Vincent Vega Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) It was also based on Yojimbo.Licence to Kill delivered. It broke the rules. Bond films tend to ignore the real world problems and dissolve into fantasy. LTK gave us a villain who can be based on any Drug Cartel leader past and present. To see Bond take out Sanchez and his entire organization is satisfying.Live and Let Die touched on some of the same issues. Black gangs and black gangsters trafficking in Heroin, trying to outdo the Mafia and take over, were a bigtime reality in 1973, Nicky Barnes and the like. As was Heroin addiction, almost an epidemic. Kanaga is in some ways a precursor to Sanchez: An all powerful drug lord who basically has everyone working for him.Also, where Sanchez is pretty much utterly despicable, Kanaga is more realistic in that he is actually rather likable despite being a villain. The best villains are ones that you actually find yourself believing are actually sort of likable. Sanchez is just a knock off of Tony Montana, made more ruthless and less likable.A random thought, but Connery's films are the only straight string of Bond films that aren't Bond mixed with another series or another genre--Live and Let Die: Bond meets BlaxploitationMan With the Golden Gun: Bond meets Kung Fu filmsMoonraker: Bond meets Star WarsA View to a Kill: Bond meets mid 80s actionLicense to Kill: Bond meets Scarface, '80s cop/drug films.Brosnan's films: Bond meets earlier versions of himselfCraig's films: Bond meets Jason BourneEvery actor's films besides Connery's injected either another genre or another franchise into Bond. Edited April 6, 2013 by Vincent Vega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 It was also based on Yojimbo.Licence to Kill delivered. It broke the rules. Bond films tend to ignore the real world problems and dissolve into fantasy. LTK gave us a villain who can be based on any Drug Cartel leader past and present. To see Bond take out Sanchez and his entire organization is satisfying.Live and Let Die touched on some of the same issues. Black gangs and black gangsters trafficking in Heroin, trying to outdo the Mafia and take over, were a bigtime reality in 1973, Nicky Barnes and the like. As was Heroin addiction, almost an epidemic. Kanaga is in some ways a precursor to Sanchez: An all powerful drug lord who basically has everyone working for him.Also, where Sanchez is pretty much utterly despicable, Kanaga is more realistic in that he is actually rather likable despite being a villain. The best villains are ones that you actually find yourself believing are actually sort of likable. Sanchez is just a knock off of Tony Montana, made more ruthless and less likable.While the tone of both films is (obviously) different, I agree. Both films have down to earth plots. As much as I like the elaborate Bond plots, it's nice every once in a while when a LALD, LTK, or Skyfall comes along with a more basic plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) That's the thing, the film is a bit of a mess when it comes to Kanaga plotting to flood the streets with heroin. They were probably thinking what they've done wrong with Live and Let Die in LTK and just make it a film where Bond goes after Sanchez purely on vengeance rather than a simple assignment. Edit: Kanaga is likable? Maybe as Mr. Big and his stereotypical behavior. But not likable at all. Sanchez is something you can't help but admire. Loyalty over money. Only Bond put it in his head that he is being betrayed when in reality his men stayed loyal to the end. Edited April 6, 2013 by Georgy Zhukov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) That's the thing, the film is a bit of a mess when it comes to Kanaga plotting to flood the streets with heroin. They were probably thinking what they've done wrong with Live and Let Die in LTK and just make it a film where Bond goes after Sanchez purely on vengeance rather than a simple assignment. Edit: Kanaga is likable? Maybe as Mr. Big and his stereotypical behavior. But not likable at all. Sanchez is something you can't help but admire. Loyalty over money. Only Bond put it in his head that he is being betrayed when in reality his men stayed loyal to the end.It's more straight forward though. Bond gets a bad guy simply because he's bad and he's going to fuck some shit up. Pretty much what a spy's job is. LTK is basically what Diamonds are Forever was supposed to be. In a way, it's a spiritual sequel to On Her Majesties' Secret Service. Bond isn't going after Sanchez as much because of what he did to Felix, more what he did to Della. It's basically what a more "in line" sequel to OMSS would've been.I think Kanaga is likable in some ways, yes. Charming. And though ruthless, he has a fondness for Solitaire in a way. Edited April 6, 2013 by Vincent Vega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Yeah, I guess he was fond of her in a sexual predator kind of way. Once he finds not more use for her Tarot Reading he was going to rape her.There you go again, over analyzing. It was basically a new thing they were trying that turned out unsuccessful. But over time it became one of the more liked Bond films. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Yeah, I guess he was fond of her in a sexual predator kind of way. Once he finds not more use for her Tarot Reading he was going to rape her.There you go again, over analyzing. It was basically a new thing they were trying that turned out unsuccessful. But over time it became one of the more liked Bond films.He didn't try to rape her...