New album sales?

[wasted]

I've read Chinese Whispers. They makes some mistakes. Not supporting the 99 album, Zutaut/Beavan thought it was fine. No need for RTB. but after they re-record it at least support it when Axl says its ready to mix. Don't send in Ezrin with his opinion. Iovine should have told him if Axl says he ready. mistake. 2004 release Ultimatum. Even the Best Buy deal should have overseen by label much more. Label should have helped with a video. Mismanagement, lack of support, greed.

[Apollo]

I've read Chinese Whispers. They makes some mistakes. Not supporting the 99 album, Zutaut/Beavan thought it was fine. No need for RTB. but after they re-record it at least support it when Axl says its ready to mix. Don't send in Ezrin with his opinion. Iovine should have told him if Axl says he ready. mistake. 2004 release Ultimatum. Even the Best Buy deal should have overseen by label much more. Label should have helped with a video. Mismanagement, lack of support, greed.

You do realize how much money was spent on CD and how many deadline Axl missed and how many people he fired, yes? Seriously bub, you might be the only person in the world who doesn't work for Axl that can spin the debacle that is CD into somehow not being Axl's fault.

You are assuming that Axl turned in a quality product in 99 or whenever producers listened to it. With millions of dollars invested in the album that label had EVERY right to oversea it and not just now down to Axl. What if he turned in an album full of songs liked scraped, silkworms and Shacklers? You think that's the album a label wanted to recoup its money with and re-introduce GnR back to the world with?

If you sit back and give Axl free reign you are liable to end up spending 5-6 millions of dollars spent and no results 7 years later. Maybe finding out Axl rented and paid for a studio for two years without ever stepping foot in it.

I admire the way you spin things though.

Did the label refuse to fund a video?

[wasted]

I've read Chinese Whispers. They makes some mistakes. Not supporting the 99 album, Zutaut/Beavan thought it was fine. No need for RTB. but after they re-record it at least support it when Axl says its ready to mix. Don't send in Ezrin with his opinion. Iovine should have told him if Axl says he ready. mistake. 2004 release Ultimatum. Even the Best Buy deal should have overseen by label much more. Label should have helped with a video. Mismanagement, lack of support, greed.

You do realize how much money was spent on CD and how many deadline Axl missed and how many people he fired, yes? Seriously bub, you might be the only person in the world who doesn't work for Axl that can spin the debacle that is CD into somehow not being Axl's fault.

You are assuming that Axl turned in a quality product in 99 or whenever producers listened to it. With millions of dollars invested in the album that label had EVERY right to oversea it and not just now down to Axl. What if he turned in an album full of songs liked scraped, silkworms and Shacklers? You think that's the album a label wanted to recoup its money with and re-introduce GnR back to the world with?

If you sit back and give Axl free reign you are liable to end up spending 5-6 millions of dollars spent and no results 7 years later. Maybe finding out Axl rented and paid for a studio for two years without ever stepping foot in it.

I admire the way you spin things though.

Did the label refuse to fund a video?

Yes they told Axl not bother making one.

Beavan said that the 99 record was fine and the 08 isn't much different actually.

In 99 they only spent 4 mil on the record. It was going to sell 4-5 mil. Zutaut has said the label wanted to sell 20 million records, they thought there was no hit. Which maybe true. Tommy confirms this saying the label were saying make it better. Iovine suggests bringing in RTB.

Then they spend 10 million dollars on the re-record. Now they are in the shit really in 2000. 14 mil in the hole. Axl says ready to mix. Iovine calls in Ezrin. And he says only 2-3 songs. Well done!

I'm not sure where record sales start falling but the graph looks bad. Costs going up, sales going down. VR sold in 4-5 mil in 2004? Not enough to balance the CD books?

Label pull plug in 2004. It's dead in the water for them. Axl keeps touring. Sparks some interest with Better leak.

I'm not saying Axl is blameless but the label made a few mistakes. Even if its just indulging Axl early on. Axl did make them a lot of money but the only reason they supported a Slashless GNR is greed. If they reject the industrial 99 album then they have to take some blame for what unfolded.

It's unfortunate how they over extended the project really. The timing of it is frustrating.

Edited April 17, 2015 by wasted

[RandallFlagg]

Well the touring is still successful and I guess it don't matter to casual fans and media outside the bubble that the touring quality has decreased since the 2010 epic world tour, yes we had several tours before that but this was the CD tour to end all tours and full of highlights and actual progress... an album after this was written in the damn stars. I don't think the numbers would be much different than what they would be in 2016 though to be honest.

