Gilby Clarke on the Reunion: "I don't think it's going to happen"

[WAR41]

I'm sorry but I seriously just lol'd.

On one hand you argue that Gilby is a legitimate member. Then on the other, argue that a legitimate reunion must include all original members. You repeated my point.

Axl, Slash, Duff and Izzy is as purist as it will get. Adler is most likely left out. Without Izzy and Adler, it is no longer a purist reunion and Matt is the only remaining of the replacements that are accepted as genuine past members.

This is why I speak of contributions. Nothing was released with Gilby's contributions. The only thing that contains Gilby is in your head. Your memories. This is a stupid circle argument and I'll just say it one last time. Gilby is not important in a reunion regardless of diehard nostalgia for the UYI tour.

Wow you sure are passionate about this whole argument. Funny thing is I don't disagree with you about one thing. Part of my desire for Gilby if Izzy won't do it is indeed nostalgia for the UYI tour! But we will never know how another replacement for Izzy would have fared on the UYI tour because it didn't happen (well.... except those few shows when Izzy replaced Gilby who replaced himself). I still say that Gilby added some stability and consistency to that band that was sorely needed at the time. Do I think he 'saved' the band? No way. I just think he was more important to the band that you do, and some of that definitely is nostalgia for the UYI tour.

[ChineseIRS]

Well using that strict definition, Matt and Dizzy were never GN'R members. In fact there has never been a GN'R member (apart from Axl) since late-1995. Ron Wood was also not a Stone until the early '90s.

Here is another statistic. Of total known gigs (430), Gilby played 32% of them (138). Still, you do not like facts, do you?

Richard Fortus has played 350 out of a total 770 Guns N' Roses shows. That's 45%. I like facts.

And not one of them are bona fide GN'R gigs.

Matt and Dizzy performed on an original release, had an actual consensus of being longterm and had an actual agreement that lasted beyond the tour. Gilby played covers on TSI while they were waiting for Axl to finish UYI and during tour downtime. Outside of the tour, Gilby was never considered a longterm member. That is your fact.

Why are you focusing on percentages of shows played? I've already conceded he was a touring member. Just like Tracey and Roberta.

Step outside and ask someone if Gilby Clarke is important in a GNR reunion. See if you can break through the wall of responses of "Gilby who?" That will tell you just how important he is to what you consider a "legitimate reunion."

You want to take it as I'm bashing Gilby and that isn't the case. I'm just not blinded by a hate of nugnr to where I pick any and all members outside of them and call them legitimate simply because Slash was in the band. I don't consider any of nugnr to be legitimate members(including Dizzy) as they are just a backing band. Axl is the only important member to the public in this version of the band.

And once a GNR reunion takes place, the reunion is certified as long as Axl, Slash and Duff are a part of it. And that's not to slight Izzy but I am also not deluded enough to think that the public would dismiss an Axl, Slash and Duff reunion as being GNR if Izzy or Gilby aren't there.

Also, I'm not deluded enough to think that Axl would totally cave in to the point where he tells Fortus to fuck off for Gilby. It isn't going to happen for you.

You are factually incorrect. Firstly, Gilby did not join the band until after Illusion was released. Gilby's tracks were recorded during the tour in various studios: Izzy's tracks were re-recorded and various extra songs were recorded inflating the EP to an album.

Secondly, If Gilby was 'never considered long term' why did Slash disagree with his sacking and why did Slash find himself (with Matt) writing for the future Guns album? If Gilby's band position was considered akin to ''Tracey and Roberta'', why are Tracey and Roberta not in the TSI sleeve alongside Axl, Slash, Duff, Matt and Dizzy? Gilby has his picture there!

The idea that he was ''never long term'' is something Axl pulled out of his arse in 1994 because he wanted Tobias in the group. Axl was probably already envisioning GN'R in 1994 as a group in which he could switch members around ad nauseam.

Actually theres an interview with Axl from '91 on Rockline right after Gilby joins and he says in there that he doesnt know if Gilby will be involved in any writing with Guns. Something to that effect. Its on Youtube.

Edit: For some reason I cant post the link here. But search Axl Rose - Rockline Interview and its at the 10 minute mark. Seems he wanted to keep options open for the next album even then.

