Slash is sick of the media creating GNR conflict

[Rovim]

Yet I am forced to include that Axl's 'vision' consists of, more beeps, more introductions, more guitarists - more of everything!. It is not much of a vision and there is certainly a lot more coherence in an Izzy Stradlin album.

You're just repeating yourself now. I know you're forced to include your bullshit cause you just can't help yourself. It's what you do. But you know, it's getting tedious to discuss something I enjoy, and you obviously dislike, without you having any ability to discuss it without resorting to your usual bullshit lol. You're like a broken record. Like...what do you want me to say?

It's shit. Worst album ever made.

[DieselDaisy]

Yet I am forced to include that Axl's 'vision' consists of, more beeps, more introductions, more guitarists - more of everything!. It is not much of a vision and there is certainly a lot more coherence in an Izzy Stradlin album.

You're just repeating yourself now. I know you're forced to include your bullshit cause you just can't help yourself. It's what you do. But you know, it's getting tedious to discuss something I enjoy, and you obviously dislike, without you having any ability to discuss it without resorting to your usual bullshit lol. You're like a broken record. Like...what do you want me to say?

It's shit. Worst album ever made.

It is not that bad. I am not criticising you for liking the thing. I just believe this whole, ''Axl'', ''visionary'', ''ambition'', stuff, to be complete bollocks. Axl, at one point, would have liked us all to believe, that he is this Reznor type figure - but - there is a difference between projecting and actually, being. And, if there is one conclusion to be drawn from the whole 1999-2008 period, it is that Axl did not have a clue how to put this material out there. His original 'vision' for instance was, 'a trilogy released at intervals'. Well, he managed part one of that vision but I do not think he rationalised, playing casinos forevermore in that same 'vision'. Either his vision was hot air after all, or, it was the biggest balls up since the opening day of the Somme.

[Rovim]

Yet I am forced to include that Axl's 'vision' consists of, more beeps, more introductions, more guitarists - more of everything!. It is not much of a vision and there is certainly a lot more coherence in an Izzy Stradlin album.

You're just repeating yourself now. I know you're forced to include your bullshit cause you just can't help yourself. It's what you do. But you know, it's getting tedious to discuss something I enjoy, and you obviously dislike, without you having any ability to discuss it without resorting to your usual bullshit lol. You're like a broken record. Like...what do you want me to say?

It's shit. Worst album ever made.

It is not that bad. I am not criticising you for liking the thing. I just believe this whole, ''Axl'', ''visionary'', ''ambition'', stuff, to be complete bollocks. Axl, at one point, would have liked us all to believe, that he is this Reznor type figure - but - there is a difference between projecting and actually, being. And, if there is one conclusion to be drawn from the whole 1999-2008 period, it is that Axl did not have a clue how to put this material out there. His original 'vision' for instance was, 'a trilogy released at intervals'. Well, he managed part one of that vision but I do not think he rationalised, playing casinos forevermore in that same 'vision'. Either his vision was hot air after all, or, it was the biggest balls up since the opening day of the Somme.

But what Axl says doesn't shape my opinion on the music. It's the music, and the music alone. I don't need to believe Axl, I can form my own opinion on the album, and I did.

I gave my reasons for why I do think he had a musical vision for it. A direction he may have lost, thought he found, then lost again, and chased the sound in his head for years until he found it, and finally released it in 2008. I can't provide you with anything more then that.

Maybe he'll release the second half of Chinese one day, maybe not. To be honest with you, I think you focus too much on what that fuckin' asshole Axl Rose, the shitbag that broke up old Guns and ruined the band you loved did and all the shit he continues to do that you don't approve of, instead of realizing that not everyone who honestly liked the album is delusional, naive, or thinks Axl is an angel. No dude.

For me, it's just 14 songs, I don't think about all the other shit when I listen to Chinese, I'm just listening to music I dig. There is no big thing behind it.

But how many times can you repeat yourself, telling everyone here how shit it is? You spend more time highlighting how much you think it's shit then on music you enjoy. That's weird imo. To me, that says you're bitter and this is the way you and others that act like you choose to cope with what ended almost 20 years ago. (old Guns)

Edited September 2, 2014 by Rovim

[DR DOOM]

I would have preferred CD to be full of the "experimental" or "industrial" songs like Silkworms, OMG, Riad, Shacklers and whatever else there is rather than the hodge podge, cover all bases tracklisting it ended up having.

