Satanic Baphomet statue unvealed in Detroit

[SoulMonster]

I do find that religions are constantly concerned with proving that their gods exist.

Or... ?

They gave that up long ago.

[Bumblefeet]

I do find that religions are constantly concerned with proving that their gods exist.

Or... ?

I find that nowadays they are more concerned with losing their tax exemption status, membership decline and having scandals leak. They know they are preaching to the choir when it comes to defending their beliefs.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Bumblefeet

[DieselDaisy]

To ask for ''concrete scientific evidence'' of religion is to ask the wrong things of religion

But that is actually what you need to do if you want to prove that somethign exists outside of peoples' minds. And if you can't do that, then you acknowledge that it is all just mass fantasies.

But then that is why you have the element of 'faith' (I get the feeling I'm going around in circles here?). To be religious requires a leap of faith into something that is not empirically tested. To ask that religions withstand intensive scientific scrutiny is to miss the point entirely.

[Len Cnut]

I'm with Len on this one, that's Joe Louis' fist. That is my favorite statue in the entire freaking state. Shows some respect Zoso, lol. Did you know who's fist that was?

Yeah I know its Joe Louis' fist, but I still think the statue is an eye sore. It'd be like a statue of Robert Plant's lips or something

No cuz Robert Plant is nowhere near on the level of historical importance as Joe Louis, he is not worth the bateria gathered around the base of Joes pubes, one made a load of racket for a bunch of greasers in the 70s, when Joe Louis threw his hands the whole world stopped and watched/listened. Quite literally one of the greatest Americans ever born, I'd come to your town literally just to see that fuckin' fist and bask in its glory and in the knowledge that, finally, Joes getting some kinda love in that country, Joe Louis was a fuckin' Prince...so you show some fuckin' respect Armenian boy or I'll get my mate Michael to tell your bird about what you do to My Little Ponys when shes off for the weekend, you foul pervert

I agree with Len about Joe Louis vs Robert Plant, and I LOVE Led Zeppelin. But man for man, Plant is nowhere near Louis' league. Even if you take the accomplishments of Led Zeppelin and give them all to Plant, and compare Zeppelin to Louis, if still say Joe Louis was more important historically, even over mighty Zeppelin. Sure its a bit of an apples and oranges debate, but honestly only the Beatles MIGHT be on Joe's level historically. His fight against Max Schmeling right before world war 2 is arguably the greatest sporting event in history. Even as great as Ali was, his fights didn't carry the historical importance that Louis vs Schmeling had.

First of all, I'm copying Len's response because I just pissed myself

Second of all, my comment had nothing to do with fame or importance. Its just like, Joe is famous for boxing so they made a fist statue. Robert Plant is famous for singing so it'd be like someone making a statue of his mouth or something.

Idk, I just think the fist looks fucking stupid. They should have made a cooler statue. Like the Howe statue at the Joe is really neat. Something like that with Joe throwing a punch would have been awesome.

*stands up on something high and looks down on ZoSo shaking his head*

[DieselDaisy]

I'm a bit traditional when it comes to statues I'm afraid. That fist just says to me Stalin. I would have preferred a Joe Louis status more like Nelson's column, more Roman. Louisville has a Muhammad Ali centre incidentally. Wonder if it is worth seeing?

[SoulMonster]

To ask for ''concrete scientific evidence'' of religion is to ask the wrong things of religion

But that is actually what you need to do if you want to prove that somethign exists outside of peoples' minds. And if you can't do that, then you acknowledge that it is all just mass fantasies.

But then that is why you have the element of 'faith' (I get the feeling I'm going around in circles here?). To be religious requires a leap of faith into something that is not empirically tested. To ask that religions withstand intensive scientific scrutiny is to miss the point entirely.

It is not unfair to ask theists to acknowledge the glaring absence of any supporting evidence for their beliefs, especially when they on a day to day basis wants us to accommodate their irrational nonsense, like when they object to gay marriage, insist on genital mutilation, refuse to teach scientific theories in school, etc, all more or less religious opinions/actions ultimately derived from a belief in something that simply do not exist in this world. That might not be the point you are making but it is the point that I think is more important.

I'm a bit traditional when it comes to statues I'm afraid.

Wow, but at least you are so progressive on other subjects.

[Dazey]

To ask for ''concrete scientific evidence'' of religion is to ask the wrong things of religion

But that is actually what you need to do if you want to prove that somethign exists outside of peoples' minds. And if you can't do that, then you acknowledge that it is all just mass fantasies.

But then that is why you have the element of 'faith' (I get the feeling I'm going around in circles here?). To be religious requires a leap of faith into something that is not empirically tested. To ask that religions withstand intensive scientific scrutiny is to miss the point entirely.

Not when those same religions try to impose their beliefs on the rest of us.

