What Is Harassment?

[Roush]

This video is total outrage porn.

[tinyrobot]

I don't understand why you don't want to acknowledge the experiences of the females here as being a valid perspective.

When have I said experiences of the females here aren't valid?

lol SoulMonsterAnother great class, btw. And no, the females didn't all agree with me, not even close. Contrary to hysterical accusations in this thread I'm able to value opinions that differ from mine.

Because you keep rubbishing the level of discussion in this thread and use words like hysterical. Maybe we're not reading the same thread but I think this has been a pretty good discussion overall. Tinyrobot as I said previously probably didn't help her cause but that seems to be her general posting style. I can't think of anyone else who hasn't put their point across well (bar the jokey posts).

I posted only one thing that may have sounded "aggressive" but that's only because this topic gets on my nerves and after reading so many disgraceful replies, it made me feel bad to my stomach. And then I was attacked on a personal level because the OP couldn't stand such load of negative responses from the female forum members (I don't know what he expected, though, when he made it clear from his very first post that women's opinion could "fuck off"... so...)

Regardless of it all, I don't see how it is wrong for me to think that this custom of approaching random women on the street it is outdated, old, boring, aggressive, a sad remains of the patriarchy, that should already be banished and dismissed. As society, we should work on finding new better ways of communication between sexes, and new ways to educate our boys and girls, getting rid of these ancient manners that are useless and damaging of both sexes.

[magisme]

lol

[Nosaj Thing]

b-buut my double standards!

Guys, video is the same but it isn't the same!!!1

[Blacula]

One of my students emailed me this. Haven't look into it at all other than watching it. Total douche intro, but interesting watch after that. Anyone else think the dude who does the intro must be Black Sabbath's best friend or at least one of his good pals?

This guy walks like an absolute idiot so people more like make fun of him. Look at the guy at 0:50 - nobody's catcalling him 'cos he acts like a normal man.

[magisme]

He was totally asking for it, right?

[Blacula]

He was totally asking for it, right?

Exactly.

[magisme]

I mean, he shouldn't go out wearing something like that and strutting around like that if he doesn't want to get comments and attention, right?

[Jakey Styley]

Why do you guys not believe the numerous women here telling you about their experiences as women? Why are you so hellbent on invalidating their thoughts on their own experiences (which you will never have or understand) and replacing them with your opinion about how you *think* you'd feel in the situation?

Are some white men subconsciously upset that the world is becoming less about them? I don't think so, but I just can't find out why anyone would be making the arguments some of you are making.

The male video makes a slight point but doesn't prove much or validate much of an argument at all. It's different. That is not the experience of every decent looking guy (as is the case for women). That's the experience of a model-tier guy wearing a short sleeve white T shirt on a day so cold that everyone else has a jacket on, who also has his crotch stuffed.

[Blacula]

I mean, he shouldn't go out wearing something like that and strutting around like that if he doesn't want to get comments and attention, right?

He walks like a clown and they did the whole thing for this "video respond". But female version was pretty fake also, I don't deny it.

[Roush]

We cannot debate a woman's irrational emotions with the same logic we debate ourselves with.

They do not recognise their hypocrisies, double standards, or use of logical fallacies. There is no counterargument to their feely-feely emotional juice.

[tinyrobot]

Why do you guys not believe the numerous women here telling you about their experiences as women? Why are you so hellbent on invalidating their thoughts on their own experiences (which you will never have or understand) and replacing them with your opinion about how you *think* you'd feel in the situation?

Are some white men subconsciously upset that the world is becoming less about them? I don't think so, but I just can't find out why anyone would be making the arguments some of you are making.

The male video makes a slight point but doesn't prove much or validate much of an argument at all. It's different. That is not the experience of every decent looking guy (as is the case for women). That's the experience of a model-tier guy wearing a short sleeve white T shirt on a day so cold that everyone else has a jacket on, who also has his crotch stuffed.

Don't bother............ they neglect all of this because they can see how the power they hold over women it is slowly fading away, since more and more women are voicing out their opinions and fighting to have their rights recognized.