Seems like it was a massive flip flop at the 11th hour to make all these songs and then have Ron Thal come in and "rock and roll" them up...and when you read about Ron's sessions for CD ( he was just chucked in the studio, unfamiliar with the material) Axl's approach really does seem to be "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" and I don't believe he really knew what he was doing with CD either, or if he did he wasn't confident in it and made major compromises.

[DieselDaisy]

For me, it's just 14 songs, I don't think about all the other shit when I listen to Chinese, I'm just listening to music I dig. There is no big thing behind it.

But how many times can you repeat yourself, telling everyone here how shit it is? You spend more time highlighting how much you think it's shit then on music you enjoy. That's weird imo. To me, that says you're bitter and this is the way you and others that act like you choose to cope with what ended almost 20 years ago. (old Guns)

Well you are all Axl fans haha. If anyone wants to discuss Stradlin's albums, go ahead! I am not posting on the Slash thread by the way because, I suspect it will be an album of Halos as opposed to an album of Anastasias.

[Rovim]

I would have preferred CD to be full of the "experimental" or "industrial" songs like Silkworms, OMG, Riad, Shacklers and whatever else there is rather than the hodge podge, cover all bases tracklisting it ended up having.

Seems like it was a massive flip flop at the 11th hour to make all these songs and then have Ron Thal come in and "rock and roll" them up...and when you read about Ron's sessions for CD ( he was just chucked in the studio, unfamiliar with the material) Axl's approach really does seem to be "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" and I don't believe he really knew what he was doing with CD either, or if he did he wasn't confident in it and made major compromises.

Axl is insecure as fuck as a musician. I think he wanted to try everything, bring the best musicians to help him with his magnum opus (as he saw it) you don't bring Brian fuckin' May to help if it's "just an album" but I think as time went by, his goals changed as well, and like I've said he's a perfectionist imo, so his approach was probably "whatever it takes, as long as it takes".

[Rovim]

For me, it's just 14 songs, I don't think about all the other shit when I listen to Chinese, I'm just listening to music I dig. There is no big thing behind it.

But how many times can you repeat yourself, telling everyone here how shit it is? You spend more time highlighting how much you think it's shit then on music you enjoy. That's weird imo. To me, that says you're bitter and this is the way you and others that act like you choose to cope with what ended almost 20 years ago. (old Guns)

Well you are all Axl fans haha. If anyone wants to discuss Stradlin's albums, go ahead! I am not posting on the Slash thread by the way because, I suspect it will be an album of Halos as opposed to an album of Anastasias.

Yes. I am an Axl fan. But also a Slash fan, and an Izzy fan, and a Bucket fan. And whenever I discuss the music that was created by these musicians, I don't just repeat myself like you do, I mainly talk about what I like about the music they've created, or when I dislike something, I give my reasons too, but not 50,000 fuckin' times. And I don't mock others in a childish way either. Not trying to insult you right now, but even your reply now "well you are all Axl fans haha"...what are you? 5? what the fuck. That's a shitty excuse for whatever the fuck it is you're doing. It's weak as shit, and I don't buy it, but hey...it's your right to keep doing it, and who am I to tell you to do otherwise? I'm just a Guns fan trying to discuss new Gn'R in a Guns forum.

Difference between you and me is that you don't respect the fact I enjoy discussing the band I love (new Guns) cause it just so happens that you're not a fan of the band, and it seems you hold a grudge for any "Axl fan" you don't even call Guns fans Guns fans cause oh no! they like new Guns too. Is that not childish? come on.

I respect the right of any old Guns fan to hate the fuckin' shit out of Chinese, to say whatever they want to say. I don't feel you give me and others that enjoy Chinese the same courtesy. Not without mocking us and questioning how valid our opinion is just cause it's different then yours.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

Oh come on, stop being a cry baby. Firstly, I do not think Democracy is complete shite; I actually like a few of the songs on it (TWAT, Better, IRS a bit). I prefer the term, 'misguided' and 'patchy'. Yes, I do think certain fans here overrate it and act like it is a 'lost' Floyd album and I am perfectly entitled to bring this up. Secondly, I am not a reunionista and can criticise Slash quite a bit. Thirdly, it is alright when the shoe is on the other foot. You give as good as you get also Rovim - stop being so coy here: NB, your criticisms of Izzy's albums above (you cannot expect me to shut up on this, can you?).

