How all Guns N' Roses fans are suffering from the Jar Jar Binks Effect.

[Kaneda]

Guns N' Roses fans (me included) are now all suffering from something I like to call the Jar Jar Binks Effect. The Jar Jar Binks Effect offcurs when you are unable to see the world objectively. When your expectations and pride combine to form a spell that washes over your judgement and you are unable to see the true merits of things. And when you experience the Jar Jar Binks Effect, you don't listen to people around you. You think what you're experiencing is great, what you're creating is great, what you're hearing is great, and no matter what anyone else says, you are convinced of your own belief. The first documented case of the Jar Jar Binks Effect occured on the set of Star Wars. It afflicted George Lucas. He thought Jar Jar Binks was a good idea. And just imagine the thousands of people around him who had to witness the creation of Jar Jar. None of them were able to step in and convince George that maybe he wasn't that good. That maybe Jar Jar was total shit and would ruin the movie. But George, being George, turned these people off, or even worse, created an impossible environment for people to give him real feedback / help. For who was some peon to tell George Lucas what would work. And so the Jar Jar Effect was born.

George Lucas, the creator of the Jar Jar Binks effect is very similar to a Mr. W. Axl Rose. Both men created masterpieces. Both men made their best work young. Both men's art spawned millions of fans around the world. And both men have been very unsuccessful in their attempts to recapture their past glory. And fans of each will swear, if given enough tries, each man is still capable of magic. But that has yet to be seen.

I write this post because of one thing - people claiming Going Down is one of the greatest songs GNR has ever written. This is a result of the Jar Jar Binks Effect. This song is neither bad or great, it's just average. Turn off the fact that it came from GNR. Turn off Axl's background vocals and ask yourself, if you listened to this song objectively, without knowing where it came from, would you get that excited? But then it happens...your mind, which has spent decades defending GNR and Axl's ability to friends/family, turns on the only defense mechanism it knows - TO OVERTLY CLAIM ANYTHING COMING FROM GUNS IS GREAT.

The only remedy for the Jar Jar Binks effect is to accept, once and for all, that it's over. The magic is gone. Not gone from this world, just gone from this band. The biggest mistake GNR fans make is waiting around for a new magical moment...this wait not only emotionally freezes them from the ability to enjoy where the real magic is happening these days (with other artists), but it's also a huge collosal waste of time.

Now threads are popping up about Atlas Shrugged and all of the material that didn't make it onto CD. Now a logical person would say the songs that didn't make the cut aren't as good as the ones that did. Axl knew he needed CD to make a huge impact, no way his best guns were left for rounds 2 and 3. And we got his best and for many of us, it was really good. Sure not as good as the band we grew up with. Not as good as old Guns, but it was a really solid album that has aged well. But now fans sensing that there in for another long wait for material are letting the Jar Jar Effect take hold...bold statements are flying about how the unreleased material is going to be great. How they'll hear it soon. How some magic is out there if only we knew how to find it.

I used to come on this board every day, excited to talk about the music and the future of this band. But back then (circa 2002-2008) there was real excitement to discuss. Axl looked young and eager...there was promise. Now, the whole operation feels fatigued and bloated. Sure they still put on a great live show and I'll always catch one when I can. But what else is there to look forward to.

It all comes down to this. Magic can't be orchestrated. All of the millions pumped into Chinese D has not produced one song that even comes close to the song Axl and West Arkeen wrote sitting in a dive bar....Yesterday's got nothing for me, old pictures that I'll always see, time just fades the pages in my book of memories...

Kaneda

[Young_Gun]

Thank you! People claiming Going Down is a great song, a potential hit single, the best thing since YCBM seriously need to reevaluate the song.

[Axl_morris]

Its better than the spaghetti incident, apart from 'aint it fun'.

Its easier to listen to than some Chinese tracks as well, but that's where its greatness ends.

[Gordon Comstock]

It's a good song, a fun little rock song, nothing more. I'm looking forward to hearing a finished product eventually I think some people are only shitting on it so hard because others are fawning over it so hard, if someone likes the song more than whatever other song, it doesn't bother me.

