So whadya think of that L.A. show??

[Jordan Rose]

The silly people who've been saying he sounds amazing at the shows and shouldn't be judged on Youtube videos must have had a shock to hear the soundboard vocal. If you compare a 2002 soundboard with a decent audience recording of the same show there's a stark difference. The soundboard is what you'd hear if you were stood next to him: it's what's actually coming out of his mouth. What's coming out of the PA is his voice with a hell of a lot of amplification and almost certainly a little pro tools salt and pepper. I'm not talking about pitch correction or anything specific but these days there's hardly anyone who doesn't get a little help to just round their sound out and fill it out a bit and if there's anyone who needs it it's Axl whilst he's taking it easy.

It's clearly his choice to sing the way he is at the moment. He chose to sing clean in 2002 and I can only imagine the huge backlash was what caused him to bring some major rasp back starting at Hammerstein and going right through 2007. 2009 started off rocky as fuck but for whatever reason, maybe being inspired by the album's release and wanting to nail it live he went out of his way to sound like he did in 91-93 again. You'd think he'd be more keen to sing that way for America than use his rough voice round Europe, Japan and Canada again but hey.

[Gagarin]

The silly people who've been saying he sounds amazing at the shows and shouldn't be judged on Youtube videos must have had a shock to hear the soundboard vocal. If you compare a 2002 soundboard with a decent audience recording of the same show there's a stark difference. The soundboard is what you'd hear if you were stood next to him: it's what's actually coming out of his mouth. What's coming out of the PA is his voice with a hell of a lot of amplification and almost certainly a little pro tools salt and pepper. I'm not talking about pitch correction or anything specific but these days there's hardly anyone who doesn't get a little help to just round their sound out and fill it out a bit and if there's anyone who needs it it's Axl whilst he's taking it easy.

It's clearly his choice to sing the way he is at the moment. He chose to sing clean in 2002 and I can only imagine the huge backlash was what caused him to bring some major rasp back starting at Hammerstein and going right through 2007. 2009 started off rocky as fuck but for whatever reason, maybe being inspired by the album's release and wanting to nail it live he went out of his way to sound like he did in 91-93 again. You'd think he'd be more keen to sing that way for America than use his rough voice round Europe, Japan and Canada again but hey.

Uh, no, the soundboard would also have 'ProTools salt and pepper'.

[laffy]

Can anyone in seriousness not agree with Jordan Rose's posts?

[ChristianGNR]

There's no protools at all.

You guys are talking about 2010 as great year, but Axl is not THAT good in Reading soundboard also.

If you listen to some audience recordings, Sweet Child was nowhere as great as it was in 2006.

His voice is Ok now, it was a LITTLE better (remember, not THAT BETTER) in 2010 and it was fucking amazing in the end of 2006.

[Jordan Rose]

Chris and Gagarin r.e. Protools: I wont pretend I know stuff I don't and if you say any vocal enhancement used would also be recorded on the soundboard stuff we get whether stolen or official then i'll defer to you.

But I think the point I was trying to make still stands, even assuming no pro tools. Listen to the soundboard of Madagascar from Cleveland 2002: it's a very good vocal but still thin, reedy and a little weak and i'd say completely dry i.e. no enhancements. Then listen to what someone recorded coming out of the speakers: it sounds comparatively powerful, rich and booming and I think that's down to nothing more than amplification.

If Axl is singing a really weak, thin, wobbly Jungle like at Rio this year and frankly many other shows this year, it sounds absolutely terrible listening to the dry vocal on a soundboard. But you can bet that it sounds a hell of a lot better blasted stupidly loud through a PA, no?

For what it's worth, I was hanging out with Jesse Malin at a show in late 2002 (Jesse is the DGen singer, friend of Tommy, had Tommy support him in 2004 etc) and his sound guy at the time had worked on the Guns Euro tour that summer and said the reason Axl sucked so hard at the VMAs was because the pro tools rig was still in London.

