to challenge him to a game of FIFA 

[action]

On 4/10/2020 at 12:33 PM, Len Cnut said:

Ali had a chin of granite, I can’t see Mike pointsing him, it’d have to be a knockout...and Ali fought the biggest punchers in heavyweight history, Shavers, Foreman, Liston, Terrell, Cleveland Williams etc weren’t exactly small compared to Tyson either.  Also, Ali had heart, at the 11th hour when his back was up against the wall Tyson always jacked it in, a moving dancing Ali would’ve just jabbed his head off, Tyson suffered from a lack of heart, Tyson never really beat a great fighter in their prime, which hurts to say cuz Mike is a hero of mine.

Its all fuckin’ projection end of the day though, who knows.

ali wins by decision

Edited May 12, 2020 by action

[spunko12345]

He'll want to eat Lennox Lewis grandchildren  after this one 😂

[Dazey]

11 hours ago, spunko12345 said:

He'll want to eat Lennox Lewis grandchildren  after this one 😂

For a starter maybe.  

[Len Cnut]

Its a load of noise about nothing, exhibition bout, not like its a proper fight.  And all these lot goin' 'oh he'd do todays fighters', no he fuckin' wouldn't, any boxer or ex boxer under 65 can get in the gym, get in good nick and look amazing on the pads but if he got in the ring he'd look 53 REALLY fuckin' quick.  Listen, I love Mike Tyson, not only one of my earliest heroes but probably like...the first person I was ever aware of in culture.  But it is what it is, everybody has their day and then they're done.

[DieselDaisy]

Probably not much more interesting than that Ali fight against the Japanese chap who spent the entire fight on the ground trying to do diving footy tackles. Exhibition matches are garbage.

[axlvai]

Hey what about Tyson vs Mayweather? 

 

[Len Cnut]

Boxing is on again, 1st June, behind closed doors, no audience.

14 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Probably not much more interesting than that Ali fight against the Japanese chap who spent the entire fight on the ground trying to do diving footy tackles. Exhibition matches are garbage.

They’re not really supposed to be entertaining in the typical sense, they are the boxing equivalent of a watching a footy warm up or something.

[scottish nutter]

On 14/05/2020 at 11:23 AM, Len Cnut said:

Its a load of noise about nothing, exhibition bout, not like its a proper fight.  And all these lot goin' 'oh he'd do todays fighters', no he fuckin' wouldn't, any boxer or ex boxer under 65 can get in the gym, get in good nick and look amazing on the pads but if he got in the ring he'd look 53 REALLY fuckin' quick.  Listen, I love Mike Tyson, not only one of my earliest heroes but probably like...the first person I was ever aware of in culture.  But it is what it is, everybody has their day and then they're done.

Yes and the video with him on the pads isnt even a 1 shot video, he has different colour tshirts on every few seconds so its filmed and edited to look fast lol

 

Tyson fury is the name im hearing he is going in with, its not even going to be a sparring session, i can see it being a "you hit me a few time and i will hit you a few times"

[Len Cnut]

 

'Fireman' Jim Flynn trying to butt Jack Johnsons head off, ref don't seem arsed, does he?

[Len Cnut]

Boxings back tonight, WHOOO HOO!!!!  Shakur Stevenson getting a little warm up in before he fucks Josh Warrington up.

[Len Cnut]

 

Steady six round beating.

[spunko12345]

Listen from about 1hr 30mins 😂 All of them high as fuck and Tyson is talking about his dick like it's a sentient human being plotting against him 😂 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by spunko12345

[Len Cnut]

On 12/06/2020 at 6:13 PM, spunko12345 said:

Listen from about 1hr 30mins 😂 All of them high as fuck and Tyson is talking about his dick like it's a sentient human being plotting against him 😂 

 

Yeah I saw that interview, Shannon spoke to Mike like I speak to everyone that starts getting emotional on me when I’m high   

[Len Cnut]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/boxing/12008250/billy-joe-saunders-canelo-alvarez-fight-train/

I can't fuckin' believe Bill sometimes.  I really rate him, always have, always stuck up for him but this is taking the piss.  Hard to back this.  This is it, this is the shot, your chance at the pound for pound best, after all his fuckin' set backs and all that bollocks, all the people saying that he's just kidnapping the title, he goes and does this, fuckssake Bill.

[Len Cnut]

29 minutes ago, lukepowell1988 said:

Been selected to Beta Test DAZN

What the fucks that mean?

[Len Cnut]

2 minutes ago, lukepowell1988 said:

Get to download the app early and test it for buggs ect.

You mean watch the footy for gratis, you jammy fucker   Get me on the firm innit!

