Dear Fermanager,: A Retrospective

[TheSeeker]

I think you're straying further away from the point.

Axl chooses TB because he KNOWS they won't go the route of a reunion. It would do them no good as the evil one would most likely NOT reunite with them running the show. Beta hates the "evil one" with a passion. They echo Axl's biggest sentiment regarding GNR's past. Plus, any potential manager would be very hesitant in taking on this incarnation of "gnr." If you cannot grasp that they have much more leeway than any other potential manager, there's nothing else to discuss on it. To deny that is to deny the most obvious about their current relationship.

Axl lives in a bubble, insulated from truth. He enjoys that, because hearing the truth means the past 20 years of his life will be revealed as a giant waste. Team Brazil receives monetary support for keeping the bubble going.

There's nothing healthy or respectable about that arrangement at all.

[Rustycage]

I think you're straying further away from the point.

Axl chooses TB because he KNOWS they won't go the route of a reunion. It would do them no good as the evil one would most likely NOT reunite with them running the show. Beta hates the "evil one" with a passion. They echo Axl's biggest sentiment regarding GNR's past. Plus, any potential manager would be very hesitant in taking on this incarnation of "gnr." If you cannot grasp that they have much more leeway than any other potential manager, there's nothing else to discuss on it. To deny that is to deny the most obvious about their current relationship.

Axl considers them to be his family, so of course there could potentially be more leeway, but I mean... if Axl is not happy as an artist, why would he keep them as managers of his precious Guns N' Roses? it doesn't seem likely.

I think he's satisfied with their work. And yeah, their position on a reunion is the same it seems. I think they believe everything Axl told them about Slash and that Beta really does hate Slash.

Still... the point I'm trying to make here is that even TB, with their "family" ties to Axl can't force him to do anything, and can only work inside the boundaries of what Axl wants them to do.

Axl still calls all the shots, so why kill the messenger? like it or not, Fernando is just doing his job.

The point is not them forcing Axl to do something. The point is that Fernando doesn't have to pretend to be a whipped puppy when it comes to answering some general questions about the band. If he can get away with leaking Chinese Democracy and booking some questionable gigs, he can afford to answer more than the questions about Axl's cat.

[Rovim]

I think you're straying further away from the point.

Axl chooses TB because he KNOWS they won't go the route of a reunion. It would do them no good as the evil one would most likely NOT reunite with them running the show. Beta hates the "evil one" with a passion. They echo Axl's biggest sentiment regarding GNR's past. Plus, any potential manager would be very hesitant in taking on this incarnation of "gnr." If you cannot grasp that they have much more leeway than any other potential manager, there's nothing else to discuss on it. To deny that is to deny the most obvious about their current relationship.

Axl considers them to be his family, so of course there could potentially be more leeway, but I mean... if Axl is not happy as an artist, why would he keep them as managers of his precious Guns N' Roses? it doesn't seem likely.

I think he's satisfied with their work. And yeah, their position on a reunion is the same it seems. I think they believe everything Axl told them about Slash and that Beta really does hate Slash.

Still... the point I'm trying to make here is that even TB, with their "family" ties to Axl can't force him to do anything, and can only work inside the boundaries of what Axl wants them to do.

Axl still calls all the shots, so why kill the messenger? like it or not, Fernando is just doing his job.

The point is not them forcing Axl to do something. The point is that Fernando doesn't have to pretend to be a whipped puppy when it comes to answering some general questions about the band. If he can get away with leaking Chinese Democracy and booking some questionable gigs, he can afford to answer more than the questions about Axl's cat.

No, he really can't. Not without pissing Axl off. (at the very least)

Just because he did it once years ago without knowing it will cause damage, doesn't mean he'll do it again. He can't "afford" to share information because it's not his call to make. He is not allowed to as Axl's employee and out of respect for him as a friend he keeps his mouth shut when it comes to things he knows he can't talk about.

He doesn't pretend, it's what Axl wants. Still just doing his job.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Rovim

[alfierose]

See, even the Mod team gets moderated. Downzy has no favourites

[Rustycage]

No, he really can't. Not without pissing Axl off. (at the very least)

Just because he did it once years ago without knowing it will cause damage, doesn't mean he'll do it again. He can't "afford" to share information he is not allowed to as Axl's employee and out of respect for him as a friend.

He doesn't pretend, it's what Axl wants. Still just doing his job.