Going even more off topic here but i've always found it interesting how beautiful, rich, smooth and deep Axl's vocals were on Madagascar at Rio 2001. I suppose it was partly due to him having basically completely rested his voice for 7 years but I don't understand why he never quite sounded that way again from Tacoma 2002 onwards. On all those 2002 soundboards we have Madagscar sounds comparatively thin and weak and full of effort compared to the rich and effortless Rio vocal.

[Jordan Rose]

There's no protools at all.

You guys are talking about 2010 as great year, but Axl is not THAT good in Reading soundboard also.

If you listen to some audience recordings, Sweet Child was nowhere as great as it was in 2006.

His voice is Ok now, it was a LITTLE better (remember, not THAT BETTER) in 2010 and it was fucking amazing in the end of 2006.

It was either Osaka or Tokyo 2002 when Axl himself asked his soundguy to turn down whatever EQ etc he had on. The Estranged from Rio this year had that probably auto-tune blip. I'm not saying for a second that Axl's all smoke and mirrors but I think you'd be wrong to guess he never ever gets the help that the vast majority of ageing (and often young) singers get these days.

As far as the Reading pro-shot goes, you're kinda proving my point. Reading sounded shit hot stood there at the festival about a mile back from the stage. None of the 15+ shows i've been to since 2002 have sounded even slightly weak or bad at all until i've listened to the soundboard/webcast/tv and thought 'wtf?'

[Apollo]

I love the mickey mouse voice.

Some ridiculous comments in here. Why do non fans post? Maybe a bit of a concentrated effort from a group from another forum? It's just weird.

[Georgy Zhukov]

It was a great concert. Axl sounded amazing the band was great.

[DarkFairy81]

It was very cool, plan on watching the other stream too, as I have the day off/night shift the next day =) Would be awesome to see more of these

[Voodoochild]

Jordan, your point was already adressed:

In the iClips videos something is wrong with the sound mix. I hope they can fix it before Las Vegas. Axl uses his voice as an instrument in an orchestra and in the iClips it is taken out of the context it belongs to.

The same goes with the backing or "harmony" singing of the band members : ). They should somehow make it sound like it does for the audience in front of them.

I guess they had the same problem in Rio. In the fan made YouTube videos Axl sounds as good as always. Live he and the rest of the band sound even 10 x better.

Axl does not normally sound just good live, he really sounds amazing, you have to go to the shows to believe it.

Many have commented that the volume levels are a bit too high in these US shows. In Europe 2010 they were perfect: no need for ear plugs and no ringing in the ears.

Favorite moment in the LA show for me at the moment: the new little intro singing before November Rain. I love little surprises and there is something cute about it.

THIS 100%!

There's definitely something off with the mix, and it's giving an inaccurate representation of what it would sound like if you were in the audience. I would imagine to improve things, you would need someone doing a broadcast mix, live and on the fly, as using any of the other (F.O.H./various monitors etc) will give funky results due to the dynamics of what they are trying to achieve in the environments they are in, being different. I am not sure with something like this what the GnR production team would be providing the broadcaster with, or if there is the desire or resources to produce something better.

That being said, let's not look a gift horse in the mouth here - we are getting live-streamed pro-shot footage and audio for a relative pittance - from a band that hasn't provided this kinda thing before off their own backs. It should be welcomed, applauded and not criticised for not being perfect.

It's the same as some guitars: they sounded indeed thin in comparison to the audience recording because there was a much richer and fatter sound due to proper equalization.

One good example of how the soundboard streaming sounded weird is how some solos hadn't proper volume levels a lot of times, or how the backing vocals and backing tracks (like MLK quotes on Madagascar) weren't right. Its obviously because the direct audio feed wasn't properly treated to a broadcast.

[SR_GR]

If it is so easy to sound great with the help of all kinds of technical tools, how come nobody else sounds as good as Axl?

