Show thread April 23rd, 2014 - Golden Gods - Los Angeles, CA - Axl receives "Ronnie James Dio Lifetime Achievement Award"

[Amir]

I've seen diehard football fans be much more critical of the teams they support. They're not afraid to call out players and managers for their mistakes or lack of ability. Why is that verboten when it comes to music?

Aye, football fans are no better

I lived in Leeds and experienced their fans at their worst. Just as bad, and really, an excellent example

I also live east of Stratford near the West Ham ground, and got attacked by West Ham fans leaving a game at Upton Park.

I'm not encouraging hooliganism among GNR fans But I had a mate who was/is a big Arsenal fan, and while he would be hesitant to admit a decline as it was beginning, when Arsenal was doing terribly he would admit it. I can forgive a Rio '11 or a Bridge School here or there, especially in the case of the latter where he decided not to cancel a benefit performance despite being sick. But shows like Rio '14 where Axl looked like he just rolled out of bed and hadn't done any prep since the end of the 2013 tour really test my patience.

I posted back in January that I was getting annoyed at all the negativity here but after Rio '14 I just snapped. I really could not defend this circus act any more. It's telling that every single positive since 2011 (return of Estranged, Civil War, 14 Years with Izzy, Duff) has been oldGNR-related.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Amir

[Mysteron]

The funny thing is that these Axl worshippers get really offended like "angelsecrets" who can't stand the idea that someone criticizes their favourite singer..I myself like Axl and his voice/lyrics/stage presence etc. but I'm not completely blind what is happening here like what happened yesterday..I think it's a good thing to say when Axl has had bad performances and point out how to improve cause we all love him and wish him the best..

Here, it is unreadable because posters want this person sacked, this persons leaving, this person fat, waffle abour rasp and mickey mouse? Genuinely, it is a disgrace to the bands history, and also a disgrace to how the band is represented now on the internet.

Sorry, but get real. There's absolutely zero, zip, nada, zilch to be positive about in GnR world right now, the forum is

just reflecting that. Put on a shitty, lacklustre performance and that's what kind of reaction you'll get. It's not like everyone

is negative all the time. Sure, some are, but I didn't go into the Golden Gods stream looking for a train wreck (yes, I knew it

could happen), I was hoping Axl and the band could put out a respectable effort, they didn't. People can spin it any way they

want, but if you let 10 GnR-neutral people watch that they're all going to laugh and shake their head.

But it is a band almost 30 years in the making. You eventually have to get realistic about things

[Jordan Rose]

Axl is getting older day to day?

Yeah, so are Steven Tyler, Springsteen, Jagger, Dickinson....

Mysteron you're being a noob.

He didn't age 25 years between 2010 and 2011. He gave up giving a fuck.

[dufforever]

i think that's true.

[Mysteron]

I've seen diehard football fans be much more critical of the teams they support. They're not afraid to call out players and managers for their mistakes or lack of ability. Why is that verboten when it comes to music?

Aye, football fans are no better

I lived in Leeds and experienced their fans at their worst. Just as bad, and really, an excellent example

I also live east of Stratford near the West Ham ground, and got attacked by West Ham fans leaving a game at Upton Park.

I'm not encouraging hooliganism among GNR fans But I had a mate who was/is a big Arsenal fan, and while he would be hesitant to admit a decline as it was beginning, when Arsenal was doing terribly he would admit it. I can forgive a Rio '11 or a Bridge School here or there, especially in the case of the latter where he decided not to cancel a benefit performance for a charitable cause. But shows like Rio '14 where Axl looked like he just rolled out of bed and hadn't done any prep since the end of the 2013 tour really test my patience.

Arsenal were unlucky this year. Without the injuries, they would have kept up a challenge.

