Job advice needed please.

[Gracii Guns]

Edit: after reading this, see my post below for extra context. Sorry.

I have been looking for a job for the last 18 months. I specialise in an area that's very specific and there are very few jobs in the field. Today I interviewed for a job doing exactly what I do in my current role but in a better location, for a better salary, with definite options for quick career progression.

Google Maps took me to the wrong place, so I called to apologise and ask if they could wait another 20 minutes for me. They were really cool about it very kindly sent someone round to collect me in their car.

In the car, I asked "how many people does the company employ?" and the chap driving went through a list of people, then said word for word:

"...and there's Joanna who's going on maternity leave soon. I'm not saying Joanna's not lovely, but the lads here like to see a dolly bird".

I got into the interview, they loved my work and agreed that I'd fit into the role really well, and decided they'd offer me a second interview. Something else threw me, though.

I wrote my dissertation on design within British party politics, then formatted it into a designed publication to demonstrate I could typeset extended editorial. The content of the writing was unbiased. I showed the interviewer the piece, which he seemed to like. I knew a question was coming. It wasn't "that's interesting, what were your findings from this investigation?" It was: "where do you lay on the political spectrum?"

I told him that that was a very unusual question to ask in an interview, then said that I won't answer specifically, but said that my views depend on the individuals running on a constituency basis. (Non-specific, but smart enough answer).

So now I'm in a position where my following options could be:

A) Go to the second interview, get offered the job (likely) and not mention it again.

B) Go the second interview, and mention both problems after a job offer. (Giving me ground to negotiate on).

C) Turn down the second interview, you can work with better people than that.

D) Go to the second interview, and get turned down. Never get chance to tell them why I don't want to work for them.

One thing I definitely want to do is discuss both points with the MD. The problem is, the question "is there a culture of institutional sexism here, or is it just that guy?" is going to always be answered with "oh, it's just that guy who's living in the '70s". So I won't find out until I'm employed by them anyway.

What would you do, mygnr? Can interviewes complain about staff before they work there? Thanks for any advice you have.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Gracii Guns

[The Sandman]

A) Go to the second interview, get offered the job (likely) and not mention it again.

[Chris1989]

I am willing to sacrifice my morals to get my foot in the door.

[Lithium]

You just gotta keep livin, man. L-I-V-I-N.

[Facekicker]

Take the job and say nothing.

[Apollo]

If you have been trying to get a job in your field for 18 months with no success...........and this job offers better pay, better living options and is in your field...............this is a no-brainer.

Take it.

You don't have to stay there forever. Use it to learn and improve your skills and resume.

And once there you'll get a better feel for how things really are. And if there is a sexism problem, maybe you can be the person who helps educate them and you might help them become a better company. You might be the light of change.

If not - put in a couple years and advance to another company.

[Dazey]

If you have been trying to get a job in your field for 18 months with no success...........and this job offers better pay, better living options and is in your field...............this is a no-brainer.

Take it.

You don't have to stay there forever. Use it to learn and improve your skills and resume.

And once there you'll get a better feel for how things really are. And if there is a sexism problem, maybe you can be the person who helps educate them and you might help them become a better company. You might be the light of change.

If not - put in a couple years and advance to another company.

Was going to reply but this pretty much covers what I was going to say.

[AxlisOld]

You could take the job and realize that some people are jackasses, counting your money to distract yourself from it;

or you could be poor and pat yourself on the back because you have principles.

Gee, seems like a tough choice.

[Gracii Guns]

I'll just clarify, it is a touch choice because,

Although the money is better, it might not make my life noticeably better. It's an extra £1.5k before tax. I'm not going to be reminding myself that it's all worth is so I can have that helicopter and jacuzzi at home.

I'll save around £30 a month on commuting costs.

Although the journey is shorter in miles, I've just checked the train times, I'll arrive home a whole 4 minutes sooner than I usually do on an evening.

What the job still offers me is career progression, which there is absolutely no chance of in my current role. And a change is as good as a rest, as they say.

My concern with all this is not principles for the sake of them; it's because I think everyone should be treated professionally within a professional environment. If they're behaving unprofessionally in some circumstances, I'd worry about the attitude they take towards running their business.

If I take it, I'd like do to as Groghan says and be the internal change. It probably is just one or two idiots.

Edit: sorry if the above extra info contextualises it to a different matter, after all that reading you did in the first post!

Edited December 1, 2014 by Gracii Guns

[MB.]

Didn't you had another interview tomorrow with another company? Wait how that goes and then decide your next steps.

Edited December 1, 2014 by MB.

[Gracii Guns]

Didn't you had another interview tomorrow with another company? Wait how that goes and then decide your next steps.

Yes, I have one on Wednesday. I think my prospects of getting that one are much slimmer than this though.