How would you know on any of those points? You didn't even know that Fernando is the most likely source of all the leaks...That is a much bigger hit to Axl than answering some pretty general questions. Obviously you can't acknowledge the unusual dynamic of Beta and Fernando's relationship to Axl compared to "normal managers." At this point, I'll just walk away and say... Ok, whatever.

[Memdroid]

Some friend he is for keeping his mouth shut and unable to criticize him, that is what friends are for too, you know.

[Rovim]

No, he really can't. Not without pissing Axl off. (at the very least)

Just because he did it once years ago without knowing it will cause damage, doesn't mean he'll do it again. He can't "afford" to share information he is not allowed to as Axl's employee and out of respect for him as a friend.

He doesn't pretend, it's what Axl wants. Still just doing his job.

How would you know on any of those points? You didn't even know that Fernando is the most likely source of all the leaks...That is a much bigger hit to Axl than answering some pretty general questions. Obviously you can't acknowledge the unusual dynamic of Beta and Fernando's relationship to Axl compared to "normal managers." At this point, I'll just walk away and say... Ok, whatever.

You walk away cause you know you can't really support your opinion on this matter. I think Fernando made a mistake and there is no chance he'll knowingly do anything that goes against what Axl wants or at least what he thinks he wants.

The dynamic is very unusual so that's me acknowledging that. But even if there is a difference between "normal" managers and TB, the difference is still not big enough to be relevant to the band's current situation imo.

Axl is responsible cause he makes all the decisions. Whoever works for him will never have control over the direction of the band. Not even the members of the band get to have a say.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Rovim

[Rustycage]

Some friend he is for keeping his mouth shut and unable to criticize him, that is what friends are for too, you know.

Except good friends will tell you when you have a booger.

[Rovim]

[Padme]

No, he really can't. Not without pissing Axl off. (at the very least)

Just because he did it once years ago without knowing it will cause damage, doesn't mean he'll do it again. He can't "afford" to share information he is not allowed to as Axl's employee and out of respect for him as a friend.

He doesn't pretend, it's what Axl wants. Still just doing his job.

How would you know on any of those points? You didn't even know that Fernando is the most likely source of all the leaks...That is a much bigger hit to Axl than answering some pretty general questions. Obviously you can't acknowledge the unusual dynamic of Beta and Fernando's relationship to Axl compared to "normal managers." At this point, I'll just walk away and say... Ok, whatever.

You walk away cause you know you can't really support your opinion on this matter. I think Fernando made a mistake and there is no chance he'll knowingly do anything that goes against what Axl wants or at least what he thinks he wants.

The dynamic is very unusual so that's me acknowledging that. But even if there is a difference between "normal" managers and TB, the difference is still not big enough to be relevant to the band's current situation imo.

Axl is responsible cause he makes all the decisions. Whoever works for him will never have control over the direction of the band. Not even the members of the band get to have a say.

I agree that Axl is responsible for the mess. But how come there is nobody out there being capable of telling him that he fucked it up? Axl is a guy who destroys everything he touches. The band, the legacy, friendships, love relationships and he is even destrying himself. The guy can´t sing anymore. His career depends on his voice

There has to be someone out there who can stop his Appetite For Destruction. Somebody who could help him to get his shit together. TB is showing they are not the right people to do it. But I guess they could seek help

[Rovim]

No, he really can't. Not without pissing Axl off. (at the very least)

Just because he did it once years ago without knowing it will cause damage, doesn't mean he'll do it again. He can't "afford" to share information he is not allowed to as Axl's employee and out of respect for him as a friend.

He doesn't pretend, it's what Axl wants. Still just doing his job.

How would you know on any of those points? You didn't even know that Fernando is the most likely source of all the leaks...That is a much bigger hit to Axl than answering some pretty general questions. Obviously you can't acknowledge the unusual dynamic of Beta and Fernando's relationship to Axl compared to "normal managers." At this point, I'll just walk away and say... Ok, whatever.

You walk away cause you know you can't really support your opinion on this matter. I think Fernando made a mistake and there is no chance he'll knowingly do anything that goes against what Axl wants or at least what he thinks he wants.

The dynamic is very unusual so that's me acknowledging that. But even if there is a difference between "normal" managers and TB, the difference is still not big enough to be relevant to the band's current situation imo.

