GNR Women's discussion

[Asia]

Just now, Rocketqueen76 said:

@Asia do you have a link to the video?

No, it was years ago that I warched it. Anyway the smile can even be heard in his voice...

[killuridols]

8 hours ago, john lennon said:

Definitely each case is different; I was just using my friend as an example as to show that just because you might go to great lengths trying to do things that other might perceive as weird and creepy, but that you might actually honestly believe will have a good outcome, it doesn't mean you are creepy or that your intentions necessarily are, either, or that your supposed feelings are just lies or delusions. Get what I mean? I know I'm expressing myself quite incoherently right now, pre-coffee, you know? And hungover. 

And I get that you backed off from it, I think I saw that as well? Idk I never really reflect on who says what in threads, only what they say. Anyway, all good, right? 

I do understand what you said and you expressed yourself pretty well

I agree with you and I repeat, it really depends on the case. In your friend's case, it looks like it turned out right and he recovered the woman he loved and she agreed with all of that. Fine.

Now, there are other cases when these so called "grand gestures" are just a mask and a move many men make in order to fix some bad damage they've done. I dont know what Axl did to Stephanie that he thought he needed a white horse and go "fairy tale" with her in order to obtain her pardon.

I'm just saying because I've seen it, not with me, but with other people...... men cheating on their wives or beating them up or doing some vile crap and then coming back to apologize with jewels, flowers, chocolates, expensive shoes, plane tickets or some material bullshit they think the woman will swallow and totally forget what they did.

That was my point.

[Frey]

20 hours ago, killuridols said:

I think he was bad enough. He was out of control: every time he went into one of his rage outbursts he destroyed hotel rooms, tv sets, telephones, anything that was on his way. He attacked people at the shows and looked for fights on the street. Didn't he throw a girl down stairs for refusing to have sex with him? Didn't he attack the neighbor Gabriella Kantor with a bottle?

He overdosed on pills and threatened Erin with a gun, that he would kill himself if she didn't marry him.
He allegedly beated Erin up to hell, several times, sending her to the hospital, destroying all of her belongings, according to Meegan's testimony.

For much less than that people do get locked up (at least here).

But Axl was a different case, he was a "useful" nuts and there was money to be made with him- That's why instead of institutionalization he had so many "nannies" and people looking after him like Niven, Goldstein and all of their assistants. And he got that Susie London charlatan to do the regression therapy for him, while he was on the road.... I assume that's all the help they could give him without having to put him out of circulation.

Unfortunately there are plenty of men around who beat their partners, destroy stuff and constantly get into fights. Plenty of suicidal people too. And most of them have never been and will never be institutionalized. So "bad enough" is very subjective and vague.

It's a bit of a moot point in Axl's case anyway; he wouldn't have gone voluntarily and if he had been institutionalized against his will, it wouldn't have ended well either. He'd probably have busted out of there as soon as possible or pulled some crazy stunt... like biting a doctor's leg or something

Agreed about Axl's babysitters and nannies. It's weird to think about how Axl has more or less had care takers since the 80s and will probably have them for the rest of his life.

 

20 hours ago, KiraMPD said:

Agreed. I would just like to add that one also has to consider the state and quality of mental healthcare provided in the late 80's/90's. I have little insight on it (especially since I was barely alive back then), but from the few case studies I have read... it wasn't great. There is also the general public perception to think about and the stigma that would be associated with being sectioned/forcibly institutionalised. Even today the stigma exists; just look at the different reactions people had to Selena Gomez talking about her issues during the AMAs to the reaction people had to Kanye West (quite obviously) having a breakdown on stage. Sure, people/the media a more willing to be sympathetic towards mental illness but only if you are functional and are willing to "bravely" talk about it on a public platform. *smh*

With regards to Axl specifically, I don't know if such an action would lead to a positive outcome for him. I could be argued that a majority of Axl's control issues stem from an oppressed past where he had little to non power or control over his own life. To then suddenly remove that power and autonomy might not have ended well...