[Spark]

Hahahahaha! Brilliant post! absolutely spot on.

We have all been blinded by nostalgia at some point or another, after all that's why many of us are here.

My eyes were opened long ago to the reality of the situation.

Thank you.

[Scarstruck]

Yea, sums it up pretty well.

[Lies They Tell]

I agree that Going Down is nothing special. But your idea that the magic is gone from this band is just as deluded as thinking that Going Down is a masterpiece. Just accept the fact that you don't know what the future holds for GNR. You don't know it and I don't know it. Who knows, maybe the greatest songs are yet to be released... Or maybe not. We don't know, so accept it.

All we know is that many of the unreleased songs are considered big guns. We know that November Rain, You Could Be Mine and Don't Cry were not put on AFD, but saved for later. That's why we know that Axl tends to save big guns for later. And every logical person knows that Chinese Democracy was doomed before it was even released. It could never have lived up to the hype. So what would have been the point in putting all your best songs on an album that was doomed, no matter how good it was.

The only good decision that Axl could possibly have made, is to save big guns for later, so that he can release a great record later that won't have the burden of Chinese Democracy. A record that would be judged only because of the music and nothing else. Only a blind fool would have put all the big guns on a doomed record. I don't think Axl is THAT stupid.

[themadcaplaughs]

I will argue only two facts. The first being there are moments on Chinese Democracy that I feel are on equal footing with the classic lineups, many moment even surpassing the weaker moments on the Use Your Illusion albums. So don't take this as me saying "if the World" is a better song than, say, "Welcome to the Jungle," but I'd take a song like "If the World" or "Catcher in the Rye" any day over "Shotgun Blues" or "Back off Bitch."

Also, as others have pointed out, it is not unprecedented that Axl saves bigger stuff for later. That's the reason "November Rain" was not on Appetite for Destruction. Considering that Axl, as recently as 2008, claimed he saw Chinese Democracy era songs being a two album cycle, I do not think it is unfair to assume at least two or three "big" songs will be on a later album. Also worth considering is that "Atlas Shrugged" might have been as good as other songs on Chinese Democracy since Bumblefoot said it was going to be on the album until the last minute.

Besides that, everything else is spot on. That we have people here claiming "Going Down" is radio hit material is laughable. It's a B-/C+ song that I'm willing to guess was written for a Stinson album that got an upgrade from Guns N' Roses.

Edited August 19, 2013 by themadcaplaughs

[Flayer]

Nice try, but the logic of that analogy doesn't flow correctly. The Jar Jar effect as you described it is a creator going ahead with creating something obviously shitty and apparently having no idea that everyone would hate it. If you were going to say that Axl had that when he created Chinese Democracy, it'd at least be a logical analogy. I wouldn't agree with it, but it would at least make sense. Saying that fans are over praising anything new from Axl has nothing to do with the Jar Jar effect. Fucking nobody praised Jar Jar Binks just because he was a Lucas creation.

[luciusfunk]

It's still real to me, dammit!

[the rush]

I agree that Going Down is nothing special. But your idea that the magic is gone from this band is just as deluded as thinking that Going Down is a masterpiece. Just accept the fact that you don't know what the future holds for GNR. You don't know it and I don't know it. Who knows, maybe the greatest songs are yet to be released... Or maybe not. We don't know, so accept it.

All we know is that many of the unreleased songs are considered big guns. We know that November Rain, You Could Be Mine and Don't Cry were not put on AFD, but saved for later. That's why we know that Axl tends to save big guns for later. And every logical person knows that Chinese Democracy was doomed before it was even released. It could never have lived up to the hype. So what would have been the point in putting all your best songs on an album that was doomed, no matter how good it was.

The only good decision that Axl could possibly have made, is to save big guns for later, so that he can release a great record later that won't have the burden of Chinese Democracy. A record that would be judged only because of the music and nothing else. Only a blind fool would have put all the big guns on a doomed record. I don't think Axl is THAT stupid.

