Michael Jackson

[DR DOOM]

The guy sang and danced like a motherfucker, its a shame he didn't knuckle down on the music side of things instead of all the surgery etc.

Doom cried when he heard the King of Pop died

HISSTORY kicks a lot of ass, its a shame invincible was incredibly meh instead of following suit.

[magisme]

The guy sang and danced like a motherfucker, its a shame he didn't knuckle down on the music side of things instead of all the surgery etc.

Doom cried when he heard the King of Pop died

HISSTORY kicks a lot of ass, its a shame invincible was incredibly meh instead of following suit.

WE WANT CAPS, DOOM!

[DR DOOM]

THEN CAPS YOU SHALL RECIEVE!

[Guest Len B'stard]

3. Elvis (im sorry but MJ has more quality tunes imo. But if you want him 2nd thats fine)

Mike, Mike, Mike...hold up here, hold up one second! MJ's solo work couldn't fill a 50 track songlist with 10 out of 10 A+ tracks. Elvis can...and probably more than once.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/50-Greatest-Hits-Elvis-Presley/dp/B000053HKY

There ain't one song there that ain't a 10 out of 10 belter. Now show me the Jacko equivalent. It ain't there man. The King don't get enough respect these days, the sexy motherfucker

[magisme]

THEN CAPS YOU SHALL RECIEVE!

I forgot about Dr. Evil. We want that too!

[RussTCB]

3. Elvis (im sorry but MJ has more quality tunes imo. But if you want him 2nd thats fine)

Mike, Mike, Mike...hold up here, hold up one second! MJ's solo work couldn't fill a 50 track songlist with 10 out of 10 A+ tracks. Elvis can...and probably more than once.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/50-Greatest-Hits-Elvis-Presley/dp/B000053HKY

There ain't one song there that ain't a 10 out of 10 belter. Now show me the Jacko equivalent. It ain't there man. The King don't get enough respect these days, the sexy motherfucker

I stopped in at LVH (formerly the Hilton) the other night and was boring my wife with stories of Elvis' time there. That era of 1969-1974 in Vegas is my absolute favorite.

Overall, I think I like MJ and Elvis equally.

[bacardimayne]

Elvis was a fucking hack. Never wrote a song in his life. If he didn't exist, someone else would've been Elvis. MJ was one of a kind.

Edited September 11, 2013 by bacardimayne

[Johnny Drama]

Elvis was a fucking hack. Never wrote a song in his life. If he didn't exist, someone else would've been Elvis. MJ was one of a kind.

You always make that point - in that case who would have "been Elvis"?

And MJ didn't write much of Off The Wall and Thriller.

[bacardimayne]

The next handsome guy with a nice voice?

He wrote Billie Jean and Beat It. That alone is more of an accomplishment than any of Elvis's inferior versions of blues songs.

Edited September 11, 2013 by bacardimayne

[Guest Len B'stard]

Elvis was a fucking hack. Never wrote a song in his life.

Yeah but he wasn't a songwriter, thats sort of like saying Mike Tyson sucks cuz he cant dance, its not really his job.

[bacardimayne]

I just think it's ridiculous when Elvis gets compared to the greats who actually created their music and helped shape the history of music. Elvis was just a pretty face who sang black music.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I just think it's ridiculous when Elvis gets compared to the greats who actually created their music and helped shape the history of music. Elvis was just a pretty face who sang black music.

A singer singing a song is not the same as when an author writes a book and they put his name on the title, songs are bought and sold and covered and sung and re-sung, a singers job is to sing, if he can write then its another string to his bow but it ain't essential, its not even important.

And he sung all kinds of music man.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Elvis was a fucking hack. Never wrote a song in his life. If he didn't exist, someone else would've been Elvis. MJ was one of a kind.

You always make that point - in that case who would have "been Elvis"?

And MJ didn't write much of Off The Wall and Thriller.

