Dear Fermanager,: A Retrospective

[SoulMonster]

If Fernando comes here, he should get MyGNRForum.

It seems to me you equate MyGNRForum with a place where people are likely to be insulted. That might be your MyGNRForum but it isn't mine. My MyGNRForum is a place where people are allowed to share their opinions on GN'R, both positive and negative, as long as it isn't meant to offend. Asking someone to fuck off, simply isn't, and if your argument is that in some occasions this has been acceptable, then I suggest you look up the subject of context.

This doesn't make MYGNRForum into another HTGTH. Claiming that most people will leave and make this into a dead forum just because you aren't allowed to overtly offend others, is ridiculous. Some might leave -- and good riddance. Others might actually feel more welcomed and have an increased desire to participate in discussion on their favourite band.

[downzy]

Just a suggestion that you people should try to do some interviews with Ron, Fortus, Frank, Pitman and Tommy. They are not hard to contact and they will easily do an interview, they are hungry for promotion.

What the hell are they promoting?

We've tried, and none of them are currently accepting invitations for interviews. We might be able to interview Ron if we don't ask him anything to do with GNR, but I'm not sure that would serve our members much. Could be wrong on that.

[alfierose]

Downzy, I'm not block quoting everything again but your post entirely sidesteps the fact that the language used by board members only became an issue the moment there was a member of band management (or whatever the hell Fernando's title is - I don't even know) came by to suck up to.

If Fernando chooses to come here, why do the rules of what 'here' is suddenly have to be changed to accomodate him? And do me a favour and don't pretend that on any other day of the year those posts wouldn't have escaped deletion. A quick skim of my, Mags or numerous others posting history's will prove otherwise.

Board members true opinions and otherwise commonly accepted expressions being censored to appease the powers that be is why HTGTH has died on it's ass. This is the exact same thing.

If Fernando comes here, he should get MyGNRForum. He should see the same frustration and resentment that this band has gone out of it's way to foster that's here every other day. Why the hell should we have to pretend otherwise? Red carpet treatment for him, meanwhile you sweep the thoughts of longterm community members under it. Pretty clear where your priorities lie.

Because we asked people to be more polite in that particular thread, pretty much as we have always done in Canter Banter and for the most part people have always accepted and abided by that. We were asking the same thing of Fernando's thread.

[Rustycage]

Show me where a mod or an admin jumped down someone's throat for voicing their opinion on the band? We don't do that here.

You are deleting posts without explanation - that is ten times worse. Controlling the narrative is not the job of a moderator.

If you can't accept someone saying "fuck", just add a wordfilter that changes "fuck" to "forget" and be done with it.

Since I logged onto the forum today around lunchtime (UK time) and considering the arguments going on in these Fernando threads, not to mention all the other countless ongoing threads, we have hidden 5 posts between us. Is that really controlling the narrative? As discussed in the moderation thread in Support we remove a very small percentage of what is posted.

There has been a lot more than 5 posts hidden/deleted total since the thread started. Many of them were neither insulting, vulgar or irrelevant. Even posting any criticism of the gnr camp in that topic was hidden. Seems like the excuses for it keep shifting.

It's either an insult. Or it's rude. Or it's repetitive. Or it's asking for too much information. Or it's out of the bounds of casual conversation.

That is DEFINITELY controlling the narrative.

[downzy]

Show me where a mod or an admin jumped down someone's throat for voicing their opinion on the band? We don't do that here.

You are deleting posts without explanation - that is ten times worse. Controlling the narrative is not the job of a moderator.

If you can't accept someone saying "fuck", just add a wordfilter that changes "fuck" to "forget" and be done with it.

Since I logged onto the forum today around lunchtime (UK time) and considering the arguments going on in these Fernando threads, not to mention all the other countless ongoing threads, we have hidden 5 posts between us. Is that really controlling the narrative? As discussed in the moderation thread in Support we remove a very small percentage of what is posted.

There has been a lot more than 5 posts hidden/deleted total since the thread started. Many of them were neither insulting, vulgar or irrelevant. Even posting any criticism of the gnr camp in that topic was hidden. Seems like the excuses for it keep shifting.