Axl is responsible cause he makes all the decisions. Whoever works for him will never have control over the direction of the band. Not even the members of the band get to have a say.

I agree that Axl is responsible for the mess. But how come there is nobody out there being capable of telling him that he fucked it up?

Cause he doesn't want to hear it. He only hires people that understand and accept his conditions. He surrounds himself with people that are not critical of him, but are protective and supportive. Some might just call them enablers and yes men, but while I do think they totally enable him, I don't think they have any intention of hurting him or what he's trying to do musically and ultimately are not responsible for the current state of this band.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Rovim

[TheSeeker]

I agree that Axl is responsible for the mess. But how come there is nobody out there being capable of telling him that he fucked it up? Axl is a guy who destroys everything he touches. The band, the legacy, friendships, love relationships and he is even destrying himself. The guy can´t sing anymore. His career depends on his voice

There has to be someone out there who can stop his Appetite For Destruction. Somebody who could help him to get his shit together. TB is showing they are not the right people to do it. But I guess they could seek help

Why would Team Brazil risk their sugar daddy getting his psychological issues addressed and finding out Team Brazil isn't good to have around?

Read about how Eugene Landry controlled every aspect of Brian Wilson's life and tell me it's not creepily similar to how Team Brazil currently controls Axl:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Landy

Using his unorthodox 24-hour therapy, Landy was successful in limiting Wilson's drug abuse and improving his physical appearance and overall health. In the process, however, he was accused of brainwashing, drugging and isolating his patient, then benefiting from an improper business relationship with him. These charges ultimately cost Landy his professional license and reputation and earned him the brand of a "Doctor Feelgood" in the press.

Beta is Axl's "Doctor Feelgood"

Edited August 13, 2015 by TheSeeker

[Padme]

But they hurt him with their yes man attitude. Axl goes nowhere with people like that around him.

[downzy]

The argument that past and present managers do not express their frustration with Axl over the state of fairs is factually wrong. As Fernando noted last week, he gets frustrated with Axl. To think that those sentiments never reach Axl is absurd. The problem for us fans is that we'll never see any of that. GNR business, for better or worse, is kept out of public sight.

I'll ask again that though we try to keep modding of this section of the forum as light as possible, it will still happen if required.

Please keep conversations related to the topic at hand. Discussing what happens with Axl's estate has nothing to do with this conversation.

[OmarBradley]

I've been trying to avoid getting involved in this, but I couldn't resist. So here is hopefully my only tirade on the subject.

I take your point. Perhaps we should lock it up again.

I don't personally know why Fernando joined the thread or what he hoped to gain from it but I do know that if we don't show a willingness to communicate civilly (and yes it goes both ways) then we have zero chance of being informed when there is something to say. At which point people will continue to moan that we are told nothing.

It might lead to nothing given past experience but if we can't be prepared to play nice ourselves then the concept of hateful, undeserving fans will remain as a reason to explain why we are kept in the dark. Remove that reason then the legitimate complaints the fan base have hold more weight and perhaps criticism can be viewed with more justification.

Completely disagree with this. It is not the fans job to initiate and promote band activity. It is the fans job to go to shows, buy CDs/MP3's, buy shirts, talk about the band, etc.. The fans have done their part (and more!) over the last 20 years. The "band" (does anyone really think this is a band anymore?) has failed miserably. Like you said, "it goes both ways," except for the last 20 years, it's only been going one way......

Management is going to withhold news because some fans on MyGNR are pissed and rude? If that's the case, that's a fucked up business model. SoulMonster covered this pretty well already: Harsh criticism from patrons of your product should not be a disincentive to productivity; quite the opposite if you want to be taken seriously.

And even more lol at the "if we're well behaved, we'll get news:" Remember that MyGNR exclusive, 2-3 new songs in last year's touring?

And alfie, I really do like your posts, but I can't believe you used the term "undeserving fans." Are some of them pissed? Yeah. Hateful at times even? Maybe some. But no one who signs up on a GNR forum to talk about the band is "undeserving" of news.

Put it this way: you're the CEO of a major corporation, you have 20,000 investors owning public stock. The COO and CFO quit within months of each other after 7 years of no new products...... and there's still not any substantive news nor are there any press releases. Is it unreasonable for the people who have put their time and money into this organization to be quite pissed?

I don't think Mags comment was out of line since GNR/management themselves told their fans that they must either get on board or fuck off. That's not very nice.

