John Kalodner thinks that GNR wont release a great album

[Rovim]

27 minutes ago, Towelie said:

I don't believe that. Certain artists I follow have consistently written outstanding material well past their supposed "prime". I mean, what do people really mean when we talk about an "artists prime"? It's youth primarily, because as a society, we celebrate youth and shy away from acknowledging age. I suppose we associate ageing with deterioration, complacency and a changing of priorities which aren't necessarily conducive to the output of great art. But it's all about the individual. Some artists lose it with age, others carry on just as good as they ever were. David Bowie put out one of his best albums when he was dying of cancer. Neil Young is still putting out great music. It can happen, with the right work ethic and attitude.

You can be old and brilliant with something more to say artistically like Dylan or how Leonard Cohen still created, Bowie still had some interesting tunes cause he took into consideration what he wanted to say and where he was at, even if quality did drop.

Or like Neil Young, which Axl is a big fan of, but Guns ain't that. Axl is not that.

Gn'R's source of power was youth and their image and music reflected them best when it reflected their younger selves.

The artistic grace was achieved by Izzy, but not through Guns.

Axl did it artificially, sustaining the band, trying to keep it alive. He did the impossible as far as I'm concerned , delivering a relevant album through a theme of defiance, which was also a Guns theme anyway.

Now, they are old, they're not AC/DC. Axl does Queen and wants to always say something that is at least relevant for him as an artist. Like Bowie.

I don't think a Hard Rock band like Guns was ever in this position before. If anyone can do it given enough time, it's Axl. He waits around with tunes that are more than 15 years old because it's not enough for him that the tunes are good, it needs to be the next step creatively. This was the case until now, I hope it's still is but the China interview did show he still has the right idea. Kinda.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Rovim

[wasted]

44 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You actually want covers on a hypothetical future album? The last time Slash was with Axl we had an entire album of covers, followed by a single of a cover!! The current setlist is flooded with the things.

Covers are fun.

LALD and Heavens Door are my favorite tracks on UYI other than Civil War. If there's a YCBM/RNDTH and Dust N Bones/14 Years. Nov rain/Estranged. Get in the Ring/So Fine. Add a ballad. 

That will do for me. 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, wasted said:

Covers are fun.

LALD and Heavens Door are my favorite tracks on UYI other than Civil War. If there's a YCBM/RNDTH and Dust N Bones/14 Years. Nov rain/Estranged. Get in the Ring/So Fine. Add a ballad. 

That will do for me. 

''The General

Shuffle It All

Atlas Shrugged

A cover of My Way

A cover of Freak on a Leash

By The Sword

Cockroach Soup

...                    ''

[wasted]

22 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

''The General

Shuffle It All

Atlas Shrugged

A cover of My Way

A cover of Freak on a Leash

By The Sword

Cockroach Soup

...                    ''

CD III?

 

Just one track from each guy and couple of covers for a reunion record. If Izzy won't use covers or Fortus material. 

[wasted]

But didn't China Exchange reveal Axl wanted to go back to writing like AFD. Lyrics and melodies first, then Slash takes it further?

[Rovim]

14 minutes ago, wasted said:

But didn't China Exchange reveal Axl wanted to go back to writing like AFD. Lyrics and melodies first, then Slash takes it further?

I think Axl adds, he doesn't leave behind all of it. Never did really. Nothing could prevent it from being just half an album for example of fresh material, and the second half are reworked AAA tunes?

Is that not possible? Axl was talking like the plan is to incorporate Slash, using him for existing material if he wants to. That is how I understood it, and that goes side by side with Axl writing lyrics and melodies first, but how connected is that to Slash?

Is it a way for Axl to make it relevant musically with Slash? if it is, only using new material with Slash on top still doesn't make sense to me when we know how Axl operated in the past with existing material, and how attached he must be to the best tunes he already recorded. Anything Goes was used for Appetite, what if with the talent Axl had at his disposal in the Chinese era, the tunes created are good enough to take the space of half a record?

perhaps Slash can make it enough Guns, or that the themes lend themselves to a type of album this line up can release and it would make sense.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Rovim

[wasted]

19 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think Axl adds, he doesn't leave behind all of it. Never did really. Nothing could prevent it from being just half an album for example of fresh material, and the second half are reworked AAA tunes?

Is that not possible? Axl was talking like the plan is to incorporate Slash, using him for existing material if he wants to. That is how I understood it, and that goes side by side with Axl writing lyrics and melodies first, but how connected is that to Slash?

