Slash is sick of the media creating GNR conflict

[DieselDaisy]

Axl wants everything to be as huge as possible, biggest production possible, and the money is important to keep his spoiled lifestyle going. Slash wants to maintain his fan base and make as much money as possible. Izzy wants everything to be as easy as possible. It's good enough for him to release his shit on itunes. I think it's perfect for him actually, but maybe not to his fans. He doesn't even tour. He doesn't care enough about this shit to do more.

I think Izzy fans - unlike Axl fans - are fairly happy as their guy is on his eleventh album. Between 2005-2010 he released six albums!! Itunes allows him to get them out fast I suppose, cutting out the red tape, so, it was 'happy hour 'for his fans. (His 12th album is well over due but we got 'Baby Rann' and 'Upside' in 2012.)

The only complain his fans have is really, lack of touring; he last played live when he did some solo shows in Japan in 2000, with Duff on bass. Before then you have to go way back to the original Ju Ju Hounds world tour of 1992-3. Of course there are his guests with Axl but those are different. Yes, I would like him to play some shows occasionally. Ironic: Axl never releases material but tours constantly; Izzy releases material constantly but never tours.

[Rovim]

Axl wants everything to be as huge as possible, biggest production possible, and the money is important to keep his spoiled lifestyle going. Slash wants to maintain his fan base and make as much money as possible. Izzy wants everything to be as easy as possible. It's good enough for him to release his shit on itunes. I think it's perfect for him actually, but maybe not to his fans. He doesn't even tour. He doesn't care enough about this shit to do more.

I think Izzy fans - unlike Axl fans - are fairly happy as their guy is on his eleventh album. Between 2005-2010 he released six albums!! Itunes allows him to get them out fast I suppose, cutting out the red tape, so, it was 'happy hour 'for his fans. (His 12th album is well over due but we got 'Baby Rann' and 'Upside' in 2012.)

The only complain his fans have is really, lack of touring; he last played live when he did some solo shows in Japan in 2000, with Duff on bass. Before then you have to go way back to the original Ju Ju Hounds world tour of 1992-3. Of course there are his guests with Axl but those are different. Yes, I would like him to play some shows occasionally. Ironic: Axl never releases material but tours constantly; Izzy releases material constantly but never tours.

What is fairly happy to you? you can't even go to an Izzy show. Of course it's not as shitty as what Axl is offering which is one album in 23 years.

If you have to compare it to what Axl is doing, you know something is not quite ideal. Far from it. It's one complaint (not touring at all) but it is a big one.

Axl tours his ass off in recent years, but doesn't release enough music, Izzy doesn't tour, but releases many albums. Both are not enough imo. But I'll take what I can get.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

Axl wants everything to be as huge as possible, biggest production possible, and the money is important to keep his spoiled lifestyle going. Slash wants to maintain his fan base and make as much money as possible. Izzy wants everything to be as easy as possible. It's good enough for him to release his shit on itunes. I think it's perfect for him actually, but maybe not to his fans. He doesn't even tour. He doesn't care enough about this shit to do more.

I think Izzy fans - unlike Axl fans - are fairly happy as their guy is on his eleventh album. Between 2005-2010 he released six albums!! Itunes allows him to get them out fast I suppose, cutting out the red tape, so, it was 'happy hour 'for his fans. (His 12th album is well over due but we got 'Baby Rann' and 'Upside' in 2012.)

The only complain his fans have is really, lack of touring; he last played live when he did some solo shows in Japan in 2000, with Duff on bass. Before then you have to go way back to the original Ju Ju Hounds world tour of 1992-3. Of course there are his guests with Axl but those are different. Yes, I would like him to play some shows occasionally. Ironic: Axl never releases material but tours constantly; Izzy releases material constantly but never tours.

What is fairly happy to you? you can't even go to an Izzy show. Of course it's not as shitty as what Axl is offering which is one album in 23 years.

If you have to compare it to what Axl is doing, you know something is not quite ideal. Far from it. It's one complaint (not touring at all) but it is a big one.