[Nosaj Thing]

Yet I am forced to include that Axl's 'vision' consists of, more beeps, more introductions, more guitarists - more of everything!. It is not much of a vision and there is certainly a lot more coherence in an Izzy Stradlin album.

You're just repeating yourself now. I know you're forced to include your bullshit cause you just can't help yourself. It's what you do. But you know, it's getting tedious to discuss something I enjoy, and you obviously dislike, without you having any ability to discuss it without resorting to your usual bullshit lol. You're like a broken record. Like...what do you want me to say?

It's shit. Worst album ever made.

It is not that bad. I am not criticising you for liking the thing. I just believe this whole, ''Axl'', ''visionary'', ''ambition'', stuff, to be complete bollocks. Axl, at one point, would have liked us all to believe, that he is this Reznor type figure - but - there is a difference between projecting and actually, being. And, if there is one conclusion to be drawn from the whole 1999-2008 period, it is that Axl did not have a clue how to put this material out there. His original 'vision' for instance was, 'a trilogy released at intervals'. Well, he managed part one of that vision but I do not think he rationalised, playing casinos forevermore in that same 'vision'. Either his vision was hot air after all, or, it was the biggest balls up since the opening day of the Somme.

Boom!

Couldn't have said it better.

[Rovim]

Oh come on, stop being a cry baby. Firstly, I do not think Democracy is complete shite; I actually like a few of the songs on it (TWAT, Better, IRS a bit). I prefer the term, 'misguided' and 'patchy'. Yes, I do think certain fans here overrate it and act like it is a 'lost' Floyd album and I am perfectly entitled to bring this up. Secondly, I am not a reunionista and can criticise Slash quite a bit. Thirdly, it is alright when the shoe is on the other foot. You give as good as you get also Rovim - stop being so coy here: NB, your criticisms of Izzy's albums above (you cannot expect me to shut up on this, can you?).

Who's being a cry baby? getting personal when there is no need to is a shitty way to discuss anything. And I'm not being coy, stop taking your precious Izzy albums so seriously, what did I say? and how many times did I say it? how is that the same compared to your trollish way of discussing anything you don't like?

And it's not just Guns, it's the same with any type of music you don't enjoy. Let's just stop discussing this shit, cause I don't think it's getting through, so you know...a waste of my time and yours too cause I find it very hard to take you seriously. It was an honest attempt though. I've tried.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

What music?

There is not even a lot of music I hate. Hip hop and rap but, do you see me post in the Kenya West threads? Nu metal also and 90s grungy american rock.

[Rovim]

What music?

There is not even a lot of music I hate. Hip hop and rap but, do you see me post in the Kenya West threads? Nu metal also and 90s grungy american rock.

Ok, I'll bite: what about the shit you've said in the Led Zeppelin thread? Here comes a convincing explanation.

[DieselDaisy]

Oh, Zep. Guilty as charged. I do have a bit of a phobia against poodle haired elvin rock.

[Rovim]

Oh, Zep. Guilty as charged. I do have a bit of a phobia against poodle haired elvin rock.

I rest my case.

[DieselDaisy]

One band though.

[Rovim]

One band though.

I said I rest it.

[wasted]

Izzy is anonymous to the mainstream, fans know him through GNR. Maybe a few people see a news bit about Izzy but I find it hard to believe people don't check him out for the ex-GNR ref.

I like Izzy songs more than Slash or Axl, Axl at his best probably beats him but he has so many songs. Axl has some big ones. But throwing out solo albums with no expectation is easier than living with the GNR back cat and living up to the name. CD had to be a lot of things. I still think even with Izzy and Slash in GNR they might have only put out one more record at this point as GNR. And that's what they didn't like GNR became a prison of expectations. They got out when they were legends and time froze. Who knew what uncool stuff lay ahead. Axl got a little taste of it.

To be totally honest with you, I'll take Chinese over all of Slash's and Izzy's albums combined. Even if it's just 14 songs (15 including Oh My God)

Axl has the real need to go big. You don't get those production values anywhere else. (talking about former Guns members) Even Slash's biggest project (Contraband) had shifty production, and it was fairly quickly put together.

I'd probably take CD over all the solo projects and VR. But Izzy just churns out songs without trying, he's a natural.

I always think Jungle, Paradise City, SCOM and Rocket Queen are the songs Axl pushed to be more epic. I doubt Izzy was pushing for synths on PC. from CD you can see what elements of GNR Axl brought.

