Rumors of Izzy & Steven returning?

[Stro]

1 hour ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

explain why there unreliable 

IM REALLY CURIOUS TO KNOW YOUR REASONING 

and im dying in suspense please do tell with examples that don't inlcude

oh yeah adler was strung out in 1990 and izzy left in 91 or my back or i stabbed myself or i didn't get equal loot .... 

Because Izzy has flaked out on: 

GNR: Multiple times, including at the start of the biggest tour of their careers without warning, forcing them to get a last second replacement for a stadium tour, also was unreliable during the recording and UYI, then again when he came back while Gilby had a broken hand. He's unreliable in the sense that you can't count on him to not just bail and go home without warning. 

VR: Just up and vanished on them while working on songs, went years without staying in contact with Slash/Duff in either direction of the VR project. 

In general has made it very clear he does not like and is not willing to do the scale of tours that GNR does. Even if he did agree to do one, you can't be assured that he won't bail on it half way and not honor contracts, because he has a track record of breaking contracts and going dark, sometimes for years at a time. After turning down the deal for the reunion, he went to a sound check and jammed in 2017 for a guest spot like Adler had done, decided he didn't want to do that either, and left without telling anyone. 

 

Steven Adler wasn't just strung out in 1990, he's been strung out for most of the past 30 years and also can not handle the rigors of such a large scale and long tour that GNR does, also has more issues than just drugs. He's fortunate he even got guest spots in 2016.

 

People with poor track records generally don't get multiple chances when there are hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. 

[Ant]

14 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

duff had a point in his book when he said that all original 5 could dance 

the groove

they turned their concerts into a club 

they all would dance ahahahaha 

That's why the Stones can still tour. They chop the beat up... syncopation... everyone can dance, man. If people are dancing and grooving maybe we could chill with the obsessions over rasp etc  .

Replace Charlie Watts and Ronnie (Let alone Mick Taylor!) with Frank and Fortus. Or considering Izzy is a rhythm guitarist and chief songwriter.... Watts and Keith. 

You think Keith is gonna play with Mick on salary! He'd rather chill in Jamaica. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Ant

[Modano09]

3 hours ago, janrichmond said:

 

 

We don't know this as a fact do we?

No, but it pretty plausible that once Duff and Axl reconnected they probably discussed Slash at some point, doesn't it? 

 

[Modano09]

5 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

According to some people it was because Duff and Slash toured more than Izzy during their years OUTSIDE of Guns lol... Then there are people that say that Duff and Slash were part of some partnership that helped run Guns N' Roses during the dark 23 year period.. That is such bullshit... I would like to see what they actually did during those years in regards to Guns.. To me it seemed like they were more focused on Velvet Revolver, Loaded, Snakepit, Neurotic Outsiders and SMKC... Guns N' Roses were irrelevant for 23 years.. What could they have been doing aside from the input they had on Live Era?

I fail to see how it's "bullshit" that Axl/Slash/Duff were in "some partnership". It's literally what happened. I mean, I get it, you don't seem to think the 3 people who legally owned and operated the brand should be more entitled to "loot" that those who didn't but that's not, you know, reality or realistic. 

As for what they actually did during those years, look up the various lawsuits they were on the same or opposite side of, or anytime a GNR song was licensed, or Live Era, or deciding which logos could be used, etc.....This may be hard to understand but it's possible for Slash to be in Velvet Revolver and still legally entitled to control how his previous work in GNR is used at the same time.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

1 hour ago, Stro said:

Because Izzy has flaked out on: 

GNR: Multiple times, including at the start of the biggest tour of their careers without warning, forcing them to get a last second replacement for a stadium tour, also was unreliable during the recording and UYI, then again when he came back while Gilby had a broken hand. He's unreliable in the sense that you can't count on him to not just bail and go home without warning. 

VR: Just up and vanished on them while working on songs, went years without staying in contact with Slash/Duff in either direction of the VR project. 