Is it a way for Axl to make it relevant musically with Slash? if it is, only using new material with Slash on top still doesn't make sense to me when we know how Axl operated in the past with existing material, and how attached he must be to the best tunes he already recorded. Anything Goes was used for Appetite, what if with the talent Axl had at his disposal in the Chinese era, the tunes created are good enough to take the space of half a record?

perhaps Slash can make it enough Guns, or that the themes lend themselves to a type of album this line up can release and it would make sense.

All seems possible. Axl doesn't seem like he wants to sing over Slash solo material. He wants to do his songs. He also must have some epic songs he wants Slash on. 

[Rovim]

24 minutes ago, wasted said:

All seems possible. Axl doesn't seem like he wants to sing over Slash solo material. He wants to do his songs. He also must have some epic songs he wants Slash on. 

And I agree it could be more of a new thing with the ratio of new tunes/old tunes. But regardless of the current situation, Axl is fat, old, and satisfied, I think whatever it's gonna be, still gotta make it worthy, Axl was all about that and suddenly he's not cause Slash and Duff are back and it's lucrative? I doubt that.

Axl has many options to make money. So many, that I don't believe he will use his only artistic avenue just for an excuse to tour and make more money.

So I'm not concerned about what tunes will make it really. I feel like at this point in time, it doesn't matter. Whatever it takes to release another Guns album, but make it count, and I think Axl is still very focused on not letting life get in the way of his art which was always the albums.

Also: how do you fill the Izzy void, if not by using Paul and Josh tunes? if the lyrics still fit of course. Or using Down By The Ocean.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Rovim

[Original]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 1:34 AM, rocknroll41 said:

...he never heard from the Axl camp again.

Axl's "camp".  AKA= mommy and TB. 

[wasted]

23 minutes ago, Rovim said:

And I agree it could be more of a new thing with the ratio of new tunes/old tunes. But regardless of the current situation, Axl is fat, old, and satisfied, I think whatever it's gonna be, still gotta make it worthy, Axl was all about that and suddenly he's not cause Slash and Duff are back and it's lucrative? I doubt that.

Axl has many options to make money. So many, that I don't believe he will use his only artistic avenue just for an excuse to tour and make more money.

So I'm not concerned about what tunes will make it really. I feel like at this point in time, it doesn't matter. Whatever it takes to release another Guns album, but make it count, and I think Axl is still very focused on not letting life get in the way of his art which was always the albums.

Also: how do you fill the Izzy void, if not by using Paul and Josh tunes? if the lyrics still fit of course. Or using Down By The Ocean.

I don't think if they try to do UYI III or AFD 2 it will work anyway. Slash on CD II would probably be an interesting mix. But a track like Ghost with Axl vocals might work, with a ballad like Fall to Pieces might help sell the album to the masses. 

[ludurigan]

12 hours ago, wasted said:

I think if they wanted to they would have lured Izzy back with equal loot? 

Maybe Slash really wants to make his GNR album. Axl/Slash songs, not Izzy/Axl songs played by Slash. There's enough Axl/Slash material on UYI to show it could done. 

I wonder how WOF would differ from GNR if Slash was in control. 

 

yeah, its pretty obvious that if axl, slash and duff wanted to write a new GNR album they would have had izzy with them by now

mick wall has said that there wil be new music

so it seems likely that we will have to do with a Guns n Aliens album, which should likely be an Axl/Slash album basically

(as it is very likely that they will write the most of it)

Duff will definetely help here and there

and its also likely that they wont give much rooom for the 4 aliens to do anythiing

so it is very likely we will get our guns n aliens album sooner than later

and we will have to do without a GNR album

===

the most striking thing about all this is how stupid axl, slash and duff are to not have izzy involved

they still didnt realize after all the crappy songs they been releasing for the last two decades...

 

 

[wasted]

27 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

yeah, its pretty obvious that if axl, slash and duff wanted to write a new GNR album they would have had izzy with them by now

mick wall has said that there wil be new music

so it seems likely that we will have to do with a Guns n Aliens album, which should likely be an Axl/Slash album basically

(as it is very likely that they will write the most of it)

Duff will definetely help here and there

and its also likely that they wont give much rooom for the 4 aliens to do anythiing

so it is very likely we will get our guns n aliens album sooner than later

and we will have to do without a GNR album

===

the most striking thing about all this is how stupid axl, slash and duff are to not have izzy involved

they still didnt realize after all the crappy songs they been releasing for the last two decades...

 

 

Maybe they feel like they have something to prove. The GNFR album from Axl, Slash and Duff. Something they failed at in the late 90s. They want to back to the future. 

[classicrawker]

7 hours ago, downzy said:

To reiterate, I view musicians with respect to their songwriting capabilities to be much like athletes.  They have their prime years of performance, with their talents waning as they get older.  It's why Paul McCartney, Elton John, Billy Joel, or Mick Jagger haven't written an iconic or timeless hit in decades.  The muse or creative spark isn't a constant presence, it eventually leaves all great artists, particularly songwriters.  