I just want people to see the good sometimes in GN'R. Respect where they have come from rather than where they may be going. You have to do that sometimes in life. I watched a little bit of yesterdays awards, and liked it. I had a 15 minute window to watch the best of the highlights, I came to the forums to see what the fans liked the most, and all I read is crap

As a fan, I should be getting that information from here

[Jordan Rose]

Amir, assuming nothing changes performance-wise during the residency and they don't play Madagascar at all, will you concede that it's maybe because he can't honestly sing it and mean it anymore?

I've seen diehard football fans be much more critical of the teams they support. They're not afraid to call out players and managers for their mistakes or lack of ability. Why is that verboten when it comes to music?

Aye, football fans are no better

I lived in Leeds and experienced their fans at their worst. Just as bad, and really, an excellent example

I also live east of Stratford near the West Ham ground, and got attacked by West Ham fans leaving a game at Upton Park.

I'm not encouraging hooliganism among GNR fans But I had a mate who was/is a big Arsenal fan, and while he would be hesitant to admit a decline as it was beginning, when Arsenal was doing terribly he would admit it. I can forgive a Rio '11 or a Bridge School here or there, especially in the case of the latter where he decided not to cancel a benefit performance for a charitable cause. But shows like Rio '14 where Axl looked like he just rolled out of bed and hadn't done any prep since the end of the 2013 tour really test my patience.

Arsenal were unlucky this year. Without the injuries, they would have kept up a challenge.

I just want people to see the good sometimes in GN'R. Respect where they have come from rather than where they may be going. You have to do that sometimes in life. I watched a little bit of yesterdays awards, and liked it. I had a 15 minute window to watch the best of the highlights, I came to the forums to see what the fans liked the most, and all I read is crap

As a fan, I should be getting that information from here

You ought to be getting it from the official site/board but that's just one of the everythings they've managed to wank up.

[DangerousCurves]

Duff was the coolest motherfucker in the house last night.

[Schwarzgold]

But it is a band almost 30 years in the making. You eventually have to get realistic about things

... meaning? There are plenty of bands in their 30s now and they are productive.

I fully understand that we'll never see again a high-jumoing, heroin-slim Axl again - that's realistic, agreed. And it's totally fine. I'd be really happy, for example, if the created a cool, mellow acoustic album, or whatever. If realism means not to dream of re-living yesterday's glory and style, okay.

But acceptiung that now music is released, that no real communication is happening and the the performances would be lacklustre even if they were given by a SIXTYtwo year old Axl? That's not realism, that would be ... generosity. It's okay if one wants to do this, but don't call it "being realistic" as if we all had to agree upon this point of view due to common sense.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Schwarzgold

[dufforever]

Duff is the coolest motherfucker in whatever house.

[angelsecrets]

Axl voice has been cyclical in the past...the builds up, blows it, builds it up again.

Sometimes I wonder if he is not waiting for it to "return" before getting in the studio to record something. Only this time, due to his age and probable lack of fitness, it's not happening as it did in 2006 and 2010. It's taking longer, or simply no happening. Just a theory.

Axl is getting older day to day

The funny thing is that these Axl worshippers get really offended like "angelsecrets" who can't stand the idea that someone criticizes their favourite singer..I myself like Axl and his voice/lyrics/stage presence etc. but I'm not completely blind what is happening here like what happened yesterday..I think it's a good thing to say when Axl has had bad performances and point out how to improve cause we all love him and wish him the best..

The concept of a fan forum is that people who -like- the band post, and that is the way it was 10-15 years ago for older posters. There were negatives, but they were sidenotes.

The band has been going for almost 30 years, they are old band. They may never release an album again, but they reserve the right to tour and tour again with the material already recorded. Many bands do it. If they release a new album, then great.

Alot of the GN'R forums have turned into Wonderland freakshows. Jarmo is battling on his forum day to day. Here, it is unreadable because posters want this person sacked, this persons leaving, this person fat, waffle abour rasp and mickey mouse? Genuinely, it is a disgrace to the bands history, and also a disgrace to how the band is represented now on the internet. Any journalist writing an article will come here and think it is fine to write a bad article because they will see the fans are not caring about the band anymore, which is untrue. The true fans just cannot be bothered posting anymore.

