Rumor So GNR Handed Over A New Album in 2010?

[Axl_morris]

“Have no idea and don't care. Hopefully, we'll be working 'Chinese' for a good bit. Of course there's the same idiots that have been around forever already demanding release dates.” Axl Rose (“When’s the next album?” - February 2009)

Would you honestly think if this was Axl's attitude early 09, but he'd be handing a studio album in a busy year of touring in 2010?

[brianthecrow]

Updated the title to not cause any confusion. I'll keep the thread open if you guys want to discuss the delusions, unless the OP requests it be closed.

Not sure why this is suddenly a hot topic when it was already discussed back in 2010. I spoke about it here back then and it was being discussed on music industry websites as well.

As for Blood in the Water, everyone is going to have the whole song soon anyway, so no need for me to comment.

In conclusion, GNR turned in an album and wanted it rushed out in time for reading. UMG said it was too short of notice. It was discussed at the time. Old news. Now three years later a MYGNR moderator is claiming it's false even though he doesn't know what he's talking about. Lovely.

Updated the title to not cause any confusion. I'll keep the thread open if you guys want to discuss the delusions, unless the OP requests it be closed.

Not sure why this is suddenly a hot topic when it was already discussed back in 2010. I spoke about it here back then and it was being discussed on music industry websites as well.

As for Blood in the Water, everyone is going to have the whole song soon anyway, so no need for me to comment.

In conclusion, GNR turned in an album and wanted it rushed out in time for reading. UMG said it was too short of notice. It was discussed at the time. Old news. Now three years later a MYGNR moderator is claiming it's false even though he doesn't know what he's talking about. Lovely.

How soon do you think?

[DieselDaisy]

The whole thing is a bullshit story created by MSL.

[alfierose]

“Have no idea and don't care. Hopefully, we'll be working 'Chinese' for a good bit. Of course there's the same idiots that have been around forever already demanding release dates.” Axl Rose (“When’s the next album?” - February 2009)

Would you honestly think if this was Axl's attitude early 09, but he'd be handing a studio album in a busy year of touring in 2010?

If it was anyone else I would say no but with Axl it doesn't seem too far fetched.

[Amir]

“Have no idea and don't care. Hopefully, we'll be working 'Chinese' for a good bit. Of course there's the same idiots that have been around forever already demanding release dates.” Axl Rose (“When’s the next album?” - February 2009)

Would you honestly think if this was Axl's attitude early 09, but he'd be handing a studio album in a busy year of touring in 2010?

This is also the same guy who back in Dec '08 said he saw it as a double and maybe "same bat-time, same bat-channel". He has mood swings. Maybe the negative reception to the album had hit home by then?

[downzy]

The problem I have with this rumor is the economics of it all. I can somewhat understand the label refusing to release another GNR album under Axl's desired time-frame ("we've got a show in two months, here you go - have this out before then"), but I have a difficult time accepting any notion that UMG would prevent the release of a GNR album in general. So few albums make money these days that labels need albums from bands who can move several hundred thousand units to subsidize their losses from other bands. The brand GNR can still move a million plus units internationally so why a label would refuse to release another disc by the band defies common sense.

If the label refused to release the next album simply because it didn't make logistical sense, I don't see why efforts weren't made to release it at other moments when GNR was about to tour. How long did we know of RIR4? I can't remember but I think everyone was given at least eight to ten months notice about that show. There would have been plenty of time to plan for a proper release then.

I would really advise against any attitude that wishes to place blame on the label for the lack of GNR material. Unless UMG is being run by bat-shit idiots who don't care about their personal or corporate bank accounts, there's no plausible explanation why a label would hold up a release.

Edited August 12, 2013 by downzy

[Guest NGOG]

Updated the title to not cause any confusion. I'll keep the thread open if you guys want to discuss the delusions, unless the OP requests it be closed.

music industry websites as well.

Link?

[magisme]

[Nick85]

“Have no idea and don't care. Hopefully, we'll be working 'Chinese' for a good bit. Of course there's the same idiots that have been around forever already demanding release dates.” Axl Rose (“When’s the next album?” - February 2009)

Would you honestly think if this was Axl's attitude early 09, but he'd be handing a studio album in a busy year of touring in 2010?

This is also the same guy who back in Dec '08 said he saw it as a double and maybe "same bat-time, same bat-channel". He has mood swings. Maybe the negative reception to the album had hit home by then?

