Guns N Roses Live at the Ritz 87 leaked(complete)!!!

[AncientEvil80]

2 hours ago, Almost Famous said:

Well. Guess my yearly visit comes today. 😈✌️

Let’s see. Where to start. The first four and a half songs are not on the tape. Whatcha see is whatcha get.

The backstory; I bought a lot of promo VHS tapes on eBay, two maybe three years ago now. I just assumed the Ritz tape in the lot was the ‘88 show. It sat around my house for a year, year and a half, something like that before I decided to hook up the VCR and watch it. When it came on through that part of Jungle I knew instantly what I had just purchased was a diamond. 

I did a shitty and quick transfer to digitalize the tape and then created the Teaser I posted on youtube. I was contacted by gnrontour, and he expressed interest in doing the transfer. Being a huge fan of the jm78/gnrontour Bootleg releases and what he has done for the Bootleg community over the years, I was immediately on board and willing to send the tape out to him for transferring.

We decided to release it on the 30th Anniversary of the show, simply because of the anniversary. That is partly why I/we sat on it. The other reason was to garner interest from other traders...

I didn’t get anything for the show, no ChiDemos, no VMA Rehearsals, nothing like that at all. Only stating this because I see inquiring minds wondering in this thread. 

Lmao. Can ya roll me a couple joints? Sounds like you’ve got some good smoke. The first songs simply do not exist. Whatcha see is whatcha get. 

Thank you. Truly. 

Have to admit I was somewhat pissed off when I started losing hope we'd ever see the rest of this tape/bootleg. At you, also. I couldn't conceive how you'd keep it all for yourself... LOL.

I take it all back. You made people happy. 

[The Holographic Universe]

2 minutes ago, AncientEvil80 said:

Have to add also that the SOUND of the drum-set also plays a HUGE part. That plastic-y 80's bubble gum sound is vital to the integrity of GNR music. 

Unfortunately, some people in GNR entourage does everything in their power NOT to have that sound ever again. SAD.

Perhaps Steven was vital to the sound of the band at that time, but Steven is an unmitigated disaster as a human being. And, compared to the others in the band he is not an artist of any caliber. 

[diegodasilva23]

Great show! I just didn't like that Rocket Queen has an audio fail in a part of it, the volume of the sound goes down. It would probably be the best version of Rocket Queen if it didn't happen. Can someone edit it to be better? I mean, improve it?

Other thing, can someone put the audio of the show in mp3?

[AncientEvil80]

1 minute ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Perhaps Steven was vital to the sound of the band at that time, but Steven is an unmitigated disaster as a human being. And, compared to the others in the band he is not an artist of any caliber. 

Dude, opinions etc etc... like assholes, right?

That said, fuck off. Cause the other guys in the band have not been/are not disasters as human beings? Really? AXL????

Beside the point, how can you judge Adler, apart from his drumming? Please find the time to judge yourself as a human fucking being first of all. Most of us are here for THE MUSIC.

5 minutes ago, diegodasilva23 said:

Great show! I just didn't like that Rocket Queen has an audio fail in a part of it, the volume of the sound goes down. It would probably be the best version of Rocket Queen if it didn't happen. Can someone edit it to be better? I mean, improve it?

Other thing, can someone put the audio of the show in mp3?

 

[The Holographic Universe]

Just now, AncientEvil80 said:

Dude, opinions etc etc... like assholes, right?

That said, fuck off. Cause the other guys in the band have not been/are not disasters as human beings? Really? AXL????

Beside the point, how can you judge Adler, apart from his drumming? Please find the time to judge yourself as a human fucking being first of all. Most of us are here for THE MUSIC.

I love your passion for the band, the music and Steven. But, even Izzy is on record saying Steven is a very confused human being. To me Axl is one of the greatest artists over the last 50 years. Steven is not considered an artist of any significance. My point is that the band does not need Steven to be a potent musical force. 

[diegodasilva23]

12 minutes ago, AncientEvil80 said:

Dude, opinions etc etc... like assholes, right?