For me, most of the forums have become about the posters, not about the band, and it is sad to see, but what can you do

So a fan forum is supposed to only allow positive comments so journalist can come here and write good things about Guns N' Roses? Wtf?

No, of course not.

But, if I was a casual fan of the current band, and I came here to say, hey I enjoyed a concert I went to yesterday, the posts here would put me off.

Remember, a couple of hundred post, but hundreds of thousands, millions, attend the concerts around the world. 99% of people who see GN'R do not post

Well said! On that note, I think it's time to find another place to find nicer fans. Thanks for all the updates & links.

[Amir]

Ya well maybe he does read all this shit and it does affect him one way or another? I dunno, it's way too negative on here & obviously people really don't care. Band or not, he is still a person... just like you & I folks.

I do agree it's a shame about the name-calling and jeering because it further fosters that us vs. them, fans vs. haters mentality that exists in the Axl/TB camp. But it also means that any constructive criticism gets lost in a sea of insults and bile. There's a reason Axl lurks here rather than HTGTH, he knows it's just a circlejerk over there and always will be as long as Jarmo is on his payroll.

This HRS story is one that I believe to be true because it explains a lot about Axl (posted it before but it's relevant):

"i met del once, on the same night i met axl. beverly hills walk of style awards, after playing a small acoustic set. i talked to axl for twenty minutes or so. he was surprisingly candid, talking about frustrations he felt from the record label and resentment he felt towards fans and how they're unfairly critical of him. he talked about being crushingly depressed to the point where he didn't want to leave his house, but he seemed in high spirits that night. he was laughing and seemed to enjoy sharing his thoughts. but del kept interrupting axl, trying to stop him from talking to me. he kept inviting axl to join him in another conversation, and axl would tell him he'd be there in a minute. the third or fourth time del interrupted, axl snapped at him. just told him to buzz off and that he'd find him when he was done. del was absolutely not friendly to me. he would only look angrily in my direction."

"by no means do i think axl was interested in me. he was interested in talking about himself, which he did. i was just someone who listened. i also told him fans resentment made total sense to me, but that it was a product of their love for him, not hate. i explained how as fans, right or wrong, we bond with the art that speaks to us and for us, and the artist who creates it plays a role in our imaginations. especially when we're young. that emotional investment is a double-edged sword though. and i told him how when he vanished and seemingly showed contempt for everyone who loved his stuff, people can't help but feel disappointed or spurned or even insulted. their "hate" was just the obvious and realistic flip side of their love. he heard that and nodded and said he'd never really considered that."

The guy just straight up doesn't understand that being critical doesn't equate to being hateful or spiteful.

I just want people to see the good sometimes in GN'R. Respect where they have come from rather than where they may be going. You have to do that sometimes in life. I watched a little bit of yesterdays awards, and liked it. I had a 15 minute window to watch the best of the highlights, I came to the forums to see what the fans liked the most, and all I read is crap

I do too, but you really have to grasp at straws these days. I had a fun time at the Buenos Aires show but that was mostly because of Duff and the insane SA crowd. Axl gave a decent performance but he lacked that edge and passion that really made the 2010 shows and the 2012 Atlantic City show special for me.

Amir, assuming nothing changes performance-wise during the residency and they don't play Madagascar at all, will you concede that it's maybe because he can't honestly sing it and mean it anymore?

Don't think I've ever disputed that? I do think it's more that it's technically too difficult for him, and also that he sang it at almost every show from Rio 2001 to the 2012 Vegas Residency.

[Pedrolg]

I've seen diehard football fans be much more critical of the teams they support. They're not afraid to call out players and managers for their mistakes or lack of ability. Why is that verboten when it comes to music?

