Rumor So GNR Handed Over A New Album in 2010?

[wasted]

The making of the album was well-documented. Go read "Chinese Whispers" on gnrevolution. It's excellent and it paints a VERY clear picture that the entire problem and delay of the release was simply Axl's refusal to record vocals or give any material to the label.

There were never any "finished" records submitted to the label. Period.

Ok, you send me to a sight that disproves you're claim by 2000. C'mon guys help me out!

"I think [Jimmy] Iovine put Roy Thomas Baker in the producer seat, because he didn't think the raw sounds [on the Sean Beavan album] were good enough." (Tommy, Bass Player, 04/09)

Reports therefore suggest that the Sean Beavan album was completed to a presentable degree in early 2000 and delivered to Interscope. Whomever made the judgment call on the album sound (either Tom Whalley or Jimmy Iovine) and enlisted Roy Thomas Baker, effectively pushed back an album Axl appeared to consider "almost done".

[wasted]

You guys act like you know what you're talking about.

"Bob listened to it and said, 'Three songs.' This is after seven years (of songwriting)." (Alice Cooper, King County Journal, 10/15/04)

"I told him basically what you’ve heard. I didn’t tell him “you have 2 ½ songs” and when he sat down, he started saying me that he has finished the record. And I said “Axl, we are not ready to mix this record. This record isn’t ready to be mixed”." (Bob Ezrin, HitChannel, 04/12/12)

"People in the record company had many opinions and they wanted to make the best possible record. Every time that we thought that we had the correct songs, then somebody thought that we could make it better." (Axl, Rock & Pop FM, 01/22/01)

"[Axl] said “I don’t agree with that. We are ready to mix”. And I told him “you have my number, if you change your mind let me know, but I have a dinner party at home now and I had to go”. I left and I haven’t heard from him since." (Bob Ezrin, HitChannel, 04/12/12)

[wasted]

In 99, Axl feels it's almost done so RTB suggests they re-record everything. Great decisions.

This is in 2000 Axl is ready mix. But Ezrin says he only has 3 songs and says it's not ready to go to mix.

There seems to be no push from the label for a release. In fact they seem to just be brining in people to ruin Axl's confidence.

So 2001, Axl tells Zutaut "nobody knows my language".

Edited August 13, 2013 by wasted

[estrangedtwat]

That guy didn't even work for Geffen. If ANYONE from Geffen had gotten their hands on near-complete songs, they'd have released them.

That was just ONE guy, who heard what Axl had been recording and basically concluded what we all did when we finally heard it, that there were maybe 3 good songs out of the bunch. And Axl being the sensitive poetic soul/paranoid freak that he is had a meltdown and decided to "tinker" with it for another decade.

If you read all the way through Chinese Whispers, every producer and record exec basically says the same thing...that for years there were hundreds of hours of instrumentals with NO vocals, and nobody seemed able to convince Axl to lay anything down.

[magisme]

The mental gymnastics people go through to make excuses for Axl are astonishing.

[RussTCB]

The mental gymnastics people go through to make excuses for Axl are astonishing.

It just looks to me like a group of users having a good debate on looking at the situation from several different angles.

[estrangedtwat]

As for Blood in the Water, everyone is going to have the whole song soon anyway, so no need for me to comment.

[Ali]

The mental gymnastics people go through to make excuses for Axl are astonishing.

It just looks to me like a group of users having a good debate on looking at the situation from several different angles.

Agreed. The 2001 interview with Axl is pretty revealing in that even then feedback was given to keep working.

Ali

[wasted]

Virtually all the vocals were done by 2000?

i only got up to 2002, I guess Bucket leaving was a real set back.

But I would go back to 99, 2000, even 2002 records. Thats where the label should have got the record out, not let Ezrin, or even RTB near it.

but yeah its a vast project so who knows.

[wasted]

But it really sounds like theres enough tracks for another record.

But starting a new record and going through that again, does anyone really want to do that?

maybe at the end of the day only those 14 tracks really cut it as GNR.

I sure hope theres CD II and CD III though. It would be awesome.