[Len Cnut]

90,000 people, Dodgers stadium..

'right and a left to the body, right and a left to the head...and Schmeling is down!'

What it must've been like to've been there, phew...although the Billy Conn fight might've been better in terms of a fight. They say you could hear a pin-drop in Harlem that night...for the whole 2 minutes that the fight lasted. All the flash-bulbs going off, knowing that at that time and place in human history probably more human beings across the civilised world were tuned in that any other happening in the world.

And what the party afterwards must've been like...they say like you couldnt get your car through places in NY, it was like all blocked up, people fuckin' chock-a-block all over, not just there but black neighbourhoods all over fuckin' America. They say like these black guys would come gather round the only fuckin' radio in their town or village or even sometimes round the local white landowners place, i remember reading this like Joe won but they couldn't cause a ruckus in the local white boss mans house so they just got down the fuckin' road and you could hear hoots and shouts, imagine the fuckin' blues joints that night, the whiskey, the birds, the bands playing...it must've been fuckin' fantastic

I still love that publicity photo where its Joe Louis in Harlem and all those fuckin' people behind him, the man could just fill the fuckin' streets

Peoples champion

[DieselDaisy]

To ask for ''concrete scientific evidence'' of religion is to ask the wrong things of religion

But that is actually what you need to do if you want to prove that somethign exists outside of peoples' minds. And if you can't do that, then you acknowledge that it is all just mass fantasies.

But then that is why you have the element of 'faith' (I get the feeling I'm going around in circles here?). To be religious requires a leap of faith into something that is not empirically tested. To ask that religions withstand intensive scientific scrutiny is to miss the point entirely.

Not when those same religions try to impose their beliefs on the rest of us.

Just like you're doing here?

You are still asking the wrong questions of religion Soul. You are requiring a belief based on a faith system to empirically prove itself under laboratory conditions. Scientific evidence would render faith an irrelevancy and since most religions are based on faith, your whole argument rather becomes an academic point. Christians of certain Calvinistic persuasions for instance might argue that faith in Christ awards him/her with the mental faculties required from a true 'elect'.

[Iron MikeyJ]

I'm a bit traditional when it comes to statues I'm afraid. That fist just says to me Stalin. I would have preferred a Joe Louis status more like Nelson's column, more Roman. Louisville has a Muhammad Ali centre incidentally. Wonder if it is worth seeing?

In retrospect, I suppose they could have chosen a better way to honor Louis. But I think part of the reason is that a statue of an athlete in a pose is pretty common. While Joe's is very unique and quite large. Most full body statues are what 10-15 feet high, give or take? I think they wanted to put something a little more massive. That's just my guess.

People also forgot that Joe Louis preceeded Jackie Robinson by a good 10-15 years. Even though Jack Johnson was the first major black athlete of importance, he was hated. Joe on the other hand, to Lenny's point, was loved by all. Not to diminish what Jackie Robinson accomplished, but he did It on the shoulders of Joe Louis. He really was the first African American athlete that was embraced by all. He really was the people's champion.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ

[RussTCB]

Idk, I just think the fist looks fucking stupid. They should have made a cooler statue. Like the Howe statue at the Joe is really neat. Something like that with Joe throwing a punch would have been awesome.

Speaking of statues in Detroit.... I swear to God, if they ever put the RoboCop statue up, I'm driving right downtown and knocking it down.

[Len Cnut]

I thought it was fuckin' fantastic, first time i saw it and heard of it, great, what better way than a big motherfuckin' black fist, brilliant. It has black power connotations which is cool too, being as how people like my man Ali, love him though i do he could be bang out of order sometimes, was making like...Uncle Tom comments about him, that shit was out of order. So it's oddly fitting.

Or not I suppose, depending on how you look at it cuz Joe was a serious fuckin' American patriot, he didn't have no truck with the black power peoples and all their anti-American stuff, he was strongly like...an American, really stood by that shit, despite being like, y'know, subject to the actual real shit, real oppression. Shows a lot of character I suppose.

I love it though, a big fuckin' fist, perfect This is a man the IRS crippled, the greatest sportsman in American history, at VERY least top 3, gave SO much for his country despite untold oppression, gave up the heavyweight championship, the richest prize in all sports at that time, to go fight in a war for a country where he was considered a third class citizen and a fucking sub-human, this guy died serving drinks in fuckin' Vegas, he deserves a unique and outstanding monument, he was a fucking shining example of the best of his people and was a true American patriot, despite having every fucking last reason in the world to tell that country to go fuck itself.