MJ wrote about half to 2/3 of those albums, including billie jean and beat it. But yes thats another reason why I put MJ a head of Elvis. Elvis imo was more a product of his time then the other 5 on my list. If Elvis hadn't gotten all the attention, then it would of been Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, or someone else. Elvis didn't get the attention he got because he was a great singer or musician, he got it because girls thought he was hot. Sad but true.

I respect the mans achieviements, other wise I wouldn't of put him in my top 5 of the 20th century, but having said that, he is by FAR the least talented or deserving on that list. Honestly, I think Chuck Berry Little Richard and others were 10 times better than Elvis, but Elvis was white. As far as his music goes, I can't stand most of it. In the ghetto, susupious minds, and I can't help falling in love are the only three I can stand. Hound dog and jail house rock and all those early tunes just don't do it for me. Not compared to the music Chuck Berry was making at the same time. Johnny B. Goode is better than anything Elvis ever did imo. So is you never can tell.

When compared to MJ, I will take MJ any day of the week and twice on sunday over Elvis, but thats just my opinion. Like I said before, if you want to put Elvis at #2, thats fine. But it still doesn't change the fact that MJ was one of the 5 "greatest" of the 20th century.

[dalsh327]

Elvis was from an era where people brought songs to them to record, the only thing people complained about was Parker forcing them to give songwriting credit to him and putting it in Elvis' name. He played piano on the sessions and was active in how the songs were arranged.

A lot of singer-songwriters never liked the process, and most of the time, they were happy when someone covered their songs.

How many has Axl written on his own without any help? How many cover songs have GNR done that are part of the set, 5 on average?

[Johnny Drama]

Elvis was a fucking hack. Never wrote a song in his life. If he didn't exist, someone else would've been Elvis. MJ was one of a kind.

You always make that point - in that case who would have "been Elvis"?

And MJ didn't write much of Off The Wall and Thriller.

MJ wrote about half to 2/3 of those albums, including billie jean and beat it. But yes thats another reason why I put MJ a head of Elvis. Elvis imo was more a product of his time then the other 5 on my list. If Elvis hadn't gotten all the attention, then it would of been Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, or someone else. Elvis didn't get the attention he got because he was a great singer or musician, he got it because girls thought he was hot. Sad but true.

I respect the mans achieviements, other wise I wouldn't of put him in my top 5 of the 20th century, but having said that, he is by FAR the least talented or deserving on that list. Honestly, I think Chuck Berry Little Richard and others were 10 times better than Elvis, but Elvis was white. As far as his music goes, I can't stand most of it. In the ghetto, susupious minds, and I can't help falling in love are the only three I can stand. Hound dog and jail house rock and all those early tunes just don't do it for me. Not compared to the music Chuck Berry was making at the same time. Johnny B. Goode is better than anything Elvis ever did imo. So is you never can tell.

When compared to MJ, I will take MJ any day of the week and twice on sunday over Elvis, but thats just my opinion. Like I said before, if you want to put Elvis at #2, thats fine. But it still doesn't change the fact that MJ was one of the 5 "greatest" of the 20th century.

Don't get me wrong man. MJ is my favourite solo artist hands down. But I just think Elvis' is being looked at in a very modern way and out of the context of his time.

[Guest Len B'stard]

And even outside of that though, what rulebook does it say that you have to write your own songs? This is a new concept that has come about in the last few decades out of nowhere by a bunch of people that suddenly started taking pop music too seriously and acting like it's 'art' or whatever, fuck that, you're a singer, your job is to sing, whoever wrote it. I mean, y'know, kudos if you did write it but at the same time, it shouldn't detract from your thing if you happen to be singing someone elses song, not everyone is blessed with the ability or even the inclination to sing, some people write songs and thats ALL they do, now some fuckers gotta sing em, ain't they?

And also, sometimes, the best interpreter of songs isn't the writer of em. I mean Pete Townshend wrote 99% of The Who's songs but he weren't the best interpreter of them, it took Daltrey to make em what they are.