Axl makes albums, Izzy writes songs. Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background.

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

I think it is accurate. Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums. Axl didn't write all the songs on any of the albums. But even on AFD he found the painting and they put all the destruction under that umbrella. He kind of takes the songs from everyone moulds them together. So they are all kind of similar level. UYI has that painting and the lyrics. All the songs lyrically about shattered illusions under the light of fame. Same for CD really. Ironic freedom permeates the whole thing. A whole new mind scape is mapped out. AFD is Jungian, UYI is Kantian, CD is Randian.

The genesis of the songs is creative and fresh but then they work towards making it GNR and lyrically going to be in same ball park. AFD - darkness/hope, UYI - lost/rage, CD - oppression/defiance.

CD is the track being built , CD II is the Rollercoaster of Destruction. The action movie sequel to Freedom Begins. You either die a hero or live long enough to be a badass.

Edited September 3, 2014 by wasted

[Rovim]

Izzy is anonymous to the mainstream, fans know him through GNR. Maybe a few people see a news bit about Izzy but I find it hard to believe people don't check him out for the ex-GNR ref.

I like Izzy songs more than Slash or Axl, Axl at his best probably beats him but he has so many songs. Axl has some big ones. But throwing out solo albums with no expectation is easier than living with the GNR back cat and living up to the name. CD had to be a lot of things. I still think even with Izzy and Slash in GNR they might have only put out one more record at this point as GNR. And that's what they didn't like GNR became a prison of expectations. They got out when they were legends and time froze. Who knew what uncool stuff lay ahead. Axl got a little taste of it.

To be totally honest with you, I'll take Chinese over all of Slash's and Izzy's albums combined. Even if it's just 14 songs (15 including Oh My God)

Axl has the real need to go big. You don't get those production values anywhere else. (talking about former Guns members) Even Slash's biggest project (Contraband) had shifty production, and it was fairly quickly put together.

I'd probably take CD over all the solo projects and VR. But Izzy just churns out songs without trying, he's a natural.

I always think Jungle, Paradise City, SCOM and Rocket Queen are the songs Axl pushed to be more epic. I doubt Izzy was pushing for synths on PC. from CD you can see what elements of GNR Axl brought.

Axl makes albums, Izzy writes songs. Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background.

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

I think it is accurate. Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums. Axl didn't write all the songs on any of the albums. But even on AFD he found the painting and they put all the destruction under that umbrella. He kind of takes the songs from everyone moulds them together. So they are all kind of similar level. UYI has that painting and the lyrics. All the songs lyrically about shattered illusions under the light of fame. Same for CD really. Ironic freedom permeates the whole thing. A whole new mind scape is mapped out. AFD is Jungian, UYI is Kantian, CD is Randian.

The genesis of the songs is creative and fresh but then they work towards making it GNR and lyrically going to be in same ball park. AFD - darkness/hope, UYI - lost/rage, CD - oppression/defiance.

CD is the track being built , CD II is the Rollercoaster of Destruction. The action movie sequel to Freedom Begins. You either die a hero or live long enough to be a badass.

I like that. I just meant, well...you said something about every song on Chinese being kinda like an album. I think Axl gives a lot of attention to every song, and until it's done, whenever he's working on it (cause he said he works on this song, drops it, works on another, comes back to it later when there are new ideas) that's his whole musical world. Seems like he'll stay in the trenches as long as it takes until he fully understands what the song is about, and that allows him to put together the big picture, and find out what the theme of the album is.

Point is, Axl thinks a lot about this shit. Izzy just writes the song without thinking about it, the ideal way I suppose, but Axl's need to sort shit out cause he's not as prolific or talented in that way allows him to take it to a new level. Of course he's interested in doing that anyway, but even with albums like UYI and Chinese, where there isn't an obvious connection between the songs, there is kinda. It's not like an Izzy album where every song is interchangable. Know what I mean?

I think it all comes down to a few things: what is your goal before you have anything to show for? when you enter a recording studio with nothing, but you have wild ambitions that fuels you, or you just sit there when there are people around you and you write Patience casually cause you're bored and it's basically done.

Axl's limitations, including his unstable nature were probably crucial to how Chinese sounds today, but he's still a naturally gifted songwriter, it's just Izzy is something else, it's totally organic, and it has to be, cause Izzy will never try to force something and go against what the song naturally asks for. So you won't get a crazy bridge like in the middle of Better, cause that goes against what the song demanded maybe. Compared to Izzy, I'll dare to call it more progressive. Not in sound, just Axl's way of thinking. He doesn't mind going in circles a little or a lot or for 10 years just to find out what are the options here? He wants to make sure there isn't a better way, a better approach to do it.