Aye, football fans are no better

I lived in Leeds and experienced their fans at their worst. Just as bad, and really, an excellent example

I also live east of Stratford near the West Ham ground, and got attacked by West Ham fans leaving a game at Upton Park.

Axl is kinda like Ronaldinho. Extremely talented, accomplished a lot, has been on the top the world. However, did not stay there for as long as he could, and once he took the first step down, the other steps became increasingly more frequent, and the interval between them increasingly shorter.

Ronaldinho is today an aging star, one that clearly does not put all the effort he could, doesn't try different things and is a shell of his former self. He does however, still show glimpses of brilliance, even though they get less frequent each week, and that still draws the media and the crowds. Axl is exactly the same.

I understand where you come from, Mysteron. Criticism here towards Axl is often very offensive, personal and intrusive. However, it's not the place of a true fan to validate everything the band does, when it's crystal clear that they are steering away from what GNR must be, from the quality that the name commands.

By drawing a comparison to a footballer, what I mean is: just as with an athlete, regarding Axl, it's not about seeing him return to the early 90's form, that it's obviously not going to happen. It is possible that physical constraints prevent him even from going back to 2011 (later, after RIR) level.

Still, it is about putting himself on the optimal conditions to provide the best delivery he possibly can with the tools he currently has. Unless there is a massive health related thing going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, it's is delusional to think he is doing that. And really, he has to, for his name, for his legacy, for his fans, for his bandmates (who, according to himself, supported him when he needed them).

[darknightfan]

Axl voice has been cyclical in the past...the builds up, blows it, builds it up again.

Sometimes I wonder if he is not waiting for it to "return" before getting in the studio to record something. Only this time, due to his age and probable lack of fitness, it's not happening as it did in 2006 and 2010. It's taking longer, or simply no happening. Just a theory.

Axl is getting older day to day

The funny thing is that these Axl worshippers get really offended like "angelsecrets" who can't stand the idea that someone criticizes their favourite singer..I myself like Axl and his voice/lyrics/stage presence etc. but I'm not completely blind what is happening here like what happened yesterday..I think it's a good thing to say when Axl has had bad performances and point out how to improve cause we all love him and wish him the best..

The concept of a fan forum is that people who -like- the band post, and that is the way it was 10-15 years ago for older posters. There were negatives, but they were sidenotes.

The band has been going for almost 30 years, they are old band. They may never release an album again, but they reserve the right to tour and tour again with the material already recorded. Many bands do it. If they release a new album, then great.

Alot of the GN'R forums have turned into Wonderland freakshows. Jarmo is battling on his forum day to day. Here, it is unreadable because posters want this person sacked, this persons leaving, this person fat, waffle abour rasp and mickey mouse? Genuinely, it is a disgrace to the bands history, and also a disgrace to how the band is represented now on the internet. Any journalist writing an article will come here and think it is fine to write a bad article because they will see the fans are not caring about the band anymore, which is untrue. The true fans just cannot be bothered posting anymore.

For me, most of the forums have become about the posters, not about the band, and it is sad to see, but what can you do

So a fan forum is supposed to only allow positive comments so journalist can come here and write good things about Guns N' Roses? Wtf?

No, of course not.

But, if I was a casual fan of the current band, and I came here to say, hey I enjoyed a concert I went to yesterday, the posts here would put me off.

Remember, a couple of hundred post, but hundreds of thousands, millions, attend the concerts around the world. 99% of people who see GN'R do not post

I don't think there are any casual fans here.

[RussTCB]

Axl voice has been cyclical in the past...the builds up, blows it, builds it up again.

Sometimes I wonder if he is not waiting for it to "return" before getting in the studio to record something. Only this time, due to his age and probable lack of fitness, it's not happening as it did in 2006 and 2010. It's taking longer, or simply no happening. Just a theory.

