Len Cnut Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 ITS THE RETURN OF BIN LADEN, GRAB YOUR ARMOUR! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Just don't leave us for an echo chamber, Lenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I'm grabbing my amour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 And the moral of this story is, we're right. And thats it, we're right. No, forget what you might think, we're just right. Thats 100% infallibly right and any criticism of us will be filed under 'terrorist' or 'terrorist sympathiser' or 'terrorist apologist', right, OK, as long as I get the program. So in future political threads basically if you ain't onside then stay out because there's no actual discussion going on here other than how do we, the infallibly right, deal with the opposition, mercifully or mercilessly.In view of which, I'd like to take this time to beg for clemency, i apologise, you're right, God bless America, I need to learn to get my head around this 'some are more equal than others' concept before my big mouth gets me in trouble one day I'll be sure and keep out of these threads in future, clearly this is all a lot bigger than me.It's ok, the darkside can get the better of us all sometimes.ITS THE RETURN OF BIN LADEN, GRAB YOUR ARMOUR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Yeah, dark being the operative word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Yeah, dark being the operative word Whatever.... I'm probably as dark (or darker) than the average Arab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Spray tan doesn't count. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Yeah, dark being the operative word Whatever.... I'm probably as dark (or darker) than the average Arab. Ironic isn't it? Edited October 15, 2014 by Lennie Godber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketan Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) I disagree with what I see as a one-sided assessment. Undoubtedly military action should be used as a last resort, and not as a viable option in the form that it was taken in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. I do agree that sending in an 800 pound gorilla to fight a couple mosquitos likely will do more harm than good, but not all situations are created equal. Since ISIS desires to be more than just a terrorist organization and instead opts for full state status, the old rules of international law seem a little more relevant. We're not talking about an organization that seeks to sow the seeds of anarchy and destruction, but one that wishes autonomy and sovereignty. The problem becomes when it's designs include mass-murder and potential genocide. You may not see the moral imperative of preventing these ills, but the people being butchered might argue differently. You paint one scenario of being bombed, I'll paint another: you belong to a non-Muslim family/town in Northern Iraq and the capture of your town by ISIS forces means imminent death. You would surely appreciate outside help to save yourself and family members from being butchered, but some smug, audacious foreign nation feels like it's not their problem and the death of your family/town is of no consequence. Now, should U.S./Nato/Western forces act whenever one person/family are at risk of being killed by extremist forces? Of course not. But me personally would not oppose military action when such deeds reach the level whereby the term genocide can be justifiably used. Ketan, the attitude you express in your post was the very same held by Western leaders when 500k to a million people were butchered in Rwanda. There do exist times when doing nothing is worse than doing something. It's not an absolute science so I don't necessarily fault politicians/military experts for not getting it right every time. But sorry, I wholeheartedly disagree that Western intervention is always wrong. As Edmund Burke once said, "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."I am not advocating inaction at all. In fact i have absolutely no qualms about having the world use military to stop IS. Seriously, I am horrified when reading the stories about beheadings and rape. Horrified thinking about the potential genocide which awaits people of Kobane.But there have been instances when the American led coalition have invaded foreign countries not simply to avoid a potential genocide but to "free the people" from an oppressive regime has there not? What is the justification in talking up a cause of democracy for some foreign people and then killing innocents in doing it?My main objection is to the glorification of american strikes in general. And the quantification of bheadings and civilian deaths in air strikes and being able to chose one over the other. Americans keep on invading one country or the other and leave the mess for the rest of the world to deal with. And then act all saintly that they are killing to save humanity. Brilliant. I mean who is responsible for the train-wreck that is Iraq? And if killing the civilians in "accidental" air strike was wrong then where is the accountability for that? is it a wonder that more and more of such groups keep popping up severely hating the West? And then they gain support because they seem to be fighting the evil West and then they are so drunk on power that they rape and behead anyone they very well like and then you send in more force to tackle them and tell the world that "action is needed otherwise more people will be killed". Any answer to an oppressive regime has to be from within. You can't simply decide that the people of one country should be free and send in forces to fight the dictators and hand them democracy.The world is still evolving and we are perhaps centuries away from having a world where all the people in all the countries are able to see reason and to see the futility and uselessness of such animosity among their own people . And it will take time for oppressive regimes to become obsolete. And the whole process