Edited October 7, 2015 by ChineseIRS

[Bards]

He is a connection to the legitimate band and not associated with hacks

The legitimate band exists with or without him. Slash and Duff are the must haves. Izzy is the bonus. The public wouldn't give two shits about Gilby being there as some sort of "legitimate" member especially considering that he never achieved that position. He, like Ashba, were nothing more than touring members. That's the reality.

and roses and was appointed by a consensus with the band operating as a proper band, whereas there is nothing consensual about Axl's freak show. The partnership is completely relevant. Did you know that Guns were actually dissolved? A new band was created in their place which just so happens to carry the same name as the old band. Legally the band masquerading as Guns are not the same band as that which existed prior to 1995.

There was never a consensus on Gilby being a fulltime member before the dissolve. Gilby knew when the last show was played that his part was done.

"He brings a (false) sense of legitimacy" doesn't quite work either. Only diehards bickering over this would give a shit. Gilby's presence doesn't make or break anything! Therefore.... NOT important.

You're saying all this while arguing for Richard Fortus to be part of a GNR REUNION TOUR. Think about that.

[The Glow Inc.]

My main argument for Fortus being part of this is that he is an amazing guitarist, which Gilby never was.

If Axl was to pick someone who isn't Izzy, in my opinion, he should pick the best guitarist possible...

That is all.

[Rustycage]

He is a connection to the legitimate band and not associated with hacks

The legitimate band exists with or without him. Slash and Duff are the must haves. Izzy is the bonus. The public wouldn't give two shits about Gilby being there as some sort of "legitimate" member especially considering that he never achieved that position. He, like Ashba, were nothing more than touring members. That's the reality.

and roses and was appointed by a consensus with the band operating as a proper band, whereas there is nothing consensual about Axl's freak show. The partnership is completely relevant. Did you know that Guns were actually dissolved? A new band was created in their place which just so happens to carry the same name as the old band. Legally the band masquerading as Guns are not the same band as that which existed prior to 1995.

There was never a consensus on Gilby being a fulltime member before the dissolve. Gilby knew when the last show was played that his part was done.

"He brings a (false) sense of legitimacy" doesn't quite work either. Only diehards bickering over this would give a shit. Gilby's presence doesn't make or break anything! Therefore.... NOT important.

You're saying all this while arguing for Richard Fortus to be part of a GNR REUNION TOUR. Think about that.

I'm not arguing FOR any of them. I am simply saying that Gilby is no more important than Fortus in regards to a reunion. Neither Gilby or Fortus can make or break a "legitimate reunion."

[Bards]

He is a connection to the legitimate band and not associated with hacks

The legitimate band exists with or without him. Slash and Duff are the must haves. Izzy is the bonus. The public wouldn't give two shits about Gilby being there as some sort of "legitimate" member especially considering that he never achieved that position. He, like Ashba, were nothing more than touring members. That's the reality.

and roses and was appointed by a consensus with the band operating as a proper band, whereas there is nothing consensual about Axl's freak show. The partnership is completely relevant. Did you know that Guns were actually dissolved? A new band was created in their place which just so happens to carry the same name as the old band. Legally the band masquerading as Guns are not the same band as that which existed prior to 1995.

There was never a consensus on Gilby being a fulltime member before the dissolve. Gilby knew when the last show was played that his part was done.

"He brings a (false) sense of legitimacy" doesn't quite work either. Only diehards bickering over this would give a shit. Gilby's presence doesn't make or break anything! Therefore.... NOT important.

You're saying all this while arguing for Richard Fortus to be part of a GNR REUNION TOUR. Think about that.

I'm not arguing FOR any of them. I am simply saying that Gilby is no more important than Fortus in regards to a reunion. Neither Gilby or Fortus can make or break a "legitimate reunion."

How Fortus' name even gets mentioned as a candidate is beyond me. Gilby was at least in the band during the heyday, Fortus has the stench of the failed CD experiment on him. Why try to shoehorn him in to a GNR "reunion"? It literally makes no sense.

You can sell Gilby as part of "classic GNR", you can't with Fortus.