[Iron MikeyJ]

And even outside of that though, what rulebook does it say that you have to write your own songs? This is a new concept that has come about in the last few decades out of nowhere by a bunch of people that suddenly started taking pop music too seriously and acting like it's 'art' or whatever, fuck that, you're a singer, your job is to sing, whoever wrote it. I mean, y'know, kudos if you did write it but at the same time, it shouldn't detract from your thing if you happen to be singing someone elses song, not everyone is blessed with the ability or even the inclination to sing, some people write songs and thats ALL they do, now some fuckers gotta sing em, ain't they?

And also, sometimes, the best interpreter of songs isn't the writer of em. I mean Pete Townshend wrote 99% of The Who's songs but he weren't the best interpreter of them, it took Daltrey to make em what they are.

I agree to certain point. If you are a great singer, then yes thats what you do. Whitney Houston didn't write any of her songs, but she still sang the shit out of them.

But Elvis is supposed to be the "king of rock n roll". And rock is different than pop. Even though rock was pop in his day, things changed, even when he was alive. Rock artists are supposed to write their own material, its what you do. By 1965, the beatles would of made Elvis look like a dinosaur. Even though Elvis was really only ten years or so into his career. Why did they make him look like a dino? Because they wrote their own music. So did Elvis peers, Chuch Berry for example.

Again I'm not trying to knock his accomplishments, but you can't have it all. You are either the king of rock or you are not. Was he rock, country, or pop? Which if he is considered rock he should of written his own stuff imo. The country and pop I will give you, because most of those artists don't write. It just seems like people like to make a lot of excusses for him. "It was a different time" "He was just a singer" and what not. You are either the king or you are not, I'm sorry but the evidence points to no. But he still belongs in the top 5.

[Guest Len B'stard]

But see, thats not true, that aint written nowhere, that rock musicians gotta write their own tunes, this is just some bullshit dreamt up later in the day, the vast majority of em in the beginning didn't write their own shit.

I don't think they made him look like a dinosaur cuz they wrote their own songs, i think they made him look like a dinosaur because they represented a generation that he had become remote to. Was he rock, country or pop? Well pop and country and rock aren't indivisible...and certainly weren't then but to answer your question he was all of those and more, he was gospel too, thats kinda what rock was as a genre, an amalgamation of all of those aspects.

This is an absolute falsehood, this idea that rock artists are supposed to write their own matierial cuz they're not. The creators of it didn't all write their own matierial, the people at the roots of it didn't all write their own matierial, it just so happens that along with popular mainstream success comes the intellectualisation of what was basically a blue collar sock-hop ball dance thing, it's music to go shake your worries away over on a Saturday night, it's the people that wanna turn it into some kinda art, your middle class suburban audience that are all into intellectualising this shit and readying it for it's future as a museum piece that give birth to these high fallutin ideas about authorship.

Also, you gotta remember, there was no blueprint for Elvis, this wasn't some well tread path with all these defined parameters were, OK, you gotta do this and this and this, the rulebook was wrote off of Elvises back.

And i further disagree with this idea that people make excuses for him, he made rock n roll what it is today, there is nothing that he needs to be excused for, The Beatles, The Stones, a lot of these guys exist because Elvis existed. You can't go around imposing your own rules and ideas on something that isn't yours or doesn't belong to you.

The Beatles and the resultant intellectualising of music by way of this incredulousness at the phenomenon has given way to this idea in peoples head that authorship means something cuz they're trying to make rock n roll into something more grand than it was.

When millions upon millions of people latch onto this thing that the establishment considered moronic and dead-headed and symptomatic of the decay of society it's merits become difficult to ignore and people get all tied up into this hype and think, y'know, wow, this is more than pop music, it's a cultural phenomenon, look how many people are into it, it cant just be about sex, getting loaded, cars and a good time, we've gotta make it about something more...and in the process detracting from and ignoring the boring old things that made this genre great in the first place.

And the conclusion of that is the ruination of it, you have all these stuck up arseholes like Eric Clapton doing these gigs where people come to stare at them in wonderment at the 'art' unfolding before their eyes, it lead ultimately to the death of rock n roll, this intellectualising of it, it became like a college boys thing and your average person on the street just turn to whatever it is that is making the kids move on their given day.