It's either an insult. Or it's rude. Or it's repetitive. Or it's asking for too much information. Or it's out of the bounds of casual conversation.

That is DEFINITELY controlling the narrative.

You're within your right to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Perhaps you might want to peruse that thread again. There are multiple posts (which I highlighted just a few posts ago) that contain criticisms of the band and management.

The thread is a demonstration to both members and visitors of this forum, along with the band and management, that we can be civil and still disagree. If you want to accuse us of controlling the narrative, that's fine. Because I certainly don't want any part of a narrative that's reinforced by vulgarity and overt hostility.

[RussTCB]

Even posting any criticism of the gnr camp in that topic was hidden. Seems like the excuses for it keep shifting

Nah. I quick look at the thread in it's current state shows that not to be true.

[Rustycage]

Now you're just lying.

Go take a look again. A lot of it went down while Fernando was still somewhat active and before his first departure. Usually before every single "he's just here for casual talk guys." post.

[trev]

Fernando, I'll be over around 8 tonight for a few beers.

[Rustycage]

They are the same type of comments now being accepted here in this off section. If that's not shifting the rules for Fernando, then what is it?

[downzy]

Now you're just lying.

Go take a look again. A lot of it went down while Fernando was still somewhat active and before his first departure. Usually before every single "he's just here for casual talk guys." post.

Nope. Almost every post removed over the past two days were removed because of members sniping each other back and forward, clogging up the thread... Pretty much every post directed to Fernando that expressed their frustration or criticism was left alone.

[OmarBradley]

Now you're just lying.

Go take a look again. A lot of it went down while Fernando was still somewhat active and before his first departure. Usually before every single "he's just here for casual talk guys." post.

Rusty I've found myself agreeing with a lot of your posts, but this is just untrue. Hell, Russ has even "liked" a plethora of posts in the thread that are quite critical of TB/GNR, including one of my mine.

Just a suggestion that you people should try to do some interviews with Ron, Fortus, Frank, Pitman and Tommy. They are not hard to contact and they will easily do an interview, they are hungry for promotion.

What the hell are they promoting?

We've tried, and none of them are currently accepting invitations for interviews. We might be able to interview Ron if we don't ask him anything to do with GNR, but I'm not sure that would serve our members much. Could be wrong on that.

Actually I think that would be great. I know there's a decent sized group of people on here who like Ron's solo stuff a lot (me included). I can't speak for the rest of the group, but I don't care to ask him GNR questions.

[Rustycage]

Now you're just lying.

Go take a look again. A lot of it went down while Fernando was still somewhat active and before his first departure. Usually before every single "he's just here for casual talk guys." post.

Nope. Almost every post removed over the past two days were removed because of members sniping each other back and forward, clogging up the thread... Pretty much every post directed to Fernando that expressed their frustration or criticism was left alone.

The past two days?

The past two days that topic has been dead. Do you really think the criticism here is only about the past 48 hours?

[downzy]

They are the same type of comments now being accepted here in this off section. If that's not shifting the rules for Fernando, then what is it?

Perhaps you're not away of the forum's restructuring back in the winter, but we added Civil War to allow for a less moderated space for people to discuss. There's a reason why this thread, and all threads, are receiving less moderation versus what you find in the D&N section. This has been common practice for quite some time.

[Rustycage]

Now you're just lying.

Go take a look again. A lot of it went down while Fernando was still somewhat active and before his first departure. Usually before every single "he's just here for casual talk guys." post.

Rusty I've found myself agreeing with a lot of your posts, but this is just untrue. Hell, Russ has even "liked" a plethora of posts in the thread that are quite critical of TB/GNR, including one of my mine.

That's great that he has liked your posts. But that has nothing to do with how things were going down in the second or third day of that topic. Posts were deleted because they were asked before. Or they were deleted because they were not fitting into the casual talk category. Or that they pointed out how that his answers were just stringing people along(such as the 2-4 months bit). There were plenty. Then poof.

What reason would I have to lie about it?

