Guitar World: SLASH & IZZY STRADLIN

[Free Bird]

I wouldn't go so far to say Izzy's the most untalented guy of the AFD lineup, and I don't know if he's the most important member as some hardcore fans pretend to know.

All I know is every single one of them brought something to the table, their own specific style and talent. So probably, at least in regard of AFD, the core 5 may be equal important. 

Steve and the groove

Duff the punk, his fucking daimn bass lines

Axl's explosivity, his melodys and vocals 

Izzy's stonesy vibe and bluesy rawness, his ability to find the right cord progressions

Slash's riffs, his solos, the hard rock, the blues.

Every single part of it was important for AFD. I'm not the one pointing out which parts were more important than the others.

Fact is, the less you have of these guys, the more components are missing. 

For me personally... I like some Duff stuff, a lot of Slash's, some Izzy and some Axl stuff. They're what they are and you can clearly here in their solo stuff what everybody's strength is and which ability they're missing. 

I'm 100% convinced that Axl, Slash and Duff would write a hell of an album together.

Am I wishing Izzy and Steven would be part of it? Of course I do, like every sane person would. But I'll take what I can get and three out of five ain't that bad after all these years.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Free Bird

[ksks12]

1 hour ago, maynard said:

Izzy wrote half of the GNR catalogue? And they were all great genius work since the beginning? They were 100% done and all Slash had to do was shred over them? 100% Izzy creations? Cool, now show me the classic Izzy solo songs all the world loves since he's so great by himself.

Yes he wrote half of GNR catalogue. Do you have any problem with that? If you do please check the facts regarding the band of wich forum you are embarrassing yourself on.

of all the idiots....

Edited October 11, 2016 by ksks12

[maynard]

4 minutes ago, ksks12 said:

Yes he wrote half of GNR catalogue. Do you have any problem with that? If you do please check the facts regarding the band of wich forum you are embarrassing yourself.

of all the idiots....

So I'm pretty sure he has tons of awesome solo songs since he was basically half of GNR. Can you give me a top 10 Izzy greatest songs? 

Izzy was so generous, he gave credit to a lot of people, even though half of this list is all by himself, no input from the others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Guns_N%27_Roses

[Swedish]

47 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

I wouldn't go so far to say Izzy's the most untalented guy of the AFD lineup, and I don't know if he's the most important member as some hardcore fans pretend to know.

All I know is every single one of them brought something to the table, their own specific style and talent. So probably, at least in regard of AFD, the core 5 may be equal important. 

Steve and the groove

Duff the punk, his fucking daimn bass lines

Axl's explosivity, his melodys and vocals 

Izzy's stonesy vibe and bluesy rawness, his ability to find the right cord progressions

Slash's riffs, his solos, the hard rock, the blues.

Every single part of it was important for AFD. I'm not the one pointing out which parts were more important than the others.

Fact is, the less you have of these guys, the more components are missing. 

For me personally... I like some Duff stuff, a lot of Slash's, some Izzy and some Axl stuff. They're what they are and you can clearly here in their solo stuff what everybody's strength is and which ability they're missing. 

I'm 100% convinced that Axl, Slash and Duff would write a hell of an album together.

Am I wishing Izzy and Steven would be part of it? Of course I do, like every sane person would. But I'll take what I can get and three out of five ain't that bad after all these years.

Oh my god, this! So much this!

I thought nobody but me over here felt this way!

[ksks12]

23 minutes ago, maynard said:

So I'm pretty sure he has tons of awesome solo songs since he was basically half of GNR. Can you give me a top 10 Izzy greatest songs? 

Izzy was so generous, he gave credit to a lot of people, even though half of this list is all by himself, no input from the others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Guns_N%27_Roses

Oh man, again, you really are embarrassing yourself.

yes he wrote cca half of the songs, if not more. Like he wrote ycbm but axl wrote the bridge, so axl got credited also. This is an example of how things were regarding songs written or co-written by Izzy.

you have every right to have your opinion, but the way you put Izzy and his contributions down you really should find another band. Because you ain't know a thing about this one. At least it seems that way.

 

like Duff put it in his book: it was Izzy's band.

but hey you were there so you must know better, lol

Edited October 11, 2016 by ksks12

[Free Bird]

But again... Izzy wrote songs "his" way.

The way he is still writing his songs.

Without all the contributions to his songs, especially the contributions of Axl and Slash, his songs would be entirely different. As you can here in his solo material. 

By the way, Izzy said so himself.

