GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Georgina Arriaga]

6 minutes ago, Kris_1989 said:

Can we please drop this subject? I don't have the patience to listen to one more WOMAN put down women for believing in equal rights.

This 100%. I'm a chemical engineer with a Master in Textiles, the person who had the job that I have now earned more wage than me, I didn't know until recently, I ask why and still waiting for an answer, I dont want to pressure the issue for fear of losing my job (which I love)....I'm sorry for vent

[alfierose]

20 minutes ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Not starting an arguement

Good luck with that 

 

23 minutes ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Women can be sexist and misogynistic to men

It's called misandry.

 

24 minutes ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Also, why are women fighting for womens rights? They have rights, they are probably the most privelleged in america england than in any country so for them to fight for rights in those countries are silly.

Women in western countries do have privilege compared to many but it's naive in the extreme to think that it's 'done' or that it can not be taken away in a heartbeat (see Trump/Pence and the arguments against the UK's Gender Identity Bill).

 

27 minutes ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Why do women get paid 0.78p to the £1? Because women generally take off more time than men for a baby, holidays which is why men work harder there for get paid more. Sorry ladies but its true. 

This is not why men get paid more. Yes women bear the brunt of child rearing (often without much support) but in general careers that are thought of as female orientated are valued less in financial terms. Even in careers where there should be more parity between the sexes there often isn't because men will network with, promote and value other men more. See the current BBC pay gap as a typical example. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40696402

[Mary Cochrane]

Wow looks like i have triggered all you feminists that are offendes by my post. You have to understand-what more rights do you women want exactly? You can work, vote, do what ever you want and work in male orientated jobs. And they can protest about this shit swinging their tits around oh but god forbid and right wing does so and the police will arrest them and make them stop. Althought they wouldnt protest because they are not IGNORANT about whats going and the fact not all men are rapists, sexist or misogynistic. 

Equal rights? You say that while putting men down, shitting on them, focusing on men. You want equal rights yet all you do is focus on womens than mens. Its ok to spew your opinion but dont be offended when a right wing does so. Feminists-blue hair, shit load of piercings, privelleged, got every right possible yet still protest for more. Its not right its greedy. And ignorant. 

[Zoot]

12 minutes ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Wow looks like i have triggered all you feminists that are offendes by my post. You have to understand-what more rights do you women want exactly? You can work, vote, do what ever you want and work in male orientated jobs. And they can protest about this shit swinging their tits around oh but god forbid and right wing does so and the police will arrest them and make them stop. Althought they wouldnt protest because they are not IGNORANT about whats going and the fact not all men are rapists, sexist or misogynistic. 

Equal rights? You say that while putting men down, shitting on them, focusing on men. You want equal rights yet all you do is focus on womens than mens. Its ok to spew your opinion but dont be offended when a right wing does so. Feminists-blue hair, shit load of piercings, privelleged, got every right possible yet still protest for more. Its not right its greedy. And ignorant. 

In case you were unaware, here is the definition of feminism: political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.

And in case you need the definition of equality here is that too: the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities.

I don't put down men or shit on them, ever. I treat them as equals.

[Inbox]

1 hour ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Not starting an arguement, but im not a feminist. Women can be sexist and misogynistic to men aswell its not all one sided. Women say they dont want men to say sexual things about them yet these celebs sexualise themselves. And women say sexual things about men aswell. So no. You cant just be sexist to women and NOT men. Also, why are women fighting for womens rights? They have rights, they are probably the most privelleged in america england than in any country so for them to fight for rights in those countries are silly.

Why do women get paid 0.78p to the £1? Because women generally take off more time than men for a baby, holidays which is why men work harder there for get paid more. Sorry ladies but its true. 

Coming from a right wing non feminist non liberal woman. Just my opinion. About Axl, i dont think its right to keep shitting all over him with the whole slash thing people defended him, im sure if it was Axl people would just say "oh there the 90s Axl coming through." 

I salute to you! 🍷

[Mary Cochrane]

7 minutes ago, Kris_1989 said:

In case you were unaware, here is the definition of feminism: political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.

