Rovim

I'm not trying to compare the quality ot Chinese as an album to what has been leaked and released since then. the point I think is that 1 Chinese song doesn't represent the overall style of Chinese era well cause it's varied in style so maybe if we had the full second half of Chinese, you wouldn't think it was as good but it's just another part of this 1 big project which was the double album origianlly. Axl doesn't seem to release them by any particular order, just maybe that he might think some go well together as a unit

every genre has its time which changes the perception of it in music. something else was coming which at least sounded newer, more efficiant type of rock which was the reflection of the generation at the time, regardless of Gn'R but Gn'R were still considered cool by their many fans around the globe, but they lost Slash and that was essential to most to really consider it Gn'R and when the band was over, something else filled that space, but I believe there was always demand for more Gn'R records and live performances with Axl and Slash in any lineup.

which he was sometimes, erratic cause he was younger and more out of control. part of what made Gn'R legendary.

seeing Slash live for the first time and listening to him play at the Gn'R show I went to this year, then the Monsters leak followed closely by The General release.

I was a little drunk yesterday, but after reading this post again, I think it's the best acuurate educational guess as to how it really kinda was. I learn a lot from reading post like these. Great post.

Axl and Slash has both kinda contradicted themselves with various statement and just their actions and what they did musically or at least pushed for musically. Like Slash said he would have done whatever Axl wanted in his book industrial, whatever but expressing that he didn't want to do anymore steph ballads and Axl saying that it was Slash that prevented him from doing a more AFD like material. I'm not sure about that either, cause Axl does seem to like his piano driven tunes as well and Slash not so much. I guess maybe they could have found a middle ground if they were more willing to compromise musically without viewing one another as an obstacle to what they really wanted to do, but I still believe there wasn't a foundation they really felt comfotable with like it was with AFD. The making of UYI was tough enough it seems, so I'm not surprised there was conflict after that and they failed to produce another album together.

1 and 3 would be great

Axl made that comment about making 5 Appetits and living like The Stones. granted, it was just one comment and I don't know exactly what 5 AFD meant to Axl at the time, but to me it could mean that maybe he wasn't against not changing the Gn'R formula. I don't think Gn'R needed to evolve to still be very popular, even if I personally prefer in the case of Gn'R some kind of evolution, more like Queen. Basically what Axl said he wanted, but it wasn't worth risking what they had for imo, and Axl ended up not having someone like Slash to provide the base of the sound of Gn'R after Izzy left so it ended up being 1 album that lacked a big part of the Gn'R sound, but like I said before, they both were kind of fighting for control and not really on the same page anyway, like rope pulling so maybe the best thing to do was to agree to take a break and come back to it later which never really happened.

it seems a lot of things are beyond you

I think that both Axl and Slash handled it terribly and I suspect that both of them thought they knew best when it came to what the right approach was for Gn'R to go forward. the whole "it was all Axl's fault" is a myth imho, but Axl did push on Slash and the rest of the band shit they never really were onboard with and he even talked about how November Rain and Estranged came to be: it was Axl forcing Slash and Duff and work on these elaborate tunes, so even if that was the right choice for Gn'R as a whole commercially speaking and also maybe artistically, depending on what you think about these tunes, was it right way to go about it? or bringing in Zakk Wyld and Paul Huge? there was a lack of respect between Axl and Slash and that usually leads to a strain on the relationship between band members. I believe there were many reasons for why it didn't work out, one of them was Izzy not being there anymore, and Axl not really sure how to make the album he wanted to make without it repeating the same thing they did in the past where the rest of the band wasn't really interested in following into battle artistically speaking.

I like both of the new albums but they both feel like a first pancake. Not really a homerun. Maybe next time it would be more inspired. You never know with the Peppers, but I'm glad we got so much new material from them, even if I prefer the 2 released albums with Josh and the unreleased one with him to the 2 latest releases.

my guess is that Axl was talking more about Slash not willing to be in the studio and focusing on what's the right songs or the right album for Gn'R and try everything under the sun just so it would be good enough for Axl. Slash's top priority seems to always be playing live on stage and the approach he prefers seems to be to work quick inthe studio. Axl is the opposite in many ways, just look at the process of making Chinese. so even though Slash is one of the most hard working musicians in rock, I can see how Axl viewed it as lazy of Slash to not agree to Axl's approach of "whatever it takes" in the studio. Slash's focus was never that. The album more of a means to an end (the live show) where for Axl it always has to be a grand musical statement or at least that's how it looks like to me at times. releasing stand alone singles is different compared to a complete album. (SFTD cover, OMG, and the NITL singles don't have the weight of Chinese)

a lot of music fans, when they really like a band in a certain genre, from a certain time, don't just move on from that band simply cause the next new movement (even if it's great) comes along, even if what they like is not considered cool anymore, they're still fans. when a great band finds a large fanbase it takes a lot for them to lose interest in many cases.