Axl tours his ass off in recent years, but doesn't release enough music, Izzy doesn't tour, but releases many albums. Both are not enough imo. But I'll take what I can get.

Well, I did see him with Axl in 2006 - granted, he only played shitty GN'R songs and not his solo stuff (only joking).

I would be happier being an Izzy fan than an Axl. Thing is, the average person (i.e. not Powerage) might see their artist, once every three-six years if they are lucky. The majority of your listening experience therefore inherently concerns, listening to the albums - and here, Stradlin is so much more interesting an artist. I have potentially missed two or three Izzy gigs whereas, I have missed probably five-six Axl albums. Yes, I would much rather be in the Izzy fan's situation. Axl fans are a frustrated lot.

[Rovim]

Axl wants everything to be as huge as possible, biggest production possible, and the money is important to keep his spoiled lifestyle going. Slash wants to maintain his fan base and make as much money as possible. Izzy wants everything to be as easy as possible. It's good enough for him to release his shit on itunes. I think it's perfect for him actually, but maybe not to his fans. He doesn't even tour. He doesn't care enough about this shit to do more.

I think Izzy fans - unlike Axl fans - are fairly happy as their guy is on his eleventh album. Between 2005-2010 he released six albums!! Itunes allows him to get them out fast I suppose, cutting out the red tape, so, it was 'happy hour 'for his fans. (His 12th album is well over due but we got 'Baby Rann' and 'Upside' in 2012.)

The only complain his fans have is really, lack of touring; he last played live when he did some solo shows in Japan in 2000, with Duff on bass. Before then you have to go way back to the original Ju Ju Hounds world tour of 1992-3. Of course there are his guests with Axl but those are different. Yes, I would like him to play some shows occasionally. Ironic: Axl never releases material but tours constantly; Izzy releases material constantly but never tours.

What is fairly happy to you? you can't even go to an Izzy show. Of course it's not as shitty as what Axl is offering which is one album in 23 years.

If you have to compare it to what Axl is doing, you know something is not quite ideal. Far from it. It's one complaint (not touring at all) but it is a big one.

Axl tours his ass off in recent years, but doesn't release enough music, Izzy doesn't tour, but releases many albums. Both are not enough imo. But I'll take what I can get.

Well, I did see him with Axl in 2006 - granted, he only played shitty GN'R songs and not his solo stuff (only joking).

I would be happier being an Izzy fan than an Axl. Thing is, the average person (i.e. not Powerage) might see their artist, once every three-six years if they are lucky. The majority of your listening experience therefore inherently concerns, listening to the albums - and here, Stradlin is so much more interesting an artist. I have potentially missed two or three Izzy gigs whereas, I have missed probably five-six Axl albums. Yes, I would much rather be in the Izzy fan's situation. Axl fans are a frustrated lot.

Axl is not a good example. He's not a good artist to compare Izzy to imo. Compare Izzy with most artists, and it's fuckin' clear how shitty it is to not get to see him live as a fan. It's been 8 years since you saw him live. 8 years. That's a lot. If he was touring in your area in 2008 or whatever, you would have probably at least seriously considered going.

[dalsh327]

I'm wondering when Izzy quit, if they had to buy him out when he gave up his partnership, or he was still getting money from the UYI tour. Just because a band member isn't on the road with them doesn't mean they're not getting a cut, and that might have been why they were able to force Izzy back into GNR when Gilby couldn't play.

Sometimes it's being on the cover of a magazine without the bandmates that causes grudges. I think Duff and Izzy try to be objective when they talk about Axl and Slash, but it's also personal for them so it's kind of hard for them to be neutral. For now it's "we're buddies, good friends and we keep in touch".

I doubt Slash and Izzy were happy the day they saw this.

As far as Izzy touring, not touring, I'm sure Duff could answer that. He's probably tried to get Izzy to tour with Loaded and Walking Papers as well as hook up with KIngs of Chaos. If KOC played LA, Izzy probably would show up.