They are the same type of comments now being accepted here in this off section. If that's not shifting the rules for Fernando, then what is it?

Perhaps you're not away of the forum's restructuring back in the winter, but we added Civil War to allow for a less moderated space for people to discuss. There's a reason why this thread, and all threads, are receiving less moderation versus what you find in the D&N section. This has been common practice for quite some time.

When the posts don't break the rules of the D&N section, why delete/hide them?

[downzy]

Now you're just lying.

Go take a look again. A lot of it went down while Fernando was still somewhat active and before his first departure. Usually before every single "he's just here for casual talk guys." post.

Nope. Almost every post removed over the past two days were removed because of members sniping each other back and forward, clogging up the thread... Pretty much every post directed to Fernando that expressed their frustration or criticism was left alone.

The past two days?

The past two days that topic has been dead. Do you really think the criticism here is only about the past 48 hours?

Fine, the posts removed prior to Fernando's departure included content like "everyone running GNR are stupid people," comments about pubic hair, TheSeeker's comment that the band and the thread is worthless, a GingerPubes remark, a thousand questions from Miser, comments like "speak or get the fuck out." questions about banned forum members, and a whole lot more sniping between members that was clogging up the forum.

We left all criticisms of the band so long as they weren't rude or offensive.

[SoulMonster]

Perhaps you're not away of the forum's restructuring back in the winter, but we added Civil War to allow for a less moderated space for people to discuss. There's a reason why this thread, and all threads, are receiving less moderation versus what you find in the D&N section. This has been common practice for quite some time.

When the posts don't break the rules of the D&N section, why delete/hide them?

Ooh, I think I can answer that! Because redundant posts that clutter and clog and make the thread very long, make it much harder for interested readers in finding the few posts from Fernando which potentially could have been very interesting. It basically makes it for a better read without actually removing something that hasn't been said numerous times, or would just be noise.

[downzy]

They are the same type of comments now being accepted here in this off section. If that's not shifting the rules for Fernando, then what is it?

Perhaps you're not away of the forum's restructuring back in the winter, but we added Civil War to allow for a less moderated space for people to discuss. There's a reason why this thread, and all threads, are receiving less moderation versus what you find in the D&N section. This has been common practice for quite some time.

When the posts don't break the rules of the D&N section, why delete/hide them?

See above post. They did.

EDIT: Or they were repetitive or restricted the conversation. As SM points out, clogging up a thread is a violation of the rules in and of itself.

[alfierose]

They are the same type of comments now being accepted here in this off section. If that's not shifting the rules for Fernando, then what is it?

Perhaps you're not away of the forum's restructuring back in the winter, but we added Civil War to allow for a less moderated space for people to discuss. There's a reason why this thread, and all threads, are receiving less moderation versus what you find in the D&N section. This has been common practice for quite some time.

When the posts don't break the rules of the D&N section, why delete/hide them?

See above post. They did.

EDIT: Or they were repetitive or restricted the conversation. As SM points out, clogging up a thread is a violation of the rules in and of itself.

I even had my posts moved from the thread earlier for cluttering. Downzy is off my Christmas list now!

[Padme]

I think we need to go back to the begining. Fernando looked into this thread (not his official discussion thread) Then he posted "train of hatred" Is he expecting congratulations after such a comment?

Mods claim we don´t have the right to bash him but he has the right to insult us? I was pissed off and so were other people like magisme. We reacted in diferent ways. I guess because we have diffent personalities and different ways to express how we feel.

First of all that comment by Fernando is bullshit. Nobody here hates Axl nor him. Second he is just like Axl. They want us to be yes man and say everything Axl does is perfect and wonderful when that´s not the case at all!

Sorry but it is Fernando the one showing intolerance, inmaturity and arrogance. I think Fernando should apologise for the comment if he wants us to show him good maners and respect

[RussTCB]

Rusty I've found myself agreeing with a lot of your posts, but this is just untrue. Hell, Russ has even "liked" a plethora of posts in the thread that are quite critical of TB/GNR, including one of my mine.

What reason would I have to lie about it?