what is your point? this is why I gave Iron Maiden as an example of a band that survived the Blaze era, with fans still supporting the band and then, after that tough few years without Dicky, they released Brave New World, which I think is a great album and good a great reception. Gn'R could have done the same thing with Slash after taking a break from each other and coming back with a strong release, say in 1999. Just to be clear, I think Axl was too angry after Slash left to do that, but it wasn't an external problem of the public just not being interested in old Gn'R, it was that old Gn'R didn't exist anymore. if you can't keep the band together, or key members of the band, you've got nothing, but just as an example, if Axl and Slash found a way to work shit out through Duff or some shit in like 1997-1998, and agree on a new lineup that still included Axl and Slash, I think they could have made another great album or at least good enough for the fans to still feel like the band was alive. Slash had the inital Fall To Pieces ideas for example, Axl liked some of the Slash sessions from 1994, 1996 or whatever and also Axl said he thought they were capable of making another Gn'R album, but Slash "didn't want to work that hard" which I feel was more complicated than that, he didn't seem to agree with Axl's approach anymore. bottom line is I believe there was no need to be relevant for Gn'R to keep being a success. Some bands in the hard rock/metal genre don't need to do that, they just need to continue to churn out pretty good to great albums every few years with enough elements of their classic sound which is why I gave AC/DC as an example, and even Metallica which released Load and Reload and sold a lot of copies with much of their trash metal sound absent from these records.

yup and just to add to that, even if you take a band like Iron Maiden who lost Dickinson and just kept it moving along or bands who lost direction and tried to hop on the trends of the time like Metallica, and released unpopular albums like St. Anger, they kinda derived their ability to still keep the interest of their fans just by providing new shit to consume. I think Axl really cared about making sure the quality was consistent and that maybe also it was about proving that he could still be relevant and just as good without Slash so he zoomed in on the details of what it meant to keep Gn'R going and ironically went against the natural law of limited attention span when everyone else got a product to present when Gn'R just one day vanished from the face of the earth or at least that was how it maybe felt. it's pretty cool to be that dedicated imho and to not give a shit about time when you have a goal in mind that you believe in, but it did come with the a price imo. It's not like Axl didn't want Chinese to be a huge commercial success. They all cared about that from the start. it's like in the end they got paid when they provided most fans what they always wanted which is Axl and Slash, but 20 years of nothing but one product was as I see it the cost of Axl kinda turning its back on even considering a more organic approach and weird concepts like deadlines.

agreed. I think some people forget how many hardcore Gn'R fans around the world were dedicated fans. The rise of bands line Nirvana, Soundgarden, etc and a shift back to pop is not something millions of fans around the world was going to stop them from still being interested in Gn'R had they still provided them more to be attached to when it comes to great original material. all they had to do to maintain success was to keep it going and there were enough markets to make a lot of money and sustain it but Axl went into a process which demanded him to not be present enough and without Slash and only 1 album that was "late" to arrive, it wasn't enough. just a lot of words to say that I think it's a misconception to think Gn'R would have been rejected as something too old to be relevant. It could have been like AC/DC only more varied if enough classic band members were on the same page. Maybe just Axl and Slash could have done it with Duff and some other players. AFD and UYI meant a lot to enough people that it could have been a continual success and I believe the reception to the NITL tours have proved how much people never stopped to care and discover Gn'R, some just forgot about it and moved on cause there was nothing new to latch onto which I think is understandable.

Axl tickling Slash on stage while he was playing at one of the NITL shows Dave Mustaine (from the band Megadeth, if you're not familiar) somehow finding a way to casually walk up stage, mingle a little with the band members of Gn'R in one of the 80's live shows, Izzy cracking a smile, clearly enjoying that moment and Axl commenting on it at the end of the song they were playing "long live Megadeth".

eh... I like Richard, I really like him with Slash but for me, this isn't great. It's fine, but it just doesn't have the depth of playing that I appreciate in solos in that style. It's not like one big connected melody with twists and turns for example, which is just what I prefer personally. Every player is different, but since this is a Gn'R forum, if you take a great Slash solo and pick it apart, it's like a song within a song where every note counts even when he's playing at a high speed. With Richard here, it just sounds like a collection of licks that aren't as musical as something which never loses direction. Still, a very talented player, I just never got the same feeling that I got from Slash, Robin, or Bucket for example where it seems like they have something more unique to say with their lead playing. I'm still a fan though and I don't mean to shit on his playing but there is something too orderly about it for my taste, if that makes sense.

what's the harm in speculating, though? for me it does serve the purpose of trying to understand why things have ended up the way they did with Gn'R, but if you're not interested in that sort of shit, I can understand why it doesn't have value for you. in general, I think at the very least "what if" is a good spark for the imagination so you can learn what to do or not to do in a possible next situation in your life. Just my opinion.

what if Axl didn't take himself too seriously and was confident enough as an artist to know when to step back, let go, and pull the trigger on a release but that's like wishing he was someone else I guess also what if Axl was better at forgiving people that were close to him for being human and making mistakes or just not agreeing with his approach. I'm specifically talking about Slash here as an example. nothing was worth the 20 years of Axl and Slash not having access to their perfect musical chemistry they had, especially when they were still closer to their peak, but I don't believe they were ever really on the same page musically. It wasn't like AC/DC or Queen when the intention of all the band members who had control was more or less the same and they shared a collective goal. The only time it was that way for Gn'R was when they were making AFD and even then Axl was already working on November Rain which wasn't really Slash's thing it seems.

yes, Monsters leaked

no

it doesn't apply to just the action of writing Ambidexterity - Wikipedia

maybe so Kiss fans will understand that the intention is not to completely put an end to the whole... thing, whatever you want to call it (the hologram future of Kiss) so the fans wouldn't define the band as totally over, just a guess.