"In high school, you know, Axl, he had long, red hair, he was a little guy and he got a lot of shit [because of it]. I think he never got laid, too, in school. I hate to bring this up cos this is getting nasty,” he laughs. “But he never got no pussy at school, Axl. So now the guy’s a big fucking rock star, he’s got the chicks lined up, he’s got money and he’s got people… and the power went to this guy’s head. I mean, he was a fucking monster! Nuts! Crazy!" ... "For [Axl] the money wasn't as big a deal. But he had this power thing where he wanted complete control. And you can say, well, it goes back to your fucked up childhood where his dad used to smack him around, you know, and he had no control, so now he’s getting it back." - Izzy Stradlin: Life And Death, Sex And Drugs And Guns N' Roses, originally appeared in Classic Rock #28, Link

Sounds interesting. I've always wondered about this... I'll try searching through the thread to find that discussion. Thanks!  

 

Yeah, we had a discussion about Axl's lack of control in childhood and the consequences of that at some point as well here (Sometimes I feel like we've already discussed every weird ass topic in this thread, but new ones just keep coming usually). I think someone posted a quote of Axl saying his parents beat him for 20 years. Then people were discussing whether that was an exaggeration or if he really meant that and I remember saying something about how it's quite possible his stepfather was still beating him when he was 16 or so, since Axl's parents also still forced him to dress and cut his hair the way they wanted to when he was that age (which felt particulary fucked up to me because I've dressed and worn my hair however I wanted since I was a young kid basically and the thought of parents having that much power over a 16 year old is...  to me).

Let me know if you need help finding the discussion about that Slaxl video.

 

13 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

He sang it at the Indiana show before that one

Which I believe is before the show when Axl had a go at Slash?

And there was only me here that thought Axl was upset at Slash, everyone else said he was joking 

What? I thought we all thought Axl was upset because it looks like he's pouting in the video, gives Duff the cold shoulder and then Duff goes to comfort Slash.

But then @Asia said it was all in good fun, so

 

7 hours ago, Asia said:

Yes, I'm sure he was joking, that dedication was some half-assed Slash's style apology, I think. Not sure what for cause the sound quality was awful but I guess it had to do with Slash being high and fucking up during some previous show.

As for making another Slaxl video - well I'd love to but to be honset, so far so good, I don't think the Slaxl footage available from this tour is Slaxl enough to really bother... Still hoping somewhat that this will change but my hope is seriously thinning now...

What? Axl tickling Slash and looking at Slash with heart eyes all the time (practically beaming every time he gets near him and teases him), and shit like their potential shirt sharing and everything else is not Slaxl-ish enough for you? Are you waiting for them to make out on stage or something?

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by Frey

[Tori72]

If anyone could link this vid you are all discussing about? When Slash talks, Duff tries to comfort Axl and its either fun or serious, then: Thank you. I have no clue what you're talking about 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

@Frey I know that's what was thought at first. But I still don't think he was joking, I still think he was being pissy about it 

Thats what I meant!!

Edited December 15, 2016 by MillionsOfSpiders

[Frey]

27 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

@Frey I know that's what was thought at first. But I still don't think he was joking, I still think he was being pissy about it 

Thats what I meant!!

Yeah, I'm not convinced he was joking either, the entire situation just seems tense to me and like a typical example of Axl being pissy.

 

32 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

If anyone could link this vid you are all discussing about? When Slash talks, Duff tries to comfort Axl and its either fun or serious, then: Thank you. I have no clue what you're talking about 

What??

Axl says something like "Fuck you, Slash. I know what that little dedication is about. I love you too." Slash seems confused/shocked. Duff then goes over to Axl, but Axl immediately gives Duff the cold shoulder and turns away. Sings a couple of lines of Only Women Bleed and the disappears. Duff goes over to hug/comfort Slash.

 

Video of the incident:

On 24.8.2016 at 6:39 PM, RooSaa said:

Fuck you Slash/I love you too is from this concert, starts at 1:53:31. Unfortunately there is a cut inbetween, can't see the talk but they seem to have argued about something?

 

 

The entire discussion starts on page 254 and goes on from there. It was brought on by @Asias Slaxl video, which contained the scene in the video above. Everything clear as mud now?

@KiraMPD also relevant for you, if you haven't found it yet.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by Frey

[MillionsOfSpiders]

@Frey I thought I was the only one left that thought it  I just gave up arguing at the time because I couldn't be bothered to carry it on. Nothing about the way Axl acts and the others around him seems to be in a jokey way. 