Good advice.

[Facekicker]

Working with idiots is part of every job. If not, you're probably the idiot.

[username]

Edit: after reading this, see my post below for extra context. Sorry.

I have been looking for a job for the last 18 months. I specialise in an area that's very specific and there are very few jobs in the field. Today I interviewed for a job doing exactly what I do in my current role but in a better location, for a better salary, with definite options for quick career progression.

Google Maps took me to the wrong place, so I called to apologise and ask if they could wait another 20 minutes for me. They were really cool about it very kindly sent someone round to collect me in their car.

In the car, I asked "how many people does the company employ?" and the chap driving went through a list of people, then said word for word:

"...and there's Joanna who's going on maternity leave soon. I'm not saying Joanna's not lovely, but the lads here like to see a dolly bird".

I got into the interview, they loved my work and agreed that I'd fit into the role really well, and decided they'd offer me a second interview. Something else threw me, though.

I wrote my dissertation on design within British party politics, then formatted it into a designed publication to demonstrate I could typeset extended editorial. The content of the writing was unbiased. I showed the interviewer the piece, which he seemed to like. I knew a question was coming. It wasn't "that's interesting, what were your findings from this investigation?" It was: "where do you lay on the political spectrum?"

I told him that that was a very unusual question to ask in an interview, then said that I won't answer specifically, but said that my views depend on the individuals running on a constituency basis. (Non-specific, but smart enough answer).

So now I'm in a position where my following options could be:

A) Go to the second interview, get offered the job (likely) and not mention it again.

B) Go the second interview, and mention both problems after a job offer. (Giving me ground to negotiate on).

C) Turn down the second interview, you can work with better people than that.

D) Go to the second interview, and get turned down. Never get chance to tell them why I don't want to work for them.

One thing I definitely want to do is discuss both points with the MD. The problem is, the question "is there a culture of institutional sexism here, or is it just that guy?" is going to always be answered with "oh, it's just that guy who's living in the '70s". So I won't find out until I'm employed by them anyway.

What would you do, mygnr? Can interviewes complain about staff before they work there? Thanks for any advice you have.

Grace, in the end what you do isn't what makes your job fun. Yes, it's a big piece of it, but the most important thing that makes your job fun is the people you do it with and the environment and atmosphere at work. You're going to be spending roughly 5 days a week with these people. That's at least 40 hours, probably 50 if you count breaks and maybe some overtime. So I can't really stress enough how important it is to get a good feeling/vibe of these people. Yes, you've spent a long time looking, but looking for a job for another year (or 3) is still better than hating 8 or 9 hours of your day every day. At the end of the day I'd rather do a shit job with great people than a great job with terrible people. There's bound to be an asshole or two wherever you end up working, but unless you're a proctologist (also a very specific and tight field, so who knows) you don't want to be around a lot of assholes all the time.

Right, that said, I'd at least be upfront about anything that made you uncomfortable and maybe even inquire whether that's the main attitude there. Yes, you Brits are very reserved (compared to us Dutchies anyway) when it comes to personal questions, but you have your rights. At least then you can speak your mind. Maybe you'll mutually agree that you and them aren't a good match. Maybe you got off on the wrong foot. But the important thing in my opinion is to be honest and upfront. You shouldn't take it just because it's there. If you do and you hate it, you'll regret not being honest in the first place. Like I said, you'll have to be around them for most of your waking hours every day. So put yourself first. Especially if there are more opportunities you're working on.

Edited December 1, 2014 by username

[alfierose]

I agree with what Groghan said in principle but working in an environment you hate is soul sapping even for a short amount of time and in some situations it can end up being difficult to get out. Monday mornings come around really fast!

I would go to the second interview and ask the questions you have asked here. If they take offence or don't offer you the job because of it then you have probably had a lucky escape.

If you didn't currently have a job and we're struggling to survive then it would be a little different. I understand you wanting to advance your career but think carefully. If their attitude to young female staff is poor then how much advancement will there realistically be?

[Apollo]

Edited........deleted.............sent via PM instead.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Groghan

[Apollo]

I agree with what Groghan said in principle but working in an environment you hate is soul sapping even for a short amount of time and in some situations it can end up being difficult to get out. Monday mornings come around really fast!

I would go to the second interview and ask the questions you have asked here. If they take offence or don't offer you the job because of it then you have probably had a lucky escape.

If you didn't currently have a job and we're struggling to survive then it would be a little different. I understand you wanting to advance your career but think carefully. If their attitude to young female staff is poor then how much advancement will there realistically be?

That's quite the jump!

To go from a couple comments by two guys at a company to "working in an environment that you hate is soul sapping."