That said, fuck off. Cause the other guys in the band have not been/are not disasters as human beings? Really? AXL????

Beside the point, how can you judge Adler, apart from his drumming? Please find the time to judge yourself as a human fucking being first of all. Most of us are here for THE MUSIC.

 

I didn't mean to put the audience record of the show in mp3, I mean to put the soundboard record of this pro-shot in mp3.

[AncientEvil80]

6 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

I love your passion for the band, the music and Steven. But, even Izzy is on record saying Steven is a very confused human being. To me Axl is one of the greatest artists over the last 50 years. Steven is not considered an artist of any significance. My point is that the band does not need Steven to be a potent musical force. 

Again, your opinion. 

The band NEEDS Steven just like it needs the other AFD4. Nothing more, nothing less.

Potent musical force? What is it, some sort of competition? Or wait, like I need something else of "quality" to be sold to me? Fuck that. We've all heard this BULLSHIT for decades. From inside the band and outside... just to be sold something that just ain't the fucking same.

If one cannot perceive the magic that AFD5 were in those few months, and are willing to accept any other incarnation of the band as equal, simply DO NOT GET IT. 

Nothing personal, Holo. Of course...

[The Holographic Universe]

4 minutes ago, AncientEvil80 said:

Again, your opinion. 

The band NEEDS Steven just like it needs the other AFD4. Nothing more, nothing less.

Potent musical force? What is it, some sort of competition? Or wait, like I need something else of "quality" to be sold to me? Fuck that. We've all heard this BULLSHIT for decades. From inside the band and outside... just to be sold something that just ain't the fucking same.

If one cannot perceive the magic that AFD5 were in those few months, and are willing to accept any other incarnation of the band as equal, simply DO NOT GET IT. 

Nothing personal, Holo. Of course...

Of Course not. 

[AncientEvil80]

11 hours ago, Padme said:

I must add that RQ sounded amazing without the neverending solo they are doing now. Why can't they play it like this?

I second that.

I guess Ricky and Slashie just wanna show how "great" they are at improvising licks over it, so we all drool in admiration... when instead they only reiterate their mediocrity at doing so: can you imagine what a Guthrie Govan could REALLY do over it? Heck, even just a Ciro Manna? 

I'm just SMH at the current state of affairs, yet again.

[ludurigan]

39 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Perhaps Steven was vital to the sound of the band at that time, but Steven is an unmitigated disaster as a human being. And, compared to the others in the band he is not an artist of any caliber. 

PERHAPS

oh, thanks for letting me know that steven is not an artist of any caliber compared to the other guys. I always thought he was the greatest drummer ever and i always thought that that alone makes him a fantastic artist, but since you are saying that he is not, I suppose that, PERHAPS, you are correct!

37 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Steven is not considered an artist of any significance.

considered by whom? by you, PERHAPS?

[ludurigan]

6 minutes ago, AncientEvil80 said:

Ricky and Slashie

[RONIN]

Serious question here - can Steven still play at the level this band needs? Maybe he won't be able to handle the brain and sorum material?

I saw those youtube videos of him playing YCBM at some show but it seems like some people thought that his medical conditions/age had finally caught up and affected his playing. 

In any case, I'd agree that Steven's playing is essential to GnR. I can't stand the drumming on Illusions.

[AncientEvil80]

9 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Serious question here - can Steven still play at the level this band needs? Maybe he won't be able to handle the brain and sorum material?

I saw those youtube videos of him playing YCBM at some show but it seems like some people thought that his medical conditions/age had finally caught up and affected his playing. 

In any case, I'd agree that Steven's playing is essential to GnR. I can't stand the drumming on Illusions.

What level does the band NEED???? It's not fucking Jazz Fusion - Chick Corea, Tribal Tech, The Aristocrats, Spastic Ink etc etc etc etc....

That said, I totally think Steven can play the other songs. His own spin, just like fucking Frank does currently (ALAS!!!!). As a matter of fact, I believe (personal opinion) that he can only improve the arrangements over the original songs he wasn't on. Easy peasy lemon fn' squeezy.