[wasted]

Yeah I'm not sure record sales would be worse over a year or two. And touring wise they have an audience that won't vanish.

[nickzark]

But i believe that a new album if after one year has sold 2.000.000 copies it would be very good..If we count and digidal downloads the numbers will be higher

Are you sure official digital downloads don't count?

Υes as i know they count only the cd.not digital downloads

[Apollo]

I've read Chinese Whispers. They makes some mistakes. Not supporting the 99 album, Zutaut/Beavan thought it was fine. No need for RTB. but after they re-record it at least support it when Axl says its ready to mix. Don't send in Ezrin with his opinion. Iovine should have told him if Axl says he ready. mistake. 2004 release Ultimatum. Even the Best Buy deal should have overseen by label much more. Label should have helped with a video. Mismanagement, lack of support, greed.

You do realize how much money was spent on CD and how many deadline Axl missed and how many people he fired, yes? Seriously bub, you might be the only person in the world who doesn't work for Axl that can spin the debacle that is CD into somehow not being Axl's fault.

You are assuming that Axl turned in a quality product in 99 or whenever producers listened to it. With millions of dollars invested in the album that label had EVERY right to oversea it and not just now down to Axl. What if he turned in an album full of songs liked scraped, silkworms and Shacklers? You think that's the album a label wanted to recoup its money with and re-introduce GnR back to the world with?

If you sit back and give Axl free reign you are liable to end up spending 5-6 millions of dollars spent and no results 7 years later. Maybe finding out Axl rented and paid for a studio for two years without ever stepping foot in it.

I admire the way you spin things though.

Did the label refuse to fund a video?

Yes they told Axl not bother making one.

Beavan said that the 99 record was fine and the 08 isn't much different actually.

In 99 they only spent 4 mil on the record. It was going to sell 4-5 mil. Zutaut has said the label wanted to sell 20 million records, they thought there was no hit. Which maybe true. Tommy confirms this saying the label were saying make it better. Iovine suggests bringing in RTB.

Then they spend 10 million dollars on the re-record. Now they are in the shit really in 2000. 14 mil in the hole. Axl says ready to mix. Iovine calls in Ezrin. And he says only 2-3 songs. Well done!

I'm not sure where record sales start falling but the graph looks bad. Costs going up, sales going down. VR sold in 4-5 mil in 2004? Not enough to balance the CD books?

Label pull plug in 2004. It's dead in the water for them. Axl keeps touring. Sparks some interest with Better leak.

I'm not saying Axl is blameless but the label made a few mistakes. Even if its just indulging Axl early on. Axl did make them a lot of money but the only reason they supported a Slashless GNR is greed. If they reject the industrial 99 album then they have to take some blame for what unfolded.

It's unfortunate how they over extended the project really. The timing of it is frustrating.

But why do you say that Beaven's assessment of the record is accurate and we should take his word for it.......but then you don't give Erzin the same respect? Beaven says it was good, Erzin says it wasn't - why should the label have listened to one and not the other. I'm not really familiar with either guy's background, so maybe Beaven is an extreme album-whisperer and Erzin in a complete hack - I have no idea! You might know more about that than I do.

The label ended up being right though - there wasn't a hit.

How did Axl plow through four million and then ten million dollars though? Bands are making complete albums now in their home studios. Do you think Slash's World of Fire needed 14 or 4 million dollars to create? Serious question, how in the hell does a band spend 14 million dollars to create an album? It seems like Bumblefoot is involved in 2-3 bands this year that will put out an album (including his solo stuff) - will he be spending 5-6 million dollars to create that music?

I would guess the label bailed on a video AFTER Axl bailed on promoting the album. "Hi, this is The Beta. We'll be needing $250,000 dollars to create a music video for the new album..........yes, I know you guys already spent 14 million dollars to create the album...........yes, I know that Axl completely bailed on helping promote the album.............just trust us, we'll take care of it.................listen you sonofabitch, this is The Beta and I'm talking about Axl Rose here. Give us the money, without Axl you guys are nothing. Axl deserves a million dollars for a new video.............hello? hello? I think our phones just got disconnected. Hello?"