[Rustycage]

He is a connection to the legitimate band and not associated with hacks

The legitimate band exists with or without him. Slash and Duff are the must haves. Izzy is the bonus. The public wouldn't give two shits about Gilby being there as some sort of "legitimate" member especially considering that he never achieved that position. He, like Ashba, were nothing more than touring members. That's the reality.

and roses and was appointed by a consensus with the band operating as a proper band, whereas there is nothing consensual about Axl's freak show. The partnership is completely relevant. Did you know that Guns were actually dissolved? A new band was created in their place which just so happens to carry the same name as the old band. Legally the band masquerading as Guns are not the same band as that which existed prior to 1995.

There was never a consensus on Gilby being a fulltime member before the dissolve. Gilby knew when the last show was played that his part was done.

"He brings a (false) sense of legitimacy" doesn't quite work either. Only diehards bickering over this would give a shit. Gilby's presence doesn't make or break anything! Therefore.... NOT important.

You're saying all this while arguing for Richard Fortus to be part of a GNR REUNION TOUR. Think about that.

I'm not arguing FOR any of them. I am simply saying that Gilby is no more important than Fortus in regards to a reunion. Neither Gilby or Fortus can make or break a "legitimate reunion."

How Fortus' name even gets mentioned as a candidate is beyond me.

It's pretty simple.

1. Slash has wanted to play with Fortus in the past.
2. The reunion will be a large compromise between Axl and Slash
3. Fortus is that compromise

Gilby was Slash's guy and there was never a plan to write with him. Gilby was considered a touring replacement. When speaking of which is logical, Fortus is more logical a choice as a replacement since according to some around here, without Izzy, it isn't a pure reunion. So again, neither Gilby or Fortus will hurt the label of reunion when BOTH are simply replacements.

[Bards]

1. Slash has wanted to play with Fortus in the past.

Slash has played or wanted to play with just about everybody. Moot point when we're talking about a GNR reunion.

1. The reunion will be a large compromise between Axl and Slash
2. Fortus is that compromise

Fortus *is* that compromise? Of the myriad of issues between Axl and Slash, how on earth do you place that much importance on Richard Fortus?

Gilby was Slash's guy and there was never a plan to write with him. Gilby was considered a touring replacement.

He was part of the band at their zenith. Touring replacement or not, you can sell him as part of "classic GNR". He was with the band when they were at their most visible.

. When speaking of which is logical, Fortus is more logical a choice as a replacement since according to some around here, without Izzy, it isn't a pure reunion. So again, neither Gilby or Fortus will hurt the label of reunion when BOTH are simply replacements.

Advocating for Fortus to be part of a reunion of a band he wasn't in is really tripping over your own logic here.

[The Glow Inc.]

Would ANYONE complain if there indeed was a reunion ( Axl, Slash and Duff sharing a stage ) and Fortus ( a much stronger guitarist ) was picked over Gilby ?

Really ?

[Rustycage]

1. Slash has wanted to play with Fortus in the past.

Slash has played or wanted to play with just about everybody. Moot point when we're talking about a GNR reunion.

1. The reunion will be a large compromise between Axl and Slash
2. Fortus is that compromise

Fortus *is* that compromise? Of the myriad of issues between Axl and Slash, how on earth do you place that much importance on Richard Fortus?

Gilby was Slash's guy and there was never a plan to write with him. Gilby was considered a touring replacement.

He was part of the band at their zenith. Touring replacement or not, you can sell him as part of "classic GNR". He was with the band when they were at their most visible.

. When speaking of which is logical, Fortus is more logical a choice as a replacement since according to some around here, without Izzy, it isn't a pure reunion. So again, neither Gilby or Fortus will hurt the label of reunion when BOTH are simply replacements.

Advocating for Fortus to be part of a reunion of a band he wasn't in is really tripping over your own logic here.

To clarify: Classic GNR is Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven.

Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Matt and Dizzy is the UYI lineup.

As for everything else, I'm not repeating myself any longer. I'm not going to repeat a million times why a replacement is still a replacement. Also, if someone cannot understand that I am not advocating Fortus over Gilby, I probably should just stop completely since I have stated that NEITHER make a difference except to a few people on GNR boards that want to argue purity when Gilby isn't part of a pure reunion.

Would ANYONE complain if there indeed was a reunion ( Axl, Slash and Duff sharing a stage ) and Fortus ( a much stronger guitarist ) was picked over Gilby ?