As for medical conditions/age affecting his playing: yep, he is not playing the same way he was in the 80's, sorry. Small details, and some people won't even notice. I do. 
Still, he's more suited than any Sorum/Brain/Ferrer ever was.

[jacdaniel]

Great show! Makes it baffling when people say Robin is their favourite guitarist or the 2002 line up was best. 

 

All 5 are on fire and the chemistry is brilliant. 

[Carburetta]

This sounds fantastic.

The Heavens door tribute was poignant.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Carburetta

[DieselDaisy]

They could never recapture one iota, not one drop, of their 1980s brilliance for a multitude of reasons. Rose is too lazy and his voice is shot. Rose, Slash and Duff are besotted with cash. There is no togetherness. The crowds are shit now so there is no energy to feed off. You could I suppose pop Adler back in there and get the groove instantly back but Rose's voice will still be shot regardless of who drums.

Also, they have never written a note of music since 1991. You have to remember that in 1987 they had a brand spanking new album out that I am sure they were all very proud of, and that they were determined to play. When you are just phoning in thirty year 'hits' you are never going to possess the same enthusiasm and energy.

[RONIN]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

They could never recapture one iota, not one drop, of their 1980s brilliance for a multitude of reasons. Rose is too lazy and his voice is shot. Rose, Slash and Duff are besotted with cash. There is no togetherness. The crowds are shit now so there is no energy to feed off. You could I suppose pop Adler back in there and get the groove instantly back but Rose's voice will still be shot regardless of who drums.

Also, they have never written a note of music since 1991. You have to remember that in 1987 they had a brand spanking new album out that I am sure they were all very proud of, and that they were determined to play. When you are just phoning in thirty year 'hits' you are never going to possess the same enthusiasm and energy.

So basically, get the 5 guys into one room and have them crank out new music - Axl's vocal issues can be sorted out in the studio. Unfortunately, Marc Canter has been trying to do exactly that for the last 20 years. 

[AncientEvil80]

5 minutes ago, RONIN said:

So basically, get the 5 guys into one room and have them crank out new music - Axl's vocal issues can be sorted out in the studio. Unfortunately, Marc Canter has been trying to do exactly that for the last 20 years. 

I don't know. Well... Nobody knows 

Surely they can put together new songs, but if they sound like anything they produced after 1991, apart from each other... well, OUCH. LOL And yes, Velvet Revolver is just sub-par. And you all know it.

Just kidding. Or maybe not. Sadly.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, RONIN said:

So basically, get the 5 guys into one room and have them crank out new music - Axl's vocal issues can be sorted out in the studio. Unfortunately, Marc Canter has been trying to do exactly that for the last 20 years. 

I do not think it would work to be honest. The togetherness was broken and can not be put back in place and all this cash floating around messed with their heads. They have also developed into completely different people since 1987, egotists, perfectionists, caricatural 'celebrities', businessmen, hermits, hair rock survivors. At least in 1987 they were walking the same path. Now they'd be pulling in different directions and there would be too much historical baggage. 

[RONIN]

20 minutes ago, AncientEvil80 said:

What level does the band NEED???? It's not fucking Jazz Fusion - Chick Corea, Tribal Tech, The Aristocrats, Spastic Ink etc etc etc etc....

That said, I totally think Steven can play the other songs. His own spin, just like fucking Frank does currently (ALAS!!!!). As a matter of fact, I believe (personal opinion) that he can only improve the arrangements over the original songs he wasn't on. Easy peasy lemon fn' squeezy.

As for medical conditions/age affecting his playing: yep, he is not playing the same way he was in the 80's, sorry. Small details, and some people won't even notice. I do. 
Still, he's more suited than any Sorum/Brain/Ferrer ever was.

Fair enough, I'd agree with that assessment. But there is one perhaps valid point that the anti-Adler folk make: the guy hasn't stayed current. He hasn't added to his repertoire really. He's remained that late 80's rock drummer of his youth and the others, particularly Axl, Duff, and even Slash have largely improved on their craft and pushed outside of their comfort zone. They've grown as musicians. Axl is a better songwriter than he was in the 80's by exploring different styles of music. Slash has found the courage to venture outside of his beloved cock rock and that has brought out interesting aspects of his playing.