[Estranged Coma]

I've read Chinese Whispers. They makes some mistakes. Not supporting the 99 album, Zutaut/Beavan thought it was fine. No need for RTB. but after they re-record it at least support it when Axl says its ready to mix. Don't send in Ezrin with his opinion. Iovine should have told him if Axl says he ready. mistake. 2004 release Ultimatum. Even the Best Buy deal should have overseen by label much more. Label should have helped with a video. Mismanagement, lack of support, greed.

You do realize how much money was spent on CD and how many deadline Axl missed and how many people he fired, yes? Seriously bub, you might be the only person in the world who doesn't work for Axl that can spin the debacle that is CD into somehow not being Axl's fault.

You are assuming that Axl turned in a quality product in 99 or whenever producers listened to it. With millions of dollars invested in the album that label had EVERY right to oversea it and not just now down to Axl. What if he turned in an album full of songs liked scraped, silkworms and Shacklers? You think that's the album a label wanted to recoup its money with and re-introduce GnR back to the world with?

If you sit back and give Axl free reign you are liable to end up spending 5-6 millions of dollars spent and no results 7 years later. Maybe finding out Axl rented and paid for a studio for two years without ever stepping foot in it.

I admire the way you spin things though.

Did the label refuse to fund a video?

Yes they told Axl not bother making one.

Beavan said that the 99 record was fine and the 08 isn't much different actually.

In 99 they only spent 4 mil on the record. It was going to sell 4-5 mil. Zutaut has said the label wanted to sell 20 million records, they thought there was no hit. Which maybe true. Tommy confirms this saying the label were saying make it better. Iovine suggests bringing in RTB.

Then they spend 10 million dollars on the re-record. Now they are in the shit really in 2000. 14 mil in the hole. Axl says ready to mix. Iovine calls in Ezrin. And he says only 2-3 songs. Well done!

I'm not sure where record sales start falling but the graph looks bad. Costs going up, sales going down. VR sold in 4-5 mil in 2004? Not enough to balance the CD books?

Label pull plug in 2004. It's dead in the water for them. Axl keeps touring. Sparks some interest with Better leak.

I'm not saying Axl is blameless but the label made a few mistakes. Even if its just indulging Axl early on. Axl did make them a lot of money but the only reason they supported a Slashless GNR is greed. If they reject the industrial 99 album then they have to take some blame for what unfolded.

It's unfortunate how they over extended the project really. The timing of it is frustrating.

But why do you say that Beaven's assessment of the record is accurate and we should take his word for it.......but then you don't give Erzin the same respect? Beaven says it was good, Erzin says it wasn't - why should the label have listened to one and not the other. I'm not really familiar with either guy's background, so maybe Beaven is an extreme album-whisperer and Erzin in a complete hack - I have no idea! You might know more about that than I do.

The label ended up being right though - there wasn't a hit.

How did Axl plow through four million and then ten million dollars though? Bands are making complete albums now in their home studios. Do you think Slash's World of Fire needed 14 or 4 million dollars to create? Serious question, how in the hell does a band spend 14 million dollars to create an album? It seems like Bumblefoot is involved in 2-3 bands this year that will put out an album (including his solo stuff) - will he be spending 5-6 million dollars to create that music?

I would guess the label bailed on a video AFTER Axl bailed on promoting the album. "Hi, this is The Beta. We'll be needing $250,000 dollars to create a music video for the new album..........yes, I know you guys already spent 14 million dollars to create the album...........yes, I know that Axl completely bailed on helping promote the album.............just trust us, we'll take care of it.................listen you sonofabitch, this is The Beta and I'm talking about Axl Rose here. Give us the money, without Axl you guys are nothing. Axl deserves a million dollars for a new video.............hello? hello? I think our phones just got disconnected. Hello?"

The failure to me is not that the label didn't think there was a hit, it was the fact the label believed that Axl with a brand new cast of crazy looking dudes was gona make a hit. Also the label had to have noticed the industry changing in terms of albums sales right? Someone had to have foretold the constant fall of album sales, so why not get what you could? This kinda leads you to believe label thought it was reunion or bust once they heard the 99 album

[Apollo]

I've read Chinese Whispers. They makes some mistakes. Not supporting the 99 album, Zutaut/Beavan thought it was fine. No need for RTB. but after they re-record it at least support it when Axl says its ready to mix. Don't send in Ezrin with his opinion. Iovine should have told him if Axl says he ready. mistake. 2004 release Ultimatum. Even the Best Buy deal should have overseen by label much more. Label should have helped with a video. Mismanagement, lack of support, greed.