There are people who have studied mixing and recording at university for 7 years and worked in the field for 40 years,

some of these guys should know what to do to improve the quality of the broadcasted sound. I think it is great that they trying something new.

They also provide the real fans something new to watch and listen. But they give the casual listener an impression of the band which is in some parts so far from the absolute bliss of seeing them live.

I did some googling and found this. It is a bit off the topic, but quite interesting. If you like classical music this e.concerthouse.com is providing free videos.

They seem to be helping (for free with the help of donations) classical orchestras to stream their free of charge concerts.

They have some concerts on their pages http://www.e-concerthouse.com/en/videos/tfo/269-tfo-22-10

[GiveNuseR]

D.., his voice is definitely not close to as bad as in 2002!!! He couldn't even do the lines in WTTJ back then without stopping in the middle of words due to being out of breath. Now he does fine. It's oddly just certain songs he has the whole mickey mouse voice people are talking about. In some even when he has the high voice it's not THAT bad though. Either way I'm just glad others are admitting some of this because with so many saying his voice is "perfect" in show after show i thought I was imagining things at the Nshville one that his voice sometimes sounded bad. heck even when he talked conversation it sounded weird and was cracking. But it sounded perfect on most songs.

[Freddie Mercury's Ghost]

After watching this show, it's the first time I've ever been able to say "Axl looks old".

He can still go through the motions and hit the notes, but not without great effort and a horribly boring stage presence.

Not his fault, he just can't run around like he did 20 years ago.

He was great in Hamilton, but when you compare proshot videos from 2011 to proshot videos from back in the day, he's not at the same level he was back then.

Again, not dissing him, just saying that when he set the bar so high for physical performances back in the day, it's hard for him to live up to that now.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Freddie Mercury's Ghost

[batman007]

After watching this show, it's the first time I've ever been able to say "Axl looks old".

He can still go through the motions and hit the notes, but not without great effort and a horribly boring stage presence.

Not his fault, he just can't run around like he did 20 years ago.

He was great in Hamilton, but when you compare proshot videos from 2011 to proshot videos from back in the day, he's not at the same level he was back then.

Again, not dissing him, just saying that when he set the bar so high for physical performances back in the day, it's hard for him to live up to that now.

Who can though? I think Axl is like a fine wine.

[Guest gunns5]

He isn't running around the stage as much as he did 2 or even 1 year ago however the setlists are quiet long so it's not entirely his age/fitness

[RussTCB]

Jordan, your point was already adressed:

In the iClips videos something is wrong with the sound mix. I hope they can fix it before Las Vegas. Axl uses his voice as an instrument in an orchestra and in the iClips it is taken out of the context it belongs to.

The same goes with the backing or "harmony" singing of the band members : ). They should somehow make it sound like it does for the audience in front of them.

I guess they had the same problem in Rio. In the fan made YouTube videos Axl sounds as good as always. Live he and the rest of the band sound even 10 x better.

Axl does not normally sound just good live, he really sounds amazing, you have to go to the shows to believe it.

Many have commented that the volume levels are a bit too high in these US shows. In Europe 2010 they were perfect: no need for ear plugs and no ringing in the ears.

Favorite moment in the LA show for me at the moment: the new little intro singing before November Rain. I love little surprises and there is something cute about it.

THIS 100%!

There's definitely something off with the mix, and it's giving an inaccurate representation of what it would sound like if you were in the audience. I would imagine to improve things, you would need someone doing a broadcast mix, live and on the fly, as using any of the other (F.O.H./various monitors etc) will give funky results due to the dynamics of what they are trying to achieve in the environments they are in, being different. I am not sure with something like this what the GnR production team would be providing the broadcaster with, or if there is the desire or resources to produce something better.

That being said, let's not look a gift horse in the mouth here - we are getting live-streamed pro-shot footage and audio for a relative pittance - from a band that hasn't provided this kinda thing before off their own backs. It should be welcomed, applauded and not criticised for not being perfect.