In general has made it very clear he does not like and is not willing to do the scale of tours that GNR does. Even if he did agree to do one, you can't be assured that he won't bail on it half way and not honor contracts, because he has a track record of breaking contracts and going dark, sometimes for years at a time. After turning down the deal for the reunion, he went to a sound check and jammed in 2017 for a guest spot like Adler had done, decided he didn't want to do that either, and left without telling anyone. 

 

Steven Adler wasn't just strung out in 1990, he's been strung out for most of the past 30 years and also can not handle the rigors of such a large scale and long tour that GNR does, also has more issues than just drugs. He's fortunate he even got guest spots in 2016.

 

People with poor track records generally don't get multiple chances when there are hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. 

you're right! 

Izzy sucks 

and adler more 

 

fortus, melissa and frankie bear will go down in history as way better 

now where's my VIP ticket to meet Dizzy Reed?!!! 

[Modano09]

9 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

you're right! 

Izzy sucks 

and adler more 

 

fortus, melissa and frankie bear will go down in history as way better 

now where's my VIP ticket to meet Dizzy Reed?!!! 

Why can't you just acknowledge or try to refute his actual points? Nobody said Izzy sucks. They said he has a history of flaking out and not wanting to commit to long-term plans. 

And you can be sarcastic about Fortus, Melissa and Frank all you want but nobody cares about Steven Adler anymore than they do them. 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

2 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

Why can't you just acknowledge or try to refute his actual points? Nobody said Izzy sucks. They said he has a history of flaking out and not wanting to commit to long-term plans. 

And you can be sarcastic about Fortus, Melissa and Frank all you want but nobody cares about Steven Adler anymore than they do them. 

ok great did you contract a market research company to conduct surveys? if so please share these results i am intrigued 

because nobody cheered Adler on like maniacs when he surprised everyone in CINCINATI they just thought he was some guy .. 

Mr. NITL Policeman 

Edited July 19, 2019 by double talkin jive mfkr

[Ant]

Those points have been refuted; he's ignoring Izzy's rationale for doing so. Izzy is on record saying he doesn't have a problem with touring! It's the structure of the tour / business of the band. I think people are just talking past each-other at this point  . 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Ant

[Modano09]

3 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

ok great did you contract a market research company to conduct surveys? if so please share these results i am intrigued 

because nobody cheered Adler on like maniacs when he surprised everyone in CINCINATI they just thought he was some guy .. 

Mr. NITL Policeman 

Sure.

The NITL tour has grossed $563 million. Because nobody cared if Steven Adler was there or not. 

[Modano09]

4 minutes ago, Ant said:

Those points have been refuted; he's ignoring Izzy's rationale for doing so. Izzy is on record saying he doesn't have a problem with touring! It's the structure of the tour / business of the band. I think people are just talking past each-other at this point  . 

I'm very skeptical that Izzy would sign up for years of world touring. I think his history suggests he wouldn't, but we don't know that was the reason. For me, it's a simple as he cashed out his GNR chips when he wanted to be bought out and leave the band so why should be profit again and be paid the same as the people who didn't? 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

6 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

Sure.

The NITL tour has grossed $563 million. Because nobody cared if Steven Adler was there or not. 

ok then send me the VIP ticket to meet Dizzy and stop bragging about the mula!

[Ant]

9 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

I'm very skeptical that Izzy would sign up for years of world touring. I think his history suggests he wouldn't, but we don't know that was the reason. For me, it's a simple as he cashed out his GNR chips when he wanted to be bought out and leave the band so why should be profit again and be paid the same as the people who didn't? 

3 hours ago, Ant said:

I think you just have to view it as a totally different mindset and agree to disagree with it.  

Izzy doesn’t want to be a lower-tier employee in a hierarchical business operation. He doesn’t want to be dictated to -- that's why you form a rock band! If we’re going to be a band going forward, there’s gotta be equality straight across. 5 guys in a band. He brought more than his share to the table in establishing the DNA of the band and it survives today on those contributions. Izzy made a lot of cash selling his stake and missed out on a lot of merchandising/licensing cash or whatever, too... how do we do it going forward.