Edited September 1, 2014 by dalsh327

[wasted]

Izzy is anonymous to the mainstream, fans know him through GNR. Maybe a few people see a news bit about Izzy but I find it hard to believe people don't check him out for the ex-GNR ref.

I like Izzy songs more than Slash or Axl, Axl at his best probably beats him but he has so many songs. Axl has some big ones. But throwing out solo albums with no expectation is easier than living with the GNR back cat and living up to the name. CD had to be a lot of things. I still think even with Izzy and Slash in GNR they might have only put out one more record at this point as GNR. And that's what they didn't like GNR became a prison of expectations. They got out when they were legends and time froze. Who knew what uncool stuff lay ahead. Axl got a little taste of it.

[Rovim]

Izzy is anonymous to the mainstream, fans know him through GNR. Maybe a few people see a news bit about Izzy but I find it hard to believe people don't check him out for the ex-GNR ref.

I like Izzy songs more than Slash or Axl, Axl at his best probably beats him but he has so many songs. Axl has some big ones. But throwing out solo albums with no expectation is easier than living with the GNR back cat and living up to the name. CD had to be a lot of things. I still think even with Izzy and Slash in GNR they might have only put out one more record at this point as GNR. And that's what they didn't like GNR became a prison of expectations. They got out when they were legends and time froze. Who knew what uncool stuff lay ahead. Axl got a little taste of it.

To be totally honest with you, I'll take Chinese over all of Slash's and Izzy's albums combined. Even if it's just 14 songs (15 including Oh My God)

Axl has the real need to go big. You don't get those production values anywhere else. (talking about former Guns members) Even Slash's biggest project (Contraband) had shifty production, and it was fairly quickly put together.

[wasted]

Izzy is anonymous to the mainstream, fans know him through GNR. Maybe a few people see a news bit about Izzy but I find it hard to believe people don't check him out for the ex-GNR ref.

I like Izzy songs more than Slash or Axl, Axl at his best probably beats him but he has so many songs. Axl has some big ones. But throwing out solo albums with no expectation is easier than living with the GNR back cat and living up to the name. CD had to be a lot of things. I still think even with Izzy and Slash in GNR they might have only put out one more record at this point as GNR. And that's what they didn't like GNR became a prison of expectations. They got out when they were legends and time froze. Who knew what uncool stuff lay ahead. Axl got a little taste of it.

To be totally honest with you, I'll take Chinese over all of Slash's and Izzy's albums combined. Even if it's just 14 songs (15 including Oh My God)

Axl has the real need to go big. You don't get those production values anywhere else. (talking about former Guns members) Even Slash's biggest project (Contraband) had shifty production, and it was fairly quickly put together.

I'd probably take CD over all the solo projects and VR. But Izzy just churns out songs without trying, he's a natural.

I always think Jungle, Paradise City, SCOM and Rocket Queen are the songs Axl pushed to be more epic. I doubt Izzy was pushing for synths on PC. Or that last vocal outro Axl does on RQ, I doubt the band came up with that idea. Nobody was really bothered with doing SCOM in that way other than Axl, I doubt Slash was thinking best Skynard song we could do! from CD you can see what elements of GNR Axl brought. Nobodies done many piano ballads with huge guitar solos on the side projects. Fall to Pieces, Annatasia and By the Sword seem to be about as epic as it gets. There's no choirs or low talking really either. They need to take a choir on the road to do TWAT like the record.

Axl makes albums, Izzy writes songs. Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background. The ocean surf sample loop #294573

Edited September 2, 2014 by wasted

[Rovim]

Izzy is anonymous to the mainstream, fans know him through GNR. Maybe a few people see a news bit about Izzy but I find it hard to believe people don't check him out for the ex-GNR ref.

I like Izzy songs more than Slash or Axl, Axl at his best probably beats him but he has so many songs. Axl has some big ones. But throwing out solo albums with no expectation is easier than living with the GNR back cat and living up to the name. CD had to be a lot of things. I still think even with Izzy and Slash in GNR they might have only put out one more record at this point as GNR. And that's what they didn't like GNR became a prison of expectations. They got out when they were legends and time froze. Who knew what uncool stuff lay ahead. Axl got a little taste of it.