Yeah, I always found it utterly bizarre how fast he changed his mind about the next album (that "don't know don't care" quote was like 2 or 3 months after he talked up the next album to fans.)

I would really advise against any attitude that wishes to place blame on the label for the lack of GNR material. Unless UMG is being run by bat-shit idiots who don't care about their personal or corporate bank accounts, there's no plausible explanation why a label would hold up a release.

Yeah, I gotta agree that school of logic is hard to ignore. You just don't say "Pass." to a Guns N' Roses album, and I'm quite sure they didn't.

Edited August 12, 2013 by sofine11

[Apollo]

Updated the title to not cause any confusion. I'll keep the thread open if you guys want to discuss the delusions, unless the OP requests it be closed.

As for Blood in the Water, everyone is going to have the whole song soon anyway, so no need for me to comment.

In conclusion, GNR turned in an album and wanted it rushed out in time for reading. UMG said it was too short of notice. It was discussed at the time. Old news. Now three years later a MYGNR moderator is claiming it's false even though he doesn't know what he's talking about. Lovely.

"have the whole song soon anyway"...............by itself, in a remix album or on a new album?

If the album was rushed/too short of notice in 2010, why wasn't it released in the following three years?

Since you seem to have knowledge of the music industry and some inside contacts that most of us don't, what is your opinion on why Axl is waiting so long to release a new album?

[Ali]

What has Beta or Fernando said about this?

If this is true, why wouldn't the band tell us about it?

Why would they tell us about this?

How many times in the run-up to releasing CD were we told about any back and forth negotiations regarding the album?

Ali

[username]

I don't believe anything MSL says. Give me a credible source and we'll see from there.

[Ali]

The problem I have with this rumor is the economics of it all. I can somewhat understand the label refusing to release another GNR album under Axl's desired time-frame ("we've got a show in two months, here you go - have this out before then"), but I have a difficult time accepting any notion that UMG would prevent the release of a GNR album in general. So few albums make money these days that labels need albums from bands who can move several hundred thousand units to subsidize their losses from other bands. The brand GNR can still move a million plus units internationally so why a label would refuse to release another disc by the band defies common sense.

If the label refused to release the next album simply because it didn't make logistical sense, I don't see why efforts weren't made to release it at other moments when GNR was about to tour. How long did we know of RIR4? I can't remember but I think everyone was given at least eight to ten months notice about that show. There would have been plenty of time to plan for a proper release then.

I would really advise against any attitude that wishes to place blame on the label for the lack of GNR material. Unless UMG is being run by bat-shit idiots who don't care about their personal or corporate bank accounts, there's no plausible explanation why a label would hold up a release.

There are other reasons why the label may be reluctant to release a new GN'R album without certain conditions. Two I can think of right off the bat are: 1) a desire or need to have assurances that Axl will more actively participate in the promotion of this album. 2) As much as I love CD, IMO, it does not have an abundance of radio-friendly singles. Perhaps that is something the label desires this time around. Additionally, perhaps Axl and the band will not commit to participation in a promotional/marketing plan without knowing what the promotional/marketing plan and/or budget are.

So, there are potential reasons why the label may hold up the release of an album. The degree of plausibility may depend on each individual's perspective.

Ali

[gavgnr]

As for Blood in the Water, everyone is going to have the whole song soon anyway.

Any more info on this?

[Nick85]

The problem I have with this rumor is the economics of it all. I can somewhat understand the label refusing to release another GNR album under Axl's desired time-frame ("we've got a show in two months, here you go - have this out before then"), but I have a difficult time accepting any notion that UMG would prevent the release of a GNR album in general. So few albums make money these days that labels need albums from bands who can move several hundred thousand units to subsidize their losses from other bands. The brand GNR can still move a million plus units internationally so why a label would refuse to release another disc by the band defies common sense.

If the label refused to release the next album simply because it didn't make logistical sense, I don't see why efforts weren't made to release it at other moments when GNR was about to tour. How long did we know of RIR4? I can't remember but I think everyone was given at least eight to ten months notice about that show. There would have been plenty of time to plan for a proper release then.

I would really advise against any attitude that wishes to place blame on the label for the lack of GNR material. Unless UMG is being run by bat-shit idiots who don't care about their personal or corporate bank accounts, there's no plausible explanation why a label would hold up a release.