Really ?

Apparently so.

[Seb91]

Would ANYONE complain if there indeed was a reunion ( Axl, Slash and Duff sharing a stage ) and Fortus ( a much stronger guitarist ) was picked over Gilby ?

Really ?

I highly doubt any casual fans would. Look at the Black Sabbath 'reunion' - the lack of Bill Ward didn't have any impact on ticket or album sales. Whilst Gilby would give it a more 'classic' vibe as he was a touring member before the great schism I wouldn't be surprised if, in the event of Izzy not being up for a reunion, Fortus is picked as a concession to Axl.

Adler is unreliable and Izzy tends to be a bit flaky so if pigs fly and a reunion (of sorts) happens I doubt it'd be the AFD lineup. Personally, if the lineup was Axl, Slash, Duff, Fortus, Dizzy and Matt I don't think casual fans would be overly disappointed. I also wouldn't be surprised if it is still billed as a 'reunion' (again, look at Sabbath).

Edited October 7, 2015 by BassistSeb

[MrSoftie]

Well using that strict definition, Matt and Dizzy were never GN'R members. In fact there has never been a GN'R member (apart from Axl) since late-1995. Ron Wood was also not a Stone until the early '90s.

Here is another statistic. Of total known gigs (430), Gilby played 32% of them (138). Still, you do not like facts, do you?

Richard Fortus has played 350 out of a total 770 Guns N' Roses shows. That's 45%. I like facts.

And not one of them are bona fide GN'R gigs.

Uh, no really, he's in the real, only, "bona fide" Guns N' Roses - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_N%27_Roses#Members

[passenger57]

This article peaked my interest. Fortus says they are using Slash's 'old' material. Maybe that's code for Slash recording on Chinese Dem2. The article is dated Dec 2014, and presumably Slash and Axl reconciled by this point, so it's logical to assume Slash is or was working with that material.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/gnr_using_slashs_old_material_for_new_album_guitarist_says.html

[DieselDaisy]

You cannot argue with Rusty. He insists on Gilby being a 'touring musician' despite the fact that Gilby played on a studio album. He insists on Gilby being on the same pedestal as 'Tracey and Roberta' despite the fact that Gilby was marketed as a 'Guns N' Roses' member. He insists on Gilby merely being a temporary non-songwriting thing despite the fact that Slash (and Matt) collaborated with him on GN'R demos.

It is like talking to a bucket of shite.

[Rustycage]

You cannot argue with Rusty. He insists on Gilby being a 'touring musician' despite the fact that Gilby played on a studio album. He insists on Gilby being on the same pedestal as 'Tracey and Roberta' despite the fact that Gilby was marketed as a 'Guns N' Roses' member. He insists on Gilby merely being a temporary non-songwriting thing despite the fact that Slash (and Matt) collaborated with him on GN'R demos.

It is like talking to a bucket of shite.

Angry man.

Gilby doesn't matter. Fortus doesn't matter. Dizzy doesn't matter. Paul doesn't matter. Tracey and Roberta do not matter. Wake up and smell the bucket of shite.

[DieselDaisy]

You cannot argue with Rusty. He insists on Gilby being a 'touring musician' despite the fact that Gilby played on a studio album. He insists on Gilby being on the same pedestal as 'Tracey and Roberta' despite the fact that Gilby was marketed as a 'Guns N' Roses' member. He insists on Gilby merely being a temporary non-songwriting thing despite the fact that Slash (and Matt) collaborated with him on GN'R demos.

It is like talking to a bucket of shite.

Angry man.

Gilby doesn't matter. Fortus doesn't matter. Dizzy doesn't matter. Paul doesn't matter. Tracey and Roberta do not matter. Wake up and smell the bucket of shite.

By your logic, a reunion merely has to be Axl and Slash. Duff does not matter. Matt, Adler, Izzy - none of these people matter.

[Rustycage]

You cannot argue with Rusty. He insists on Gilby being a 'touring musician' despite the fact that Gilby played on a studio album. He insists on Gilby being on the same pedestal as 'Tracey and Roberta' despite the fact that Gilby was marketed as a 'Guns N' Roses' member. He insists on Gilby merely being a temporary non-songwriting thing despite the fact that Slash (and Matt) collaborated with him on GN'R demos.