You do realize how much money was spent on CD and how many deadline Axl missed and how many people he fired, yes? Seriously bub, you might be the only person in the world who doesn't work for Axl that can spin the debacle that is CD into somehow not being Axl's fault.

You are assuming that Axl turned in a quality product in 99 or whenever producers listened to it. With millions of dollars invested in the album that label had EVERY right to oversea it and not just now down to Axl. What if he turned in an album full of songs liked scraped, silkworms and Shacklers? You think that's the album a label wanted to recoup its money with and re-introduce GnR back to the world with?

If you sit back and give Axl free reign you are liable to end up spending 5-6 millions of dollars spent and no results 7 years later. Maybe finding out Axl rented and paid for a studio for two years without ever stepping foot in it.

I admire the way you spin things though.

Did the label refuse to fund a video?

Yes they told Axl not bother making one.

Beavan said that the 99 record was fine and the 08 isn't much different actually.

In 99 they only spent 4 mil on the record. It was going to sell 4-5 mil. Zutaut has said the label wanted to sell 20 million records, they thought there was no hit. Which maybe true. Tommy confirms this saying the label were saying make it better. Iovine suggests bringing in RTB.

Then they spend 10 million dollars on the re-record. Now they are in the shit really in 2000. 14 mil in the hole. Axl says ready to mix. Iovine calls in Ezrin. And he says only 2-3 songs. Well done!

I'm not sure where record sales start falling but the graph looks bad. Costs going up, sales going down. VR sold in 4-5 mil in 2004? Not enough to balance the CD books?

Label pull plug in 2004. It's dead in the water for them. Axl keeps touring. Sparks some interest with Better leak.

I'm not saying Axl is blameless but the label made a few mistakes. Even if its just indulging Axl early on. Axl did make them a lot of money but the only reason they supported a Slashless GNR is greed. If they reject the industrial 99 album then they have to take some blame for what unfolded.

It's unfortunate how they over extended the project really. The timing of it is frustrating.

But why do you say that Beaven's assessment of the record is accurate and we should take his word for it.......but then you don't give Erzin the same respect? Beaven says it was good, Erzin says it wasn't - why should the label have listened to one and not the other. I'm not really familiar with either guy's background, so maybe Beaven is an extreme album-whisperer and Erzin in a complete hack - I have no idea! You might know more about that than I do.

The label ended up being right though - there wasn't a hit.

How did Axl plow through four million and then ten million dollars though? Bands are making complete albums now in their home studios. Do you think Slash's World of Fire needed 14 or 4 million dollars to create? Serious question, how in the hell does a band spend 14 million dollars to create an album? It seems like Bumblefoot is involved in 2-3 bands this year that will put out an album (including his solo stuff) - will he be spending 5-6 million dollars to create that music?

I would guess the label bailed on a video AFTER Axl bailed on promoting the album. "Hi, this is The Beta. We'll be needing $250,000 dollars to create a music video for the new album..........yes, I know you guys already spent 14 million dollars to create the album...........yes, I know that Axl completely bailed on helping promote the album.............just trust us, we'll take care of it.................listen you sonofabitch, this is The Beta and I'm talking about Axl Rose here. Give us the money, without Axl you guys are nothing. Axl deserves a million dollars for a new video.............hello? hello? I think our phones just got disconnected. Hello?"

The failure to me is not that the label didn't think there was a hit, it was the fact the label believed that Axl with a brand new cast of crazy looking dudes was gona make a hit. Also the label had to have noticed the industry changing in terms of albums sales right? Someone had to have foretold the constant fall of album sales, so why not get what you could? This kinda leads you to believe label thought it was reunion or bust once they heard the 99 album

Total speculation from both of us.

GnR could have handed in an album full of songs like Scraped, Silkworms, and Shacklers.

Axl literally had Scraped and The General in his hand and decided that it would be better to put Scraped out first.

[DieselDaisy]

Bob Ezrin's credentials speak for themselves, Pink Floyd The Wall, Kiss Destroyer, all of the classic Alice Cooper albums, Peter Gabriel. Beavan socialises in industrial rock circles, NIN, Marilyn Manson, etc.

[maynard]

Bob Erzin also helped Trent Reznor with The Fragile. The Fragile is a beautiful double album with amazing sound textures and features many styles of music mixed together, lots of layering, etc. It's like Chinese Democracy, except it's good.