“Hey Izz, yeah, Team Beta will write you cheque, *pat on the head.* Now let’s do Patience!”

He feels like he brings and has brought enough to claim equality (us Izzy fans agree), the other three see it as you do, apparently, and that’s where we’re at. He’s constantly being minimized (which financial worth is a part of) and then gaslit as not being up for touring.

Nobody is totally right or wrong, I guess is what I’m sayin’. But man, you start down that tortured business logic path and you wonder why bands can't match their initial creative output. Makes me want to start an avocado farm. 

That's my version of articulating the Izzy position as I've discerned it. 

Again I think it's possible to disagree reasonably, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as you do.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Ant

[Minche]

Don't shoot, guys, but this has become repetitive. No offense. ✌

[MaskingApathy]

1 hour ago, Stro said:

After turning down the deal for the reunion, he went to a sound check and jammed in 2017 for a guest spot like Adler had done, decided he didn't want to do that either, and left without telling anyone. 

I'm not sure that actually happened. Apart from Niven saying that there hasn't been any proof.

[Modano09]

5 minutes ago, Ant said:

That's my version of articulating the Izzy position as I've discerned it. 

Again I think it's possible to disagree, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as you do.

I didn't see that comment earlier.

I mean, I can see both sides of it. Izzy doesn't want to be treated like an employee, or lesser than the other guys that he started the band with. And he shouldn't be. I don't think he should be treated like a Fortus or be dictated too, he should have had the same mutual respect and understanding that Axl/Slash/Duff seem to have come to. 

But if he thinks he deserves "equal loot" because they're just simply all original members so they're on the same level, he's just wrong. How is it fair to Axl/Slash/Duff to have already paid this guy for his share and now have him expect to cash in on what they've been controlling and negotiation and making happen when he was sitting around wanting nothing to do with it until there was significant "loot" to be had?

[double talkin jive mfkr]

2 minutes ago, Minche said:

Don't shoot, guys, but this has become repetitive. No offense. ✌

agreed its obvious mike modano (who didn't truly win a cup hull foot was in the crease) and others are trying to get this locked 

but to put it back on topic - there seems to be some smoke here where theres smoke theres fire 

my guess is that nobody will really  know if these original class acts make an appearance until a day or so before one of the shows probably in mid west then from there who knows 

[Ant]

5 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

But if he thinks he deserves "equal loot" because they're just simply all original members so they're on the same level, he's just wrong. How is it fair to Axl/Slash/Duff to have already paid this guy for his share and now have him expect to cash in on what they've been controlling and negotiation and making happen when he was sitting around wanting nothing to do with it until there was significant "loot" to be had?

Yeah, I wish we had more insight into what Izzy was offered! I just hope the "Big Three" () really gave him an offer that reflected his true value and, if they didn't, and having cashed in now with their half a billion dollars, are willing to go back to the table to build something even better coming off the NITL tour. 

[Powderfinger]

7 hours ago, kiwiguns said:

It's funny, how some of you as fans, have convinced yourselves that the current drummer needs to go, or for a million other reasons ex band members need to return or are in fact coming back, based on personal opinions, with no facts to back any of these theories up, or are under the impression what they say on a fan message board is going to change anything the band does with its current line up. 

I suppose that's what happens when you spend your life in a fan forum, you come to believe you are part of the bands world and what you say counts.

Its does not matter. You guys have no control of what the band, current members or past members do in relation to their involvement in the band, just like Axl, Duff, Slash, Richard, Melissa, Frank, Dizzy or Izzy have no control over what you guys do in life. 

19 pages currently, this thread could go to 100 pages but nothing will change. It is, what it is. 

Where would we lessers be without your weight of judgement upon us and this thread. 