There are other reasons why the label may be reluctant to release a new GN'R album without certain conditions. Two I can think of right off the bat are: 1) a desire or need to have assurances that Axl will more actively participate in the promotion of this album. 2) As much as I love CD, IMO, it does not have an abundance of radio-friendly singles. Perhaps that is something the label desires this time around. Additionally, perhaps Axl and the band will not commit to participation in a promotional/marketing plan without knowing what the promotional/marketing plan and/or budget are.

So, there are potential reasons why the label may hold up the release of an album. The degree of plausibility may depend on each individual's perspective.

Ali

I agree that the current, and ovbvious, impasse between Axl & the label regarding the followup to Chinese Democracy has to do with how to properly market/promote it with assurances on both ends that seeminly not have been delivered on yet. Otherwise, we may very well be listening to The General & Atlas Shrugged on our iPods right now.

However, I just can't see Axl handing the label over 12 or 14 tracks and having them simply pass on releasing them, because they feel it's been delivered on "short notice" or whatever else we're supposed to believe in this scenario. Not when the labels are starving the way they are. Doesn't make any financial sense and, especially without literally an ounce of proof, I just don't believe it.

[downzy]

The problem I have with this rumor is the economics of it all. I can somewhat understand the label refusing to release another GNR album under Axl's desired time-frame ("we've got a show in two months, here you go - have this out before then"), but I have a difficult time accepting any notion that UMG would prevent the release of a GNR album in general. So few albums make money these days that labels need albums from bands who can move several hundred thousand units to subsidize their losses from other bands. The brand GNR can still move a million plus units internationally so why a label would refuse to release another disc by the band defies common sense.

If the label refused to release the next album simply because it didn't make logistical sense, I don't see why efforts weren't made to release it at other moments when GNR was about to tour. How long did we know of RIR4? I can't remember but I think everyone was given at least eight to ten months notice about that show. There would have been plenty of time to plan for a proper release then.

I would really advise against any attitude that wishes to place blame on the label for the lack of GNR material. Unless UMG is being run by bat-shit idiots who don't care about their personal or corporate bank accounts, there's no plausible explanation why a label would hold up a release.

There are other reasons why the label may be reluctant to release a new GN'R album without certain conditions. Two I can think of right off the bat are: 1) a desire or need to have assurances that Axl will more actively participate in the promotion of this album. 2) As much as I love CD, IMO, it does not have an abundance of radio-friendly singles. Perhaps that is something the label desires this time around. Additionally, perhaps Axl and the band will not commit to participation in a promotional/marketing plan without knowing what the promotional/marketing plan and/or budget are.

So, there are potential reasons why the label may hold up the release of an album. The degree of plausibility may depend on each individual's perspective.

Ali

As for your first point, Axl and the band had a bevy of tour dates lined up if I recall correctly. With the band out and about promoting the material, you would think this would have given the label enough assurance that the band was committed to another release. When Chinese Democracy was released the band wasn't out there touring. That wasn't the case in 2010 (or 2011, 2012, 2013) when the label could easily count on the band to do promotion while on the road.

As for your second point, how many "radio-friendly" tracks did Chinese Democracy have and ultimately how many albums did it sell? Despite having little to no radio exposure the album still managed to move millions. Do you know how many artists UMG has on its roster that's capable of doing that? (Hint: not many). UMG is in the business of making money. They lose money on something like 80 percent of all albums they release. They need their big artists to recoup their losses. This is how the record industry works. The lack of radio-friendly songs on a GNR follow up wouldn't have prevented the company from bringing in the much needed revenue. The only financial reason for pushing back a release is because a company wants to pad its year-end or a particular quarter.

Moreover, are you telling me that the label was willing to risk holding off the release of a GNR album considering what they went through to get Chinese Democracy? How many millions of dollars did UMG burn through to entice Axl to turn something in. How long did they wait before they finally got something from Axl? Now all of sudden Axl's dropping off 12-14 tracks and the label thinks it's best to write "return to sender" because they don't hear any hits? You obviously have a different understanding of the music industry than I have.

Edited August 12, 2013 by downzy

[Amir]

I think this is where the rumour originally started (MSL comes in about halfway through the thread): http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/164652-a-rumor-i-found/

Note: found this when trying to figure out when Manets said he heard the follow up would be self-titled, he pops up just after MSL.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Amir

[dalsh327]

Interscope made Axl a low priority when ChiDem finally came out. If they were complaining about an out of control budget, let's not forget he made Universal hundreds of millions of dollars over 2 decades.