The loss of patriarchal rights they believe they still hold over women hurts them, terrifies them and makes them act immature, hence the ridiculous responses and the overall reactions from most of them like "lol", "bitches belong to the kitchen" and in general, joking about the issue in a lousy attempt to degrade it and make it look like some exaggeration "those crazy feminist are trying to impose to society."

The male video is UTTERLY FAKE... did you see that part where some girl turns around to look at him, stares at him for few seconds and the boyfriend hits her to come back to her senses, in a way that is clownish, like a comedy show? Nothing faker than that shit...

I say lets stop trying to make these neardenthal understand this issue because, at the moment, they cannot react in any other way. They feel under attack, they are losing power and they can sense it. They are scared to lose their masculinity and to lose status among their peers, who pressure each other to see which one screams louder at certain girl, and who gets more pussy in the street..... Iimagine, how else are they going to show off their "macho ways" if they cannot show off their male power in the streets anymore?

Rape is bad, street harassment is bad, hitting a women is bad...... what else is left for the neardenthal to do other than be nice, be a gentleman and actually care about a woman? Holy crap, it has come the time when men have to show some compassion, some love, some tenderness and treat women as equals, but they never learned how to do this and now they feel insecure and unprotected. What will other men think? How will they be validated among their macho peers? Who's the boss now?

LOL.... girls, instead of getting mad, lets all sit down and have fun watching the animal getting cornered and scared by his new situation

Edited November 2, 2014 by tinyrobot

[magisme]

I'm so scared. I'm losing my power.

[Nosaj Thing]

ohlovelyrita all over again.

[AdriftatSea]

What I find really interesting is her clothes were three sizes too small, they looked painted on; so she's dressed like that, walking on her own, in a major city, and not one person attacked her, touched her, nothing. Not one, in 10 hours, in a major city. What happened, she turned a few heads and one creep followed her for awhile. He was probably a pimp trying to find out if she was in the game because she certainly looked like she was.

Let me explain more, of course she wasn't attacked or touched. Why wouldn't someone make a comment to her though? She's pretty, she has a nice shape and she's certainly showing it off. Now, what is wrong with that? Other than the creep that followed her, those men on the street would most likely have been the first men that would protect her if someone tried to hurt her. Those men were not going to hurt her. Flirting is not dangerous. It's the way of the world. Give the men a break.

Edited November 2, 2014 by AdriftatSea

[Nosaj Thing]

What I find really interesting is her clothes were three sizes too small, they looked painted on; so she's dressed like that, walking on her own, in a major city, and not one person attacked her, touched her, nothing. Not one, in 10 hours, in a major city. What happened, she turned a few heads and one creep followed her for awhile. He was probably a pimp trying to find out if she was in the game because she certainly looked like she was.

Get ready to be insulted for making sense. Oh wait, what? You're not... a guy?! HOW COMEEEEEEEEEEEE

[tinyrobot]

What I find really interesting is her clothes were three sizes too small, they looked painted on; so she's dressed like that, walking on her own, in a major city, and not one person attacked her, touched her, nothing. Not one, in 10 hours, in a major city. What happened, she turned a few heads and one creep followed her for awhile. He was probably a pimp trying to find out if she was in the game because she certainly looked like she was.

Let me explain more, of course she wasn't attacked or touched. Why wouldn't someone make a comment to her though? She's pretty, she has a nice shape and she's certainly showing it off. Now, what is wrong with that? Other than the creep that followed her, those men on the street would most likely have been the first men that would protect her if someone tried to hurt her. Those men were not going to hurt her. Flirting is not dangerous. It's the way of the world. Give the men a break.

Can I respectfully ask what is your age?

[Bono]

Regardless of it all, I don't see how it is wrong for me to think that this custom of approaching random women on the street it is outdated, old, boring, aggressive, a sad remains of the patriarchy, that should already be banished and dismissed. As society, we should work on finding new better ways of communication between sexes, and new ways to educate our boys and girls, getting rid of these ancient manners that are useless and damaging of both sexes.

........ unless it's a cute guy of course.