And in case you need the definition of equality here is that too: the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities.

I don't put down men or shit on them, ever. I treat them as equals.

Ok. And what rights do you want exactly? Why are you a feminist? 

Just now, Inbox said:

I salute to you! 🍷

Thank You!!!  💖 finally someone who agrees with me

[Inbox]

1 minute ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Ok. And what rights do you want exactly? Why are you a feminist? 

Thank You!!!  💖 finally someone who agrees with me

Oh you BET I do! 😎💖

[alfierose]

19 minutes ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Wow looks like i have triggered all you feminists that are offendes by my post. You have to understand-what more rights do you women want exactly? You can work, vote, do what ever you want and work in male orientated jobs. And they can protest about this shit swinging their tits around oh but god forbid and right wing does so and the police will arrest them and make them stop. Althought they wouldnt protest because they are not IGNORANT about whats going and the fact not all men are rapists, sexist or misogynistic. 

Equal rights? You say that while putting men down, shitting on them, focusing on men. You want equal rights yet all you do is focus on womens than mens. Its ok to spew your opinion but dont be offended when a right wing does so. Feminists-blue hair, shit load of piercings, privelleged, got every right possible yet still protest for more. Its not right its greedy. And ignorant. 

You appear not to be interested in addressing any of the actual points brought up in the replies so I have to question whether this is the right thread for you. You also sound very male (regardless of whether you are or not) so maybe you would be more at home posting on Reddit about your thoughts on feminism.

I would like to draw a line under the discussion of this now because it's clearly going to turn into a massive derail, which perhaps was your intention.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

Are we being trolled?

[Zoot]

Just now, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Are we being trolled?

Either that or we've time warped to the 1920s.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

Annnyyyyway...(swiftly changing the topic)  did people see the gif made of Axl noticing Slash's broken guitar string in the Miami thread?  Not for this tour, it was from 91 footage from a German news report.  Weird, I know!  But it's a cool little moment where Axl notices the broken string and Slash laughs about it.

[Mary Cochrane]

Hold on hold on i assure im not a male. Im a female teenager, im 17 years old with PCOS. Meaning i have more testosterone than estrogen which would explain me being manly and probably havig this opinion. Nothing i can do to help that, no your not being trolled if i could post a photo of myself i would!!! Seriously!! i actually like a lot of you sure we dont agree politically but that doesnt mean because im posting my opinion means your being trolled!! Cant believe you would think a women with a different opinion to you means its fake. I have commented here before. end of. 😊 

[Frey]

7 hours ago, Natalia92 said:

Vast majority of insults are always directed to Beta , if you look at the other sections of the forum or other forums you 'll see what I;m talking about.  As for people defending the other girls I don't know, maybe they did in the past but it was not long ago that I saw someone uploading that video of arrogant Slash calling Steph useless.  Misogyny. Many people condemn it in words but they lack the maturity to fully understand it so they reproduce it. Anyway I'm not gonna argue anymore here with anyone ("whaaat you just called Slash arrogant?") cause it leads us to nowhere

And no, I don't even believe that they are the most appropriate people to manage a band of this calimber.

Look if you think people are misogynist towards Beta, fine. But the point is, you are barking up the wrong tree here. This thread is probably the single most feminist place in the entire GNR fandom. With the exception of two or three people, everyone here knows what they're talking about usually. And I don't see what someone uploading a video of Slash talking about Seymour as part of a joke has to do with misogyny either. Everyone here is aware that Slash and the other guys used to be awful assholes in that regard (and still are to some extent).

And even apart from that, as far as I know, feminism doesn't mean "Don't say anything bad about any woman ever." If Slash doesn't like Seymour, so what? I don't like her either, but it's not because she's a woman, it's because she strikes me as an unpleasant human being.

And I wasn't talking about their managerial qualifications, because it's not even up for debate that they're not qualified, I was talking about their personal relationship to Axl which we know enough about to at least be suspicious.