Axl is getting older day to day

The funny thing is that these Axl worshippers get really offended like "angelsecrets" who can't stand the idea that someone criticizes their favourite singer..I myself like Axl and his voice/lyrics/stage presence etc. but I'm not completely blind what is happening here like what happened yesterday..I think it's a good thing to say when Axl has had bad performances and point out how to improve cause we all love him and wish him the best..

The concept of a fan forum is that people who -like- the band post, and that is the way it was 10-15 years ago for older posters. There were negatives, but they were sidenotes.

The band has been going for almost 30 years, they are old band. They may never release an album again, but they reserve the right to tour and tour again with the material already recorded. Many bands do it. If they release a new album, then great.

Alot of the GN'R forums have turned into Wonderland freakshows. Jarmo is battling on his forum day to day. Here, it is unreadable because posters want this person sacked, this persons leaving, this person fat, waffle abour rasp and mickey mouse? Genuinely, it is a disgrace to the bands history, and also a disgrace to how the band is represented now on the internet. Any journalist writing an article will come here and think it is fine to write a bad article because they will see the fans are not caring about the band anymore, which is untrue. The true fans just cannot be bothered posting anymore.

For me, most of the forums have become about the posters, not about the band, and it is sad to see, but what can you do

So a fan forum is supposed to only allow positive comments so journalist can come here and write good things about Guns N' Roses? Wtf?

No, of course not.

But, if I was a casual fan of the current band, and I came here to say, hey I enjoyed a concert I went to yesterday, the posts here would put me off.

Remember, a couple of hundred post, but hundreds of thousands, millions, attend the concerts around the world. 99% of people who see GN'R do not post

Well said! On that note, I think it's time to find another place to find nicer fans. Thanks for all the updates & links.

People are allowed to have their opinions and they're not always going to be positive.

The problem at hand currently is that the band, actually Axl specifically, is making itself way too easy of a target for negativity.

[dufforever]

Axl voice has been cyclical in the past...the builds up, blows it, builds it up again.

Sometimes I wonder if he is not waiting for it to "return" before getting in the studio to record something. Only this time, due to his age and probable lack of fitness, it's not happening as it did in 2006 and 2010. It's taking longer, or simply no happening. Just a theory.

Axl is getting older day to day

The funny thing is that these Axl worshippers get really offended like "angelsecrets" who can't stand the idea that someone criticizes their favourite singer..I myself like Axl and his voice/lyrics/stage presence etc. but I'm not completely blind what is happening here like what happened yesterday..I think it's a good thing to say when Axl has had bad performances and point out how to improve cause we all love him and wish him the best..

The concept of a fan forum is that people who -like- the band post, and that is the way it was 10-15 years ago for older posters. There were negatives, but they were sidenotes.

The band has been going for almost 30 years, they are old band. They may never release an album again, but they reserve the right to tour and tour again with the material already recorded. Many bands do it. If they release a new album, then great.

Alot of the GN'R forums have turned into Wonderland freakshows. Jarmo is battling on his forum day to day. Here, it is unreadable because posters want this person sacked, this persons leaving, this person fat, waffle abour rasp and mickey mouse? Genuinely, it is a disgrace to the bands history, and also a disgrace to how the band is represented now on the internet. Any journalist writing an article will come here and think it is fine to write a bad article because they will see the fans are not caring about the band anymore, which is untrue. The true fans just cannot be bothered posting anymore.

For me, most of the forums have become about the posters, not about the band, and it is sad to see, but what can you do

So a fan forum is supposed to only allow positive comments so journalist can come here and write good things about Guns N' Roses? Wtf?

No, of course not.

But, if I was a casual fan of the current band, and I came here to say, hey I enjoyed a concert I went to yesterday, the posts here would put me off.

Remember, a couple of hundred post, but hundreds of thousands, millions, attend the concerts around the world. 99% of people who see GN'R do not post

I don't think there are any casual fans here.

i don't think so either.

not Axl fans.

if you get GNR to any degree,you're not normal.