But credit where credits due. I couldn't say Izzy was less important to the band than others. Quite the opposite. He came up with a lot of main ideas and fixed ideas from the rest.

It's just wrong to say he wrote half of their catalog on his own.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Free Bird

[maynard]

45 minutes ago, ksks12 said:

but hey you were there so you must know better, lol

You're the one saying Izzy wrote this, somebody else wrote that, like you were there.

AFD is clearly a collaboration between them. Izzy didn't write those songs alone and even if he did they probably sound 100% better after the other guys' input.

Izzy's solo songs show he has no intention or ability to do anything beside basic rock progressions with simple structures, simple solos, vocal lines, very basic stuff, completely different from the GNR dynamic, amazing solo sections, amazing vocals, etc. I hear similar songs from the local bands in the place where I live.

If you like this kind of music, fine. I think musicians who do the same thing their whole life are very limited and in some cases, untalented.

The more I think about it, the more I realize Izzy is not really THAT good. Slash and Duff had VR which was very good. Axl has 2 or 3 solo songs that show at least ambition. Adler still plays the drums like a pro. Izzy writes the same stuff over and over again and looks clueless on stage. So I think he's the one with the biggest decline since AFD. From Nightrain and YCMB to "Take it Easy" or whatever, it's a huge quality drop.

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by maynard

[Babooshka]

Duff is really underrated imo. You can't go entirely by credits, and he has some good solo songs.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Babooshka

[BorderlineCrazy]

Izzy looks clueless on stage? Well, of course! He joins """""Guns N' Roses""""" to be the 4th guitar player and has to play his own songs the WRONG way, is it supposed to look natural?

I don't see Izzy looking clueless in any of these videos. 

 

 

 

 

 

[-W.A.R-]

13 hours ago, Free Bird said:

All I know is every single one of them brought something to the table, their own specific style and talent. So probably, at least in regard of AFD, the core 5 may be equal important. 

finally somebody understands GNR. we could sit here forever arguing whose contributions were more important, but Guns did not have a weak link. each member is talented and brought a style that made GNR unique and one of the more diverse bands ive ever heard. 

GNR could make any type of record and it would be amazing. that had allot to do with the melting pot of styles.

Edited October 12, 2016 by -W.A.R-

[Darkenchantress]

39 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Izzy looks clueless on stage? Well, of course! He joins """""Guns N' Roses""""" to be the 4th guitar player and has to play his own songs the WRONG way, is it supposed to look natural?

I don't see Izzy looking clueless in any of these videos. 

 

And to think that this could have been Velvet Revolver, sigh... Also, Izzy with a V! Awesome! 

[Good, Fuck'n, Night.]

1 hour ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Izzy looks clueless on stage? Well, of course! He joins """""Guns N' Roses""""" to be the 4th guitar player and has to play his own songs the WRONG way, is it supposed to look natural?

I don't see Izzy looking clueless in any of these videos. 

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

And to think that this could have been Velvet Revolver, sigh... Also, Izzy with a V! Awesome! 

 

There are some absolute tools on this page on the wind up. 

Regardless of how Izzy looks on stage for guest spots, admittedly some performances are better than others, If you are looking to these guest performances as a indication of the limit Izzys chops & performance ability you really do have your head stuck firmly up your arse. 

Given the opportunity & time to rehearse & gel with the band over a reasonable period of time & Izzy would kill it. 

The perfect illustration of that is the early GnR shows in April sounded rusty as, GnR sounded like a totally different beast two months later in Detroit they were tight as fuck. 

 

[marlingrl03]

8 hours ago, youngswedishvinyl said:

Oh my god, this! So much this!

I thought nobody but me over here felt this way!

I know....right? I feel exactly the same. Free Bird hit the nail on the head and was damn right, 3 out of 5 in my book ain't bad at all!!!! Not at all.

[RONIN]

On 10/10/2016 at 8:41 AM, maynard said:

 

Oh dear god. Maynard...dude....no.... I agree with you on most things which makes this post all the more painful.

Quote

What I've seen from Izzy jamming with Axl's solo band (also called GNR for money reasons) is that unfortunately, he's completely clueless of what to do on a stage and I'm afraid his guitar can not be plugged in or audible or he will mess things up badly. With Izzy on board, they would've needed three guitar players, Fortus would still be there.