[killuridols]

20 minutes ago, Frey said:

Unfortunately there are plenty of men around who beat their partners, destroy stuff and constantly get into fights. Plenty of suicidal people too. And most of them have never been and will never be institutionalized. So "bad enough" is very subjective and vague.

It's a bit of a moot point in Axl's case anyway; he wouldn't have gone voluntarily and if he had been institutionalized against his will, it wouldn't have ended well either. He'd probably have busted out of there as soon as possible or pulled some crazy stunt... like biting a doctor's leg or something

Agreed about Axl's babysitters and nannies. It's weird to think about how Axl has more or less had care takers since the 80s and will probably have them for the rest of his life.

It is also subjective and vague to say there are plenty of suicidal people and destroyers out there doing whatever they want...

Maybe in the jungle but not in the modern societies most of us are part of, which have institutions that exercize control over their citizens and punishment to those who are a threat to the social order.
Call it school, mental hospital, jail, police department, private and public survillaince, justice system, government and now, even Facebook.
Collective coercion is nothing new.

Like I said before, Axl was a good candidate for a time in mental hospital. He said himself he was suicidal and that if he didn't do "the work" he did in 1992, he would have definitely "check out".
Mental hospital was never an option for the reasons I gave before and I also posted a link to the 'Interview' interview where he mentions why he can't afford to stop at that moment.

Yes, TB are his caretakers at the present times. Three people in charge of one and he will probably need more, as Beta will age faster than him.

[Tori72]

@Frey Yeah, thanks very much. All clear now 

[KiraMPD]

2 hours ago, Frey said:

The entire discussion starts on page 254 and goes on from there. It was brought on by @Asias Slaxl video, which contained the scene in the video above. Everything clear as mud now?

@KiraMPD also relevant for you, if you haven't found it yet.

Thanks for that! I've now read and caught up with that portion of the thread (still a long way to go as far as reading the whole thread). Seems like a solid conclusion wasn't reached but @Asia, who did hear the missing portion between BOB and KOHD, confirmed that it was said in jest? However, my curiosity has been piqued and am now on the hunt for that recording. I have a feeling that it is in one of the audio bootlegs... I'll post it here if I ever find it.

 

3 hours ago, Frey said:

Yeah, we had a discussion about Axl's lack of control in childhood and the consequences of that at some point as well here (Sometimes I feel like we've already discussed every weird ass topic in this thread, but new ones just keep coming usually). I think someone posted a quote of Axl saying his parents beat him for 20 years. Then people were discussing whether that was an exaggeration or if he really meant that and I remember saying something about how it's quite possible his stepfather was still beating him when he was 16 or so, since Axl's parents also still forced him to dress and cut his hair the way they wanted to when he was that age (which felt particularly fucked up to me because I've dressed and worn my hair however I wanted since I was a young kid basically and the thought of parents having that much power over a 16 year old is...  to me).

I am aware that this has been discussed to death before but I merely brought it up with regards to the hypothetical scenario of forced institutionalisation proposed by @killuridols. The quote was simply there to further illustrate my point.

 

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

Like I said before, Axl was a good candidate for a time in mental hospital. He said himself he was suicidal and that if he didn't do "the work" he did in 1992, he would have definitely "check out".
Mental hospital was never an option for the reasons I gave before and I also posted a link to the 'Interview' interview where he mentions why he can't afford to stop at that moment.

IDK why, but this reminded me of the Kurt Loder interview where Axl mentions talking with Prince about how 27 is the hardest year, which could be taken as a reference to the 'Forever 27 Club'.

 

 

[Słash]

Btw....Fortus got married

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Can anyone tell me what the three hour meeting joke is all about? I see it here all the time, but i have phases where I don't read this forum so much and missed that one 

 

[SerenityScorp]

6 hours ago, Frey said:

What? I thought we all thought Axl was upset because it looks like he's pouting in the video, gives Duff the cold shoulder and then Duff goes to comfort Slash.

 

 

Poor Duff~ He's always get stuck in Slaxl relationship 

[killuridols]

3 hours ago, KiraMPD said:

IDK why, but this reminded me of the Kurt Loder interview where Axl mentions talking with Prince about how 27 is the hardest year, which could be taken as a reference to the 'Forever 27 Club'.