[Nosaj Thing]

Bob Erzin also helped Trent Reznor with The Fragile. The Fragile is a beautiful double album with amazing sound textures and features many styles of music mixed together, lots of layering, etc. It's like Chinese Democracy, except it's good.

Great album. Something fake Trent Reznor wannabe aka Axl Rose would never accomplish in his life.

[wasted]

I guess the point is that the label said they wanted the album out. Axl is ready to mix. Beavan says there was a record. So why not go with that. They can have little complaints.

I just don't think they wanted to sink more money into a cd they already sold to Best buy. Just for appearances.

[wasted]

I've read Chinese Whispers. They makes some mistakes. Not supporting the 99 album, Zutaut/Beavan thought it was fine. No need for RTB. but after they re-record it at least support it when Axl says its ready to mix. Don't send in Ezrin with his opinion. Iovine should have told him if Axl says he ready. mistake. 2004 release Ultimatum. Even the Best Buy deal should have overseen by label much more. Label should have helped with a video. Mismanagement, lack of support, greed.

You do realize how much money was spent on CD and how many deadline Axl missed and how many people he fired, yes? Seriously bub, you might be the only person in the world who doesn't work for Axl that can spin the debacle that is CD into somehow not being Axl's fault.

You are assuming that Axl turned in a quality product in 99 or whenever producers listened to it. With millions of dollars invested in the album that label had EVERY right to oversea it and not just now down to Axl. What if he turned in an album full of songs liked scraped, silkworms and Shacklers? You think that's the album a label wanted to recoup its money with and re-introduce GnR back to the world with?

If you sit back and give Axl free reign you are liable to end up spending 5-6 millions of dollars spent and no results 7 years later. Maybe finding out Axl rented and paid for a studio for two years without ever stepping foot in it.

I admire the way you spin things though.

Did the label refuse to fund a video?

Yes they told Axl not bother making one.

Beavan said that the 99 record was fine and the 08 isn't much different actually.

In 99 they only spent 4 mil on the record. It was going to sell 4-5 mil. Zutaut has said the label wanted to sell 20 million records, they thought there was no hit. Which maybe true. Tommy confirms this saying the label were saying make it better. Iovine suggests bringing in RTB.

Then they spend 10 million dollars on the re-record. Now they are in the shit really in 2000. 14 mil in the hole. Axl says ready to mix. Iovine calls in Ezrin. And he says only 2-3 songs. Well done!

I'm not sure where record sales start falling but the graph looks bad. Costs going up, sales going down. VR sold in 4-5 mil in 2004? Not enough to balance the CD books?

Label pull plug in 2004. It's dead in the water for them. Axl keeps touring. Sparks some interest with Better leak.

I'm not saying Axl is blameless but the label made a few mistakes. Even if its just indulging Axl early on. Axl did make them a lot of money but the only reason they supported a Slashless GNR is greed. If they reject the industrial 99 album then they have to take some blame for what unfolded.

It's unfortunate how they over extended the project really. The timing of it is frustrating.

But why do you say that Beaven's assessment of the record is accurate and we should take his word for it.......but then you don't give Erzin the same respect? Beaven says it was good, Erzin says it wasn't - why should the label have listened to one and not the other. I'm not really familiar with either guy's background, so maybe Beaven is an extreme album-whisperer and Erzin in a complete hack - I have no idea! You might know more about that than I do.

The label ended up being right though - there wasn't a hit.

How did Axl plow through four million and then ten million dollars though? Bands are making complete albums now in their home studios. Do you think Slash's World of Fire needed 14 or 4 million dollars to create? Serious question, how in the hell does a band spend 14 million dollars to create an album? It seems like Bumblefoot is involved in 2-3 bands this year that will put out an album (including his solo stuff) - will he be spending 5-6 million dollars to create that music?

I would guess the label bailed on a video AFTER Axl bailed on promoting the album. "Hi, this is The Beta. We'll be needing $250,000 dollars to create a music video for the new album..........yes, I know you guys already spent 14 million dollars to create the album...........yes, I know that Axl completely bailed on helping promote the album.............just trust us, we'll take care of it.................listen you sonofabitch, this is The Beta and I'm talking about Axl Rose here. Give us the money, without Axl you guys are nothing. Axl deserves a million dollars for a new video.............hello? hello? I think our phones just got disconnected. Hello?"