Sometimes I think he goes too far, but isn't it interesting to find out, for the listener and for the artist what it sounds like after you've had a shitload of years, money, and styles to discover that yes...I needed to sing that one line like a mexican vampire. I find that very fucked up, but also cool as shit.

My intention with this post was not to make sense, so please understand. CD ll is, indeed, the rollercoaster of destruction.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Rovim

[wasted]

Izzy is anonymous to the mainstream, fans know him through GNR. Maybe a few people see a news bit about Izzy but I find it hard to believe people don't check him out for the ex-GNR ref.

I like Izzy songs more than Slash or Axl, Axl at his best probably beats him but he has so many songs. Axl has some big ones. But throwing out solo albums with no expectation is easier than living with the GNR back cat and living up to the name. CD had to be a lot of things. I still think even with Izzy and Slash in GNR they might have only put out one more record at this point as GNR. And that's what they didn't like GNR became a prison of expectations. They got out when they were legends and time froze. Who knew what uncool stuff lay ahead. Axl got a little taste of it.

To be totally honest with you, I'll take Chinese over all of Slash's and Izzy's albums combined. Even if it's just 14 songs (15 including Oh My God)

Axl has the real need to go big. You don't get those production values anywhere else. (talking about former Guns members) Even Slash's biggest project (Contraband) had shifty production, and it was fairly quickly put together.

I'd probably take CD over all the solo projects and VR. But Izzy just churns out songs without trying, he's a natural.

I always think Jungle, Paradise City, SCOM and Rocket Queen are the songs Axl pushed to be more epic. I doubt Izzy was pushing for synths on PC. from CD you can see what elements of GNR Axl brought.

Axl makes albums, Izzy writes songs. Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background.

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

I think it is accurate. Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums. Axl didn't write all the songs on any of the albums. But even on AFD he found the painting and they put all the destruction under that umbrella. He kind of takes the songs from everyone moulds them together. So they are all kind of similar level. UYI has that painting and the lyrics. All the songs lyrically about shattered illusions under the light of fame. Same for CD really. Ironic freedom permeates the whole thing. A whole new mind scape is mapped out. AFD is Jungian, UYI is Kantian, CD is Randian.

The genesis of the songs is creative and fresh but then they work towards making it GNR and lyrically going to be in same ball park. AFD - darkness/hope, UYI - lost/rage, CD - oppression/defiance.

CD is the track being built , CD II is the Rollercoaster of Destruction. The action movie sequel to Freedom Begins. You either die a hero or live long enough to be a badass.

I like that. I just meant, well...you said something about every song on Chinese being kinda like an album. I think Axl gives a lot of attention to every song, and until it's done, whenever he's working on it (cause he said he works on this song, drops it, works on another, comes back to it later when there are new ideas) that's his whole musical world. Seems like he'll stay in the trenches as long as it takes. Until he fully understands what the song is about, and that allows him to put together the big picture, and find out what the them of the album is.

Point is, Axl thinks a lot about this shit. Izzy just writes the song without thinking about it, the ideal way I suppose, but Axl's need to sort shit out cause he's not as prolific or talented in that way allows him to take it to a new level. Of course he's interested in doing that anyway, but even with albums like UYI and Chinese, where there isn't an obvious connection between the songs, there is kinda. It's not like an Izzy album where every song is interchangable. Know what I mean?

I think it all comes down to a few things: what is your goal before you have anything to show for? when you enter a recording studio with nothing but you have wild ambitions that fuels you, or you just sit there when there are people around you and you write Patience casually and it's basically done.

Axl's limitations, including his unstable nature were probably crucial to how Chinese sounds today, but he's still a naturally gifted songwriter, it's just Izzy is something else, it's totally organic, and it has to be, cause Izzy will never try to force something and go against what the song naturally asks for. So you won't get a crazy bridge like in the middle of Better, cause that goes against what the song demanded maybe. Compared to Izzy, I'll dare to call it more progressive. Not in sound, just Axl's way of thinking. He doesn't mind to go in circles a little or a lot or for 10 years just to find out what are the options here? He wants to make sure there isn't a better way, a better approach to do it.