I guess I'd answer that question with the same question: What reason would downzy or the rest of us lie about it?

I'm going through the original thread right now and I had to get to Page 3 before I found even one post that was removed. The post was a user insulting another user for no reason whatsoever and had nothing to do with GN'R. The next post that were removed are 2 pages later, which was one telling Fernando to get the fuck out of here. The next thing removed after that was on Page 9 where a user was insulting another user for no reason. The next posts removed after that are 3 on Page 11 where 2 users were insulting each other one user was insulting everyone posting in the thread. Page 12 has one removed post where someone was again insulting everyone posting in the thread. Page 13 has one removed post asking Fernando what he had for breakfast. Page 14 has one post removed from a user telling Fernando there's no need for him to be here. Pag 16 has one silly/off topic post removed.

So there's the first 20 pages of a 55 page thread, of which a grand total of 10 posts were removed/hidden, 7 of which were users insulting each other or everyone posting in the thread, 3 of which were silly/off topic. Everything else that was posted in those first 20 pages in in-tact, as posted.

[downzy]

I think we need to go back to the begining. Fernando looked into this thread (not his official discussion thread) Then he posted "train of hatred" Is he expecting congratulations after such a comment?

Mods claim we don´t have the right to bash him but he has the right to insult us? I was pissed off and so were other people like magisme. We reacted in diferent ways. I guess because we have diffent personalities and different ways to express how we feel.

First of all that comment by Fernando is bullshit. Nobody here hates Axl nor him. Second he is just like Axl. They want us to be yes man and say everything Axl does is perfect and wonderful when that´s not the case at all!

Sorry but it is Fernando the one showing intolerance, inmaturity and arrogance. I think Fernando should apologise for the comment if he wants us to show him good maners and respect

Saying "train of hatred" isn't necessarily bashing. It's getting something wrong, but it doesn't serve any basis to launch a barrage of insults back. Some people were able to challenge his post appropriately. Others were not. It's fine to say we all act in different ways, but your own personal behavioural standards aren't want we base the rules on here. Nobody on staff is saying Fernando's comment wasn't bullshit. What we are saying is that there's a right way and a wrong way in responding to it. Telling him off and including a personal dig is the wrong way. Challenging him on the merits of the conversation is the right way.

[Padme]

I think we need to go back to the begining. Fernando looked into this thread (not his official discussion thread) Then he posted "train of hatred" Is he expecting congratulations after such a comment?

Mods claim we don´t have the right to bash him but he has the right to insult us? I was pissed off and so were other people like magisme. We reacted in diferent ways. I guess because we have diffent personalities and different ways to express how we feel.

First of all that comment by Fernando is bullshit. Nobody here hates Axl nor him. Second he is just like Axl. They want us to be yes man and say everything Axl does is perfect and wonderful when that´s not the case at all!

Sorry but it is Fernando the one showing intolerance, inmaturity and arrogance. I think Fernando should apologise for the comment if he wants us to show him good maners and respect

Saying "train of hatred" isn't necessarily bashing. It's getting something wrong, but it doesn't serve any basis to launch a barrage of insults back. Some people were able to challenge his post appropriately. Others were not. It's fine to say we all act in different ways, but your own personal behavioural standards aren't want we base the rules on here. Nobody on staff is saying Fernando's comment wasn't bullshit. What we are saying is that there's a right way and a wrong way in responding to it. Telling him off and including a personal dig is the wrong way. Challenging him on the merits of the conversation is the right way.

Well please also tell him there is a right way and a wrong way to express his feelings and his thoughts.

[Rustycage]

No. C'mon now.

Others were also deleted under the grounds that it was beyond the scope of casual talk.

Speaking of which, what is the purpose of moderating what people ask when it doesn't break the rules?

Rusty I've found myself agreeing with a lot of your posts, but this is just untrue. Hell, Russ has even "liked" a plethora of posts in the thread that are quite critical of TB/GNR, including one of my mine.

What reason would I have to lie about it?

I guess I'd answer that question with the same question: What reason would downzy or the rest of us lie about it?