Agreed. We're (mostly) all adults here, why can't we tell someone to "fuck off?" Mags wasn't being malicious or provocative; it was a disgruntled response. Now if mags had said, "fuck you, you bitch" or something like that - I'd be more understanding of the moderation.

Edited August 13, 2015 by OmarBradley

[Dazey]

I'll literally bare my arse in the centre of town and post the pictures on here if anything worthy of note comes from this whole enterprise. We all know how this ends people. No need to get excited or upset.

[SoulMonster]

I don't think Mags comment was out of line since GNR/management themselves told their fans that they must either get on board or fuck off. That's not very nice.

Seriously? Because someone else said something bad (somewhere) then others should be free to say something bad on this forum, too? That's almost biblical in its nonsense. And you don't see the big difference between specifically telling someone to fuck off and generally saying people should get on board or fuck off? No?

I admire the job that downzy and the rest of the mod team is doing in moderating this place, and I for one think they have done a great job in handling Fernando's visit. Not teling someone to fuck off is what we expect from any adult human being. This is not just a remarkably rule for this place. Granted, not everyone here are adults, or mature, but still, one would hope they would sooner or later get the rules and maybe at least act like adults.

It might lead to nothing given past experience but if we can't be prepared to play nice ourselves then the concept of hateful, undeserving fans will remain as a reason to explain why we are kept in the dark. Remove that reason then the legitimate complaints the fan base have hold more weight and perhaps criticism can be viewed with more justification.

You are buying into some weird logic that the fans are the problem. Fans react to the actions of the band. The band makes no action, the fans either get mad or leave.

No, there are those who won't respond to a band being dysfunctional by lashing out like small children who wants something they can't get, or leave our of frustration. I would think the more or less silent majority still hangs around and hopes that somethign will eventually happen. But granted, those that don't tend to be the most vocal about how butthurt they are.

[TheSeeker]

No, there are those who won't respond to a band being dysfunctional by lashing out like small children who wants something they can't get, or leave our of frustration. I would think the more or less silent majority still hangs around and hopes that somethign will eventually happen. But granted, those that don't tend to be the most vocal about how butthurt they are.

Maybe it's because we've all moved on and come back to laugh at the clown show.

I have a theory that the diehards just want the entire fanbase to die so they can get closer to the stage at the next Vegas residency. At the rate this band is going, you'll be able to get front row seats to see GNR at the local bowling alley very soon.

[alfierose]

I've been trying to avoid getting involved in this, but I couldn't resist. So here is hopefully my only tirade on the subject.

I take your point. Perhaps we should lock it up again.

I don't personally know why Fernando joined the thread or what he hoped to gain from it but I do know that if we don't show a willingness to communicate civilly (and yes it goes both ways) then we have zero chance of being informed when there is something to say. At which point people will continue to moan that we are told nothing.

It might lead to nothing given past experience but if we can't be prepared to play nice ourselves then the concept of hateful, undeserving fans will remain as a reason to explain why we are kept in the dark. Remove that reason then the legitimate complaints the fan base have hold more weight and perhaps criticism can be viewed with more justification.

Completely disagree with this. It is not the fans job to initiate and promote band activity. It is the fans job to go to shows, buy CDs/MP3's, buy shirts, talk about the band, etc.. The fans have done their part (and more!) over the last 20 years. The "band" (does anyone really think this is a band anymore?) has failed miserably. Like you said, "it goes both ways," except for the last 20 years, it's only been going one way......

Management is going to withhold news because some fans on MyGNR are pissed and rude? If that's the case, that's a fucked up business model. SoulMonster covered this pretty well already: Harsh criticism from patrons of your product should not be a disincentive to productivity; quite the opposite if you want to be taken seriously.

And even more lol at the "if we're well behaved, we'll get news:" Remember that MyGNR exclusive, 2-3 new songs in last year's touring?

And alfie, I really do like your posts, but I can't believe you used the term "undeserving fans." Are some of them pissed? Yeah. Hateful at times even? Maybe some. But no one who signs up on a GNR forum to talk about the band is "undeserving" of news.

Put it this way: you're the CEO of a major corporation, you have 20,000 investors owning public stock. The COO and CFO quit within months of each other after 7 years of no new products...... and there's still not any substantive news nor are there any press releases. Is it unreasonable for the people who have put their time and money into this organization to be quite pissed?