Sometimes I think he goes too far, but isn't it interesting to find out, for the listener and for the artist what it sounds like after you've had a shitload of years, money, and styles to discover that yes...I needed to sing that one line like a mexican vampire. I find that very fucked up, but also cool as shit.

My intention with this post was not to make sense, so please understand. CD ll is, indeed, the rollercoaster of destruction.

Yeah I think CD was maybe a real album with a theme but CD II might be more like a mix tape with a theme, like being caught in the cross fire of a bank heist.

Izzy and Slash are more like craftsmen working with their tools, that's pretty much an artist. I think Axl is similar but also is open to different styles, just more open minded.

So Slash and Izzy stick to a style on their records. But Axl sticks to a theme but you can express those themes in different ways. If Axl wrote the lyrics on an Illusion song it had a similar theme or vibe. Awareness of fame as an illusion but you can use it and live with it. Disillusioned through different styles of songs like Dead Horse, Bad Apples, Estranged, Garden of Eden, Coma. Axl always was using different styles on AFD and UYI but then he made a paradigm shift to 90s influences in terms of style but a lot of his songwriting style and lyrics remained.

In fairness it's hard for Izzy or Slash to really just change their styles from rock n roll to nu metal. Whereas Axl just found some guitarists who have different style.

Axl is kind of playing the Executive Producer role on CD. Like George Lucas is a filmmaker, Axl is a music maker. He hasn't been pigeoned holed as just rock n roll or hard rock he has other areas. CD is basically an 90s Alternative record with 70s style. He took that leap, that risk and has been battered for it from some quarters but it seems to come from an honest creative place. This is what floated his boat. If it was just money he would have just made a hard rock record with or without Slash/Izzy. He could have just remade UYI.

But he did go all the way to unprecedented levels where each song has it's own production almost. Maybe that's the future when people don't really buy albums, every song has to be vital. Each song has to be special. So that could be CD II, not necessarily making sense thematically but each song is unique and gives the listener something different but not in a throwaway way. Silkworms as serious as Atlas Shrugged but complete different ends of the spectrum. Then Goin Down is over in the other sand pit building a castle. The Pitman has a battalion of synths in the barn. Axl's Barnyard of Animals.

[DieselDaisy]

Yet, Izzy has written, besides rock n' roll and hard rock: reggae songs, punk songs, country and folk songs, psychedelia as well as 'Hispanic' Link Wray style fuzzy instrumentals. Genre by genre, Izzy is far more experimental than Axl. Try,

Partly Cloudy

Grunt

Surf Roach

Trance Mission

Shall Walk

Everything's Alright

FSO Ragga

for the more, experimental side of Izzy.

[wasted]

izzy never did rap industrial though. He just retreaded what Keef already did.

[Free Bird]

Izzy is anonymous to the mainstream, fans know him through GNR. Maybe a few people see a news bit about Izzy but I find it hard to believe people don't check him out for the ex-GNR ref.

I like Izzy songs more than Slash or Axl, Axl at his best probably beats him but he has so many songs. Axl has some big ones. But throwing out solo albums with no expectation is easier than living with the GNR back cat and living up to the name. CD had to be a lot of things. I still think even with Izzy and Slash in GNR they might have only put out one more record at this point as GNR. And that's what they didn't like GNR became a prison of expectations. They got out when they were legends and time froze. Who knew what uncool stuff lay ahead. Axl got a little taste of it.

To be totally honest with you, I'll take Chinese over all of Slash's and Izzy's albums combined. Even if it's just 14 songs (15 including Oh My God)

Axl has the real need to go big. You don't get those production values anywhere else. (talking about former Guns members) Even Slash's biggest project (Contraband) had shifty production, and it was fairly quickly put together.

I'd probably take CD over all the solo projects and VR. But Izzy just churns out songs without trying, he's a natural.

I always think Jungle, Paradise City, SCOM and Rocket Queen are the songs Axl pushed to be more epic. I doubt Izzy was pushing for synths on PC. from CD you can see what elements of GNR Axl brought.

Axl makes albums, Izzy writes songs. Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background.

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

I think it is accurate. Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums.

Izzy writes songs, Axl made an album

[Rovim]

Izzy is anonymous to the mainstream, fans know him through GNR. Maybe a few people see a news bit about Izzy but I find it hard to believe people don't check him out for the ex-GNR ref.