I'm not even saying he is the one that did it. There is one mod not in this conversation that was heavy on the "let's just be casual" train. I have no idea who did so I'm not saying he is lying because I don't even know who. I know for certain it DID happen. So, the question you asked back to me isn't a good one.

They are the same type of comments now being accepted here in this off section. If that's not shifting the rules for Fernando, then what is it?

Perhaps you're not away of the forum's restructuring back in the winter, but we added Civil War to allow for a less moderated space for people to discuss. There's a reason why this thread, and all threads, are receiving less moderation versus what you find in the D&N section. This has been common practice for quite some time.

When the posts don't break the rules of the D&N section, why delete/hide them?

See above post. They did.

EDIT: Or they were repetitive or restricted the conversation. As SM points out, clogging up a thread is a violation of the rules in and of itself.

I even had my posts moved from the thread earlier for cluttering. Downzy is off my Christmas list now!

Again, this isn't about today or even about him. You claimed that no one is controlling or controlled the narrative and that is completely untrue.

[downzy]

I think we need to go back to the begining. Fernando looked into this thread (not his official discussion thread) Then he posted "train of hatred" Is he expecting congratulations after such a comment?

Mods claim we don´t have the right to bash him but he has the right to insult us? I was pissed off and so were other people like magisme. We reacted in diferent ways. I guess because we have diffent personalities and different ways to express how we feel.

First of all that comment by Fernando is bullshit. Nobody here hates Axl nor him. Second he is just like Axl. They want us to be yes man and say everything Axl does is perfect and wonderful when that´s not the case at all!

Sorry but it is Fernando the one showing intolerance, inmaturity and arrogance. I think Fernando should apologise for the comment if he wants us to show him good maners and respect

Saying "train of hatred" isn't necessarily bashing. It's getting something wrong, but it doesn't serve any basis to launch a barrage of insults back. Some people were able to challenge his post appropriately. Others were not. It's fine to say we all act in different ways, but your own personal behavioural standards aren't want we base the rules on here. Nobody on staff is saying Fernando's comment wasn't bullshit. What we are saying is that there's a right way and a wrong way in responding to it. Telling him off and including a personal dig is the wrong way. Challenging him on the merits of the conversation is the right way.

Well please also tell him there is a right way and a wrong way to express his feelings and his thoughts.

Well, it was right for him. It was wrong for many of us. We can disagree about his assessment all day long so long as we're not telling each other off. And many people did express your sentiments but in a very constructive manner. There's no harm in that.

[alfierose]

No. C'mon now.

Others were also deleted under the grounds that it was beyond the scope of casual talk.

Speaking of which, what is the purpose of moderating what people ask when it doesn't break the rules?

Rusty I've found myself agreeing with a lot of your posts, but this is just untrue. Hell, Russ has even "liked" a plethora of posts in the thread that are quite critical of TB/GNR, including one of my mine.

What reason would I have to lie about it?

I guess I'd answer that question with the same question: What reason would downzy or the rest of us lie about it?

I'm not even saying he is the one that did it. There is one mod not in this conversation that was heavy on the "let's just be casual" train. I have no idea who did so I'm not saying he is lying because I don't even know who. I know for certain it DID happen. So, the question you asked back to me isn't a good one.

They are the same type of comments now being accepted here in this off section. If that's not shifting the rules for Fernando, then what is it?

Perhaps you're not away of the forum's restructuring back in the winter, but we added Civil War to allow for a less moderated space for people to discuss. There's a reason why this thread, and all threads, are receiving less moderation versus what you find in the D&N section. This has been common practice for quite some time.

When the posts don't break the rules of the D&N section, why delete/hide them?

See above post. They did.

EDIT: Or they were repetitive or restricted the conversation. As SM points out, clogging up a thread is a violation of the rules in and of itself.

I even had my posts moved from the thread earlier for cluttering. Downzy is off my Christmas list now!

Again, this isn't about today or even about him. You claimed that no one is controlling or controlled the narrative and that is completely untrue.

What is it that you think should be said that you or others are prevented from being able to say?