To be totally honest with you, I'll take Chinese over all of Slash's and Izzy's albums combined. Even if it's just 14 songs (15 including Oh My God)

Axl has the real need to go big. You don't get those production values anywhere else. (talking about former Guns members) Even Slash's biggest project (Contraband) had shifty production, and it was fairly quickly put together.

I'd probably take CD over all the solo projects and VR. But Izzy just churns out songs without trying, he's a natural.

I always think Jungle, Paradise City, SCOM and Rocket Queen are the songs Axl pushed to be more epic. I doubt Izzy was pushing for synths on PC. from CD you can see what elements of GNR Axl brought.

Axl makes albums, Izzy writes songs. Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background.

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Rovim

[dalsh327]

GNR built and climbed their own Mt Everest then took dynamite to it.

[JoGer99]

Didn't Axl & Duff try to get Izzy to perform in Vegas ?

[Crash Diet]

Didn't Axl & Duff try to get Izzy to perform in Vegas ?

Didn't Axl try to make the GNR name big again?

[Rovim]

Didn't Axl & Duff try to get Izzy to perform in Vegas ?

Didn't Axl try to make the GNR name big again?

Still trying. Round 1. Give the man some time. What's the hurry? Madagascar paved the way for 60 year old Axl. Singing Jungle live, fucking whores on viagra, and prank calling the I.R.S with The Beta giggling in the background even if she doesn't really find any of it funny.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

This,

Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background. The ocean surf sample loop #294573

and this,

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

is the sort of pretentious rubbish Guns N' Roses fans of the Axl persuasion seem to have convinced themselves into believing. Axl is not Roger Waters. If you listen to Chinese Democracy, an absolute mess of an album, it is clear that Axl has about as much clue about the direction of the album as you or I have; this accounts for all the aimless tinkering.

[Mr. Dude]

This,

Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background. The ocean surf sample loop #294573

and this,

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

is the sort of pretentious rubbish Guns N' Roses fans of the Axl persuasion seem to have convinced themselves into believing. Axl is not Roger Waters. If you listen to Chinese Democracy, an absolute mess of an album, it is clear that Axl has about as much clue about the direction of the album as you or I have; this accounts for all the aimless tinkering.

The main problem as far as reception goes is that Axl was trying to push the envelope to a point where a lot of the fanbase wouldn't understand it anyway. CD for example is not that radical of a departure from the Illusions. Its a continuation if anything. Still, for fans like you- where Estranged is too far out there for you, he was bound to lose some.

[DieselDaisy]

This,

Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background. The ocean surf sample loop #294573

and this,

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

is the sort of pretentious rubbish Guns N' Roses fans of the Axl persuasion seem to have convinced themselves into believing. Axl is not Roger Waters. If you listen to Chinese Democracy, an absolute mess of an album, it is clear that Axl has about as much clue about the direction of the album as you or I have; this accounts for all the aimless tinkering.

The main problem as far as reception goes is that Axl was trying to push the envelope to a point where a lot of the fanbase wouldn't understand it anyway. CD for example is not that radical of a departure from the Illusions. Its a continuation if anything. Still, for fans like you- where Estranged is too far out there for you, he was bound to lose some.

Most of Democracy is not, that 'far out' though. As I have said elsewhere, adding a load of beeps and farts to nu metal songs and ballads does not make you Trent or Roger Waters or Aphex Twin. Plus, no matter what, the music has to be good; some of the songs on Democracy were simply appalling in quality. No amount of overdubs can disguise this fact.

[Rovim]

This,

Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background. The ocean surf sample loop #294573

and this,

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

is the sort of pretentious rubbish Guns N' Roses fans of the Axl persuasion seem to have convinced themselves into believing. Axl is not Roger Waters. If you listen to Chinese Democracy, an absolute mess of an album, it is clear that Axl has about as much clue about the direction of the album as you or I have; this accounts for all the aimless tinkering.