[downzy]

But why was Zutaut promised a huge bonus if he was able to somehow get the album out by 2001 I believe? Why promise a producer/manager a pay-for-performance fee and then hold up the process? It doesn't make any sense. As Estrangedtwat makes clear, none of the people you referenced actually worked for UMG/Geffen at the time. Whether it was RTB asking to have everything re-recorded (which only held things up by a year or two, since he was out by 2002) or Ezrin pouring cold water on the project in 2004, it was still on Axl to decide when he wanted to hand in the album. I have a hard time believing that the studio was happy to let Axl tinker from 1999-2003 and then in 2004 threaten the release of the Greatest Hits album if he didn't pony up: "Having exceeded all budgeted and approved recording costs by millions of dollars,' the label wrote in a letter dated Feb. 2, 2004, 'it is Mr. Rose's obligation to fund and complete the album, not Geffen's."

Even if you accept the theory that it was ultimately people like RTB and Ezrin who slowed the project up between 1999 and 2004, what explains the four year wait following 2004? I simply don't see how the involvement of two individuals, who's inclusion of the project lasted a year each, can be viewed as the determinative factor for why the album wasn't released earlier. The only common denominator I see is Axl.

Edited August 13, 2013 by downzy

[Spark]

Maybe Axl won't release it because he knows if people hear it they will notice how much his voice has changed since 2000.

& that he can't sing like he did in 2000, & a concert using "those" songs would be an embarrassment to the GNR name.

[wasted]

Its ultimately on Axl, he didnt seem to have the confidence or devil may care thing to just put it out.

But in those two instances. They really were close to closing, Axl was ready to mix. Thats a go! Its like ABC. Always be closing, You dont keep talking after they agree, you whip out the contract.

But I think they got Shacklers n Sorry out Ezrin. So it wasnt all bad. but I think it shook Axl and that had ramifications.

I didnt read past 2002 but Bucket leaves. That tour was a disaster. It really reads like UYI era, accept the riots came before the release.

Bucket leaving really took it to 2004. then they have to tour to establish Ron and Frank. This to me is Axl trying to make it a band. Everything has a knock on effect.

Maybe Axl won't release it because he knows if people hear it they will notice how much his voice has changed since 2000.

& that he can't sing like he did in 2000, & a concert using "those" songs would be an embarrassment to the GNR name.

i think theyll use vocals from 2000. Edited August 13, 2013 by wasted

[Spark]

Its ultimately on Axl, he didnt seem to have the confidence or devil may care thing to just put it out.

But in those two instances. They really were close to closing, Axl was ready to mix. Thats a go! Its like ABC. Always be closing, You dont keep talking after they agree, you whip out the contract.

But I think they got Shacklers n Sorry out Ezrin. So it wasnt all bad. but I think it shook Axl and that had ramifications.

I didnt read past 2002 but Bucket leaves. That tour was a disaster. It really reads like UYI era, accept the riots came before the release.

Bucket leaving really took it to 2004. then they have to tour to establish Ron and Frank. This to me is Axl trying to make it a band. Everything has a knock on effect.

Maybe Axl won't release it because he knows if people hear it they will notice how much his voice has changed since 2000.

& that he can't sing like he did in 2000, & a concert using "those" songs would be an embarrassment to the GNR name.

i think theyll use vocals from 2000.

Yes on the album, but when he has to sing them in concert people are going to wonder where the rasp is? & how come he sounds so diffierent live.....I think a new album is going to bring his current vocal range in to question for a lot of folks including the critics. A new album would bring him more focus from a lot of people who were not GNR fans to begin with & they will be very critical of his performance somewhat.

[wasted]

Maybe if the label release a record hell get fired up again.

[liers]

They had the industrial album finished by 2000, but the guy who listened to it didn't like it, probably because it didn't sound like GnR. So axl said he would release the industrial things little by little.

[wasted]

I think if the label backed Axl up in 2000 they could have had a record out.

[axlsalinger]

My take on what happened is that the label and or Axl had Bob Ezrin and other listen to some demos - how far along they were in their production is impossible to say, but they were not mixed final tracks. He said they had 3 songs. Somebody at the label heard it and said it doesn't have a single. So in that respect, they could be accused of "rejecting" the material in the early going, but that was somewhere around 1998-2000. If anything, they may have asked Axl to go back and record 1 more catchy song (ie. like they did with Better later on) to be the single. At some point, RTB was brought in and he fucked the whole thing up by demanding that everything be re-recorded. From that point on though, the delay was all on Axl. I am sure the label was horrified that this ended up starting a process that went on for years and years.