[Jordan Rose]

The HRS story is incredibly insightful and also so sad because it basically means we're fucked. That was years ago and the criticism has reached an all-time high where even posters who previously defended him have given up. We know he's kept notes on posters for years and he's probably seen people slowly turn 'against him' from his perspective. If he was crushingly depressed then no wonder he just doesn't give a shit anymore.

[dufforever]

do u think he's depressed?

[Jordan Rose]

do u think he's depressed?

He was evasive about whether he's bi-polar/manic depressive in the '08 chats. Even if he hasn't suffered with actual clinical depression in the last 15 years (i'd say it's pretty certain he has) I think anyone would be bummed out by the label/biz's resistance to New Guns.

[dufforever]

i think that's true as well.

that anyone would be bummed by New Guns lack of acceptance.

peace,everyone.

i have stuff to take care of.

Edited April 24, 2014 by dufforever

[Cruel Intentions]

The thing that pisses me off most about Axl is that he's not trying. I mean, seriously. You can still hear that rasp from time to time, so he obviously can still sing even if he's not trying to exert himself every time he sings a high note. If he would get himself in better physically so that he wasn't so winded after every verse, I'm positive it would make him sound better and more natural. But it's very clear he doesn't care enough about it anymore at this point in his life. It's sad, and we'll obviously never know the real reasons why he doesn't commit himself to getting in better shape, but as long as he keeps selling tickets he has no reason to do anything differently, which is what I'm sure Beta and Co. are preaching to him.

[Mysteron]

There ya go again? Is Axl depressed? What does that have to do about anything

Get out there and see the band live. Whatever your Mickey Mouse, Raspy head is doing, there is nothing better than live music

Lordy, I saw Nirvana during their dodgepot period between Bleach and Nevermind, they were terrible, but they were awesome because it was live, I was there and it was great. I have seen Queen, The Who, Brucie Spongesteen, Patti Smith, Bon Jovi, Abba, Rolling Stones, lots of bands at their worst, but they were all awesome. Also Status Quo. and Def Leppard...and Iron Maiden, the legends. I have seen Pearl Jam be average, but also awesome. But average is awesome.

It is about the music.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Mysteron

[DangerousCurves]

Duff is the coolest motherfucker in whatever house.

Agreed.

[aranrod]

Duff is the coolest motherfucker in whatever house.

Agreed.

True.

[Chris 55]

Bono-

If it's the final nail in the coffin, same thing maybe it's time to move on for you. All your posts are the same shit, reunion, axl sucks, blabla, current gnr is a joke, blablabla, bono at the oscars, blabla.

I'm ok with the free speech or whatever, but can you just for a once say something nice, or just be realistic. It's over? Well, People at the show seemed to love it, and the show has great reviews. People still seem to care about this line up, and still want to see Axl no matter how good or bad his voice is.

Honestly dude STFU and call a spade a spade. What you're pissed about isn't me saying what I say it's that what I say is flat out fucking truth. deal with it.

Agreed Bono...Do you remember when Axl said in one of his rants that "Don't let anyone get in your way. Including me."? Well here I am not letting anyone getting in my way with my own opinions like you Bono..RESPECTS!!! Here is the rant..start at 2.45

Never got that "including me" bit.

[Millions]

The reaction from the fans on this forum is just hysterically over-the-top. It's just savage, wide-eyed, frothing at the mouth stuff.

But I suppose that feels more powerful somehow, than coming on here and saying 'well, it wasn't a great performance ...... it was just pretty average.'

A professional music journalist would never come out with this crap. They are professional, and write with different aims and values in mind - ie, convey ACCURATELY what a gig or album is like. The folk on this forum don't have that aim - they are trying to appear smart, funny, wise-ass, blah blah.......

So it seems to me that the best place to get an accurate feel of how the gig was received would be a more general music forum.

And you guys wonder why Axl isn't keen to release a sequel to Chinese Democracy.