[Gavin82]

Katie Taylor confirms Aug 22nd for her Delfine re match on Sky box office Eddie H also confirms its live from Essex Match Room HQ back garden 

[Len Cnut]

Billy Joe facing a possible ban for his 'dismantling your mums fanny' tweet aimed at Eubank Jnr.  Also Dillian Whyte had ditched Mark Tibbs as trainer, or parted ways rather, just as Deontay Wilder has parted ways with former welterweight Mark Breland.  Also, Dillian Whyte is fighting Alexander Povetkin in Eddie Hearns back garden.

[Len Cnut]

2 minutes ago, lukepowell1988 said:

Hearn can fuck off if he thinks i'm paying £25 for Whyte Povetkin

 

Will be streaming this one.

Not a bad fight yknow, I’ve paid for worse.

[Iron MikeyJ]

On 5/14/2020 at 6:23 AM, Len Cnut said:

Its a load of noise about nothing, exhibition bout, not like its a proper fight.  And all these lot goin' 'oh he'd do todays fighters', no he fuckin' wouldn't, any boxer or ex boxer under 65 can get in the gym, get in good nick and look amazing on the pads but if he got in the ring he'd look 53 REALLY fuckin' quick.  Listen, I love Mike Tyson, not only one of my earliest heroes but probably like...the first person I was ever aware of in culture.  But it is what it is, everybody has their day and then they're done.

Long time no see...

 

Anyways, I'd like to chime in here. As a general rule, I agree with you, but Mike was different. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY ever truly beat Tyson, Tyson beat himself. As painful as those last two losses were to watch, they were losses where his heart wasn't in it, he didn't train that much and was fighting just for money (not to mention he was battling drug addiction at that time). 

I'm not trying to sit here and do revisionist history here, but the reality is when Tyson was REALLY into boxing, training, taking it seriously, etc he never lost. This statement includes Buster Douglas, it's a well known fact that he didn't train or take that fight seriously. A PRIME Tyson (fully trained and engaged) is a SERIOUS problem for ANY fighter that ever lived, including Ali. While I'm not going to say for certain "Tyson beats Ali" but Ali DID struggle with Joe Frazier, and Tyson was a MUCH tougher (and similar) animal as Frazier. I've heard MANY boxing experts talk about this, and most agree. I'll just leave it at that.

 

As for Mike making a comeback... I have mixed feelings about it. If he is taking it seriously (and he appears to be doing so), he could and WOULD be a dangerous fight for any of the top guys right now. Does that mean he would win? No. But he could give them trouble. Tyson Fury would be the WORST fight for a 54 year old Mike. I wouldn't want him to take that fight. I think the reasons why are self evident. Joshua I'm also not a huge fan of Mike taking. Joshua DOES have a suspect chin, but I feel after 6 or so rounds it would be Lennox vs Tyson all over again. 

Which leaves Wilder, that's the one guy I say "maybe" too. Now it's not a full on "yes Mike will win" but it's also not a for sure "Mike will lose either." What Wilder lacks, Mike has TONS of, even at 54. Wilder is a one trick pony, and Mike knows that. Avoid the right hand, he can be easily beaten. His footwork is terrible, his technique is terrible, his actual boxing skills are suspect. These are things that a prime Mike would have eaten for lunch. Obviously Mike is long past his prime, but even at 54 he could still take advantage of. 

What Mike would HAVE to do, is similar to what Foreman did. Don't go in looking for an early knockout (if Mike does that, he could be gassed by the 5th round). If he paces himself, waits for his opening, uses his FAR superior technique and boxing knowledge, and goes to wilders BODY a 54 year old Mike CAN knockout Wilder. I'm not saying he will, I'm just saying it's a BAD matchup for Wilder, and Wilder is dumb enough to want that fight (very Rocky 6 like). 

But that's really the ONLY real fight I would want Mike to take. Other than that, I agree... Exhibitions.

 

As for what I said earlier, I know you are going to have problems with and I'm sure we will have to agree to disagree. I heard Teddy Atlas talk about Tyson vs Holmes recently. No dissrepect for Holmes, but even if Holmes was 28, the result would have been the same. Cus, Kevin, Teddy, and Tyson KNEW how to beat Larry. They had a game plan for how to deal with him (just like Schmeling had for Louis). Holmes had a flaw in his technique that Tyson was trained to take advantage of. Even though Teddy was out of he picture at that point, he made a bet (and won money) on Tyson knocking out Holmes with a right hand. Sure enough, that's what happened. After hearing that, you can't dismiss Tyson's ko of Holmes. Yes he was older, but that was TYSON'S guy, who he trained for, studied, etc. A prime Mike Tyson beats a prime Holmes every time. As for Ali, he would have been tougher than Holmes for Tyson, but it's a bad matchup for Ali, but I'm not going to declare a winner. I know you are going to talk about Tyson's heart vs other guys heart. But Tyson gets a bad wrap for his heart. Did he have Ali's heart? No. But it's still elite level. Lennox, Holyfield, and others have talked about it. Mike didn't give up (outside of the bite fight). He kept coming and coming. He also had a chin of granite. Those same guys have said that as well. 