[AdriftatSea]

What I find really interesting is her clothes were three sizes too small, they looked painted on; so she's dressed like that, walking on her own, in a major city, and not one person attacked her, touched her, nothing. Not one, in 10 hours, in a major city. What happened, she turned a few heads and one creep followed her for awhile. He was probably a pimp trying to find out if she was in the game because she certainly looked like she was.

Get ready to be insulted for making sense. Oh wait, what? You're not... a guy?! HOW COMEEEEEEEEEEEE

I added more to my comment. STILL ...I forget people can't see me smile when I'm talking on here! That always diffuses things in real life!

What I find really interesting is her clothes were three sizes too small, they looked painted on; so she's dressed like that, walking on her own, in a major city, and not one person attacked her, touched her, nothing. Not one, in 10 hours, in a major city. What happened, she turned a few heads and one creep followed her for awhile. He was probably a pimp trying to find out if she was in the game because she certainly looked like she was.

Let me explain more, of course she wasn't attacked or touched. Why wouldn't someone make a comment to her though? She's pretty, she has a nice shape and she's certainly showing it off. Now, what is wrong with that? Other than the creep that followed her, those men on the street would most likely have been the first men that would protect her if someone tried to hurt her. Those men were not going to hurt her. Flirting is not dangerous. It's the way of the world. Give the men a break.

Can I respectfully ask what is your age?

51

What I find really interesting is her clothes were three sizes too small, they looked painted on; so she's dressed like that, walking on her own, in a major city, and not one person attacked her, touched her, nothing. Not one, in 10 hours, in a major city. What happened, she turned a few heads and one creep followed her for awhile. He was probably a pimp trying to find out if she was in the game because she certainly looked like she was.

Get ready to be insulted for making sense. Oh wait, what? You're not... a guy?! HOW COMEEEEEEEEEEEE

I added more to my comment. STILL ...I forget people can't see me smile when I'm talking on here! That always diffuses things in real life!

What I find really interesting is her clothes were three sizes too small, they looked painted on; so she's dressed like that, walking on her own, in a major city, and not one person attacked her, touched her, nothing. Not one, in 10 hours, in a major city. What happened, she turned a few heads and one creep followed her for awhile. He was probably a pimp trying to find out if she was in the game because she certainly looked like she was.

Let me explain more, of course she wasn't attacked or touched. Why wouldn't someone make a comment to her though? She's pretty, she has a nice shape and she's certainly showing it off. Now, what is wrong with that? Other than the creep that followed her, those men on the street would most likely have been the first men that would protect her if someone tried to hurt her. Those men were not going to hurt her. Flirting is not dangerous. It's the way of the world. Give the men a break.

Can I respectfully ask what is your age?

51

Go ahead... I'm ready. Doubt if I'll bite. I DVR'd SNL. And I have 3 daughters. So I DO know what I'm speaking of!

You will never see my daughters walking down a city street dressed in clothes that look painted on! And no, it's not the woman's fault in situations of rape. But this woman wasn't raped. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. When in Rome... she wasn't dressed for city street walking. You can't expect to walk down a street in a bathing suit and people not look at you. Some things are just carried too far.

But I look 35...

That's it? You don't have anything?? Nothing... I really do look 35.

Edited November 2, 2014 by AdriftatSea

[tinyrobot]

Regardless of it all, I don't see how it is wrong for me to think that this custom of approaching random women on the street it is outdated, old, boring, aggressive, a sad remains of the patriarchy, that should already be banished and dismissed. As society, we should work on finding new better ways of communication between sexes, and new ways to educate our boys and girls, getting rid of these ancient manners that are useless and damaging of both sexes.

........ unless it's a cute guy of course.

You know what? It will never be a cute guy because those men are usually ALPHA MALE and alpha male get women in other ways that do not expose them as desperate animals.

[SoulMonster]

It's beyond hypocritical because women post endless selfies on instagram and twitter and facebook seeking this exact same attention but when a guy says they are beautiful or "damn girl" in person suddenly it's harrassment because why? The type of attention they seek elsewhere is suddenly real and oh no now the type of attention they've been craving has been given in person and the guy who gave the attention is a sick fuck! PLEASE!