I like Izzy songs more than Slash or Axl, Axl at his best probably beats him but he has so many songs. Axl has some big ones. But throwing out solo albums with no expectation is easier than living with the GNR back cat and living up to the name. CD had to be a lot of things. I still think even with Izzy and Slash in GNR they might have only put out one more record at this point as GNR. And that's what they didn't like GNR became a prison of expectations. They got out when they were legends and time froze. Who knew what uncool stuff lay ahead. Axl got a little taste of it.

To be totally honest with you, I'll take Chinese over all of Slash's and Izzy's albums combined. Even if it's just 14 songs (15 including Oh My God)

Axl has the real need to go big. You don't get those production values anywhere else. (talking about former Guns members) Even Slash's biggest project (Contraband) had shifty production, and it was fairly quickly put together.

I'd probably take CD over all the solo projects and VR. But Izzy just churns out songs without trying, he's a natural.

I always think Jungle, Paradise City, SCOM and Rocket Queen are the songs Axl pushed to be more epic. I doubt Izzy was pushing for synths on PC. from CD you can see what elements of GNR Axl brought.

Axl makes albums, Izzy writes songs. Axl knows how to make a huge record and how to push the songs and be creative to get to a point where they don't sound like the sum of the parts. I'm not sure if that is song writing, if that makes sense? That's like a combo of creativity and genius.

Axl could have taken Ain't it a Bitch and had Bucket doing some Zombie guitar on it with Pitman doing Korn synths and turned it into a horror rock n roll song. I'm kind of expecting Down by the Ocean to have some NIN element, like an acoustic song with a white noise soundscape in the background.

Axl's chinese recipe. He'll try anything, combine shit that doesn't make sense on paper, but it does when you taste it. Whatever works, you'll like at least a few dishes. That is creative, and it's ballsy too imo. He doesn't just copy, not everything is so traditional, he breaks molds inside the Guns sound. He keeps the elements he likes, and he puts them together with fresh shit, big no no's for most other old dogs. It's cool.

"Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums" couldn't have said it better myself. I doubt it's how Axl sees it, and I don't think it's accurate, but yeah, Axl cares about the big picture, how it all fits together, how his potential trilogy works, titles of songs, vibes, and statements. It's all there, there is a crazy logic at play here, if you agree to take the full ride. I want to take the full ride, I feel like with Chinese, the rollercoaster went up, but the real thrill of going down is not fully built yet. CD ll is the real conclusion, the best part perhaps.

I think it is accurate. Izzy writes songs, Axl makes albums.

Izzy writes songs, Axl made an album

Axl released an album, but made a bunch of them. Brian May, Bach, Brain, Fortus, Dizzy, Tommy, DJ, and many more all said Axl had more then just what we got. There's a difference between what an artist chose to release and what he completed and is sitting in the vault. Prince is a good example.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Rovim

[bacardimayne]

Izzy would never have agreed to do music promos whereby you have a massive budget, turn up for make-up in the morning like an actor and have a script! Izzy's idea is, at best a bunch of clips from a random gig (Paradise City), at worst, a shoot on a sound stage (Sweet Child) or a pre-prepared gig (Jungle). He could not even be bothered to turn up for the filming with Schwarzenegger for You Could Be Mine. Fundamentally though, I think Izzy's ideal preference is to dispense with promos altogether - hence - the fact that the guy has not recorded a music video since 1992, despite being on his tenth record.

Class act is Izzy.

He did one for that awful Baby Rann song a year or two ago.

[DieselDaisy]

I love that song, one of my favourite Stradlin songs in fact:

My baby ran away to vietnam
And my dog just salivates
She told me later: "yeah, i'm surely mad
No need turn bait"

I wouldn't drive to lax
She took my good suitcase

My baby ran away to vietnam
The dog just licked his plate
She bought her ticket, she ain't coming back
Said, said: "little kids"

My baby ran away to vietnam
Left a pork chop on the plate
She told me later: "i ain't coming back"
Said: "no need turn bait"

She never talked about the day
She took off and ran away

Yeah!

Yeah! my baby ran away to vietnam
Along the east bound rail
I'm gonna catch it, gonna drag her back
Back on that train

My baby ran away to vietnam
But the dog stayed in la
I know you're leaving but i'm coming back, yeah
Y' just have to wait

My baby ran away to vietnam
My baby ran away to vietnam
My baby ran away to vietnam
My baby ran away to vietnam

That is how you do a video also. Just simple: stick a camera there and film the band playing the song.