It is like talking to a bucket of shite.

Angry man.

Gilby doesn't matter. Fortus doesn't matter. Dizzy doesn't matter. Paul doesn't matter. Tracey and Roberta do not matter. Wake up and smell the bucket of shite.

By your logic, a reunion merely has to be Axl and Slash. Duff does not matter. Matt, Adler, Izzy - none of these people matter.

Yet that isn't what I have said. It's like arguing with a bucket of strawmen.

[DieselDaisy]

You cannot argue with Rusty. He insists on Gilby being a 'touring musician' despite the fact that Gilby played on a studio album. He insists on Gilby being on the same pedestal as 'Tracey and Roberta' despite the fact that Gilby was marketed as a 'Guns N' Roses' member. He insists on Gilby merely being a temporary non-songwriting thing despite the fact that Slash (and Matt) collaborated with him on GN'R demos.

It is like talking to a bucket of shite.

Angry man.

Gilby doesn't matter. Fortus doesn't matter. Dizzy doesn't matter. Paul doesn't matter. Tracey and Roberta do not matter. Wake up and smell the bucket of shite.

By your logic, a reunion merely has to be Axl and Slash. Duff does not matter. Matt, Adler, Izzy - none of these people matter.

Yet that isn't what I have said. It's like arguing with a bucket of strawmen.

Well it would not be a reunion. It would be an individual reunion between Axl and Slash but it would not be a 'Guns N' Roses' reunion.

When Page and Plant reunited in 1994 they didn't call it 'Led Zeppelin'.

[Rustycage]

You cannot argue with Rusty. He insists on Gilby being a 'touring musician' despite the fact that Gilby played on a studio album. He insists on Gilby being on the same pedestal as 'Tracey and Roberta' despite the fact that Gilby was marketed as a 'Guns N' Roses' member. He insists on Gilby merely being a temporary non-songwriting thing despite the fact that Slash (and Matt) collaborated with him on GN'R demos.

It is like talking to a bucket of shite.

Angry man.

Gilby doesn't matter. Fortus doesn't matter. Dizzy doesn't matter. Paul doesn't matter. Tracey and Roberta do not matter. Wake up and smell the bucket of shite.

By your logic, a reunion merely has to be Axl and Slash. Duff does not matter. Matt, Adler, Izzy - none of these people matter.

Yet that isn't what I have said. It's like arguing with a bucket of strawmen.

Well it would not be a reunion. It would be an individual reunion between Axl and Slash but it would not be a 'Guns N' Roses' reunion.

When Page and Plant reunited in 1994 they didn't call it 'Led Zeppelin'.

Again the strawman. The main focus is Axl and Slash. Always has been and always will be. That is where the great rift is or was. That is not the same as saying the rest do not matter.

Axl, Slash and Duff are absolutely necessary. Izzy and Adler/Sorum is a bonus. Anything else are simple replacements. <Is that really hard for you to comprehend? If you don't agree, I don't give a shit. You won't change my mind on it.

[Free Bird]

If they really think and talk about a reunion I can't imagine this will happen without Izzy Stradlin.

While a reunion is not easy going and they all have to find some compromises, maybe Axl's condition will be to keep a third guitarist in the band. In this case I truly believe it will be Fortus.

[ChineseIRS]

Axl qoute from '92.

DEL: Now that we've taken care of that, what about the flipside of the coin: the new guys, especially guitarist Gilby Clarke?

AXL: Gilby is awesome, and a pleasure to be around. He works the stage and the crowd really well. Also, he helps give us a sense of rock 'n' roll normalcy - if there is such thing. Gilby has a way of understanding and dealing with situations that makes the whole trip more tolerable. His insights from being on the outside of GN'R helps us. He has his opinions of what's going on with us, and it helps us get a different perspective, ' cause Slash, Duff and myself have been in GN'R for so long and are so close to it that sometimes we don't see things like other people would. Every now and then he'll say something to me, and I'll go, "Wow, I didn't see it that way." He's been putting himself through his own rock-and-roll education with his other groups for years. Now he's a part of Guns N' Roses.

DEL: Is he a "member" of Guns N' Roses?