So because SOME women post selfies EVERY women should accept unwanted and uninvited attention? Wow. Just wow.

[SoulMonster]

I haven't paid attention lately, but is the argument now that since men might also be on the receiving end of uninvited and unwelcome comments from female strangers, this somehow invalidates the criticism against men who do the same towards women?

[Satanisk_Slakt]

The women that has posted in this thread so far are Alfie, MB, TinyRobot, P4A, Lio, Angelica, Orsys, FuddMcKagan and AdriftatSea. Did I miss anyone? That's 9 women anyway. You're going to tell us that just because one out of nine women has a different view than the rest their EXPERIENCES on the matter are incorrect?

As for Adrift's argument, it's stupid in my opinion. You might as well say that women should have Burqas and Niqabs because if not they are too slutty and thus deserves to be harassed.

[magisme]

Once again, said nothing even close to what you guys are claiming I said. What a surprise.

This thread is so telling.

[Len Cnut]

The women that has posted in this thread so far are Alfie, MB, TinyRobot, P4A, Lio, Angelica, Orsys, FuddMcKagan and AdriftatSea. Did I miss anyone? That's 9 women anyway. You're going to tell us that just because one out of nine women has a different view than the rest their EXPERIENCES on the matter are incorrect?

No but it does indicate that in a world with more than 10 women in it there is immense possibility for a pretty sizeable disparity. Also, it's not really about being correct is it, it's about the fact that a range of people have different responses...and thats sort of the crux of the argument, isn't it? Men not appreciating that or not being sensitive enough or discerning enough (or giving a fuck often ) about how to approach whom and when 'x' is appropriate, if at all.

The fact that this thread has sort of culminated in looking for a winner, a definitive answer is kinda the heart of sexism itself. Y'know, trying to settle on a blanket fuckin' thing where it's 'OK, so birds like 'x' ', isn't that kinda identical to objectifying? Wouldn't a blanket 'respect' be a kind of objectification too? Sort of?

The answer is that there is no correct answer cuz people, regardless of whether they get in funny moods once a month, are individuals and should be treated as such and thats the real thing that nobody wants to deal with, the effort, the going out of your way and engaging your own emotions and sensitiivities to guage what kind of a person it is you are approaching, to not objectify them, to seek to make some kind of connection that people that want just one straight answer are avoiding.

Every bloke in the world shouldn't whistle and howl or shout 'smile, it makes your tits perk up!' to girls when they pass them in the street anymore than you should walk around like a weenie, look at your feet and shitting your pants every time a girl walks by because looking in her direction might be 'harassment'.

Also, I'm a heterosexual male, i'm genetically predisposed to fancy birds, i ain't doing it on purpose (you're doing it to me ) so like, y'know, sorry but if you're pretty I'm gonna notice you, what i won't do is accost you on the street but you gotta get this straight here, a guy thats attracted to a girl that 'approaches' her like those dudes were and a guy that does his utmost to totally ignore her even though he's seen her and just look straightahead and focus like fuck on not acting affected is actually doing the EXACT SAME thing, they are essentially responses to the fact that you're stirring his balls, the internal processes, mentally, biologically etc are the same shit.

Now I appreciate that as long as he doesn't get up in your shit then the rest is their business but I mean like...that doesn't actually solve anything and furthermore, quite frankly, the biggest fucker is more likely to be the one saying the least because whats demanded of him is the repression of his responses and usually the one that needs tethering in is the more fucked up one.

I don't agree with repressing human emotion, i think it gives rise to a weirdness and hang ups and mental illness. Now to be quite clear here I don't consider not approaching a girl in a way that is gonna make her feel put upon a form of repression, what Im talking about some of whats been suggested here.

The way, as far as i see it, is to come out and play but assess each person, each situation and develop your own people skills to be able to tell as many kinds of different human responses as possible so that you yourself are better equipped to discern the difference between the shits.

And most importantly, cuz this gets guys EVERY time, don't give up on the shit just cuz you fuck up a couple of times, it's character-building and you're becoming less of a cunt, trust me

Edited November 2, 2014 by Lennie Godber