of becoming a civil nation is probably very slow. But in the end it is the people of a nation who should want it. We should support any internal fights for freedom/democracy but we should not fight their wars for them. Edited October 15, 2014 by Ketan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Yeah, dark being the operative word Whatever.... I'm probably as dark (or darker) than the average Arab. Ironic isn't it? Meh....skin color has nothing to do with my qualms about extremists....there's probably just as many white, yellow skinned, red skinned, etc. extremists out there (of one sort or another) as there are dark skinned extremists. It's the mentality that bothers me.... their mindset, so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Yeah, dark being the operative word Whatever.... I'm probably as dark (or darker) than the average Arab. Ironic isn't it? Meh....skin color has nothing to do with my qualms about extremists....there's probably just as many white, yellow skinned, red skinned, etc. extremists out there (of one sort or another) as there are dark skinned extremists. It's the mentality that bothers me.... their mindset, so to speak. I'm only messing with ya mate, it's just that 'darkside' comment left a window for a riposte which i took up. I'm probably more against extremists than you, where i come from Mujahideen live in the mountainous terrain surrounding the village, let me tell ya, they ain't nice folk some of em, particularly to the women, they are the bane of the locals existence. I've been on a bus in Kashmir before with two of em (i weren't with em, they were just on the same bus ) they got arrested at the border and slammed head-first into the back of a van. Edited October 15, 2014 by Lennie Godber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdriftatSea Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 One thing that I think people need to remember is that death can result just as easily from inaction. I'm not necessarily justifying Western intervention into the ISIS/Iraq/Kurd/Syria conflict, but to suggest that drone attacks are unjustified due to collateral damage ignores the reality that many innocents will be killed if nothing is done. It's a messy situation with very few, if any, good solutions. I didn't say we should stay out of it, we shouldn't. I don't think Lenny is making comparison's other than to say they are all loved by someone and shouldn't have died because they are innocent. Innocent dead people no matter what side of the fence they are on are all collateral damage whether there is intent or not. It's war and there are no rules in war. Those innocent dead people, no matter the side are all loved by someone though. Are they not the same? Isn't Lenny just trying to say they are the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) It's war and there are no rules in war.Really?So by that logic, it would be perfectly fine for the U.S. to use all its resources (including nuclear weapons) to eliminate its foes. Edited October 16, 2014 by Kasanova King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdriftatSea Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's war and there are no rules in war.Really?So by that logic, it would be perfectly fine for the U.S. to use all its resources (including nuclear weapons) to eliminate its foes. Go have a drink KK and leave me alone. I don't want to argue with you and I don't want to talk about war. Kisses you Hot Italian Stallion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's war and there are no rules in war.Really?So by that logic, it would be perfectly fine for the U.S. to use all its resources (including nuclear weapons) to eliminate its foes. Go have a drink KK and leave me alone. I don't want to argue with you and I don't want to talk about war. Kisses you Hot Italian Stallion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdriftatSea Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's war and there are no rules in war.Really?So by that logic, it would be perfectly fine for the U.S. to use all its resources (including nuclear weapons) to eliminate its foes. Go have a drink KK and leave me alone. I don't want to argue with you and I don't want to talk about war. Kisses you Hot Italian Stallion! That's not even a good gif to my comment KK... Can't you do better than that? Kevin Spacey? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's war and there are no rules in war.Really?So by that logic, it would be perfectly fine for the U.S. to use all its resources (including nuclear weapons) to eliminate its foes. Go have a drink KK and leave me alone. I don't want to argue with you and I don't want to talk about war. Kisses you Hot Italian Stallion! That's not even a good gif to my comment KK... Can't you do better than that? Kevin Spacey? Really?Gif's are about the reaction....and that was pretty much my reaction to your post.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdriftatSea Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's war and there are no rules in war.Really?So by that logic, it would be perfectly fine for the U.S. to use all its resources (including nuclear weapons) to eliminate its foes. Go have a drink KK and leave me alone. I don't want to argue with you and I don't want to talk about war. Kisses you Hot Italian Stallion! Actually, I will reply to this. We should continue to bomb ISIS, nuclear no. Where did you get that from what I said? I'm not sure where you came up with nuclear KK. Sometimes I wonder where you come up with the things you say. This is why I don't like to talk to you about anything serious. You are the one that called me asinine. I wasn't talking to you previously. Then I was trying to be nice and all, calling you a hot italian, trying to back out of the conversation and you had to go and post this dumb ass gif.If you want to post more gifs of Kevin Spacey or any other person looking like a dumb ass, which is kind of what I imagine you look like, go ahead. But please, I don't