I agree. Also, after hearing DJ's Better it seems to me that he might infact be a good composer Axl i s looking for. Stinson writes the songs like Going Down, Ron writes goofy stuff similar in a way to going down. I expect good things from pitman and richard also. I'm putting my money on Axl DJ combo because although DJ might write generic emo or whatever bullshit on his own, he just might provide Axl with the right type of material he can productively work with, improve and turn into a genuine GNR fine product

[niceguy]

Best post I've ever read here.

[Randy Lahey]

Great post Kaneda. It's only kids who weren't even born when Appetite For Destruction came out that think this song could be a hit. Sorry, somebody had to represent for BBA since he's on suspension still.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Randy Lahey

[T.wa.T]

It's a demo,

and that's part of the problem when there's leaks. We've all made a judgement on a version of a song that isn't meant to be heard in is current state. I like the demo, it has a lot of potential, but Im not gonna say the song sucks when is not finished.Same goes for the leaks that occurred prior to CD coming out.

Prior to the internet, very few people would get the chance to hear demos before the finished song. So the majority heard the songs the way the artist meant the songs to be heard and could then make a fair judgement on the songs, judging a demo isnt fair to the artist. Wait until the final product.

[vaida]

Guns N' Roses fans (me included) are now all suffering from something I like to call the Jar Jar Binks Effect. The Jar Jar Binks Effect offcurs when you are unable to see the world objectively. When your expectations and pride combine to form a spell that washes over your judgement and you are unable to see the true merits of things. And when you experience the Jar Jar Binks Effect, you don't listen to people around you. You think what you're experiencing is great, what you're creating is great, what you're hearing is great, and no matter what anyone else says, you are convinced of your own belief. The first documented case of the Jar Jar Binks Effect occured on the set of Star Wars. It afflicted George Lucas. He thought Jar Jar Binks was a good idea. And just imagine the thousands of people around him who had to witness the creation of Jar Jar. None of them were able to step in and convince George that maybe he wasn't that good. That maybe Jar Jar was total shit and would ruin the movie. But George, being George, turned these people off, or even worse, created an impossible environment for people to give him real feedback / help. For who was some peon to tell George Lucas what would work. And so the Jar Jar Effect was born.

George Lucas, the creator of the Jar Jar Binks effect is very similar to a Mr. W. Axl Rose. Both men created masterpieces. Both men made their best work young. Both men's art spawned millions of fans around the world. And both men have been very unsuccessful in their attempts to recapture their past glory. And fans of each will swear, if given enough tries, each man is still capable of magic. But that has yet to be seen.

I write this post because of one thing - people claiming Going Down is one of the greatest songs GNR has ever written. This is a result of the Jar Jar Binks Effect. This song is neither bad or great, it's just average. Turn off the fact that it came from GNR. Turn off Axl's background vocals and ask yourself, if you listened to this song objectively, without knowing where it came from, would you get that excited? But then it happens...your mind, which has spent decades defending GNR and Axl's ability to friends/family, turns on the only defense mechanism it knows - TO OVERTLY CLAIM ANYTHING COMING FROM GUNS IS GREAT.

The only remedy for the Jar Jar Binks effect is to accept, once and for all, that it's over. The magic is gone. Not gone from this world, just gone from this band. The biggest mistake GNR fans make is waiting around for a new magical moment...this wait not only emotionally freezes them from the ability to enjoy where the real magic is happening these days (with other artists), but it's also a huge collosal waste of time.

Now threads are popping up about Atlas Shrugged and all of the material that didn't make it onto CD. Now a logical person would say the songs that didn't make the cut aren't as good as the ones that did. Axl knew he needed CD to make a huge impact, no way his best guns were left for rounds 2 and 3. And we got his best and for many of us, it was really good. Sure not as good as the band we grew up with. Not as good as old Guns, but it was a really solid album that has aged well. But now fans sensing that there in for another long wait for material are letting the Jar Jar Effect take hold...bold statements are flying about how the unreleased material is going to be great. How they'll hear it soon. How some magic is out there if only we knew how to find it.

I used to come on this board every day, excited to talk about the music and the future of this band. But back then (circa 2002-2008) there was real excitement to discuss. Axl looked young and eager...there was promise. Now, the whole operation feels fatigued and bloated. Sure they still put on a great live show and I'll always catch one when I can. But what else is there to look forward to.