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 He said he was going to take her virginity. She didn't seem like she had a say in it. That would have been rape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 He said he was going to take her virginity. She didn't seem like she had a say in it. That would have been rape.Seems she was quite in cahoots with him until Bond showed up and seduced her. The only reason she had any liking for Bond to begin with was because the cards showed them to be lovers, and then he manipulated the deck in his favor later. She seemed to be totally on Kanaga's side until Bond came in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Yeah, she worked for him more or less against her will. I don't remember the total story but it seemed like her mother also worked with Kanaga and somehow she was disposed of. Whatever the reason, just because you see her "in cahoots" with Kanaga doesn't mean she is on his side. Just that she has little choice.The cards tell her that she and Bond were to become lovers, that is true. Bond felt he tricked her into sleeping with him but the cards multiple times showed it was inevitable. And she was perfectly fine with leaving Kanaga. Not sure why he kept her around afterwards. Jealousy perhaps. The film itself didn't make sense.Still liked it though. But LTK was better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 IMO (Flame shields up, awaiting Miser), LALD is one of the most horribly bastardized Fleming adaptations there was, if you want to call it an adaptation. The plot of the novel worked so much better, and some of the big scenes in the book translate to film stunningly, as proven by FYEO and LTK. The heroin thing never did it for me, love the idea of the lost gold in the novel. Not to mention of the best openings for a Bond novel, with the bomb in his hotel room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 I think the worst case of "Bond rape" is definitely Skyfall. I mean, you've got a whole scene explaining Severine was a child prostitute and then five minutes later Bond shows up naked in her shower. Talk about awkward timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 IMO (Flame shields up, awaiting Miser), LALD is one of the most horribly bastardized Fleming adaptations there was, if you want to call it an adaptation. The plot of the novel worked so much better, and some of the big scenes in the book translate to film stunningly, as proven by FYEO and LTK. The heroin thing never did it for me, love the idea of the lost gold in the novel. Not to mention of the best openings for a Bond novel, with the bomb in his hotel room.Why this insistence on novel purism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I think the worst case of "Bond rape" is definitely Skyfall. I mean, you've got a whole scene explaining Severine was a child prostitute and then five minutes later Bond shows up naked in her shower. Talk about awkward timing. Good point. But it is something that every man wants to do. Spend five minutes talking to a girl. Than screw her later. If she lets you like Severnine did.I think the case with Severnine is a special one. She starts playing the act with Bond and then he shatters the barriers and makes her feel vunerable. That is what how he slept with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 This Bond Girl has her own winery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 IMO (Flame shields up, awaiting Miser), LALD is one of the most horribly bastardized Fleming adaptations there was, if you want to call it an adaptation. The plot of the novel worked so much better, and some of the big scenes in the book translate to film stunningly, as proven by FYEO and LTK. The heroin thing never did it for me, love the idea of the lost gold in the novel. Not to mention of the best openings for a Bond novel, with the bomb in his hotel room.Why this insistence on novel purism?And that's what I was waiting for. I never said there's anything wrong with straying from Fleming in the adaptations, but I wasn't a fan of it in LALD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) According to Christopher Lee (Fleming's cousin by marriage), he often discussed the character of Bond with Fleming and from those discussions surmised that if Fleming had lived, he'd have considered BROSNAN to be the closest to his vision overall."In my opinion - and I think I know as much, if not more about James Bond than anyone in the world, particularly about the characters on whom Ian told me Bond was based - Pierce Brosnan was by far the best and the closest to the character," Edited April 6, 2013 by Vincent Vega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 Pierce had everything it takes to be Bond. His films (minus GoldenEye) just didn't reflect it too well.IMO (Flame shields up, awaiting Miser), LALD is one of the most horribly bastardized Fleming adaptations there was, if you want to call it an adaptation. The plot of the novel worked so much better, and some of the big scenes in the book translate to film stunningly, as proven by FYEO and LTK. The heroin thing never did it for me, love the idea of the lost gold in the novel. Not to mention of the best openings for a Bond novel, with the bomb in his hotel room.Why this insistence on novel purism?It works the other way around too. Goldfinger, for example, had a hole-ridden plot in the novel that was improved in the film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 IMO (Flame shields up, awaiting Miser), LALD is one of the most horribly bastardized Fleming adaptations there was, if