This is a harsh assessment and unfair. You're also drinking the Axl kool-aid re: Izzy's live playing. Give the dude the benefit of the doubt. He's playing with a veritable circus on stage with keyboard/bongo players, 2 lame ass guitarists and a shredder (bumble) -- even on good days that band had technical issues with their sound setup. Izzy is a stripped down, low key simple dude -- nu guns was a bad fit for his style to begin with. More importantly, he had zero time to really prep with this band since his appearances were random affairs so ofcourse he isn't going to sound tight with them. I'm not even entirely convinced that his live playing was so bad that the band had to turn his amps down, that sounds to me like a load of Axl bullshit. And ofcourse he did the gigs for money! He figured he'll charge nu-guns to the hilt for a guest spot since they're playing all his songs anyway night after night.

Quote

Izzy refused to play with real GNR in the HoF just to join Axl's solo project weeks later for money. His solo albums are mediocre. Uninspired shitty Stones rip-offs. It's amazing how bad Izzy needed the AFD guys to help him to achieve great things. By himself the guy is awful, probably the most untalented member of the AFD crew (Adler can still play damn well live).

Not necessarily true. The word is, Izzy held out till the 11th hour to meet with Axl to try to convince him to show up at the HOF. Axl kept him waiting over 2 hrs and didn't show (as usual) -- Izzy said fuck it and disappeared back into the ether. I think the guy was really bummed he couldn't get Axl on board. As Marc Canter has said many times, Izzy was up for a reunion 10 years ago which is why he stayed on good terms with everyone.

I don't care for his solo albums either -- but then again, I don't care for any of the solo albums of the others. He certainly is a way better songwriter than Duff and Slash -- any neutral person would attest to that. What you consider "shitty stones rip-offs" formed the foundation of GnR's songs. 

Quote

The more I think about it the more I see that Izzy was a lucky guy. He hated Slash's shredding but it was Slash's iconic riffs that took GNR to the next level. He contributed to some of the best GNR songs but a quick listen to his solo albums shows that he simply can't do a single good song on his own. He's way overrated around here and I doubt people really like his solo stuff.

Way off base here but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Like I said, I don't care much for Izzy's solo stuff, but it's so obvious to me how important he was to the GnR chemistry. Duff and Slash have said numerous times how they couldn't write without Izzy in the band -- it's one of the major reasons the band fell apart. Again, their words, not mine.

And honestly -- your criticism applies to Duff, Slash and Axl as well. What the fuck have they done outside of GnR that is worth mentioning? Slash and Duff churned out a bunch of generic shit post-GnR. Velvet Revolver sucked. And Axl? He had the biggest recording budget in history and some of the greatest musicians on the planet at his disposal and the best he could do was Chinese Democracy. Give that budget to Izzy and if he blows it - then you have a case to be made. 

Quote

 

Now Fortus - hired session musician. Not even fair to compare. He's nothing, a nobody to GNR's legacy.

If I had to choose, Izzy would be my choice for the rhythm guitar spot, of course. It just baffles me how bad his songwriting is by himself. It's clear he needed Axl, Slash and Duff much more than they needed him. 

 

Again -- this criticism applies to everyone. They all suck without each other. Who is more valuable -- a songwriter or a guitarist? As we can see from Slash's solo work, the dude can't write for shit and it shows in his work. He loves his cock rock and he churns it out relentlessly -- if that's your thing, I get it. It's certainly no better or worse than Izzy's stones-y solo output. And he's a waaay better writer than Slash and Duff. I would say he's a more consistent writer than Axl as well. You think Izzy would write treacly crap like This I Love? He's the guy who gave us "The Perils of Rock n' Roll Decadence". Come on Maynard, snap out of it...this is Izzy Stradlin' we're talking about here -- the cool as shit guitarist who played in the shadows behind Axl and Slash.

We're in agreement on one thing atleast - Fortus is truly useless.

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by RONIN

[RONIN]

8 hours ago, Babooshka said:

Duff is really underrated imo. You can't go entirely by credits, and he has some good solo songs.

Agreed - he's very underrated. His playing is integral to the sound of GnR and he's a huge presence live. None of these guys can be taken out of the band imho. I used to think Adler was the only element that could be replaced but I'm starting to understand why people think he is so fundamental to the sound of GnR. Adler's groove with Duff is amazing. Even his drumming on Civil War has so much energy compared to the plodding style of Sorum (who was amazing in Velvet Revolver).

Edited October 12, 2016 by RONIN

[BorderlineCrazy]

3 hours ago, Darkenchantress said:

And to think that this could have been Velvet Revolver, sigh... Also, Izzy with a V! Awesome! 

Well, I love Izzy but love (and miss) Scott too, so I'm happy I got to see him making music with Slash and Duff. Seeing Slash and Scott together live was an unbelievable experience that I wouldn't trade for anything.