AXL: This "member" thing is quite interesting, I read in an interview where Matt [sorum, drummer] said that if he didn't get made a member, he wasn't going to be in Guns N' Roses. The truth of the matter is, Matt's a member of GN'R, but it doesn't really mean anything. It's kind of like a clubhouse/gang thing. We're all members of this gang. What it boils down to is, whose yard is the tree house in? Matt's a member of GN'R, and his opinions are taken into consideration. As far as that's concerned, Gilby is a member too, Dizzy is a member of the band. With all the background singers, horn players, keyboardists - we look at it like we're all Guns N' Roses. But the bottom line is, the business is basically run by Slash and myself. Then we run whatever it is we're discussing by Duff and see if he's cool with it. Guns N' Roses is basically Slash, Duff, Doug Goldstein and myself, but there's a lot of other people involved that are a part of our lives and a part of our family.

[DieselDaisy]

You cannot argue with Rusty. He insists on Gilby being a 'touring musician' despite the fact that Gilby played on a studio album. He insists on Gilby being on the same pedestal as 'Tracey and Roberta' despite the fact that Gilby was marketed as a 'Guns N' Roses' member. He insists on Gilby merely being a temporary non-songwriting thing despite the fact that Slash (and Matt) collaborated with him on GN'R demos.

It is like talking to a bucket of shite.

Angry man.

Gilby doesn't matter. Fortus doesn't matter. Dizzy doesn't matter. Paul doesn't matter. Tracey and Roberta do not matter. Wake up and smell the bucket of shite.

By your logic, a reunion merely has to be Axl and Slash. Duff does not matter. Matt, Adler, Izzy - none of these people matter.

Yet that isn't what I have said. It's like arguing with a bucket of strawmen.

Well it would not be a reunion. It would be an individual reunion between Axl and Slash but it would not be a 'Guns N' Roses' reunion.

When Page and Plant reunited in 1994 they didn't call it 'Led Zeppelin'.

Again the strawman. The main focus is Axl and Slash. Always has been and always will be. That is where the great rift is or was. That is not the same as saying the rest do not matter.

Axl, Slash and Duff are absolutely necessary. Izzy and Adler/Sorum is a bonus. Anything else are simple replacements. <Is that really hard for you to comprehend? If you don't agree, I don't give a shit. You won't change my mind on it.

Oh so Duff is 'necessary' now! I do not agree in the slightest. Firstly, you are arguing from the perspective of the dumb casual who only knows September Rain and Axl and Slash. Most rock fans are better informed and know of the other members. Secondly, most reunions refer to a distinct line-up and thus include peripheral members. They usually do not entail a mere rapprochement between two individuals. When Kiss reunited in 1996 it was the 1970s Love Gun era line-up. If Peter Criss was not present it would have been something less than a reunion.

[Rustycage]

Interesting indeed. Especially how he jumps from Gilby as a member to naming background singers, horn players and keyboardists as members.

Axl qoute from '92.


DEL: Now that we've taken care of that, what about the flipside of the coin: the new guys, especially guitarist Gilby Clarke?
AXL: Gilby is a member too, Dizzy is a member of the band. With all the background singers, horn players, keyboardists - we look at it like we're all Guns N' Roses.

And this part sounds familiar except for Goldstein.

But the bottom line is, the business is basically run by Slash and myself. Then we run whatever it is we're discussing by Duff and see if he's cool with it. Guns N' Roses is basically Slash, Duff, Doug Goldstein and myself, but there's a lot of other people involved that are a part of our lives and a part of our family.

I don't agree with downplaying Izzy but that's how it is. The public accepted Izzy and Steven's departure but the others not so much.

[The Glow Inc.]

Yet which option do you think Axl and Slash would pick ?

Touring with unreliable members for the sake of "rock fans" or touring with more reliable people in order to fill arenas with casual fans ?

Look at what option they have been picking for the last twenty years or so...

Who cares if it isn't worthy of being called a "true reunion" ? You'd still buy a ticket, don't lie to yourself...

[ChineseIRS]

"We have a person that we're working with named Gilby Clarke who has played around Hollywood about as long as us. And um, but I dont know about the next album, you know, we're still talking with other people and stuff, as far as that goes." Axl, Rockline '91.