Rock n Roll is dead now and it is due in no small part to the sort of uptightness that demands that 'you gotta write your own songs maaan' or 'wow, that guitar player sucks, he's so sloppy' and etc and so forth. Rock n roll was a thing any kid could learn a few chords and throw together a band and get up onstage come the weekends and have a good time with, that was the beauty of it, was inclusive and it was blue collar and it was of the people and for the people, all this shit that came later, all these rules like you gotta be able to play like Segovia or you ain't a credible guitarists or you gotta be an author on some level or you gotta like, expand or build on it or take it in some kinda niche direction or break out the cowbells and sitars and all this shit, it's all wonderful stuff in it's context but this idea that one should then go off and construct this rulebook over it is just...a little disingenuous.

Rock n roll ain't about seeing Emily play or stairways to heaven or goblins or concept albums about a boy born inside a giant shoe called Magoo, it's about:

Edited September 11, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Iron MikeyJ]

Ok Ok, I see your point, I even agree with a lot of it. But I am allowed (as a music fan) to have certain standards that I hold musicians to. Is it fair? Probably not, but then again nobodys lineing up to hear my opinons on the topic either. My point? I feel it is knock against him because he didn't write. You feel it shouldn't be a knock. It's not a matter of who's right or who's wrong, it's a matter of prefrance. It's all subjective, which is something that gets lost in discusion sometimes (but thats a different topic all together.)

And I did have him at #3 Lenny. I didn't give him the shaft, just not my cup of tea.

BTW I liked what you said about guitar players. Some of these guys are so damn good and technical but have no idea about "feel" or "soul". It sorta takes the fun out of the music imo.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Mike420

[Guest Len B'stard]

Oh definitely man, thats just how i see things, everybody has their own thing and that

[DieselDaisy]

The reason The Beatles made Presley look a 'dinosaur' is because Elvis was stuck in movie hell during the era of Beatlemania. In 1965, the year of such Beatles masterworks as Help and Rubber Soul, Elvis completed the following films: Tickle Me, Girl Happy and Harum Scarum (my favourite, involving Elvis dressed as Sinbad, with a turban!). If Elvis came out of the army and continued with the music he produced 1955-9, he would have maintained his credibility and may have competed with The Beatles on something like a level playing field. And the omens were good. In 1960, Elvis produced an incredible album called Elvis is Back; yes it branchs out into the slick mainstream ('It's Now or Never', 'Soldier Boy' - all quality mind) but it also contains two of Elvis's greatest blues performances: 'Reconsider Baby' and 'Like A Baby'. If he continued to proudce albums like this, he would have retained his credibility. As it was, Presley handed everything over to The Beatles by deciding to do horrid films.

And there was plenty of people who would have welcomed tough rock n' roll music again. Just look at Britain's Rockers (the British version of the Hells Angels, ex Teds who had swapped the switchknife andn edwardian clothing for motorbikes and leathers). They hated the 'fackin moptops' and were stuck in a late '50s Americana time warp. They yearned for 'the return of The King'. But it never really came, well, not until 1968 when Presley got the leathers on, got back with Scotty and co., and gave us an incredible tv special.

Edited September 12, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[Towelie]

3. Elvis (im sorry but MJ has more quality tunes imo. But if you want him 2nd thats fine)

Mike, Mike, Mike...hold up here, hold up one second! MJ's solo work couldn't fill a 50 track songlist with 10 out of 10 A+ tracks. Elvis can...and probably more than once.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/50-Greatest-Hits-Elvis-Presley/dp/B000053HKY

There ain't one song there that ain't a 10 out of 10 belter. Now show me the Jacko equivalent. It ain't there man. The King don't get enough respect these days, the sexy motherfucker

sugaraylen, on 10 Sept 2013 - 4:12 PM, said:

Bullshit.