want to have this discussion with you. I don't think you know your ass from deep center field when it comes to most anything serious. Hey, you didn't know jackshit about catfish when you insisted you did. But I do think you are an okay guy and you can be pretty darn funny. So, there. Now if you want to have a deep, indepth convo about war, throw your gifs someone else's way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Actually, I will reply to this. We should continue to bomb ISIS, nuclear no. Where did you get that from what I said? I'm not sure where you came up with nuclear KK. Sometimes I wonder where you come up with the things you say. This is why I don't like to talk to you about anything serious. You are the one that called me asinine. I wasn't talking to you previously. Then I was trying to be nice and all, calling you a hot italian, trying to back out of the conversation and you had to go and post this dumb ass gif.If you want to post more gifs of Kevin Spacey or any other person looking like a dumb ass, which is kind of what I imagine you look like, go ahead. But please, I don't want to have this discussion with you. I don't think you know your ass from deep center field when it comes to most anything serious. Hey, you didn't know jackshit about catfish when you insisted you did. But I do think you are an okay guy and you can be pretty darn funny. So, there. Now if you want to have a deep, indepth convo about war, throw your gifs someone else's way? Who called you asinine? You stated, "It's war and there are no rules in war."And I replied..... By that logic, it would be perfectly fine for the U.S. to use nukes in war.Basically saying that broad statements like that don't hold water. And that yes, there are rules in war and there have been for thousands of years. That's all. No one called you asinine....that comment wasn't even directed at you. As far as catfish go, I don't even remember that conversation....and you're probably right, you probably do know more about catfish than I do. Edited October 16, 2014 by Kasanova King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdriftatSea Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Actually, I will reply to this. We should continue to bomb ISIS, nuclear no. Where did you get that from what I said? I'm not sure where you came up with nuclear KK. Sometimes I wonder where you come up with the things you say. This is why I don't like to talk to you about anything serious. You are the one that called me asinine. I wasn't talking to you previously. Then I was trying to be nice and all, calling you a hot italian, trying to back out of the conversation and you had to go and post this dumb ass gif.If you want to post more gifs of Kevin Spacey or any other person looking like a dumb ass, which is kind of what I imagine you look like, go ahead. But please, I don't want to have this discussion with you. I don't think you know your ass from deep center field when it comes to most anything serious. Hey, you didn't know jackshit about catfish when you insisted you did. But I do think you are an okay guy and you can be pretty darn funny. So, there. Now if you want to have a deep, indepth convo about war, throw your gifs someone else's way? Who called you asinine? You stated, "It's war and there are no rules in war."And I replied..... By that logic, it would be perfectly fine for the U.S. to use nukes in war.Basically saying that broad statements like that don't hold water. And that yes, there are rules in war and there have been for thousands of years. That's all. No one called you asinine....that comment wasn't even directed at you. Before that you said my comment was asinine! And I said I don't want to be a part of this conversation but you keep quoting me. Would you please stop it! Okay never mind, fine, you can keep quoting me KK. I don't care. I really don't. Keep quoting me, keep arguing and keep putting your smiley faces all in here on this war thread. Have a great night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Before that you said my comment was asinine! And I said I don't want to be a part of this conversation but you keep quoting me. Would you please stop it! Okay never mind, fine, you can keep quoting me KK. I don't care. I really don't. Keep quoting me, keep arguing and keep putting your smiley faces all in here on this war thread. Have a great night.Uhm. no.I stated,"I'm not sure how any rational person can compare the intentional slaughtering of innocent civilians to (possible) unintentional collateral damage caused by....... trying to end the slaughtering of innocent civilians.The comparison is absolutely asinine."That statement had absolutely nothing to do with you or your comments. If it did, I would have quoted your comments, like I do anytime I address anyone here. And come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I even clarified that a few posts later....basically stating that the comment was directed at the people in this forum that have been making such comparisons for years. Edited October 16, 2014 by Kasanova King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roush Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 At the end of the day, we're all just playing armchair quarterback for a byzantine, geopolitical conflict. Of which, we have minimal intelligence, and zero field experience....On a Guns N Roses forum of all things. That is all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Len is biased because he is a muslim. Even though you cannot get a pint in the Islamic state - try finding a boozer in the 'caliphate'. But he is completely biased basically. he has been compromised, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Muslims are allowed to drink. They just can't pray drunk. And they pray all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Drama Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Ipso facto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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