[wasted]

My take on what happened is that the label and or Axl had Bob Ezrin and other listen to some demos - how far along they were in their production is impossible to say, but they were not mixed final tracks. He said they had 3 songs. Somebody at the label heard it and said it doesn't have a single. So in that respect, they could be accused of "rejecting" the material in the early going, but that was somewhere around 1998-2000. If anything, they may have asked Axl to go back and record 1 more catchy song (ie. like they did with Better later on) to be the single. At some point, RTB was brought in and he fucked the whole thing up by demanding that everything be re-recorded. From that point on though, the delay was all on Axl. I am sure the label was horrified that this ended up starting a process that went on for years and years.

I agree with this. But I think the first Beavan record was probably fine. Tommy didn't think it was really necessary to bring in RTB to re-record. You'd guess RTB did add some grandness that some people enjoy on the record. I would say the Zutaut quote is about this point where they said they had a great GNR record but no hit and without a hit they won't sell 20 million records, that hints that label and Axl would want to sell 20 million records. What I don't get is why they actually think that, like are they supporting a Slash-less GNR, Zutaut, Jimmy. At that point it seems like they are indulging Axl. So Jimmy brings in RTB and he says re-record everything. Let's make it "better". This plays into what Tommy was saying how people kept coming in saying we could make it better. Tommy said they spent 10 mil on RTB sessions. That's where the money went. At this point Axl was ready to go. This is where I think the label still thinks there's no single. Was this the time Interscope just wanted "Urban" music, 2004 is that the Eminem era? I don't know, anyway Axl rates Ezrin of The Wall, he's a massive industry figure, he says it's not ready, they have 3 songs. To be honest might have been right from what we hear on CD there's various production qualities and Better and SOD sound like GNR singles maybe? You can say that's a good thing but it's not something that regularly gets released. Each song being so indulged is really an Axl Rose thing to do isn't? UYI wasn't really packed full of obvious singles either. It was more like we're so awesome we can put out 10 minute singles. They did seem to do that session in 2004, Bucket, Caram as the new producer now, Shackler's, Scraped, Sorry? Why at that point Axl chose not to put it out in 2004 and let the label put out the GH. Del has said Axl just wasn't ready to put the record out. When it was ready Axl put it out. So with all the detail and stuff, I guess it's that. I'd love to get the Beavan record, the RTB record to compare with the Caram record. If such things exist, maybe everything was so influx that you couldn't pin it down.

[RandallFlagg]

It would be helpful if Axl tried explaining it, then again this is the guy who played Chinese Democracy in a strip club yet didn't bother promoting it when it was released then eventually decided to dump what must've took five hours to write's worth of information regarding fan specific questions... he's a can of extremes alright.

[maynard]

this never happened. made up story by an attention whore. only a fool would believe that.

[Young_Gun]

But why was Zutaut promised a huge bonus if he was able to somehow get the album out by 2001 I believe? Why promise a producer/manager a pay-for-performance fee and then hold up the process? It doesn't make any sense.

This. The notion that the record label refused to release the album in 2000/01/02/03/whatever is absolute fallacy. They released a god damn Greatest Hits record just to recoup the money they poured into Chidem and offered producers bonuses if they had a finished record out by a certain time. That is not a sign of a label that rejected anything.

[Nosaj Thing]

Never happened, all made up, fallacy and fantasy. Not one single solitary thread of truth to it.

[Evil Ernie]

I don't see why they would reject a turned in record. Think of all the shit that's been released over the years from various artists.

If they have an album in the can they will release it to make money. It might not make as much as they would like, but it WOULD be worth them releasing it if they have it.

I don't think that anything else has been turned in the last 20 years except for OMG and CD.

[Estranged Reality]

i actually do think this could be true. i'm not saying it is true, but it would not surprise me at all if the label rejected a new record after the bungled release of Chinese Democracy. I think axl probably alienated a lot of people at UMG - not just with the lack of promotion for the album but the whole history of its production and then the subsequently poor sales in North America. at this point, who is really the target audience for another new GN'R record? that's probably what a label would take into consideration when deciding whether to invest millions into the release of another record (regardless of whether the songs are already recorded, a lot of money still goes into the marketing and actual production of the albums) -- and i hate to say it but there's probably a lot of younger blood at the labels now who would rather try to pressure axl into a reunion and get the reunion dollars, rather than help him further the 'new' GN'R. i'm not saying i support that or anything but if you take a step back and view it objectively, it kind of makes sense that this would be the logic. if ChiDem had been a smash hit with three hit singles and a major U.S. tour we'd probably be in a different situation right now, but at the end of the day outside of doing some shows here and there it seems the domestic market for this incarnation of GN'R simply isn't there, which is why Axl wisely continues to do major tours internationally and restrict the U.S. appearances to smaller venues.