It sounds like Axl knows he has to give them something archival when he puts the next album out, there's not really much to put out except a Deluxe Edition of AFD.

Labels aren't starving, and things have changed in 5 years, but any artist over 40 has a hard time selling new music. Even U2 didn't seem motivated to put new music out.

I think some bands just sat out the past few years to work on new music because they thought it would have been a waste of time, money and energy to do it and not sell many copies. They're all trying to find ways to sell the music that was left in the hands of record company people in the past. Now it's in the hands of social media and retweets.

[Apollo]

What has Beta or Fernando said about this?

If this is true, why wouldn't the band tell us about it?

Why would they tell us about this?

How many times in the run-up to releasing CD were we told about any back and forth negotiations regarding the album?

Ali

Because they are the band's management team?

Serious question - are you capable of looking at a situation involving Axl or beta/her children with an open mind, or do you look at EVERY situation involving them with the caveat of them always being correct?

As for your response to Downzy.

A GnR record released today is going to sell a million copies even if Axl doesn't promote it. It's a guaranteed money maker.

Ali, you seem like a smart guy. But man, always painting every picture to make Axl/Beta appear to be in the right and everybody else to be at fault, really isn't a good look for you. Do you really believe all the things you post, or are do you just purposely go out of your way to defend them? Kind of like a mother who always takes her child's side, even when she knows the child is a little hoodlum?

[ManetsBR]

When did MSL lie? This is not an ironic question, I'm expectin answers of why some people don't trust him.

Manets, explain the huge difference in sound quality between the Prostitute remix bits and the "blood in the water" vocals (which sound like they're on loop)? I believe that about 5 secs is genuinely from a new song, the rest is padding and looping. Why? I don't know, but I hear what I hear.

They're on a loop. MSL and Hitman made a podcast a few months ago where they discussed Blood In The Water. There isn't much more rather than that Prostitute-based chorus on a loop.

Edited August 12, 2013 by ManetsBR

[Ali]

The problem I have with this rumor is the economics of it all. I can somewhat understand the label refusing to release another GNR album under Axl's desired time-frame ("we've got a show in two months, here you go - have this out before then"), but I have a difficult time accepting any notion that UMG would prevent the release of a GNR album in general. So few albums make money these days that labels need albums from bands who can move several hundred thousand units to subsidize their losses from other bands. The brand GNR can still move a million plus units internationally so why a label would refuse to release another disc by the band defies common sense.

If the label refused to release the next album simply because it didn't make logistical sense, I don't see why efforts weren't made to release it at other moments when GNR was about to tour. How long did we know of RIR4? I can't remember but I think everyone was given at least eight to ten months notice about that show. There would have been plenty of time to plan for a proper release then.

I would really advise against any attitude that wishes to place blame on the label for the lack of GNR material. Unless UMG is being run by bat-shit idiots who don't care about their personal or corporate bank accounts, there's no plausible explanation why a label would hold up a release.

There are other reasons why the label may be reluctant to release a new GN'R album without certain conditions. Two I can think of right off the bat are: 1) a desire or need to have assurances that Axl will more actively participate in the promotion of this album. 2) As much as I love CD, IMO, it does not have an abundance of radio-friendly singles. Perhaps that is something the label desires this time around. Additionally, perhaps Axl and the band will not commit to participation in a promotional/marketing plan without knowing what the promotional/marketing plan and/or budget are.

So, there are potential reasons why the label may hold up the release of an album. The degree of plausibility may depend on each individual's perspective.

Ali

As for your first point, Axl and the band had a bevy of tour dates lined up if I recall correctly. With the band out and about promoting the material, you would think this would have given the label enough assurance that the band was committed to another release. When Chinese Democracy was released the band wasn't out there touring. That wasn't the case in 2010 (or 2011, 2012, 2013) when the label could easily count on the band to do promotion while on the road.

As for your second point, how many "radio-friendly" tracks did Chinese Democracy have and ultimately how many albums did it sell? Despite having little to no radio exposure the album still managed to move millions. Do you know how many artists UMG has on its roster that's capable of doing that? (Hint: not many). UMG is in the business of making money. They lose money on something like 80 percent of all albums they release. They need their big artists to recoup their losses. This is how the record industry works. The lack of radio-friendly songs on a GNR follow up wouldn't have prevented the company from bringing in the much needed revenue. The only financial reason for pushing back a release is because a company wants to pad its year-end or a particular quarter.