Frazier... Tyson easily

Louis... Tyson (Tyson was too fast and strong for him, and I LOVE Joe Louis)

Foreman... That's a tough call, could go either way. Can Foreman deal with Tyson's speed? Can Tyson handle the bigger, stronger Foreman?

Liston... Underrated all time fighter, arguably best jab ever, yes I said that. He might be the WORST matchup for Mike out of everyone.

Holyfield... No disrespect meant, but it's pretty much "out" that Holyfield was on steroids by the mid 90s. The REAL Holyfield from 91/92 couldn't handle Prime Mike imo. But it still would have been a great fight. 

Lennox... Again no disrespect, but Lennox in the early 90s wasn't ready for Mike at that time. When Lennox WAS ready for him, Tyson was no longer really "into" boxing anymore, it was just a paycheck. A prime Mike vs a prime Lennox, Lewis's chin doesn't hold up imo. 

 

These are my true feelings. I'm not saying Mike is the GOAT, that's Ali and I'm not arguing it. But Iron Mike Tyson was the most talented heavyweight to EVER step in a boxing ring. He would have been trouble for ANY FIGHTER from ANY era. Mike didn't have the greatest career ever (that's Ali). I also admit that both Holyfield and Lennox had better careers during Mike's era. But I also say that if Cus had been 10 years younger, Tyson beats Douglas, then beats Holyfield, doesn't go to prison, and history is VERY different.

[Len Cnut]

Quote

Anyways, I'd like to chime in here. As a general rule, I agree with you, but Mike was different. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY ever truly beat Tyson, Tyson beat himself. As painful as those last two losses were to watch, they were losses where his heart wasn't in it, he didn't train that much and was fighting just for money (not to mention he was battling drug addiction at that time). 

I'm not trying to sit here and do revisionist history here, but the reality is when Tyson was REALLY into boxing, training, taking it seriously, etc he never lost. This statement includes Buster Douglas, it's a well known fact that he didn't train or take that fight seriously.

Is that his opponents fault?  Since when did not taking your job seriously and being a dick qualify you for futherance in a field of achievement?  You live and die by what you achieve in the ring and the fact that you were doing drugs or not taking your opponent seriously does not qualify you for a pass, not in sport, not in real life, not in anything.  And all this talk of prime, a great fighter, someone to be counted as among the greats, they get a lot done outside of their prime too.  You could argue Muhammad Ali was already way past his prime after the Foreman fight, look at the fights he put up.  Part of being a great is being professional, getting it done despite whatevers going on in your life.  Shit, are we gonna start expunging records of fighters now by going through their histories and writing off fights that they fought and lost because they were under some sort of strain or duress?  Cuz there'll be a long list of fighters getting a pass then. 

Quote

 

As for Mike making a comeback... I have mixed feelings about it. If he is taking it seriously (and he appears to be doing so), he could and WOULD be a dangerous fight for any of the top guys right now. Does that mean he would win? No. But he could give them trouble. Tyson Fury would be the WORST fight for a 54 year old Mike. I wouldn't want him to take that fight. I think the reasons why are self evident. Joshua I'm also not a huge fan of Mike taking. Joshua DOES have a suspect chin, but I feel after 6 or so rounds it would be Lennox vs Tyson all over again. 

Which leaves Wilder, that's the one guy I say "maybe" too. Now it's not a full on "yes Mike will win" but it's also not a for sure "Mike will lose either." What Wilder lacks, Mike has TONS of, even at 54. Wilder is a one trick pony, and Mike knows that. Avoid the right hand, he can be easily beaten. His footwork is terrible, his technique is terrible, his actual boxing skills are suspect. These are things that a prime Mike would have eaten for lunch. Obviously Mike is long past his prime, but even at 54 he could still take advantage of. 

What Mike would HAVE to do, is similar to what Foreman did. Don't go in looking for an early knockout (if Mike does that, he could be gassed by the 5th round). If he paces himself, waits for his opening, uses his FAR superior technique and boxing knowledge, and goes to wilders BODY a 54 year old Mike CAN knockout Wilder. I'm not saying he will, I'm just saying it's a BAD matchup for Wilder, and Wilder is dumb enough to want that fight (very Rocky 6 like). 