No one said anything about Axl being Roger Waters. Stop putting words in my mouth. You don't like Chinese Democracy, I get it and I don't care. It is clear it doesn't have any grease at all. I didn't claim to know anything about the album. It was just my opinion on it. I like it, deal with it.

[DieselDaisy]

By all means, like the album. But do not pretend that Axl had some sort of 'vision' for this thing, anymore than Izzy has for his albums.

[Rovim]

By all means, like the album. But do not pretend that Axl had some sort of 'vision' for this thing, anymore than Izzy has for his albums.

But he did. Had to have a vision for this thing, cause he was the musical director of it. He was the leader of this project, even if you think it was a shitty ass vision, and a failure.

An artistic vision sounds like a big thing, but the way I see it, it's simply how an artist imagines a certain sound. What elements he thinks will work, and how he puts them together, so yes, Axl had a vision for Chinese, and in my opinion, like it or hate it, it was a pretty clear one. Just basing that on the songs. But thanks for giving me your permission to like it.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

He had no vision and the reason we know this is, he constantly messed with the songs for the best part of ten years and switched producers constantly. Just listen to the demos and the finished album. Ultimately, any vision he may have claimed at one period turned into flatulence.

[Mr. Dude]

He had no vision and the reason we know this is, he constantly messed with the songs for the best part of ten years and switched producers constantly. Just listen to the demos and the finished album. Ultimately, any vision he may have claimed at one period turned into flatulence.

The fact he tried so many different producers and musicians is proof to me of his vision and ambition. The fact that it took an army to make CD is appealing to me. I like the demos of CD, but I like the grandiosity of the finished product even more.

[DieselDaisy]

He had no vision and the reason we know this is, he constantly messed with the songs for the best part of ten years and switched producers constantly. Just listen to the demos and the finished album. Ultimately, any vision he may have claimed at one period turned into flatulence.

The fact he tried so many different producers and musicians is proof to me of his vision and ambition. The fact that it took an army to make CD is appealing to me. I like the demos of CD, but I like the grandiosity of the finished product even more.

Yet, if Geffen-Interscope had not forced his hand in 2008, he would still be adding bleeps to the thing today.

[Nosaj Thing]

This,

Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background. The ocean surf sample loop #294573

and this,

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

is the sort of pretentious rubbish Guns N' Roses fans of the Axl persuasion seem to have convinced themselves into believing. Axl is not Roger Waters. If you listen to Chinese Democracy, an absolute mess of an album, it is clear that Axl has about as much clue about the direction of the album as you or I have; this accounts for all the aimless tinkering.

Excellent post. Some Axl fans are extremely delusional.

[Rovim]

He had no vision and the reason we know this is, he constantly messed with the songs for the best part of ten years and switched producers constantly. Just listen to the demos and the finished album. Ultimately, any vision he may have claimed at one period turned into flatulence.

Maybe it took him a long time to figure out how to record what he heard in his head, and what exacty that was. Also: maybe when he thought he had it, he heard something else, and chased that sound, and he's a perfectionist, so maybe he thought he could improve it. We don't know like you say, we have no way of knowing what he was thinking.

We have old demos like the There Was A Time 1999 demo, and that was before Bucket came along with his outro. In my opinion it improved the song and gave it the release it needed. Sometimes the songs improved, and other times not so much imo, but Axl said the music was exactly what he wanted it to be.

This,

Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background. The ocean surf sample loop #294573

and this,

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

is the sort of pretentious rubbish Guns N' Roses fans of the Axl persuasion seem to have convinced themselves into believing. Axl is not Roger Waters. If you listen to Chinese Democracy, an absolute mess of an album, it is clear that Axl has about as much clue about the direction of the album as you or I have; this accounts for all the aimless tinkering.

Excellent post. Some Axl fans are extremely delusional.

If you're referring to me, then please explain what was so delusional about my post. Until then, I'll assume you're just making a throwaway comment that you can't support with real discussion.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

Yet I am forced to include that Axl's 'vision' consists of, more beeps, more introductions, more guitarists - more of everything!. It is not much of a vision and there is certainly a lot more coherence in an Izzy Stradlin album.