Moreover, are you telling me that the label was willing to risk holding off the release of a GNR album considering what they went through to get Chinese Democracy? How many millions of dollars did UMG burn through to entice Axl to turn something in. How long did they wait before they finally got something from Axl? Now all of sudden Axl's dropping off 12-14 tracks and the label thinks it's best to write "return to sender" because they don't hear any hits? You obviously have a different understanding of the music industry than I have.

Touring is one form of promotion. There are others, most notably doing press for an album. Obviously, there is a ongoing reluctance on Axl's part to work with the press. Perhaps that is a factor.

Not being happy with the radio-friendly nature or tone of a particular album would not be an uncommon reason for a label to push out or reject an album by an artist. Keep in mind this is the same label that told MIA that rejected her album because they were "having a bit of an issue" about the tone of the album. "I've been told it's 'too positive'," MIA explained to Australia's Gold Coast Bulletin. "They're like, 'You need to, like, darken it up a bit'." (http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/jun/18/mia-fourth-album-interscope).

So, to put it past Interscope to reject an album for reasons that are incredibly subjective and possibly difficult to comprehend would be short-sighted.

You say the label would make money on a GN'R release. Sure, they would. But, why do you assume it is just about making money instead of making the most money possible by maximizing sales? We'll never know if CD would've sold more if "Better" was chosen as a lead single instead a song like the title track, which doesn't have any radio-friendly hooks to speak of, or if more catchy songs like "Better" were on the album. But, it's possible. Also, a more active role from Axl in the album's promotion and more singes may help in that regard. To be clear, I'm merely offering a possible reason why the label would not accept an album as is. The MIA situation shows that this particular label has exhibited that sort of behavior, and done that recently.

What has Beta or Fernando said about this?

If this is true, why wouldn't the band tell us about it?

Why would they tell us about this?

How many times in the run-up to releasing CD were we told about any back and forth negotiations regarding the album?

Ali

Because they are the band's management team?

Serious question - are you capable of looking at a situation involving Axl or beta/her children with an open mind, or do you look at EVERY situation involving them with the caveat of them always being correct?

As for your response to Downzy.

A GnR record released today is going to sell a million copies even if Axl doesn't promote it. It's a guaranteed money maker.

Ali, you seem like a smart guy. But man, always painting every picture to make Axl/Beta appear to be in the right and everybody else to be at fault, really isn't a good look for you. Do you really believe all the things you post, or are do you just purposely go out of your way to defend them? Kind of like a mother who always takes her child's side, even when she knows the child is a little hoodlum?

Since you didn't answer my 2nd question at all, and instead went down the road of your usual rhetoric and MO of commenting on the poster and not the post itself, I can see no fruitful discussion can be had here.

Ali

Edited August 12, 2013 by Ali

[Coma16]

Ali - I believe that is, what some refer to as, Groghanism

[jmapelian]

Interscope made Axl a low priority when ChiDem finally came out. If they were complaining about an out of control budget, let's not forget he made Universal hundreds of millions of dollars over 2 decades.

It sounds like Axl knows he has to give them something archival when he puts the next album out, there's not really much to put out except a Deluxe Edition of AFD.

Labels aren't starving, and things have changed in 5 years, but any artist over 40 has a hard time selling new music. Even U2 didn't seem motivated to put new music out.

I think some bands just sat out the past few years to work on new music because they thought it would have been a waste of time, money and energy to do it and not sell many copies. They're all trying to find ways to sell the music that was left in the hands of record company people in the past. Now it's in the hands of social media and retweets.

1st thing you need is good music. Then word of mouth. How do you think the old gnr got to playing b4 a handful of people to selling out clubs? Then opening for all the biggest bands, than selling out stadiums?

[Axl_morris]

I don't see why MSL is a credible source. Yes he may have leaked stuff or heard some info in the past but now he is milking it.

why don't we black list anything that comes from his forum unless there is a reliable source to back it up.

if we don't then you are only searching for some news, piecing together rumours on the hope of something, that probably doesn't exist.

We know there's a tonne of left over songs, was an album handed in to UMG in 2010? Who knows, doesn't matter as we never got it anyway.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Axl_morris

[ManetsBR]

Morris, tell me something that MSL said that didn't turn out to be truth.