 

1 hour ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Not starting an arguement, but im not a feminist. Women can be sexist and misogynistic to men aswell its not all one sided. Women say they dont want men to say sexual things about them yet these celebs sexualise themselves. And women say sexual things about men aswell. So no. You cant just be sexist to women and NOT men. Also, why are women fighting for womens rights? They have rights, they are probably the most privelleged in america england than in any country so for them to fight for rights in those countries are silly.

Why do women get paid 0.78p to the £1? Because women generally take off more time than men for a baby, holidays which is why men work harder there for get paid more. Sorry ladies but its true. 

Coming from a right wing non feminist non liberal woman. Just my opinion. About Axl, i dont think its right to keep shitting all over him with the whole slash thing people defended him, im sure if it was Axl people would just say "oh there the 90s Axl coming through." 

You have a very warped understanding of what feminism means. The one old fat guys in positions of power usually have. Even I know the counter arguments to all of your claims. Have some love for yourself and stop believing (and parotting) what some old assholes want you to believe.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Frey

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Not starting an arguement, but im not a feminist. Women can be sexist and misogynistic to men aswell its not all one sided. Women say they dont want men to say sexual things about them yet these celebs sexualise themselves. And women say sexual things about men aswell. So no. You cant just be sexist to women and NOT men. Also, why are women fighting for womens rights? They have rights, they are probably the most privelleged in america england than in any country so for them to fight for rights in those countries are silly.

Why do women get paid 0.78p to the £1? Because women generally take off more time than men for a baby, holidays which is why men work harder there for get paid more. Sorry ladies but its true.

This is all so VOMITIVE

Women fight for women's rights because who else would? Feminism is a movement all around the world. The advances made in some countries really help the rest of the countries who do not have priviledges, to start thinking about it. The fact that there are women with more rights in the UK, USA, some European countries is a great thing for us in Latinamerica or Africa, Middle East and wherever else there are still women struggling for having their rights broken or taken away.

Your right wing BS has always been looking to oppress people in general and women in particular because everything's a fucking SIN to you: sex, abortion, homosexuality, pregnancy outside marriage, anything that is not following the norm of a bunch of hypocrites who love to hate just because they don't have the balls to break rules or to be different.

I am sick of mysoginist and haters like you who only do damage to the human kind with your oppressive visions and ideas of how people how to live their fucking lives. Leave us alone!

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by killuridols

[Mary Cochrane]

5 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Annnyyyyway...(swiftly changing the topic)  did people see the gif made of Axl noticing Slash's broken guitar string in the Miami thread?  Not for this tour, it was from 91 footage from a German news report.  Weird, I know!  But it's a cool little moment where Axl notices the broken string and Slash laughs about it.

Your right, lets change topics its honestly just an opinion-didnt reaalise so many of you was feminist types. Hey i agree with the old feminists (sufragettes) saying that women should work and vote totally agree! ...anyway seening as i dont exactly want to be blocked from this because i actually like reading all the gossip and juicy content and it would be silly if i was ejected because of a controversial political opinion. But! I do apologise if i have offended any of you which i believe i have. But anyway.....

[Georgina Arriaga]

11 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Annnyyyyway...(swiftly changing the topic)  did people see the gif made of Axl noticing Slash's broken guitar string in the Miami thread?  Not for this tour, it was from 91 footage from a German news report.  Weird, I know!  But it's a cool little moment where Axl notices the broken string and Slash laughs about it.

I just here sit in front of my computer having lunch and still in a numb of happiness for that concert in Miami....really, really great...now I just read the rest of concert dates and wait for AXL/DC to come down to Latin America (I hope Asia don't read me...jeje)

About Beta...I don't like her, in my opinion she enabled and enhanced the negative vibe that Axl's feels for Slash during 20 years...and that is unforgivable (Just look how great are now...what a fucking waste of time)

[Alja]

Honestly, this makes me question, why, if you call particular person names (yes, you can swear creatively), it`s misogyny or xenophobia or classism or whatever. If I call someone names, it does not mean I apply it on all people of particular gender, nation, occupation or whatever. 