The failure to me is not that the label didn't think there was a hit, it was the fact the label believed that Axl with a brand new cast of crazy looking dudes was gona make a hit. Also the label had to have noticed the industry changing in terms of albums sales right? Someone had to have foretold the constant fall of album sales, so why not get what you could? This kinda leads you to believe label thought it was reunion or bust once they heard the 99 album

Although they sunk 10 mil into re-recording it with RTB. So the industrial record didnt sound GNR enough. At this point they still hoped to sell 20 mil records. Then after the rerecord Ezrin says only 2-3 songs not ready to mix. This all goes against the idea that the label wanted it out.

That's not to say Axl didn't agree. Remember Del said the album didn't come out until Axl thought it was ready. But that's not to say the label showed enough support either.

We basically got the RTB album 8 years later with a few extra tracks like This I Love, Shacklers, Scraped, Sorry.

[magisme]

So Ezrin says he's willing to work with Axl to do whatever it takes to make the great record he knows he has in him even though CD isn't there yet, and the argument is that they didn't support Axl enough? Got it.

[Apollo]

So Ezrin says he's willing to work with Axl to do whatever it takes to make the great record he knows he has in him even though CD isn't there yet, and the argument is that they didn't support Axl enough? Got it.

That is seriously the way these people think.

[Tom2112]

The label and Axl are both equally to blame. Axl should have first created a solid band, toured with them for a while and then jumped into the studio... not create a band while trying to make a new record, it's a disaster idea and it's obviously not going to have musical chemistry

The label should have been a bit more authoritative, Axl is not the first difficult artist. They should have said we want to see a new band by this time frame, tour with that band, build the new names, and then we can talk about your next record. During and after a successful tour call a meeting, say by this timeframe we would hope for you to have a new record or be very close to completion, we're going to be working on marketing strategies for a release by this timeframe. Will you commit to this?

They basically gave the keys to the kids and got mad when they drove the car into the wall. To think that Axl could have had a record by 1999 is mental, the new band was only put together in 1999!? the earliest CD could have come out in my opinion was 2000... and that obviously didn't happen.

If the album had come out in 1999 or the early 2000s it would have probably sold double what it sold in 2008, the record label got greedy, Axl was lost and unsure how to make a new album and probably struggled with keeping his motivation up to actually make new music... it's easy to forget that he was also constantly dealing with litigations from one thing or another during that time... so he really couldn't have put all his focus into making a new album.

It is of no great surprise that the end result is so disjointed.

One of the more interesting albums ever made with a great back story that needs to be told, and some fantastic songs. My great wish is that someone was filming during the making of and that one day we'll get a condensed film of the making of CD... the condensed film would still be Lord of the rings trilogy long though

Edited April 18, 2015 by Tom2112

[Estranged Coma]

So Ezrin says he's willing to work with Axl to do whatever it takes to make the great record he knows he has in him even though CD isn't there yet, and the argument is that they didn't support Axl enough? Got it.

That is seriously the way these people think.

I don't think anyone is making that case? Atleast not me. I'm making the case that the whole involving Ezrin coming in and saying it's not ready was a mistake. Listening to him saying it's not ready was a mistake. That not going to mixing the record was a mistake. That waiting 8 years only to result in TIL shacklers better and scraped and wat many people see as overproducing of the songs was a mistake. People on here CONSTANTLY use the word overproduced as a negative to axls songs. Well I'm saying Axl didn't want to further fuk with his songs. He said they were done. So the reason they are "overproduced" is due to ezrin and other people telling him his songs ain't ready, lets fuk wit them some more and make them better.

Edit: Actually this might be for my other thread haha not sure how Ezrin how pushed into this one now to?

Edited April 18, 2015 by Estranged Coma

[wasted]

Most people are referring to label support. Like when a 99 record is done with Beavan don't say no hits lets bring in RTB. Say it's great here's x amount for videos and after that we'll back the next record.

Ezrin saying its shit but you can pay me to work on it isn't exactly support it's just getting on the GNR gravy train.

Beavan worked with NIN and Manson can't seeing it being bad just not what the label thought GNR should sound like.

[Rovim]

Most people are referring to label support. Like when a 99 record is done with Beavan don't say no hits lets bring in RTB. Say it's great here's x amount for videos and after that we'll back the next record.

Ezrin saying its shit but you can pay me to work on it isn't exactly support it's just getting on the GNR gravy train.