Thats what i call character, being a man, being a solid stand up guy. Joe Louis makes me proud to be a human being, he stands to me as testament to the fantastic possibilities of what human beings are capable of. Sure I mean, you have people that cure illnesses and save lives etc but like...I mean like for an unedcuated man, what he did was amazing...for as long as there is a human race people will remember the name Joe Louis Barrow. I find that comforting somehow

Edited July 30, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Iron MikeyJ]

Idk, I just think the fist looks fucking stupid. They should have made a cooler statue. Like the Howe statue at the Joe is really neat. Something like that with Joe throwing a punch would have been awesome.

Speaking of statues in Detroit.... I swear to God, if they ever put the RoboCop statue up, I'm driving right downtown and knocking it down.

I think the reboot took a little steam out of that idea. Fucking reboots, always a disappointment....

[Iron MikeyJ]

On a side note Len, I think ESPN ranked Louis 4th or 5th all time, as American athletes go. It was Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, then Either Joe Louis or Jim Brown. I know thats the top 5 though. As much as I love Jordan, and I really do, now that I think about it, he shouldn't be a head of either Ali or Louis. But I think their rank had more to do with accomplishments (as an athlete) and overall popularity. But if you were to ask me my rank it would be Ali, Louis, Jordan, Ruth, then Jim Brown.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ

[Len Cnut]

On a side note Len, I think ESPN ranked Louis 4th or 5th all time, as American athletes go. It was Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, then Either Joe Louis or Jim Brown. I know thats the top 5 though. As much as I love Jordan, and I really do, now that I think about it, he shouldn't be a head of either Ali or Louis. But I think their rank had more to do with accomplishments (as an athlete) and overall popularity. But if you were to ask me my rank it would be Ali, Louis, Jordan, Ruth, then Jim Brown.

I don't know shit about Michael Jordan, i mean i know he's famous as fuck and he's like...the fucking basketball equivalent of if some English player won the world cup for us and scored 5 goals in the final, he's a serious somebody in basketball, like the fuckin' man...and Babe Ruth, again, I've heard of and am aware that he's the fuckin' big dick in baseball but i can't comment beyond that except to say, maannn, that Joe Louis mantle is a heavy fuckin' thing.

Jim Brown i seen in umpteen fuckin' movies, i know him from movies more than his actual sporting achievements, so he was a badman in NFL too? Cool Jim Brown to me is Slaughter though, always will be

[Iron MikeyJ]

Well when they did that list, it was literally the year after Jordan did his final legendary effort, so he was pretty fresh.

[classicrawker]

On a side note Len, I think ESPN ranked Louis 4th or 5th all time, as American athletes go. It was Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, then Either Joe Louis or Jim Brown. I know thats the top 5 though. As much as I love Jordan, and I really do, now that I think about it, he shouldn't be a head of either Ali or Louis. But I think their rank had more to do with accomplishments (as an athlete) and overall popularity. But if you were to ask me my rank it would be Ali, Louis, Jordan, Ruth, then Jim Brown.

I don't know shit about Michael Jordan, i mean i know he's famous as fuck and he's like...the fucking basketball equivalent of if some English player won the world cup for us and scored 5 goals in the final, he's a serious somebody in basketball, like the fuckin' man...and Babe Ruth, again, I've heard of and am aware that he's the fuckin' big dick in baseball but i can't comment beyond that except to say, maannn, that Joe Louis mantle is a heavy fuckin' thing.

Jim Brown i seen in umpteen fuckin' movies, i know him from movies more than his actual sporting achievements, so he was a badman in NFL too? Cool Jim Brown to me is Slaughter though, always will be

I know this will not mean much to you Len as you are not a baseball fan but there has never been a baseball player as dominant as Babe Ruth. Back in the day he hit more homeruns in a season then every team in baseball did individually. It would be like player today hitting over 200 home runs in a season. He also had a lifetime BA of .342. In addition he could have been a HOF pitcher as he won 20 games twice when the was on the Red Sox before he concentrated on hitting.

There will never be another like him in baseball IMHO.

Edited July 30, 2015 by classicrawker

[Len Cnut]

I know the names of tons of these guys, Lebron, Julius Irving, Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen, Jordan, Denis Rodman, that fuckin' guy with the trainers named after him, whats his fuckin' name now, i can't remember, Kobe Bryant, Wilt the Stilt, Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, tons more...dunno fuck all else about em though So Jordans the man out of all of em? I should fuckin' know more about him, i been buying his trainers for fuckin' years.

[netcat]

To ask for ''concrete scientific evidence'' of religion is to ask the wrong things of religion

But that is actually what you need to do if you want to prove that somethign exists outside of peoples' minds. And if you can't do that, then you acknowledge that it is all just mass fantasies.

But then that is why you have the element of 'faith' (I get the feeling I'm going around in circles here?). To be religious requires a leap of faith into something that is not empirically tested. To ask that religions withstand intensive scientific scrutiny is to miss the point entirely.

Not when those same religions try to impose their beliefs on the rest of us.

just praise the cloven-hoofed lord and say our father prayer backwards and they will be destroyed!!