Now, @killuridols, take few deep breaths: I know you are full of information about misogyny and patriarchal abuse, but what you write there is exact the thing which makes people make fun of degrees in social or gender studies or so (and people who have them). Science, even it`s soft science (and you get degree because you showed ability of autonomous gaining and working with data in scientific manner), should never be done with such emotional stress or background. It`s okay to have some feelings for object of your research, I also have, yet still it`s western scientific method to divide subject and object to explain it without emotional involvement. With this attitude, your work is too easy to be opposed and dissed. I had been shadow consultant for few theses in social studies - my mom was tutor, these women never consulted and then came with 50+ pages few days before deadline... Nothing to do with that. On the other way, if you see who in real oppose those works, no worries. They got degree. This was common mistake of these works, they were done by woman with too deep emotional involving. Domestic abuse and violence with only women and/or children mentioned (like there were no other vulnerable members like elders or disabled - or men) was the topic in most of these works. The problem also was citations of same monographs which focus on the theme without any wider insight and supporting one another (I am a big picture person, did I tell you? Always questioning scientific mind of the class). It is vicious circle which is fragile from outside and makes itself more and more disconnected and isolated. It`s like theology, which is built on citations, for which you cannot get actually solid proof and prone of self-defending from decomposing by actual proofs. Soft science problem in general, to say. If you want to do actual high quality scientific work in the field, you should also look for potential mistakes in your method and results and other possible explanations and topics for further research, which may be really difficult with too strong emotional involvement. 

If it`s too emotional, art works better.

*end of science corner, now personal two cents

The thing which makes me sad is that if you look at family history of many of those women in abusive relationship, their mothers and women around them encourage them to maintain in it for various reasons, even they see them suffer. Worst case I know personally was woman who left her little daughter be sexually abused by her boyfriend not to loose him (found out years after, girl`s unusual behavior started to make sense). 

I am from similar cultural background like Lumikki and Andy (and few other people there) and I also love to travel - and, honestly, in Argentina I felt way more safe as a pale white ginger woman tourist than in like Dubai or generally in places inhabited by middle easterns, including middle easterns inhabited district in Malmö, Sweden; same with gypsy settlements here - but there are white men in danger, too. I`ve met few assholes, sleazy scumbag dumb f*cks (with all these qualities, they tend to be misogynous also with my criteria,  but they are actually bloated egos easy to put down with not much effort), but I also found out that vast majority of men tell women apart and treat them with various respect. Boys even protected me when girls bullied me in girl scout or class. Also some women around me are incredibly gentle and feminine and men do everything to protect and defend them and behave respectful, even ones known for outbursts (these women master art of getting men where they want them to be without men noticing it). We, men and women, are not equal and I can do some things only because I`m a woman.  There are certain things I can`t do, but that`s how it is, you have some extras and you miss something. With my traits, I had to figure my femininity out, which taught me to see and use it more consciously.

I don`t say any violence can`t happen to me, I just see some women are easier target than others, even when we are side by side. 

To have more complex picture, I would be interested if Axl was violent with his female friends. 

[Mary Cochrane]

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

This is all so VOMITIVE

Women fight for women's rights because who else would? Feminism is a movement all around the world. The advances made in some countries really help the rest of the countries who do not have priviledges, to start thinking about it. The fact that there are women with more rights in the UK, USA, some European countries is a great thing for us in Latinamerica or Africa, Middle East and wherever else there are still women struggling for having their rights broken or taken away.

Your right wing BS has always been looking to oppress people in general and women in particular because everything's a fucking SIN to you: sex, abortion, homosexuality, pregnancy outside marriage, anything that is not following the norm of a bunch of hypocrites who love to hate just because they don't have the balls to break rules or to be different.

I am sick of mysoginist and haters like you who only do damage to the human kind with your oppressive visions and ideas of how people how to live their fucking lives. Leave us alone!