Yes, he meant that and later in that same interview he talks about how one of his suicide attempts (because Im sure there were others) inspired him to write 'Coma'.

Unfortunately, it looks like Axl was suicidal many more times during the 90's so I have to wonder what the hell did that regression therapy do for him?
I feel like it made him worse and provided no significant help since he remained problematic for the next 20 years.

[john lennon]

15 hours ago, killuridols said:

I do understand what you said and you expressed yourself pretty well

I agree with you and I repeat, it really depends on the case. In your friend's case, it looks like it turned out right and he recovered the woman he loved and she agreed with all of that. Fine.

Now, there are other cases when these so called "grand gestures" are just a mask and a move many men make in order to fix some bad damage they've done. I dont know what Axl did to Stephanie that he thought he needed a white horse and go "fairy tale" with her in order to obtain her pardon.

I'm just saying because I've seen it, not with me, but with other people...... men cheating on their wives or beating them up or doing some vile crap and then coming back to apologize with jewels, flowers, chocolates, expensive shoes, plane tickets or some material bullshit they think the woman will swallow and totally forget what they did.

That was my point.

I understand, and I agree. 

[Frey]

9 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Can anyone tell me what the three hour meeting joke is all about? I see it here all the time, but i have phases where I don't read this forum so much and missed that one 

I wasnt really here for it either, but apparently Fernando once mentioned TB having a 3 hour meeting regarding GNR business during the dark years, as if we were supposed to be impressed by that. Seeing as TB are shitty incompetent management who didnt move the band forward in any way during these years, people obviously made fun of him for that.

I'm kinda surprised that Nando would joke about it though, since the 3 hour meeting thing has only ever been used against him an his family.

 

 

[Padme]

11 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Can anyone tell me what the three hour meeting joke is all about? I see it here all the time, but i have phases where I don't read this forum so much and missed that one 

 

During dark times, with no news, an not much to be happy about. One day, out of nowhere, Fernando posted in his Instagram "3 hours meeting". It sounded silly at the time because he seemed to say "I do have a job, don't you see? We just had 3 hours meeting" So we started to make all kind of jokes because the guy posted that ONE out of 365 days in a year they were having a meeting. I mean he didn't explain anything. A meeting with who? Where? About what? We were not even sure he was telling the true. We still don't know what the alledge meeting was about. And ovbiously he was checking forums and he saw all the jokes. And some people in fact being angry at such a silly posting from his part. He even metioned that himself here and at HTGTH forum last year after DJ announced he was leaving the band. And Bumbelfoot with his silly innuendo and hints. 

He took a lot heat when he or other people talking on the band's behave issued a statement saying that they didn't know why Bumblefoot was didn't make a clear statement about his status in the band. Fernando was well awared about the jokes

[MillionsOfSpiders]

I thought it funny he would joke about it too, but at least he can do that I suppose  

So basically there's a band meeting of some sort, that he has to take a private plane to  Maybe he has Axl tagging along lol.

Duff appears to already be in LA, seeing as he played with some other band the other night. I thought he would've gone home, to Seattle. 

I can only hope they're going to be trying to negotiate with Izzy again, a little tiny tiny hope as it is  

Thanks @Padme and @Frey for the explanations. 

[Padme]

34 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I thought it funny he would joke about it too, but at least he can do that I suppose  

So basically there's a band meeting of some sort, that he has to take a private plane to  Maybe he has Axl tagging along lol.

Duff appears to already be in LA, seeing as he played with some other band the other night. I thought he would've gone home, to Seattle. 

I can only hope they're going to be trying to negotiate with Izzy again, a little tiny tiny hope as it is  

Thanks @Padme and @Frey for the explanations. 

 During the mess with DJ statement announcing he was leaving. And Bumbelfoot being mysterious with his silly hints. First we took aim at Bumblefoot because he didn't do what DJ did. In the middle of that mess. Fernando (we believe) issued a statement saying he didn't know why Bumblefoot was just hinting and playing games. So we were pissed because as mamanger how come he didn't know about all the hints and bullshit Bumblefoot was saying. He explained Bumblefoot told Axl back in South America 2014 that he was leaving. Axl knew, all of them knew. But nobody bothered to be clear.