I don't think Mags comment was out of line since GNR/management themselves told their fans that they must either get on board or fuck off. That's not very nice.

Agreed. We're (mostly) all adults here, why can't we tell someone to "fuck off?" Mags wasn't being malicious or provocative; it was a disgruntled response. Now if mags had said, "fuck you, you bitch" or something like that - I'd be more understanding of the moderation.

Maybe I should have put it quotation marks, the reference to undeserving and hateful was a deliberate mirroring of how management have maybe viewed us in the past. It's not my opinion - I thought that much would be obvious.

It's fine if you disagree with my view, I don't think it is the job of the fans to painfully extract information under any normal circumstances but as the forum is under a new administration I think we should attempt to foster good relations and if it falls flat at least we know we made the best go of it.

I don't really see why anyone has a massive issue with this.

[SoulMonster]

Agreed. We're (mostly) all adults here, why can't we tell someone to "fuck off?" Mags wasn't being malicious or provocative; it was a disgruntled response. Now if mags had said, "fuck you, you bitch" or something like that - I'd be more understanding of the moderation.

Why we can't tell someone to fuck off? Seriously? Because it is an ad hominem attack that has nothing to do in conversations except between people who know each other well so it will be blatantly clear it is being said with no ill intent. On discussion boards it is mostly used as a veiled or very openly hostile comment that serves absolutely no purpose but to insult another person. Is normal behaviour for netiquette a completely foreign subject to some members here? Is there a sub culture thing where "fuck off" is a compliment?

[SoulMonster]

No, there are those who won't respond to a band being dysfunctional by lashing out like small children who wants something they can't get, or leave our of frustration. I would think the more or less silent majority still hangs around and hopes that somethign will eventually happen. But granted, those that don't tend to be the most vocal about how butthurt they are.

Maybe it's because we've all moved on and come back to laugh at the clown show.

Laugh as much as you want but take it like men when you get suspended for violating the very clear rules.

[OmarBradley]

Agreed. We're (mostly) all adults here, why can't we tell someone to "fuck off?" Mags wasn't being malicious or provocative; it was a disgruntled response. Now if mags had said, "fuck you, you bitch" or something like that - I'd be more understanding of the moderation.

Why we can't tell someone to fuck off? Seriously? Because it is an ad hominem attack that has nothing to do in conversations except between people who know each other well so it will be blatantly clear it is being said with no ill intent. On discussion boards it is mostly used as a veiled or very openly hostile comment that serves absolutely no purpose but to insult another person. Is normal behaviour for netiquette a completely foreign subject to some members here? Is there a sub culture thing where "fuck off" is a compliment?

I never saw it as malicious as you're saying it is. That's just my view. Have I ever told anyone here or on any forum to "fuck off?" No. I'm not saying everyone should always tell each other to fuck off, but if it happens once during a back and forth between two people who are not maliciously attacking each other, I don't see a huge issue.

[OmarBradley]

I've been trying to avoid getting involved in this, but I couldn't resist. So here is hopefully my only tirade on the subject.

I take your point. Perhaps we should lock it up again.

I don't personally know why Fernando joined the thread or what he hoped to gain from it but I do know that if we don't show a willingness to communicate civilly (and yes it goes both ways) then we have zero chance of being informed when there is something to say. At which point people will continue to moan that we are told nothing.

It might lead to nothing given past experience but if we can't be prepared to play nice ourselves then the concept of hateful, undeserving fans will remain as a reason to explain why we are kept in the dark. Remove that reason then the legitimate complaints the fan base have hold more weight and perhaps criticism can be viewed with more justification.

Completely disagree with this. It is not the fans job to initiate and promote band activity. It is the fans job to go to shows, buy CDs/MP3's, buy shirts, talk about the band, etc.. The fans have done their part (and more!) over the last 20 years. The "band" (does anyone really think this is a band anymore?) has failed miserably. Like you said, "it goes both ways," except for the last 20 years, it's only been going one way......

Management is going to withhold news because some fans on MyGNR are pissed and rude? If that's the case, that's a fucked up business model. SoulMonster covered this pretty well already: Harsh criticism from patrons of your product should not be a disincentive to productivity; quite the opposite if you want to be taken seriously.

And even more lol at the "if we're well behaved, we'll get news:" Remember that MyGNR exclusive, 2-3 new songs in last year's touring?