[Len Cnut]

On a side note Len, I think ESPN ranked Louis 4th or 5th all time, as American athletes go. It was Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, then Either Joe Louis or Jim Brown. I know thats the top 5 though. As much as I love Jordan, and I really do, now that I think about it, he shouldn't be a head of either Ali or Louis. But I think their rank had more to do with accomplishments (as an athlete) and overall popularity. But if you were to ask me my rank it would be Ali, Louis, Jordan, Ruth, then Jim Brown.

I don't know shit about Michael Jordan, i mean i know he's famous as fuck and he's like...the fucking basketball equivalent of if some English player won the world cup for us and scored 5 goals in the final, he's a serious somebody in basketball, like the fuckin' man...and Babe Ruth, again, I've heard of and am aware that he's the fuckin' big dick in baseball but i can't comment beyond that except to say, maannn, that Joe Louis mantle is a heavy fuckin' thing.

Jim Brown i seen in umpteen fuckin' movies, i know him from movies more than his actual sporting achievements, so he was a badman in NFL too? Cool Jim Brown to me is Slaughter though, always will be

I know this will not mean much to you Len as you are not a baseball fan but there has never been a baseball player as dominant as Babe Ruth. Back in the day he hit more homeruns in a season then every team in baseball did individually. It would be like player today hitting over 200 home runs in a season. In addition he could have been a HOF pitcher as he won 20 games twice when the was on the Red Sox before he concentrated on hitting.

There will never be another like him in baseball IMHO.

Yeah, I'm definitely aware that he's a serious somebody. Just these names i guess tend to stick in your head. Mickey Mantle is another but i dunno fuck all about him. And that one Jimmy Stewart made a movie about whoose name escapes me.

I'm derailing this thread to fuck, gonna shut up now!

EDIT: ALLEN IVERSON! There you go, thats that other guys name! Kept thinking Albert something

Edited July 30, 2015 by Len B'stard

[classicrawker]

On a side note Len, I think ESPN ranked Louis 4th or 5th all time, as American athletes go. It was Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, then Either Joe Louis or Jim Brown. I know thats the top 5 though. As much as I love Jordan, and I really do, now that I think about it, he shouldn't be a head of either Ali or Louis. But I think their rank had more to do with accomplishments (as an athlete) and overall popularity. But if you were to ask me my rank it would be Ali, Louis, Jordan, Ruth, then Jim Brown.

I don't know shit about Michael Jordan, i mean i know he's famous as fuck and he's like...the fucking basketball equivalent of if some English player won the world cup for us and scored 5 goals in the final, he's a serious somebody in basketball, like the fuckin' man...and Babe Ruth, again, I've heard of and am aware that he's the fuckin' big dick in baseball but i can't comment beyond that except to say, maannn, that Joe Louis mantle is a heavy fuckin' thing.

Jim Brown i seen in umpteen fuckin' movies, i know him from movies more than his actual sporting achievements, so he was a badman in NFL too? Cool Jim Brown to me is Slaughter though, always will be

I know this will not mean much to you Len as you are not a baseball fan but there has never been a baseball player as dominant as Babe Ruth. Back in the day he hit more homeruns in a season then every team in baseball did individually. It would be like player today hitting over 200 home runs in a season. In addition he could have been a HOF pitcher as he won 20 games twice when the was on the Red Sox before he concentrated on hitting.

There will never be another like him in baseball IMHO.

Yeah, I'm definitely aware that he's a serious somebody. Just these names i guess tend to stick in your head. Mickey Mantle is another but i dunno fuck all about him. And that one Jimmy Stewart made a movie about whoose name escapes me.

I'm derailing this thread to fuck, gonna shut up now!

EDIT: ALLEN IVERSON! There you go, thats that other guys name! Kept thinking Albert something

Meh, this thread has turned into the usual Athiest vs. Religious believer shit fest which has been beat to death here. Your topic is much more interesting IMHO.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Ya I'm personally over the religious debate myself. I'm more upset about my fellow natives posting in this thread knocking Joe's statue. I can forgive someone that has never seen it or know it exits, but come on Russ and Zoso, you two should know better, lol. ?

[magisme]

That's a Joe Louis statue? I'm ashamed. I take back my jab, which now seems kinda racist.

[Iron MikeyJ]

To back up what CR said about Babe Ruth, he was so far a head of anything any sport has ever seen, it's just reduculous. Even though Wilt Chamberlain did some super human feats in basketball back in the 60's, they still don't compare to what the bambino did imo. He spent the first 5 or 6 years of his career as a pitcher, had he been a full time player, he would have hit possibly 1000 home runs. Even the steroid players didn't hit that many.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ

[Len Cnut]

From what I'v seen of his he was like a little fat guy too. Then again i dont suppose you need to be athletic to belt a ball into next tuesday.