you want to call it an adaptation. The plot of the novel worked so much better, and some of the big scenes in the book translate to film stunningly, as proven by FYEO and LTK. The heroin thing never did it for me, love the idea of the lost gold in the novel. Not to mention of the best openings for a Bond novel, with the bomb in his hotel room.Why this insistence on novel purism?Well, what are the greatest Bond films?Most would begin with the first four Connerys.Many would say OHMSSA few would say, Casino Royale.What are the Bond adaptations closest to Fleming...OHMSSFirst four ConnerysCasino Royale.There is your answer.You could also mention The Living Daylights.Generally, when the film follows Fleming, either directly (as in adaption), or in spirit, the film is superior for it.The worse sort of Bond films are those that are, the most Un-Fleming...MoonrakerDiamonds Are ForeverDie Another Day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 IMO (Flame shields up, awaiting Miser), LALD is one of the most horribly bastardized Fleming adaptations there was, if you want to call it an adaptation. The plot of the novel worked so much better, and some of the big scenes in the book translate to film stunningly, as proven by FYEO and LTK. The heroin thing never did it for me, love the idea of the lost gold in the novel. Not to mention of the best openings for a Bond novel, with the bomb in his hotel room.Why this insistence on novel purism?Well, what are the greatest Bond films?Most would begin with the first four Connerys.Many would say OHMSSA few would say, Casino Royale.What are the Bond adaptations closest to Fleming...OHMSSFirst four ConnerysCasino Royale.There is your answer.You could also mention The Living Daylights.Generally, when the film follows Fleming, either directly (as in adaption), or in spirit, the film is superior for it.The worse sort of Bond films are those that are, the most Un-Fleming...MoonrakerDiamonds Are ForeverDie Another DayBut that's just your opinion..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Use Your Delusion 1 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 just watched For Your Eyes Only, actually a really really good film imo, the bad? a terrible 80s soundtrack. in my top 10 for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 IMO (Flame shields up, awaiting Miser), LALD is one of the most horribly bastardized Fleming adaptations there was, if you want to call it an adaptation. The plot of the novel worked so much better, and some of the big scenes in the book translate to film stunningly, as proven by FYEO and LTK. The heroin thing never did it for me, love the idea of the lost gold in the novel. Not to mention of the best openings for a Bond novel, with the bomb in his hotel room.Why this insistence on novel purism?Well, what are the greatest Bond films?Most would begin with the first four Connerys.Many would say OHMSSA few would say, Casino Royale.What are the Bond adaptations closest to Fleming...OHMSSFirst four ConnerysCasino Royale.There is your answer.You could also mention The Living Daylights.Generally, when the film follows Fleming, either directly (as in adaption), or in spirit, the film is superior for it.The worse sort of Bond films are those that are, the most Un-Fleming...MoonrakerDiamonds Are ForeverDie Another DayBut that's just your opinion.....It is - and I realise I am making a generalisation here - but if you ask most people what there ''top 10 Bonds are?'', I hasten to bet that the first four Connerys, OHMSS and CR will be on there. (I know you hate the Craig era by the way but most people highly regard CR). Equally, if you have a list of 'top 5 worst?', DAF, Moonraker and DAD will usually be on there. I have seen too many of these lists. Them six are always near the top and those three are always near the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 just watched For Your Eyes Only, actually a really really good film imo, the bad? a terrible 80s soundtrack. in my top 10 for sure.100% with you on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 just watched For Your Eyes Only, actually a really really good film imo, the bad? a terrible 80s soundtrack. in my top 10 for sure.I really don't care for FYEO to be honest. Very bland IMO, no strong villain and boring plot. Not bad, but forgettable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Goldeneye has one of the worst Bond soundtracks ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted April 7, 2013 Author Share Posted April 7, 2013 just watched For Your Eyes Only, actually a really really good film imo, the bad? a terrible 80s soundtrack. in my top 10 for sure.I really don't care for FYEO to be honest. Very bland IMO, no strong villain and boring plot. Not bad, but forgettable.I agree. I think it's highly overrated among die hard Bond fans. I think the soundtrack is actually one of the better things about it. So dated but awesome. And of course, Roger's ice cream line makes the entire film worthwhile.Goldeneye has one of the worst Bond soundtracks ever.Aside from The GoldenEye Overture and Run, Shoot, and Jump which are pretty cool cues - yes, 100%. The producers knew it was bad too when they called in John Altman to score the archives and tank chase scenes.Serra was totally wrong for Bond. His music dragged the pace of the film too. The music during the casino scene should have been cool, Barry-esque Bond music. Instead we get the most depressing cue I've ever heard in my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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