Beavan worked with NIN and Manson can't seeing it being bad just not what the label thought GNR should sound like.

Axl said he liked the reaction of the label when he delivered the 1999 version of the album to them and they thought it could be better.

I think it's easy to forget it was kinda a shared thing: both the label and Axl were insecure. The label cause they wanted a hit, an album with as little changes as possible maybe and Axl was rebuilding something without Slash, and wanted to take the sound forward as well.

Without Axl's willingness to keep changing the album, adding layers, players, and changing production, I don't think the saga would have taken 10 years.

There were many cases of bands handing over finished albums to labels and fighting to get that version released without any changes. Especially someone in the position of Axl at the time, who has made a shitload of money for the label.

Both the label and Axl wanted to do it in one take: one album that gets it right, not a gradual progression of multiple albums. (one album every 2 or 3 years)

And I don't know what Ezrin did wrong: Axl believed he was a good indicator of where he's at quality wise. Ezrin just gave his opinion and was willing to make some cash while helping Axl out.

Maybe the 2 and a half songs comment was a bit much. Especially if you know how sensitive and insecure Axl is. Especially while making an album like Chinese.

But even Ezrin didn't really understand why Axl held his opinions and taste in such high regard. The Wall man! The Wall.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Rovim

[wasted]

Most people are referring to label support. Like when a 99 record is done with Beavan don't say no hits lets bring in RTB. Say it's great here's x amount for videos and after that we'll back the next record.

Ezrin saying its shit but you can pay me to work on it isn't exactly support it's just getting on the GNR gravy train.

Beavan worked with NIN and Manson can't seeing it being bad just not what the label thought GNR should sound like.

Axl said he liked the reaction of the label when he delivered the 1999 version of the album to them and they thought it could be better.

I think it's easy to forget it was kinda a shared thing: both the label and Axl were insecure. The label cause they wanted a hit, an album with as little changes as possible maybe and Axl was rebuilding something without Slash, and wanted to take the sound forward as well.

Without Axl's willingness to keep changing the album, adding layers, players, and changing production, I don't think the saga would have taken 10 years.

There were many cases of bands handing over finished albums to labels and fighting to get that version released without any changes. Especially someone in the position of Axl at the time, who has made a shitload of money for the label.

Both the label and Axl wanted to do it in one take: one album that gets it right, not a gradual progression of multiple albums. (one album every 2 or 3 years)

And I don't know what Ezrin did wrong: Axl believed he was a good indicator of where he's at quality wise. Ezrin just gave his opinion and was willing to make some cash while helping Axl out.

Maybe the 2 and a half songs comment was a bit much. Especially if you know how sensitive and insecure Axl is. Especially while making an album like Chinese.

But even Ezrin didn't really understand why Axl held his opinions and taste in such high regard. The Wall man! The Wall.

Only in the context of them wanting the album out do I say that. If you see what I mean. The label can have no complaints about the delays is what I said. If you give Axl 10 mil and RTB to re-record then you've only got yourself to blame. No ultimatums necessary.

I get what Ezrin is saying but don't ask The Wall guy his opinion on a Beavan meets RTB album then tell me you have problems getting the record out.

The final record is genius because of this, but did the label recognise this or did they sell Axl out to Best Buy?

Edited April 19, 2015 by wasted

[magisme]

Ezrin didn't agree with Axl. Must have just been out for the cash.

[wasted]

Ezrin didn't agree with Axl. Must have just been out for the cash.

That might have been a bit harsh, it inspired some more work to be done I guess and delayed the record for 8 years. And Axl ultimately agreed with him. It was probably fine for 2000 though. So why is he saying it was a mess when Beavan, RTB, Axl seem to think its fine.

But maybe a piece of the puzzle is missing. Lets say it was a mess and Axl got Costanzo in and they went through it and salvaged it and added a few new songs like Scraped, Sorry, Shacklers, worked up If the World, Better, This I Love. Then add parts by Ron as final touches.

But what if they could have mixed it sold 5 mil records and moved on to the next one?

Edited April 19, 2015 by wasted

[RussTCB]

Ezrin didn't agree with Axl. Must have just been out for the cash.

"Each man has his price Bob, and yours was pretty low"

(you'd know this reference if you'd listened to Amused To Death by now)

[magisme]

I did listen to it once!

I have a 2 hour car ride today. Gonna make it happen.