Thank you for your points, your points are very important to us, your points are the next points we will respond to, please return when this thread hits 100 pages, thank you. 

 

(It’s a thread about the possibility of new music and what the band could and do sound like, I don’t think anyone here would have the ego to think what they say makes a difference to the band, we’re talking crap about a band, like we do on other bands forums most likely while sitting on the bus)

 

 

[Powderfinger]

2 hours ago, Ant said:

That's why the Stones can still tour. They chop the beat up... syncopation... everyone can dance, man. If people are dancing and grooving maybe we could chill with the obsessions over rasp etc  .

Replace Charlie Watts and Ronnie (Let alone Mick Taylor!) with Frank and Fortus. Or considering Izzy is a rhythm guitarist and chief songwriter.... Watts and Keith. 

You think Keith is gonna play with Mick on salary! He'd rather chill in Jamaica. 

Yes ! Completely agree my man. 

[Ant]

5 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

(It’s a thread about the possibility of new music and what the band could and do sound like, I don’t think anyone here would have the ego to think what they say makes a difference to the band, we’re talking crap about a band, like we do on other bands forums most likely while sitting on the bus)

 

 

This isn't like the days of old where you have to be sweatin' over a desktop wringing your hands about rasp. Pretty easy to keep a tab open on your phone  . 

 

[Modano09]

30 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

Where would we lessers be without your weight of judgement upon us and this thread. 

Thank you for your points, your points are very important to us, your points are the next points we will respond to, please return when this thread hits 100 pages, thank you. 

 

(It’s a thread about the possibility of new music and what the band could and do sound like, I don’t think anyone here would have the ego to think what they say makes a difference to the band, we’re talking crap about a band, like we do on other bands forums most likely while sitting on the bus)

 

 

It's not that people think they have a say, it's that they think they should have a say, I think. I don't know, people seem to think if they personally want someone in the band that any legitimate reasons why they're not shouldn't count. Like, Alder's an obnoxious liability that the people in the band know enough to believe is an obnoxious liability but they shouldn't care about that because STEVEN SHOULD BE IN THE BAND!

[The Holographic Universe]

14 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

They were scabs

Those guys were in Guns N‘ Roses. That name means something and no “scabs” were ever in GNR. The people Alder plays music with are closer to “scabs”. 

[DeadSlash]

5 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

you're right! 

Izzy sucks 

and adler more 

 

fortus, melissa and frankie bear will go down in history as way better 

now where's my VIP ticket to meet Dizzy Reed?!!! 

Pointing out that Izzy flaked or that Adler has demons is not a compliment or endorsement to Fortus, Melissa or Frank.  That is a nonsensical connection that you are making and projecting onto a pretty reasonable point, because you can't argue that point.

 

 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

5 hours ago, Modano09 said:

It's not that people think they have a say, it's that they think they should have a say, I think. I don't know, people seem to think if they personally want someone in the band that any legitimate reasons why they're not shouldn't count. Like, Alder's an obnoxious liability that the people in the band know enough to believe is an obnoxious liability but they shouldn't care about that because STEVEN SHOULD BE IN THE BAND!

you stutter? thats how it reads sorry if you're getting a cut please offer it to me..i mentioned before i wanted to meet dizzy reed but with you maybe i could contribute my coolness so that you're awkwardness on defending something so nerdy becomes cool ... im not sure if that made sense but happy to help out --- mr 9 hockey - we can hit the ice too im capable in that department 

Edited July 19, 2019 by double talkin jive mfkr

[GNRfan2008]

8 hours ago, Modano09 said:

I'm very skeptical that Izzy would sign up for years of world touring. I think his history suggests he wouldn't, but we don't know that was the reason. For me, it's a simple as he cashed out his GNR chips when he wanted to be bought out and leave the band so why should be profit again and be paid the same as the people who didn't? 

Because this tour earning $600 million would not happen at all without the music that made this band popular in the first place. Izzy played a huge part in creating the songs.