Bumblefoot at some point said that he made an agreement not to talk. But he was talking all time with all kind of hints and innuendo. He didn't fully respect that agreement. So with all this mess, Fernando said at HTGTH something like "We all make mistakes. We are learning, blah, blah" And he mentioned the 3 hours meeting jokes we used to make. He mentioned that as an example to show he checks forums from time to time. He was kinda sarcastic saying those 3 hours meeting jokes were his favorites.

I guess this time he meant to tell us they are organizing something. And he decided to use that joke.

[money honey]

On 12/8/2016 at 11:37 PM, Blackstar said:

Yes, I know this quote and I agree. But there are people who have the impression that Axl was some sort of puritan in regards to drugs. I think the reasons Axl didn't become addicted were 1) that as he says, drugs, especially heroin, didn't "work" for him as it did for other people and they made him feel worse (probably due to his mental issues) and 2) despite being suicidal, he has had a strong instinct for survival and he sensed that if drugs by themselves could destroy him, the combination of them with his mental situation would be lethal; and this is why Axl survived (fortunately) and Kurt Cobain didn't.

Thank goodness that whatever else he was going through in those years, Axl had the mental clarity to realise these things about himself and drugs, and to limit his consumption accordingly. You're right @Blackstar that he is a survivor. I've said it here before, we can be thankful that he's still with us.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

18 minutes ago, Padme said:

 During the mess with DJ statement announcing he was leaving. And Bumbelfoot being mysterious with his silly hints. First we took aim at Bumblefoot because he didn't do what DJ did. In the middle of that mess. Fernando (we believe) issued a statement saying he didn't know why Bumblefoot was just hinting and playing games. So we were pissed because as mamanger how come he didn't know about all the hints and bullshit Bumblefoot was saying. He explained Bumblefoot told Axl back in South America 2014 that he was leaving. Axl knew, all of them knew. But nobody bothered to be clear.

Bumblefoot at some point said that he made an agreement not to talk. But he was talking all time with all kind of hints and innuendo. He didn't fully respect that agreement. So with all this mess, Fernando said at HTGTH something like "We all make mistakes. We are learning, blah, blah" And he mentioned the 3 hours meeting jokes we used to make. He mentioned that as an example to show he checks forums from time to time. He was kinda sarcastic saying those 3 hours meeting jokes were his favorites.

I guess this time he meant to tell us they are organizing something. And he decided to use that joke.

I remember the Bumblefoot silliness, but I think I just took no notice as he'd been whinging since before the tour I last saw about being in the band and all of the pain he was in  I can remember thinking he seemed quite bitter at being asked to tour when his back/shoulder??? Was hurting so much and so why not just quit, but he didn't and carried it on, so I think I just switched off from it and that's when I missed the whole Fernando thing. Sounds like it was fun 

I am nosey and had a look at who replied to Fernandos latest meeting post. There seems to be at least two more photographers in there that I didn't know about that have been following the band and taking pictures. How many do they need? Lol. 

[Rocketqueen76]

Has anyone seen the short film based on Duff's book? I watched it yesterday and I found it pretty interesting.

[Fansince88]

10 minutes ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Has anyone seen the short film based on Duff's book? I watched it yesterday and I found it pretty interesting.

I watched it a few weeks ago and yes it is very interesting. How can your heart not melt a little when he talks about Susan having the "Warrior spirit of 10 men"  and the birth of Grace.  It's fascinating to watch how Duff has evolved over the years. 

[Rocketqueen76]

23 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

I watched it a few weeks ago and yes it is very interesting. How can your heart not melt a little when he talks about Susan having the "Warrior spirit of 10 men"  and the birth of Grace.  It's fascinating to watch how Duff has evolved over the years. 

I actually cried when Duff talked about Susan and Grace. Watching them exchange vows was soooo....

[Tori72]

 

I watched it too even though I knew most of it out of other interviews. Funnily he even uses the same words in all his interviews to describe those events in his life.

How can you not be in awe of Duff regarding how much he evolved and flipped his life around. Becoming sober, working out on a level like this, studying, marrying, being a father. Each of it those is awesome, but all together - while staying the rockstar he is and writing and playing new music and being on the road - he is just great.

I hope he stays sober (after his backlash in 2002 or so?). He seems to be such a proud Dad and adores his wife. The two of them are pouring happiness and love, it seems. 

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Tori72