There are people on my floor that I hate - but I don't let those 1-2 people dominate my entire 8-hour day. We are responsible for our own happiness or unhappiness. Gracii needs to decide her own faith and destiny and not let a couple dweebs effect her entire life.

The "driver" made a bad attempt at flirting with mygnr's "hottest" female poster.

And then somebody in the interview asked what her real feelings were about an essay she had written............one that she said was written to not express her opinion, but to show both sides of a situation. I think in that case most of us would be curious as to which side the writer believed was correct or incorrect.

To take those two unrelated incidents and turn them into a soul-sapping hate-filled working environment seems like a bit of stretch.

[Len Cnut]

Yeah Grace, fuck em, it's all well and good like, having principles and that but every fuckin' workplace is full of nobheads, the whole point, the whole idea of the enterprise of employment is money, thats why you are all there, to earn a pound note (if there was such a thing anymore) and like, it's almost got nothing to do with nothing, y'know what I mean? The sharp cookie in any bunch of like, any workforce is the one who keeps their head down, keeps themselves to themselves and concentrates fundamentally on the job at hand.

Having said that, if anyone tries getting fuckin' cheeky you kick em right in the bollocks. The more you talk to women though, over a broad spectrum, especially before but a great in this day and age too, you realise how frequent that shit is. But end of the day your central preoccupation is paying the rent and like, if someone a cock let em be, y'know, it's almost got nothing to do with you until such time as something lands in your lap, which may never come.

If everyone turned down job opportunities cuz one of the workforce looked a bit of a cunt then there wouldn't be a lot of employed people, work is basically a bunch of random fuckin' people we're flung together with that we often have fuck all in common with but have to learn to work with or around or accept on some level, thats just what it is, if someones a cock, fuck em, thats their karma.

[Mysteron]

Go to the second interview, and get the job

Worry about everything else later.

[MB.]

I don't really know the answer Gracii. I have done a job with people I disliked a lot. It was no fun at all. However I learned a lot, the job gave me lots of education opportunities. I did the job for a couple of years. The last months were horrible, but I could take all my experience to the job after that.

But you want to work there, cause they can provide career progression. Does that mean in that company or just in general cause you can learn a lot? Do they have an education program or something like that?

Guess you could take the job if the other interview doesn't work out. But you can also stay at your current job and wait for a better opportunity. I must warn you though if you choose the new job, working with people who you dislike is difficult and draining. But learning new things and the experience is also important. Try to figure out, how the other people who work there are. Ask for a little tour or something.

[wasted]

A)

Get that money.

[alfierose]

I agree with what Groghan said in principle but working in an environment you hate is soul sapping even for a short amount of time and in some situations it can end up being difficult to get out. Monday mornings come around really fast!

I would go to the second interview and ask the questions you have asked here. If they take offence or don't offer you the job because of it then you have probably had a lucky escape.

If you didn't currently have a job and we're struggling to survive then it would be a little different. I understand you wanting to advance your career but think carefully. If their attitude to young female staff is poor then how much advancement will there realistically be?

That's quite the jump!

To go from a couple comments by two guys at a company to "working in an environment that you hate is soul sapping."

There are people on my floor that I hate - but I don't let those 1-2 people dominate my entire 8-hour day. We are responsible for our own happiness or unhappiness. Gracii needs to decide her own faith and destiny and not let a couple dweebs effect her entire life.

The "driver" made a bad attempt at flirting with mygnr's "hottest" female poster.

And then somebody in the interview asked what her real feelings were about an essay she had written............one that she said was written to not express her opinion, but to show both sides of a situation. I think in that case most of us would be curious as to which side the writer believed was correct or incorrect.

To take those two unrelated incidents and turn them into a soul-sapping hate-filled working environment seems like a bit of stretch.

I was just speaking hypothetically. She needs to raise her concerns at the second interview to make an assessment about whether it was just these two individuals or a whole workplace culture, then make a decision from there.

Personally I think life is too short to spend 8+ hours a day in an environment you don't like unless you literally have no choice about it but I'm sure Gracii is capable of making her own mind up about the cost/benefits of taking the job.

I hope it works out well, it might turn out to be great place.

[streak]

Go for the job. You can always move on if you don't like it or the culture at the workplace.

[netcat]

get the job, make them respect yourself, put all the assholes in their place. that's my idea of fighting sexism in the office

[Orsys]

Do the interviews, ask about the culture and management styles. Interviews are good to give you more info.

Keep your eye on your overall plan. Does the job move you in that direction? Don't worry if there are idiots working there. As others have said there are idiots everywhere. You set your own boundaries.

[Len Cnut]

get the job, make them respect yourself, put all the assholes in their place. that's my idea of fighting sexism in the office

My idea would involve page 3 models with machine guns

(Sorry, i had to! )