It's the same as some guitars: they sounded indeed thin in comparison to the audience recording because there was a much richer and fatter sound due to proper equalization.

One good example of how the soundboard streaming sounded weird is how some solos hadn't proper volume levels a lot of times, or how the backing vocals and backing tracks (like MLK quotes on Madagascar) weren't right. Its obviously because the direct audio feed wasn't properly treated to a broadcast.

This.

People saying Axl is using some sort of vocal tools live are just plain wrong. Same people that go on about how bad he sounds. So which is it? He sounds awful or he's using vocal tools to sound as good as he does? In the end it's a clear cut case of "same old same old": the same people looking for something....anything to bitch about.

[RussTCB]

I love the mickey mouse voice.

Some ridiculous comments in here. Why do non fans post? Maybe a bit of a concentrated effort from a group from another forum? It's just weird.

I wouldn't say I "love" the high voice, but I understand it.

Dude is 49 years old, putting on 3 hours shows and signing songs he originally sang 25 years ago in the same key they were written in. If the guy wants to nail a bunch of the show and "phone in" other songs in order to save his voice for the rest of the show and in turn the whole tour, I'll take it.

[Cruel Intentions]

I haven't watched/listened to the full concert yet, but from what I've seen: Jungle was great, hated the backing vocals they added to CD. Axl fucked up the lyrics in Civil War and Estranged, which are my two all-time favorite GNR songs, and that kinda ruined them for me.

I've said this a million times - I don't mind the "Mickey Mouse voice" nearly as much as some other people do. Axl can definitely still sing and bring the rasp, I saw it first hand a month ago. What KILLS me, though, is him fucking up the lyrics to songs. I hate that much more than anything else. It's just a pet peeve, and you can't even really blame it entirely on 2011 Axl since he's always been that way.

I'm biased because I was at the East Rutherford, NJ show, but I still think that was one of the best performances I've heard from Axl on this tour. He really didn't screw up many lyrics with the exception of Sorry and Better and I could REALLY hear a lot more rasp in his voice from start to finish. But again, of course I'm going to be biased and say that since I was at the show lol.

[D..]

For me it's hard to accept Axl is getting old. I think part of that is greatly due to Youtube and the concept of a video where a human being doesn't age, he's imortalized in a way. I watch old GNR shows on a weekly basis, so in my mind, the 30 year old Axl can't be dead. At last year shows, even if Axl didn't run as much as he did in the 90's, his voice made up for it, it was like "this is definitely Axl on stage, okay he is older but he still kicks ass".

But it's painful to compare Axl from 2011 to 2010, painful to accept the fact he's aging, and losing his voice, moves, etc. If there's one person that made believe you could push the limits of a human being, it's definitely Axl, there is no other performer in rock history that spread so much energy.

Maybe I wouldn't mind this much if Axl renewed himself. I mean, maybe the huge problem I have with the shows from 2011 is that Axl tries way too hard to be like his 90's self, and fails. Why bring back Civil war and Estranged when he MUST defend There was a time, Prostitute, Catcher, OMG, and the others? The voice he has now would suit these songs more, and it seems to me he trained to sing those songs. His old days are gone but it's not a bad thing, he put up PERFECT albums in the 80's and 90's, I'm not gonna blame him if he can't pull off Civil war or Coma anymore, I don't care about this.

I love the 09 asian tour because Axl tried new stuff, it was unperfect but damn, seeing him try to do Prostitute, TWAT, basically almost all of Chinese was DAMN amazing. I'd love to see him to that and look at the future and not the past... maybe throw in some old surprises here and there, if he can sing those songs, but it's just painful to me to see Axl being unable to beat his 90 self. Don't know if I'm clear...

But yes, Axl may have some heart problems or articulations or voice problems, we don't know... I'll always respect him like no one else even if he becomes bold, deaf, blind, can't sing, in a wheelchair... but as long as he can perform, I'd like to see him try new stuff, and fuck the mainstream greatest hits audience.