 

I honestly don't wanna see Mike, who is a personal hero of mine, coming back at 50 something and getting knocked around the ring.  This is a tough and dirty sport and a well edited youtube video of Mike on the pads can make him look like the Mike of old but he ain't, nobody is and after about three rounds and he starts walking like he's standing in treacle and catching jabs flush to the face, it would all make sense.  The fact is Mike barely gave a shit about boxing since the mid 90s, he lost fights to some dire opponents, not even including Kevin McBride here but people like fuckin' Danny Williams?  See I'm from here and I watched Danny Williams fight on a regular so I know what a fuckin' plummet in standards Danny Williams is for a man like Mike Tyson, Danny Williams is national level at best, not even close to world level...and he beat Mike, regardless of whether Mike was taking shit seriously or not.  And this is 2020 here.  I don't wanna see it.
 

Quote

 

As for what I said earlier, I know you are going to have problems with and I'm sure we will have to agree to disagree. I heard Teddy Atlas talk about Tyson vs Holmes recently. No dissrepect for Holmes, but even if Holmes was 28, the result would have been the same. Cus, Kevin, Teddy, and Tyson KNEW how to beat Larry. They had a game plan for how to deal with him (just like Schmeling had for Louis). Holmes had a flaw in his technique that Tyson was trained to take advantage of. Even though Teddy was out of he picture at that point, he made a bet (and won money) on Tyson knocking out Holmes with a right hand. Sure enough, that's what happened. After hearing that, you can't dismiss Tyson's ko of Holmes. Yes he was older, but that was TYSON'S guy, who he trained for, studied, etc. A prime Mike Tyson beats a prime Holmes every time. As for Ali, he would have been tougher than Holmes for Tyson, but it's a bad matchup for Ali, but I'm not going to declare a winner. I know you are going to talk about Tyson's heart vs other guys heart. But Tyson gets a bad wrap for his heart. Did he have Ali's heart? No. But it's still elite level. Lennox, Holyfield, and others have talked about it. Mike didn't give up (outside of the bite fight). He kept coming and coming. He also had a chin of granite. Those same guys have said that as well. 

 

 

 

I don't dismiss no ones beating of no one, Mike knocked Larry the fuck out, plain and simple, was he older?  Yes he was but he weren't so old that he couldn't throw hands and if he weren't up for it he shouldn't've laced up gloves.  Larry don't ask or look for no ones sympathy and we should respect him enough to not dish it out like he's some kinda lost puppy.  As for Tysons heart, yeah he had heart but there's kinds of heart.  Tyson had stand there and take my lumps heart, which by itself is commendable.  Did he have competitive find a way fuck you I'm not losing to this guy kind of heart?  One could easily argue against it.  But then whats an argument, its me talking and you talking back, we're not in there taking the fucking shots, all we can go by is what the record reflects.  Mike don't choke, that much is for damn sure but what does happen is, by his own admission, after a certain point, he's just like 'OK, I've lost this fight'. 

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Frazier... Tyson easily

Louis... Tyson (Tyson was too fast and strong for him, and I LOVE Joe Louis)

Foreman... That's a tough call, could go either way. Can Foreman deal with Tyson's speed? Can Tyson handle the bigger, stronger Foreman?

Liston... Underrated all time fighter, arguably best jab ever, yes I said that. He might be the WORST matchup for Mike out of everyone.

Holyfield... No disrespect meant, but it's pretty much "out" that Holyfield was on steroids by the mid 90s. The REAL Holyfield from 91/92 couldn't handle Prime Mike imo. But it still would have been a great fight. 

Lennox... Again no disrespect, but Lennox in the early 90s wasn't ready for Mike at that time. When Lennox WAS ready for him, Tyson was no longer really "into" boxing anymore, it was just a paycheck. A prime Mike vs a prime Lennox, Lewis's chin doesn't hold up imo. 

 

Comparing fighters of different eras is...I dunno, a fools errand.  Its never gonna happen and its kinda disrespectful to make shit up.  Also, sports evolve, times change, comparing someone like Dempsey to fuckin' Klitschko cuz they were both heavyweights of their time is just stupid, those old timey guys used to fuckin' drink beer and eat steak and chop wood to train for fights, the comparisons are silly.  All you can judge a man by is what he did in his day.  And Joe Louis did more in his day than ANY fighter in the ring, you could even argue Ali if you wanted to...and to then diminish a mans achievements by comparing him to a man 50 years later is just disrespectful.  The fact is he did what NONE of these other guys did, held the title and kept it for the longest time in heavyweight history, even Klistchko couldn't touch his record. 