And alfie, I really do like your posts, but I can't believe you used the term "undeserving fans." Are some of them pissed? Yeah. Hateful at times even? Maybe some. But no one who signs up on a GNR forum to talk about the band is "undeserving" of news.

Put it this way: you're the CEO of a major corporation, you have 20,000 investors owning public stock. The COO and CFO quit within months of each other after 7 years of no new products...... and there's still not any substantive news nor are there any press releases. Is it unreasonable for the people who have put their time and money into this organization to be quite pissed?

I don't think Mags comment was out of line since GNR/management themselves told their fans that they must either get on board or fuck off. That's not very nice.

Agreed. We're (mostly) all adults here, why can't we tell someone to "fuck off?" Mags wasn't being malicious or provocative; it was a disgruntled response. Now if mags had said, "fuck you, you bitch" or something like that - I'd be more understanding of the moderation.

Maybe I should have put it quotation marks, the reference to undeserving and hateful was a deliberate mirroring of how management have maybe viewed us in the past. It's not my opinion - I thought that much would be obvious.

It's fine if you disagree with my view, I don't think it is the job of the fans to painfully extract information under any normal circumstances but as the forum is under a new administration I think we should attempt to foster good relations and if it falls flat at least we know we made the best go of it.

I don't really see why anyone has a massive issue with this.

What do you mean by foster good relations? The fans have been fostering good relations with GNR/TB for the past 20 years by being diligent fans. Can't blame them if they get pissed when management then spits it back in their face (time and time again). Fernando came, and although he did say some nice things, overall he was evasive, and a bit rude - treating it like it was a game. People saw that, and reacted.

I don't know if it's all Axl, all TB, or a mix - but there has to be accountability somewhere.

Edited August 13, 2015 by OmarBradley

[SoulMonster]

Agreed. We're (mostly) all adults here, why can't we tell someone to "fuck off?" Mags wasn't being malicious or provocative; it was a disgruntled response. Now if mags had said, "fuck you, you bitch" or something like that - I'd be more understanding of the moderation.

Why we can't tell someone to fuck off? Seriously? Because it is an ad hominem attack that has nothing to do in conversations except between people who know each other well so it will be blatantly clear it is being said with no ill intent. On discussion boards it is mostly used as a veiled or very openly hostile comment that serves absolutely no purpose but to insult another person. Is normal behaviour for netiquette a completely foreign subject to some members here? Is there a sub culture thing where "fuck off" is a compliment?

I never saw it as malicious as you're saying it is. That's just my view. Have I ever told anyone here or on any forum to "fuck off?" No. I'm not saying everyone should always tell each other to fuck off, but if it happens once during a back and forth between two people who are not maliciously attacking each other, I don't see a huge issue.

You might be right, I never saw it. But given magisme's history of bashing the management, his typically abrasive and snarky comments, I think the mods did the right thing

[OmarBradley]

Agreed. We're (mostly) all adults here, why can't we tell someone to "fuck off?" Mags wasn't being malicious or provocative; it was a disgruntled response. Now if mags had said, "fuck you, you bitch" or something like that - I'd be more understanding of the moderation.

Why we can't tell someone to fuck off? Seriously? Because it is an ad hominem attack that has nothing to do in conversations except between people who know each other well so it will be blatantly clear it is being said with no ill intent. On discussion boards it is mostly used as a veiled or very openly hostile comment that serves absolutely no purpose but to insult another person. Is normal behaviour for netiquette a completely foreign subject to some members here? Is there a sub culture thing where "fuck off" is a compliment?

I never saw it as malicious as you're saying it is. That's just my view. Have I ever told anyone here or on any forum to "fuck off?" No. I'm not saying everyone should always tell each other to fuck off, but if it happens once during a back and forth between two people who are not maliciously attacking each other, I don't see a huge issue.

You might be right, I never saw it. But given magisme's history of arguing with me, I think the mods did the right thing

Fixed.

Just a jest.

On topic though, I don't think it was an easy situation to moderate. I've run forums before, but never anything this massive or involved in the exterior world outside the board. I get that there's a balancing act between being cordial and allowing expressive freedom, but like many others here I have noticed that regulation has recently become much more prominent than it used to be here. I haven't had a personal issue with it, but it's clear that many people have. I'd even say it's mostly been positive, though I have my gripes.