Don't Stop Til You Get Enough

Rock With You

Working Day & Night

Get On The Floor

Off The Wall

Burn This Disco Out

Say Say Say

Billie Jean

Beat It

Human Nature

Wanna Be Starting Somethin

Thriller

Bad

The Way You Make Me Feel

Liberian Girl

Another Part Of Me

Man In The Mirror

Dirty Diana

Smooth Criminal

Leave Me Alone

In The Closet

Remember The Time

Heal The World

Who Is It

Give Into Me

Will You Be There

Keep The Faith

Dangerous

Scream

They Don't Care About Us

Stranger In Moscow

Earth Song

Money

Tabloid Junkie

History

Little Susie

Morphine

Blood. On The Dancefloor

Ghosts

Is It Scary

Unbreakable

Speechless

You Rock My World

Butterflies

Whatever Happens

We've Had Enough

Escape

Behind The Mask

Hollywood Tonight

These are all what I would consider A grade 10/10 tracks. This list doesn't include some of his underrated Motown solo albums (One Day In Your Life, Music & Me, You Are There), his work with the Jackson 5, some of the brilliant albums from The Jacksons (songs like Dancing Machine, Shake Your Body, Can You Feel It are timeless). There's also a tonne of stellar album tracks not included on this list, plus an additional.five number one singles.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Towelie

[Guest Len B'stard]

With all due respect Towelie thats just a Jacko fans list really, isn't it? Whereas The Elvis 50 are bona fide classics, the sort of songs that you don't even have to've heard of Elvis and still recognise them. I mean 'You Rock My World', really?

The reason The Beatles made Presley look a 'dinosaur' is because Elvis was stuck in movie hell during the era of Beatlemania. In 1965, the year of such Beatles masterworks as Help and Rubber Soul, Elvis completed the following films: Tickle Me, Girl Happy and Harum Scarum (my favourite, involving Elvis dressed as Sinbad, with a turban!). If Elvis came out of the army and continued with the music he produced 1955-9, he would have maintained his credibility and may have competed with The Beatles on something like a level playing field. And the omens were good. In 1960, Elvis produced an incredible album called Elvis is Back; yes it branchs out into the slick mainstream ('It's Now or Never', 'Soldier Boy' - all quality mind) but it also contains two of Elvis's greatest blues performances: 'Reconsider Baby' and 'Like A Baby'. If he continued to proudce albums like this, he would have retained his credibility. As it was, Presley handed everything over to The Beatles by deciding to do horrid films.

And there was plenty of people who would have welcomed tough rock n' roll music again. Just look at Britain's Rockers (the British version of the Hells Angels, ex Teds who had swapped the switchknife andn edwardian clothing for motorbikes and leathers). They hated the 'fackin moptops' and were stuck in a late '50s Americana time warp. They yearned for 'the return of The King'. But it never really came, well, not until 1968 when Presley got the leathers on, got back with Scotty and co., and gave us an incredible tv special.

I loved Elvises films, even though I agree with what you're saying just on a personal level i found them thoroughly enjoyable. And they weren't all awful as pieces of cinema either, Love Me Tender, King Creole, Flaming Star, Kid Galahad, there were some pretty fair movies in there. King Creole was written for James Dean originally. Oh and how could i forget Jailhouse Rock, probably the best of my bunch. Or my favorite at least.

[Dazey]

With all due respect Towelie thats just a Jacko fans list really, isn't it? Whereas The Elvis 50 are bona fide classics, the sort of songs that you don't even have to've heard of Elvis and still recognise them. I mean 'You Rock My World', really?

Earth Song?????????????????? Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahhahahhhhahhahahahhahahahhaahahahhahahahhaahahaahahhahahhahhahahahahhahahaa!

[DR DOOM]

DOOM SCOFFS AT THE SUGGESTION OF ELVIS MOVIES NOT BEING AWFUL

DOOM MUST ALSO CONCEDE THE KING'S RECONSIDER BABY CHANGED HIS OPINION ON EP.

EDIT: DOOM LOVES EARTH SONG

Edited September 12, 2013 by DR DOOM