Tyson and Holy', Tyson and Lewis, these are fair comparisons, men of each other times and place in the world.  I believe Tyson destroys Holyfield had they met after or around the Douglas time and Mike was being a fucking cunt in camp, he'd beat him.  Maybe points, slightly less likely a late stoppage but Mike takes him.  Lennox gets decapitated.  But again, this is all disrespectful.  The fact is Mike fought them when he was alive and well and a reasonably young man.  Tyson and Lewis are the same age and Holyfield is older than Tyson.  And if you're not training or doing it for a paycheck well again thats hard cheese, why should the other guys achievement be diminished because you're a cunt?  I mean these guys flog their guts out in the ring and in training camp, do the work, get in the ring, get the W and then all of a sudden, after all that, there's people out there going 'oh that don't count cuz Mike was smoking weed', what the fuck?!   Does Cleveland Williams get a pass from the Ali fight cuz he got shot before that fight and weren't the same man?  He doesn't, does he?  Does Liston get a pass cuz he had a shoulder injury prior to the first Ali fight?  Shit, there's rumours Liston was doing heroin around the mid 60s.

Every single fighter ever, despite what they say in the press conferences about 'i had a great camp', you don't your body through those kinds of rigours without carrying some kind of niggle.  They don't all live easy cushy lives that don't have shit going on in them, the only difference is we all love Mike and dissect the minutia of his life and pore over it obssessively and then make these kinds of fuckin' excuses but there are no fuckin' excuses, an L is an L whether its Ali fighting Holmes or Tyson fighting Kevin McBridge, thats what you get judged by, thats what you live and die on.

This is part of why Mayweather, love him or hate him, is so amazing.  He is the consummate professional.  50 times, no fuckin' excuses and any time a fight was even vaguely close he ran it back and did the job again, better, so there's no contentious points.  Joe Louis, for all you say about him, lost one fight in 14 years.  Thats 14 fuckin' years.  fighting at the top level.  And he went to the army in between that shit too.  Everyone goes on infinitely about the effect not going to the army had on Ali and how he was never the same man, no one even says shit about Joe Louis and he came back and still dealt with opponents.  And you don't think Joe Louis was going through some shit in his life? 

And Tyson and Lewis, Lewises chin was no better in 2002 than it was in the 90s, you can't train a chin, its just Mike couldn't touch it. 

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These are my true feelings. I'm not saying Mike is the GOAT, that's Ali and I'm not arguing it. But Iron Mike Tyson was the most talented heavyweight to EVER step in a boxing ring.

I disagree, Mike couldn't fight going backwards, every time a fighter backed him up he struggled, the D'amato style is built for exciting boxing and aggressive defence but the fact is you tie Mike up, pop him with the jab coming in, smother his inside work, then Mike struggles, just like he did against Douglas, Holy and Lewis.  But then you could argue Ali had flaws in that regard too, ever see Ali throw a bodyshot?  Then again, he kinda never needed to.

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But I also say that if Cus had been 10 years younger, Tyson beats Douglas, then beats Holyfield, doesn't go to prison, and history is VERY different.

Again, this is a popular party line, that Cus woulda kept him on the straight and narrow, people walk around with a couple of books and a documentary or two under their belt acting like they know these people but no one knows what their relationship was like or what it would evolve into, its all just blind conjecture.  IF his trainer had lived, IF he had cared about boxing, IF he wasn't doing drugs, IF he didn't have emotional problems...thats like saying 'well, IF I was a completely different person I could've been heavyweight champion!'

Edited July 13, 2020 by Len Cnut

[Dazey]

11 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Is that his opponents fault?  Since when did not taking your job seriously and being a dick qualify you for futherance in a field of achievement?  You live and die by what you achieve in the ring and the fact that you were doing drugs or not taking your opponent seriously does not qualify you for a pass, not in sport, not in real life, not in anything. 

That would be like me arguing that I should be counted amongst the best short term memory having people in the world as I was pretty sharp in that area pre-2000.   

[Len Cnut]

20 minutes ago, Dazey said:

That would be like me arguing that I should be counted amongst the best short term memory having people in the world as I was pretty sharp in that area pre-2000.   

Its just a ridiculous mode of thinking, isn’t it?  I mean, you’ve done coke right, got pissed and all that, imagine going into work tommorow, off your tits from the night before, fucking shit up and then everyone going ‘nah, but he’s a cracking chemical engineer when he’s not on charlie though, be fair!’   Thats not how life works, for anyone...apart from Mike Tyson apparently.