I know there are a lot of AFD purists here but my favorite albums were the Illusions. I like that they updated their sound and branched off to do different things. That was a bold move to follow up AFD in that way. I like that they didn't become AC/DC and make 20 of the same cock rock albums. One of GnR's biggest strengths is the variety and versatility of their catalogue.

Izzy and Steven have for better or worse become timewarped - musicians frozen in their prime. If Steven can only really play AFD style material and couldn't adapt to the newer material (as Alan Niven has said), does he really have a place in the band if they're thinking of releasing new material? If we are looking for a proper follow up to Illusions and not an 80's throwback album, wouldn't Steven's playing instantly date any future material?

I think aside from the money/personal issues, it's this particular thought that Axl is weighing in his mind when he chose to limit Izzy and Adler from the reunion. Maybe he felt Izzy and Steven belong in the past and that they haven't maintained their skills enough to be relevant for this era of the band. I don't necessarily agree with that but I suspect it's definitely part of the conversation the "partners" have had. Didn't Steven even mention before that he thinks Duff doesn't think much of him as a drummer?

6 minutes ago, AncientEvil80 said:

I don't know. Well... Nobody knows 

Surely they can put together new songs, but if they sound like anything they produced after 1991, apart from each other... well, OUCH. LOL And yes, Velvet Revolver is just sub-par. And you all know it.

Just kidding. Or maybe not. Sadly.

Everything after 1991 was subpar imho. Especially Velvet Revolver.

[DieselDaisy]

Compared to that I'd go as far to say the entire Illusion period was fairly sub par. Watch that then watch the Tokyo videos and you'll see what I mean haha

[AncientEvil80]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Compared to that I'd go as far to say the entire Illusion period was fairly sub par. Watch that then watch the Tokyo videos and you'll see what I mean haha

That's 1992. Enuff said LOL

[RONIN]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Compared to that I'd go as far to say the entire Illusion period was fairly sub par. Watch that then watch the Tokyo videos and you'll see what I mean haha

Without a doubt. 1991 was probably the last year of their "prime" but I think it's crystal clear that GnR really peaked as a live band in '87-88.

[AncientEvil80]

5 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Fair enough, I'd agree with that assessment. But there is one perhaps valid point that the anti-Adler folk make: the guy hasn't stayed current. He hasn't added to his repertoire really. He's remained that late 80's rock drummer of his youth and the others, particularly Axl, Duff, and even Slash have largely improved on their craft and pushed outside of their comfort zone. They've grown as musicians. Axl is a better songwriter than he was in the 80's by exploring different styles of music. Slash has found the courage to venture outside of his beloved cock rock and that has brought out interesting aspects of his playing.

Man, just think for a minute. Duff. What has he evolved to? We're talking rock n roll here. Please don't tell me Steven wouldn't be able to drum to Coma, or Estranged. Fuck, even Don't Cry, LMFAO. Cause I will bite your head off. Sorum is not that far ahead technically to Adler. NEVER FUCKING WAS, especially back then.

 

[AncientEvil80]

9 minutes ago, RONIN said:

 

Izzy and Steven have for better or worse become timewarped - musicians frozen in their prime. If Steven can only really play AFD style material and couldn't adapt to the newer material (as Alan Niven has said), does he really have a place in the band if they're thinking of releasing new material? If we are looking for a proper follow up to Illusions and not an 80's throwback album, wouldn't Steven's playing instantly date any future material?

I think Niven was wrong. Dead wrong, if he said that. 

Just listen to the demos of Locomotive. Don't Damn Me. 

Date? What does that mean? Axl's biggest mistake IMHO was to never really understand that he was way more innovative and future looking by taking straight from the past of RNR, and re-interpret it GNR-way, no bullshit, now frills, just sexiness and rebellion and ange and hunger... not trying to do some new "technical" shit to impress fellow musicians and critics, especially when you don't really have the skills to. But hey, his opinion on that.