That said, if we never get the original GNR back, I'd love to see a band made of Slash, Izzy, Duff & Steven. No keyboards, no drama, just Rock N' Roll! 

[Magnus Cavalerra]

Why it's seems like everyone hates keyboard tho? I think Izzy himself didn't hate it.
Half of Juju Hounds song on the debut albums has keyboard played on them, there's a dude playing keys on Baby Rann videos, even his latest diss track FP Money has keys too.

Slash and Duff didn't hate it too, there's keys here and there on some VR song. Slash has Dizzy and Teddy Zig Zag guesting a lot of Snakepit songs, Dizzy even played on 2 of their best song, Beggars and Hangers On/Back and Forth Again. Duff also has keyboardist on Loaded and Walking Papers.

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Oh dear god. Maynard...dude....no.... I agree with you on most things which makes this post all the more painful.

This is a harsh assessment and unfair. You're also drinking the Axl kool-aid re: Izzy's live playing. Give the dude the benefit of the doubt. He's playing with a veritable circus on stage with keyboard/bongo players, 2 lame ass guitarists and a shredder (bumble) -- even on good days that band had technical issues with their sound setup. Izzy is a stripped down, low key simple dude -- nu guns was a bad fit for his style to begin with. More importantly, he had zero time to really prep with this band since his appearances were random affairs so ofcourse he isn't going to sound tight with them. I'm not even entirely convinced that his live playing was so bad that the band had to turn his amps down, that sounds to me like a load of Axl bullshit. And ofcourse he did the gigs for money! He figured he'll charge nu-guns to the hilt for a guest spot since they're playing all his songs anyway night after night.

Not necessarily true. The word is, Izzy held out till the 11th hour to meet with Axl to try to convince him to show up at the HOF. Axl kept him waiting over 2 hrs and didn't show (as usual) -- Izzy said fuck it and disappeared back into the ether. I think the guy was really bummed he couldn't get Axl on board. As Marc Canter has said many times, Izzy was up for a reunion 10 years ago which is why he stayed on good terms with everyone.

I don't care for his solo albums either -- but then again, I don't care for any of the solo albums of the others. He certainly is a way better songwriter than Duff and Slash -- any neutral person would attest to that. What you consider "shitty stones rip-offs" formed the foundation of GnR's songs. 

Way off base here but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Like I said, I don't care much for Izzy's solo stuff, but it's so obvious to me how important he was to the GnR chemistry. Duff and Slash have said numerous times how they couldn't write without Izzy in the band -- it's one of the major reasons the band fell apart. Again, their words, not mine.

And honestly -- your criticism applies to Duff, Slash and Axl as well. What the fuck have they done outside of GnR that is worth mentioning? Slash and Duff churned out a bunch of generic shit post-GnR. Velvet Revolver sucked. And Axl? He had the biggest recording budget in history and some of the greatest musicians on the planet at his disposal and the best he could do was Chinese Democracy. Give that budget to Izzy and if he blows it - then you have a case to be made. 

Again -- this criticism applies to everyone. They all suck without each other. Who is more valuable -- a songwriter or a guitarist? As we can see from Slash's solo work, the dude can't write for shit and it shows in his work. He loves his cock rock and he churns it out relentlessly -- if that's your thing, I get it. It's certainly no better or worse than Izzy's stones-y solo output. And he's a waaay better writer than Slash and Duff. I would say he's a more consistent writer than Axl as well. You think Izzy would write treacly crap like This I Love? He's the guy who gave us "The Perils of Rock n' Roll Decadence". Come on Maynard, snap out of it...this is Izzy Stradlin' we're talking about here -- the cool as shit guitarist who played in the shadows behind Axl and Slash.

We're in agreement on one thing atleast - Fortus is truly useless.

 

 

 

There's a lot I agree with you in your post but IMO you've made the self mistake as many here. In my opinion at least.

You said Duff and Slash are bad writers and you can see that in their solo work. And I say that's not correct.

We have to differ here some things like what do you consider songwriting? Are cord progressions and lyrics songwriting? Aren't riffs and solos songwriting? They are important elements in a rock song.

To me there different ways to write a song and while Slash is awesome (and is still awesome) in writing riffs and solos, Izzy's chops are to fix the song with the right progression.

I say both is songwriting and both is important.

AFD proofs that.