There's nothing wrong with wanting Axl and company to be productive when it comes to material.  I just think it's unrealistic to expect these guys who have been doing it for over three decades now to suddenly produce relevant music.  You just don't see that from any other artist so why should we expect it from GNR?

I agree with your premise and in fact if you look at many artists who have any type of longevity  IMHO I think they usually produce their most classic work  in the first 6-10 years they are together........That is not to say they can't and don't still produce  good music hardcore fans enjoy, ChiDem is a good example where hardcore Guns fans love that album but casual fans probably couldn't name a song off of it......But even artists like the Stones, Dylan, Springsteen, U2 etc. are more known for their early hits than later material....

So suppose Guns produced an Illusion type album today does everyone think it would be a huge hit? JMO but I always thought those albums rode the coattails of Appetite and if they had been Guns first album they would not have sold anywhere near what they eventually did as they lacked the hits that made Appetite so huge and still loved today.....You hear the songs from Appetite on the radio today fairly regularly but how often do you hear Illusion songs other than maybe Civil War occasionally.............so following that premise I don't think an Illusion type album would be that big a hit these days.........

Edited November 28, 2016 by classicrawker

[Modano09]

1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

yeah, its pretty obvious that if axl, slash and duff wanted to write a new GNR album they would have had izzy with them by now

mick wall has said that there wil be new music

so it seems likely that we will have to do with a Guns n Aliens album, which should likely be an Axl/Slash album basically

(as it is very likely that they will write the most of it)

Duff will definetely help here and there

and its also likely that they wont give much rooom for the 4 aliens to do anythiing

so it is very likely we will get our guns n aliens album sooner than later

and we will have to do without a GNR album

===

the most striking thing about all this is how stupid axl, slash and duff are to not have izzy involved

they still didnt realize after all the crappy songs they been releasing for the last two decades...

 

 

They tried to have Izzy involved, he wouldn't be there unless the money was what he wanted it to be. And this is just the tour anyway, I'm sure if they're writing and album he might pop in now and then and contribute as his leisure.

[Tom2112]

On 17/06/2016 at 9:48 AM, Rovim said:

Why do superstars need someone to tell them their songs are not good enough? are they not capable of recognizing when it's good enough? isn't that ability is one of the reasons why they became superstars in the first place? or managed to release a good second album. So silly.

I imagine superstars have friends as well. Bob Ezrin types that will tell you how they truly feel and even if you don't have an objective opinion on your shit, it's still possible to come up with a good idea and recognize that it's good.

As described by many artists "you get high on the process of this feels good" but what feels good isn't always good in terms of listenable music. 

A producer is as important to old bands just as much to new bands, they are the outside ears who say good, bad or more if that. Some bands can work fine by themselves others can't and tend to go off the deep end because of the unlimited possibilities.

I think it would have been interesting if Bob Ezrin had finished the record with them. 

[Rovim]

6 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

As described by many artists "you get high on the process of this feels good" but what feels good isn't always good in terms of listenable music. 

A producer is as important to old bands just as much to new bands, they are the outside ears who say good, bad or more if that. Some bands can work fine by themselves others can't and tend to go off the deep end because of the unlimited possibilities.

I think it would have been interesting if Bob Ezrin had finished the record with them. 

Lunacy. Music is a language. You can just say it like you speak your mind with confidence. What feels good is the best indication, more than any opinion. It helps to play it to others, but it's not something an artist should let get in the way of what he's trying to say.

Bob Ezrin was poison. The label was poison. Outside opinions delayed it even more. Fuck Roy Thomas Baker for rerecording the album again.

[Len Cnut]

4 hours ago, Towelie said:

I don't believe that. Certain artists I follow have consistently written outstanding material well past their supposed "prime". I mean, what do people really mean when we talk about an "artists prime"? It's youth primarily, because as a society, we celebrate youth and shy away from acknowledging age. I suppose we associate ageing with deterioration, complacency and a changing of priorities which aren't necessarily conducive to the output of great art. But it's all about the individual. Some artists lose it with age, others carry on just as good as they ever were. David Bowie put out one of his best albums when he was dying of cancer. Neil Young is still putting out great music. It can happen, with the right work ethic and attitude.