 

Women in such countries have no rights i agree to stand up for their right sure. But thats not what feminism has become its become a man hating, evil, all about us women movement. Sex is not taboo, neither is homosexuality. Abortion? Thats murder i dont give a shit that you can do whatever you want with your body...but you choose to do that? A breathing, baby in your stomach thats developing each day you decide to kill? If you was raped i still dont believe you should have an abortion theres a thing called adoption!! Maybe try using it if you really dont want your child. Honestly. Silly things like mansplaining and manspreading which feminists hate is ridiculous. So a man having an opinion or at least explaining something is wrong? Ok. You dont hear men complain when women do it. Amd manspreading? No need to complain there-they have a cock and balls which correct me if im wrong would be very painful to sit down with your legs crossed because it squishes it together. Maybe if women has balls theyd understand. New age feminism really is fucking stupid. I see no benefit with it, just a load of women this women that! We hate men! 

[alfierose]

2 minutes ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Women in such countries have no rights i agree to stand up for their right sure. But thats not what feminism has become its become a man hating, evil, all about us women movement. Sex is not taboo, neither is homosexuality. Abortion? Thats murder i dont give a shit that you can do whatever you want with your body...but you choose to do that? A breathing, baby in your stomach thats developing each day you decide to kill? If you was raped i still dont believe you should have an abortion theres a thing called adoption!! Maybe try using it if you really dont want your child. Honestly. Silly things like mansplaining and manspreading which feminists hate is ridiculous. So a man having an opinion or at least explaining something is wrong? Ok. You dont hear men complain when women do it. Amd manspreading? No need to complain there-they have a cock and balls which correct me if im wrong would be very painful to sit down with your legs crossed because it squishes it together. Maybe if women has balls theyd understand. New age feminism really is fucking stupid. I see no benefit with it, just a load of women this women that! We hate men! 

We had agreed to move on from this. I'm going to remove any further posts from this point forward.

[killuridols]

5 minutes ago, alfierose said:

We had agreed to move on from this. I'm going to remove any further posts from this point forward.

Can I reply to Alja at least?

[alfierose]

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

Can I reply to Alja at least?

Send her a PM unless it's going to be a GNR focused answer otherwise this is just going to rumble on and on.

[Mary Cochrane]

15 minutes ago, alfierose said:

We had agreed to move on from this. I'm going to remove any further posts from this point forward.

Thats fine. I did agree to move on but people was replying to me so i felt obliged to comment. 

I respect all your opinions-we may not agree. But i respect you. Moving on...💖

Edited August 10, 2017 by Mary Cochrane
typo

[Frey]

These last couple of posts hurt my brain, they don't even make sense

Anyway, our lovely mod said to drop it so I have a question for those who have been following or attending the shows:

Axl's demon voice.

The thing he did during Better at the Apollo show.

Did he ever do that again? Does he sing Better like that at every show now or was it a one-off thing?

Because I thought that was really cool. Sounded "better" than anything I've heard from him in a long time. Really powerful and operatic?

Tbh, I wish he would sing entire songs like that.

Or record new songs with that voice.

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Frey

[killuridols]

16 minutes ago, alfierose said:

Send her a PM unless it's going to be a GNR focused answer otherwise this is just going to rumble on and on.

No, it's not GN'R related. This band is hardly related to college degrees and such but I refuse to PM her because I don't want to hide my replies to her since it would only show her side of the story.

I'm sorry @Alja, you will have to keep believing all this wrong judgemental and ignorant stuff you just posted about social science and about my essay that you didn't even read, yet you have the nerve to criticize it and give me advices like I was a noob. My school is one of the most prestigious in Latinamerica. You obviously do not apply the scientific method when you make comments like that.

And also, do not think you can tell me what's the reality of my country if you've come here as a tourist and probably spent just a few days in some nice touristic city. I am not a visitor here.

 

P.S.: Do not reply to this, since I want to respect Alfie's desire to drop the subject.

Edited August 10, 2017 by killuridols

[killuridols]

11 minutes ago, Frey said:

Or record new songs with that voice.

OMG no please

Isn't it the same voice he used to record "I Don't Care About You" on The Spaghetti Incident? or sort of....

At the Apollo show thread I commented that voice reminded me of Steven Tyler when he sings "Dream On" live... he does that voice sometimes as well but I don't think its cool to use for an entire song, just a couple lines is ok.

Anyway, Better live is a disgrace. I don't like any version of it. The album version still wins all over (IMO).