Besides VR was a great band

 

[GNRfan2008]

2 hours ago, RONIN said:

Agreed - he's very underrated. His playing is integral to the sound of GnR and he's a huge presence live. None of these guys can be taken out of the band imho. I used to think Adler was the only element that could be replaced but I'm starting to understand why people think he is so fundamental to the sound of GnR. Adler's groove with Duff is amazing. Even his drumming on Civil War has so much energy compared to the plodding style of Sorum (who was amazing in Velvet Revolver).

 

But hell, the current tour is giving me more appreciation for Sorum. Always viewed him as just a replacement but I would take him over Frank any day of the week. Adler of course is the only real GN'R drummer. As Sorum once said, "He's a key part of the GN'R sound." All 5 of the Appetite guys were magic together, plain and simple. 

[Darkenchantress]

4 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Well, I love Izzy but love (and miss) Scott too, so I'm happy I got to see him making music with Slash and Duff. Seeing Slash and Scott together live was an unbelievable experience that I wouldn't trade for anything.

That said, if we never get the original GNR back, I'd love to see a band made of Slash, Izzy, Duff & Steven. No keyboards, no drama, just Rock N' Roll! 

I wasn't very fond of Scott, nothing personal, but I liked VR. Only I really prefer bands with a singer playing guitar/bass/whatever, Guns n' roses being the exception, of course, cause Axl was the best frontman ever when he wasn't fucking everything up  Also, I love Izzy's voice, it's so rock n' roll!

[DR DOOM]

21 hours ago, shotsfired cro said:

uhm. no!

 

All of Slash solo stuff from 5o clock till WOF was great, maybe WOF not so much, but Snakepits, Slash and VR were great.

Loaded was decent.

Gilby stuff also very decent.

N Outsiders fantastic. IMO

Do you have brain damage by any chance?

Just kidding, agree to disagree.

I think Izzy's stuff is far and away the closest to classic GNR.

[Słash]

Its really cool to see Izzy playing live, I hope Matt calls him up for some KOC shows, lets spam Matt's twitter to invite Izzy lol 

[Nikki_Sixx]

21 hours ago, maynard said:

Izzy wrote half of the GNR catalogue? And they were all great genius work since the beginning? They were 100% done and all Slash had to do was shred over them? 100% Izzy creations? Cool, now show me the classic Izzy solo songs all the world loves since he's so great by himself.

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about 

 

For argument's sake, these are all classic 100% genius Izzy creations  (and before you ask, no he didn't write the lyrics, mister smartie pants) which Slash had nothing to do with except solos :

 

Don't Cry  [US #10]

You Could Be Mine [US #29]

14 Years

You Ain't The First

Think About You

Double Talkin' Jive

Pretty Tied Up

Patience [US #4]

Used To Love Her

Shadow Of Your Love

 

Other GNR songs Slash had nothing to do with but Izzy had a firm hand in the writing of :

 

Move To The City

Reckless Life

Anything Goes

Right Next Door To Hell

Bad Obsession

 

Other GNR songs Izzy cowrote :

 

All of AFD [incl. US #7, #1, #5]

Dust N' Bones

Perfect Crime

Bad Apples

One In A Million

Ain't Going Down

 

I am anxiously awaiting your list of Slash GNR classics that he wrote on his own ! 

[KURT19]

Without Izzy there is no 'Appetite for Destruction' album. 

Without 'Appetite for Destruction' there are no 'Use your Illusion' albums.

Without Izzy there is NO FAME and NO FORTUNE.

Without Izzy there is no forum in 2016 to banter and argue on.

There is NO WAY that a different combination of guys could have achieved anything remotely close to the WORLD DOMINATION that GnFnR rocked.

Fucking hell.

 

[maynard]

I agree Izzy was important and great at what he did. Just saying his solo carreer shows he's limited, he needed the other guys to improve his basic C-D-G rock and two notes riffing.

IMO, VR was a great band. They wrote killer songs, with killes melodies, solos, hooks, etc. Slash and Duff proved they were still able to write great stuff without Axl and Izzy.

Chinese Democracy was awful but Better and OMG are songs I truly enjoy. They are at the very least, creative.

ADLER songs are 80s hard rock and Adler plays his drums very well live to this day.

Izzy's songs are amaeteur-ish and uninspired. Like I said before, it's the kind of music I listen from my local bands here. Limited vocals, silly lyrics, same structures over and over and over again. What I've seen from Izzy as a live musician was a guy a little lost holding a guitar.

Together they were all awesome. By themselves, Izzy is on the bottom of my list. Very uninteresting and amateur-ish songwriting. If you enjoy this kind of stuff, I can send you the soundcloud of two or three teenager bands from my area that do basically the same stuff. Vocals are a little better tho.