It all comes down to this. Magic can't be orchestrated. All of the millions pumped into Chinese D has not produced one song that even comes close to the song Axl and West Arkeen wrote sitting in a dive bar....Yesterday's got nothing for me, old pictures that I'll always see, time just fades the pages in my book of memories...

Kaneda

The (3) new Star Wars films don't compare to (original) Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back. Fact.

[T.wa.T]

Great post Kaneda. It's only kids who weren't even born when Appetite For Destruction came out that think this song could be a hit. Sorry, somebody had to represent for BBA since he's on suspension still.

The band members and label themselves had no clue what Appetite would become, there's no way to tell what's a hit and what isn't.

[RussTCB]

This seems like a good place to ask this:

Why is it that among GN'R fans, it seems to be frowned upon to be anything but extreme. For me, I don't like DJ's Better, I do like Ron's and I'm luke warm on Going Down (so far). But a large group of fans seem to want to force the issue that you must either love or hate it all.

[themadcaplaughs]

This seems like a good place to ask this:

Why is it that among GN'R fans, it seems to be frowned upon to be anything but extreme. For me, I don't like DJ's Better, I do like Ron's and I'm luke warm on Going Down (so far). But a large group of fans seem to want to force the issue that you must either love or hate it all.

You summed up my views on the recent leaks perfectly. DJ's "Better" was atrocious. Ron's version was hardly earth shattering, but certainly presented a cool new way to look at the song. "Going Down" is what it is to me: a Stinson song that happened to be brought to the GN'R table.

[classicrawker]

Interesting read Kaneda but you lost me with the following line

but it was a really solid album that has aged well.

It had potential but it was already out of date when it was released as Axl missed his chance back in 2001 and has not aged well IMHO.........

[MrPoe]

Very good analogy. But Lucas didn't wait for the new films to capture past glory. "Return of the Jedi" was almost a complete remake of the first movie. The new films were more insidious; with Lucas wanting to make fully functional "digital actors" to sell the idea to future productions that would use his FX studio.

I don't pretend to know anything about Axl Rose's state of mind, but when he was struggling, he must have put all those frustrations and anger into the music as a sort of therapy. Once he was famous and didn't have those past monetary worries, he may have just threw said money at problems as a fix-all.

[ManetsBR]

No one said Going Down is one of the best Guns N' Roses song ever.

And NuGNR IS the band I grew up listening to. I started to listen to them when on 2007, when I was 13.

[Coma16]

Is it pronounced Yar-Yar?

[Guest]

But then it happens...your mind, which has spent decades defending GNR and Axl's ability to friends/family, turns on the only defense mechanism it knows - TO OVERTLY CLAIM ANYTHING COMING FROM GUNS IS GREAT.

This is a well known psychological effect known as cognitive dissonance. Our mind doesn't like conflicting thoughts so very often will adjust rationales to keep them complementary.

As for Going Down itself, you raise some good points. There are a lot of hyperboles being thrown around about it at the moment but it is still a very good song

[DieselDaisy]

It's a demo,

and that's part of the problem when there's leaks. We've all made a judgement on a version of a song that isn't meant to be heard in is current state. I like the demo, it has a lot of potential, but Im not gonna say the song sucks when is not finished.Same goes for the leaks that occurred prior to CD coming out.

Prior to the internet, very few people would get the chance to hear demos before the finished song. So the majority heard the songs the way the artist meant the songs to be heard and could then make a fair judgement on the songs, judging a demo isnt fair to the artist. Wait until the final product.

I disagree. The chords are in place. The vocals/lyrics are in place. The guitars are in place. All of the other instruments are in place. The sound quality is fair-good. The only difference that I can potentially conceive of happening, between a Going Down demo and a Going Down 'finished product', is W. Axl Rose fucking the demo up the arse by adding a load of loops and overdubs.

I think we can safetly and fairly assess Going Down based on what we possess.

Edited August 19, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[Randy Lahey]

I've always thought that Bumblefoot was New GNR's Jar Jar Binks.