[timoteo]

people bitch about the setlist, but honestly, when you're there.. seeing it live, you don't give a shit

[laffy]

Civil war and estranged or long, but why should they be too difficult for Axl? I feel like they should be among the easier songs to sing.

[Gagarin]

Jordan, your point was already adressed:

In the iClips videos something is wrong with the sound mix. I hope they can fix it before Las Vegas. Axl uses his voice as an instrument in an orchestra and in the iClips it is taken out of the context it belongs to.

The same goes with the backing or "harmony" singing of the band members : ). They should somehow make it sound like it does for the audience in front of them.

I guess they had the same problem in Rio. In the fan made YouTube videos Axl sounds as good as always. Live he and the rest of the band sound even 10 x better.

Axl does not normally sound just good live, he really sounds amazing, you have to go to the shows to believe it.

Many have commented that the volume levels are a bit too high in these US shows. In Europe 2010 they were perfect: no need for ear plugs and no ringing in the ears.

Favorite moment in the LA show for me at the moment: the new little intro singing before November Rain. I love little surprises and there is something cute about it.

THIS 100%!

There's definitely something off with the mix, and it's giving an inaccurate representation of what it would sound like if you were in the audience. I would imagine to improve things, you would need someone doing a broadcast mix, live and on the fly, as using any of the other (F.O.H./various monitors etc) will give funky results due to the dynamics of what they are trying to achieve in the environments they are in, being different. I am not sure with something like this what the GnR production team would be providing the broadcaster with, or if there is the desire or resources to produce something better.

That being said, let's not look a gift horse in the mouth here - we are getting live-streamed pro-shot footage and audio for a relative pittance - from a band that hasn't provided this kinda thing before off their own backs. It should be welcomed, applauded and not criticised for not being perfect.

It's the same as some guitars: they sounded indeed thin in comparison to the audience recording because there was a much richer and fatter sound due to proper equalization.

One good example of how the soundboard streaming sounded weird is how some solos hadn't proper volume levels a lot of times, or how the backing vocals and backing tracks (like MLK quotes on Madagascar) weren't right. Its obviously because the direct audio feed wasn't properly treated to a broadcast.

This.

People saying Axl is using some sort of vocal tools live are just plain wrong. Same people that go on about how bad he sounds. So which is it? He sounds awful or he's using vocal tools to sound as good as he does? In the end it's a clear cut case of "same old same old": the same people looking for something....anything to bitch about.

This, BUT...

ProTools IS THERE. They even do a 'ProTools' check during the linecheck (did anyone record that?).

Anyway, whatever it's used for...

But yeah, the soundboard sounds shitty and thin because it's not being mixed - it's just a static mix from the board, not EQed right.

And he's not a spring chicken anymore.

[bumblecool]

Estranged and Civil are requested by many fans.

I think it's cool when a band acept fans requests...

[Flayer]

people bitch about the setlist, but honestly, when you're there.. seeing it live, you don't give a shit

+1

[Estranged Reality]

people were claiming in this thread or another that as axl ages, he's going to have trouble hitting the higher notes and singing songs like "rocket queen." i totally disagree. i think rocket queen, nightrain, and other songs where he's required to scream a lot sound great nowadays. it's the songs that require lower vocals and rasp -- "you could be mine," "mr. brownstone," etc. -- that seem to be suffering.

axl in many ways has almost reverted to how he sounded around 1986 or so, when he wasn't as raspy but screamed really high-pitched. when you play "nice boys" from last year, it sounds a lot like axl from the '80s. but i think as time progressed into the early '90s, he started singing primarily in a lower register and with a hoarse rasp, and it just tore up his vocal chords.

i think as time goes on we're gonna hear him singing more and more in a higher register on songs, aka the "mickey mouse" effect. a lot of the songs on chinese democracy ("if the world," "madagascar," "better," "rhiad," "scraped") feature higher register vocals for lengthy periods of the track.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Estranged Reality