Difference is Bowie and Neil Young have a stellar back catalogue that stands as proof that they are capable of putting out consistent top level product, Axl and Co do not enter into that category.  Guns have, what, one bona fide classic album on their discography?  Now count Bowies.  Don't worry, I'll wait

[Rovim]

4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Difference is Bowie and Neil Young have a stellar back catalogue that stands as proof that they are capable of putting out consistent top level product, Axl and Co do not enter into that category.  Guns have, what, one bona fide classic album on their discography?  Now count Bowies.  Don't worry, I'll wait

But don't you have to judge it based on it's genre? as far as Hard Rock goes, all Guns albums do keep a consistent quality. Like the first 4 Metallica albums and The Black album did something different, but still had the tunes to sell it.

Or AC/DC albums. Instead of disposable like Rock or Bust, Black Ice, you get a better quality but driven more by Axl's musical interests.

[DieselDaisy]

14 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Lunacy. Music is a language. You can just say it like you speak your mind with confidence. What feels good is the best indication, more than any opinion. It helps to play it to others, but it's not something an artist should let get in the way of what he's trying to say.

Bob Ezrin was poison. The label was poison. Outside opinions delayed it even more. Fuck Roy Thomas Baker for rerecording the album again.

Ezrin (The Wall, Alice Cooper) and Roy Thomas Baker (Queen) are two highly credible producers.

[Len Cnut]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

But don't you have to judge it based on it's genre? as far as Hard Rock goes, all Guns albums do keep a consistent quality.

Definitely but lots of bands do that, that doesn't bear comparison to a Bowie...especially if you have a 20 year break in between, thats the point, you are what you prove yourself to be, not this idea in the heads of fans about where you talent levels may or may not be.  Quite frankly even after Illusions at their peak it was still kind of an up in the air thing, very much an up in the air thing in fact, whether GnR were the calibre of a Stones or a Bowie, the comparison just doesn't hold up, artistically speaking they have achieved nowhere near them boys.  Or even Neil Young, I mean I'm not his biggest fans, I couldn't talk you through his catalogue but i know enough about him and his position in the pantheon to know that he is solid as fuck at what he does and has been for a great long while.

[Rovim]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Ezrin (The Wall, Alice Cooper) and Roy Thomas Baker (Queen) are two highly credible producers.

But they were both cunts. They've disrupted the natural process of recording Chinese. Ezrin probably damaged Axl's confidence, RTB wasted time with no good reason, and the label said it wasn't good enough multiple times.

I don't think that helped at all. The situation was already complicated and Axl is insecure enough as it is. So it's not relevant what Ezrin and RTB did outside of fuckin' with Chinese.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Rovim said:

But they were both cunts. They've disrupted the natural process of recording Chinese. Ezrin probably damaged Axl's confidence, RTB wasted time with no good reason, and the label said it wasn't good enough multiple times.

I don't think that helped at all. The situation was already complicated and Axl is insecure enough as it is. So it's not relevant what Ezrin and RTB did outside of fuckin' with Chinese.

There was a ''natural process of recording Chinese''?

You have two of the most highly rated producers, Night at The Opera, The Wall; you have all of these musicians, Bucket, Finck, who upped and left because they were sick: have you ever thought that maybe the fault resided in W. Axl Rose.

[Rovim]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

have you ever thought that maybe the fault resided in W. Axl Rose.

Absolutely not. Don't be silly. I resent the question.

[Apollo]

8 hours ago, jekylhyde said:

They don't need to release a great album, they just need to release a good album.

Home run!

And isn't that what people are saying? I haven't seen anybody claim that they thought GnR would beat or compete with appetite level success. 

Nobody is expecting an album with anther Jungle, SCOM and November Rain. 

But a album with lower tier songs like Yesterday's, Patience, Nightrain, Perfect Crime, Rocketqueen, Better, Catcher, SOD and Twat?

Yes please. 

I doubt the boys are trying to make the best rock album of all time. They should just be trying to make a great rock album.

*******

Did somebody say that if Illusions would have came out first that they wouldn't have been as successful as they were. Or if they came today it wouldn't do much?

Imo an album with You Could Be Mine, November Rain, Don't Cry, Estranged, Civil War, Yesterday's and the two two covers would have been huge. In 1987 or in 2017. 

Nov Rain has like 500,000,000 views on YouTube and is the highest viewed video by a "band."

[Rovim]

Nightrain lower tier? Patience? Catcher and There Was A Time? no way.

2 classic Izzy tunes that they probably have no chance, no chance of writing without him (or with him now) and the 2 most epic Chinese tracks. Better and Street Of Dreams are also AAA material. Big guns.

It's more about what Axl thinks it should be. Good, or great? a rehash, or something that is reflective of him as an artist? it doesn't matter that you don't care, if Axl does, then you're not gonna get this shit album you're craving to get now, but maybe you'll get a great one in 5 or 6 or 8 years from now.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Rovim